Re: fungus

[Altum]

Mellie101 wrote:
> Hello, me again :-) I've been reading a lot about treating fungus etc
> on this ng recently. It seems to a common occurance. I recently used
> Furanase in my tank. It does say on the packet that this can mess
> about with the nitrification cycle. Well it did. I have trace amounts
> of ammonia and nitrites. I'm doing 50% changes still every 2-3 days.
> So my black moor now has small fungus spots on his fins. Whenever
> there is a blimp in the cycle he gets fungus.
>
> So my dilemma. Should i treat with the peroxide and neosporin in the
> tank where he is or move him to the hospital tank that I have just set
> up. Didn't know if it was worth keeping him where he is to keep stress
> to a minimum. My other problem is that my hospital tank is at 'room
> temperature' which is about 70-71 degrees. The main tank is arounc
> 73-74 degrees. I plan on acclimatising him gradually but would it be a
> huge shock? I would buy a heater but a)hoping not to have to use the
> hospital tank very often and b) my husband really isn't happy with the
> amount of money I have spent on the fish lately. Probably around the
> region of $900 since we got started in Dec. Think the heater will push
> him over the edge especially as I bought the 10g hospital tank this
> week.
>
> So any advice greatly recieved.
> Thanks so much. So great to know that there are so many nice
> knowledgeble people here who seem not to tire of us newbies asking a
> million questions. Hope it stays that way :-)
>
> Mellie
>
If you want to move the moor to the hospital, just fill the hospital
tank with water from the main tank and put him in it. The gradual three
degree cooling will not hurt him.

Do you have a good, cycled filter for the hospital? If you don't, you
will have more ammonia there than in the main tank. If you do, go ahead
and move him because Flavobacterium infections can be contagious.

BTW, I disagree with Frank that frequent, large water changes are
stressful for sick fish. I healed a goldfish of finrot recently with a
combination of medicine and transferring him from one 13 gallon tub to
another every day for two weeks. That's a 100% daily water change.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
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[Nikki]

"Altum" > wrote in message
...
> Mellie101 wrote:
>> Hello, me again :-) I've been reading a lot about treating fungus etc
>> on this ng recently. It seems to a common occurance. I recently used
>> Furanase in my tank. It does say on the packet that this can mess
>> about with the nitrification cycle. Well it did. I have trace amounts
>> of ammonia and nitrites. I'm doing 50% changes still every 2-3 days.
>> So my black moor now has small fungus spots on his fins. Whenever
>> there is a blimp in the cycle he gets fungus.
>>
>> So my dilemma. Should i treat with the peroxide and neosporin in the
>> tank where he is or move him to the hospital tank that I have just set
>> up. Didn't know if it was worth keeping him where he is to keep stress
>> to a minimum. My other problem is that my hospital tank is at 'room
>> temperature' which is about 70-71 degrees. The main tank is arounc
>> 73-74 degrees. I plan on acclimatising him gradually but would it be a
>> huge shock? I would buy a heater but a)hoping not to have to use the
>> hospital tank very often and b) my husband really isn't happy with the
>> amount of money I have spent on the fish lately. Probably around the
>> region of $900 since we got started in Dec. Think the heater will push
>> him over the edge especially as I bought the 10g hospital tank this
>> week.
>>
>> So any advice greatly recieved.
>> Thanks so much. So great to know that there are so many nice
>> knowledgeble people here who seem not to tire of us newbies asking a
>> million questions. Hope it stays that way :-)
>>
>> Mellie
>>
> If you want to move the moor to the hospital, just fill the hospital tank
> with water from the main tank and put him in it. The gradual three degree
> cooling will not hurt him.
>
> Do you have a good, cycled filter for the hospital? If you don't, you
> will have more ammonia there than in the main tank. If you do, go ahead
> and move him because Flavobacterium infections can be contagious.
>
> BTW, I disagree with Frank that frequent, large water changes are
> stressful for sick fish. I healed a goldfish of finrot recently with a
> combination of medicine and transferring him from one 13 gallon tub to
> another every day for two weeks. That's a 100% daily water change.
>
> --
> Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com


ditto, mine got better with water changes also (guppy tank) and they had
fungus, helped them a lot.
NIkki

[Mr. Gardener]

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:13:31 GMT, Altum >
wrote:

>BTW, I disagree with Frank that frequent, large water changes are
>stressful for sick fish. I healed a goldfish of finrot recently with a
>combination of medicine and transferring him from one 13 gallon tub to
>another every day for two weeks. That's a 100% daily water change.

You demonstrated that the 100% daily water changes didn't harm your
fish, but how do you know that the medicine didn't cure the problem,
with or without the water changes?

-- Mister Gardener

[Frank]

Altum wrote,
>BTW, I disagree with Frank that frequent, large water changes are
>stressful for sick fish......

That's not quite what I said! In my first reply, *twice* I asked if the
fish had been getting that large of a water change all along. Large
water changes are great, _IF_ the fish are used to them. If a tank is
aged with small (20% or less) weekly water changes, and then a large
water change, two things happen. One - an osmotic pressure change,
which causes unrepairable damage to the fishs gills. Enough of a
change, especially lower, will kill the fish. Two - old tank syndrome =
large water change leaves fish showing immediate distrees, gasping,
lose balance, lie on side, and die. Cause - An aged tank slowly
consumes carbonate buffer - low kH - and the pH slowly drops. Toxic
ammonia becomes non - toxic ammonium and builds up. Then, with a large
water change, the buffer is suddenly restored, ammonium reconverts to
its toxic form (ammonia), and the fish die of ammonia poisoning...
Since most people only do 20% weekly water changes (or less) no matter
their bio-load, most people would kill their fish with a large water
change - I would never tell someone to do more than a 20% water change
at one time for the above reasons. I already pointed out in my first
reply, the third reason for not doing large water changes on a tank of
fish that's not used to it - Flex. disease, brought on by
stress.............. Frank

[carlrs]

I was going to respnd to
>BTW, I disagree with Frank that frequent, large water changes are
>stressful for sick fish......
But every point was hit by Frank, I will add that is why the carbonate
level and PH should be kept up and for most persons, frequent, but
smaller water changes are better.
Carl

[Mellie101]

Hi, I was doing twice weekly water changes around 25%. My Ryukin
started acting strange and was having white stools. Treated the thank
with Furanase and antibiotic food. Then started the big water changes
a) to get rid of the Furanase and b) because it disrupted the
Nitrification cycle. No other reason. The cycle is back to its 'old
self'. So will only do the 25% water changes. I can't wait till I do
them just once a week but I was doing a water test during the week and
the Nitrates were slightly raised. So the water changes were still
twice weekly. Roy, thanks for pointing out about the Furanase. I was
mixing it with a small amount of tank water but it would still be
'gritty' when i was adding it. I would stir and stir it but it never
completley disolved. I added it hoping the tank water would dilute it
more once it was in there. Unfortunatly when I came to vacuum the
gravel there was a lot of 'grit' in the bottom. Yes the health
problems have been 'on top of each other'. Hopefully I am learning
from these 'trials and errors' and by the helpful people on the NG's.
Apart from this small 'patch' on my Blackmoors fin they really are the
picture of health. I'm really happy with the tank and looking forward
to the day when it is almost running itself.

Mellie

[Altum]

Frank wrote:
> Altum wrote,
>> BTW, I disagree with Frank that frequent, large water changes are
>> stressful for sick fish......
>
> That's not quite what I said! In my first reply, *twice* I asked if the
> fish had been getting that large of a water change all along. Large
> water changes are great, _IF_ the fish are used to them. If a tank is
> aged with small (20% or less) weekly water changes, and then a large
> water change, two things happen. One - an osmotic pressure change,
> which causes unrepairable damage to the fishs gills. Enough of a
> change, especially lower, will kill the fish. Two - old tank syndrome =
> large water change leaves fish showing immediate distrees, gasping,
> lose balance, lie on side, and die. Cause - An aged tank slowly
> consumes carbonate buffer - low kH - and the pH slowly drops. Toxic
> ammonia becomes non - toxic ammonium and builds up. Then, with a large
> water change, the buffer is suddenly restored, ammonium reconverts to
> its toxic form (ammonia), and the fish die of ammonia poisoning...
> Since most people only do 20% weekly water changes (or less) no matter
> their bio-load, most people would kill their fish with a large water
> change - I would never tell someone to do more than a 20% water change
> at one time for the above reasons. I already pointed out in my first
> reply, the third reason for not doing large water changes on a tank of
> fish that's not used to it - Flex. disease, brought on by
> stress.............. Frank
>
I misunderstood. I thought OP had been doing 50% changes every few days
so there was no risk of gill damage or big pH shifts at this point.

Agreed that a 50% water change in a tank with high DOC or acidic water
can be disastrous. Better to gradually increase the size of the water
changes.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Altum]

Mr. Gardener wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:13:31 GMT, Altum >
> wrote:
>
>> BTW, I disagree with Frank that frequent, large water changes are
>> stressful for sick fish. I healed a goldfish of finrot recently with a
>> combination of medicine and transferring him from one 13 gallon tub to
>> another every day for two weeks. That's a 100% daily water change.
>
> You demonstrated that the 100% daily water changes didn't harm your
> fish, but how do you know that the medicine didn't cure the problem,
> with or without the water changes?

I hate when someone uses my favorite scientific method on me. :-p My
point was that water changes don't necessarily make a sick fish sicker.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Frank]

Nikki wrote,
>mine got better with water changes also (guppy tank) and they had
>fungus.............

If water changes are what made your guppies better, they had fin and
tail rot, not true fungus........... Frank

[Frank]

Altum wrote,
>My
>point was that water changes don't necessarily make a sick fish sicker.

I beleave water quality is the most important factor affecting fish
health. I also beleave that at least 80 to 85% of fish diseases are due
to poor water quality, and that *every* treatment should start with a
water change, but never one large enough to change TDS (total dissolved
solids) more than 25% - thus, no more than a 20% water change at one
time (for *most* people) ;-)
.................. Frank

[Nikki]

could be, had white fuzzy stuff..... patches
nikki

I also put peroxide on the fuzzes



"Frank" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Nikki wrote,
>>mine got better with water changes also (guppy tank) and they had
>>fungus.............
>
> If water changes are what made your guppies better, they had fin and
> tail rot, not true fungus........... Frank
>