I'm an idiot - what would you do?

[Jolly Fisherman]

I got excited today about a semi-mature redcap oranda. It has long
veil-like fins and looked very curious and active in the display tank.
Only now at home I see the water in the bag was nasty and yellowish.
Like a moron I say, hey I should test it for kicks- then forgot.

It gets better. Now that I have the bag opened in home lighting I see
it has blood streaks i.e. reddened veins from the base through much of
the caudal fin. Another brilliant move- didn't inspect it well enough
in the store, apparently.

After rough handling in the store and the journey home it's now
crashed on the bottom of the tank. Should I worry about possible
damage from the LFS water conditions & return him, or just nurse him &
ride it out? Using salt & keeping things quiet with not much light.

Maybe I'm just nitpicking?

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before spontaneously combusting <Jolly Fisherman> at
> was heard opining:

> I got excited today about a semi-mature redcap oranda. It has long
> veil-like fins and looked very curious and active in the display tank.
> Only now at home I see the water in the bag was nasty and yellowish.
> Like a moron I say, hey I should test it for kicks- then forgot.

As long as the fish is healthy.

> It gets better. Now that I have the bag opened in home lighting I see
> it has blood streaks i.e. reddened veins from the base through much of
> the caudal fin. Another brilliant move- didn't inspect it well enough
> in the store, apparently.

It's probably not serious but treating for parasites would be wise - in my
opinion. Others may disagree. Keep the water ultra clean until the streaks
go away.

> After rough handling in the store and the journey home it's now
> crashed on the bottom of the tank.

I hope you slowly acclimated it to your water conditions. Sometimes the
differences in water between the LFS and your tank can be enough to shock
and even kill fish. I know this from experience. :*(

Should I worry about possible
> damage from the LFS water conditions & return him, or just nurse him &
> ride it out? Using salt & keeping things quiet with not much light.

He should be guaranteed for at least 14 days. I would ride it out and see
what happens in the next few days. Some GF don't act quite "normal" if
they're the only GF in the tank.

> Maybe I'm just nitpicking?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:24:06 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>Moments before spontaneously combusting <Jolly Fisherman> at
> was heard opining:
>
>> I got excited today about a semi-mature redcap oranda. It has long
>> veil-like fins and looked very curious and active in the display tank.
>> Only now at home I see the water in the bag was nasty and yellowish.
>> Like a moron I say, hey I should test it for kicks- then forgot.
>
>As long as the fish is healthy.

Eventhough he's crashed the all fins even dorsal fin are erect, eyes
are clear, poop is normal, no yawning, breathing seems ok. So Yes?

>> It gets better. Now that I have the bag opened in home lighting I see
>> it has blood streaks i.e. reddened veins from the base through much of
>> the caudal fin. Another brilliant move- didn't inspect it well enough
>> in the store, apparently.
>
>It's probably not serious but treating for parasites would be wise - in my
>opinion. Others may disagree. Keep the water ultra clean until the streaks
>go away.

Keeping things as clean & peaceful as possible.

I'm a little worried about adding medicine when a. I couldn't get much
detail on what it's been on (I know, I know) b. he or the gills may
be a little fried already. If this is mostly stress I don't want to
make things worse if I don't know what I'm doing.

>> After rough handling in the store and the journey home it's now
>> crashed on the bottom of the tank.
>
>I hope you slowly acclimated it to your water conditions. Sometimes the
>differences in water between the LFS and your tank can be enough to shock
>and even kill fish. I know this from experience. :*(

Yes I did.

But when the guy closed the bag he did so by spinning the bag around
so the fish got caught in a massive vortex. I kinda flipped out at
him, but like a *** I bought the fish anyway. He was crashed in the
bag from during the car ride and when I got home.

>Should I worry about possible
>> damage from the LFS water conditions & return him, or just nurse him &
>> ride it out? Using salt & keeping things quiet with not much light.
>
>He should be guaranteed for at least 14 days. I would ride it out and see

"should" is the operative word. This place gives 48 hour for
freshwater and 0 days for sal****er. In retrospect I think they also
have the fishroom in low light for a reason (& it ain't ambiance) ...
not my shining moment as a consumer. Ah well.

>what happens in the next few days.

Thanks for the encouragement. I think there's promise too.

>Some GF don't act quite "normal" if
>they're the only GF in the tank.

I hope that's most of it.

[Koi-Lo]

"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:24:06 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>Moments before spontaneously combusting <Jolly Fisherman> at
> was heard opining:
>>
>>> I got excited today about a semi-mature redcap oranda. It has long
>>> veil-like fins and looked very curious and active in the display tank.
>>> Only now at home I see the water in the bag was nasty and yellowish.
>>> Like a moron I say, hey I should test it for kicks- then forgot.
>>
>>As long as the fish is healthy.
>
> Eventhough he's crashed the all fins even dorsal fin are erect, eyes
> are clear, poop is normal, no yawning, breathing seems ok. So Yes?

It sounds encouraging but he/she should be swimming around a bit after 24
hours.

> Keeping things as clean & peaceful as possible.
>
> I'm a little worried about adding medicine when a. I couldn't get much
> detail on what it's been on (I know, I know) b. he or the gills may
> be a little fried already. If this is mostly stress I don't want to
> make things worse if I don't know what I'm doing.

This is true. But if there's a parasite problem it can complicate things if
left untreated. Just wait and watch for the next few days. BTW, I use
Quick-Cure or Aquria-Sol on all new fish.

>>I hope you slowly acclimated it to your water conditions. Sometimes the
>>differences in water between the LFS and your tank can be enough to shock
>>and even kill fish. I know this from experience. :*(
>
> Yes I did.
>
> But when the guy closed the bag he did so by spinning the bag around
> so the fish got caught in a massive vortex.

The next time get a different person to bag your fish or ask him NOT to spin
the bag. I have seen this done before. The training most of these people
get is near non-existent.

I kinda flipped out at
> him, but like a *** I bought the fish anyway. He was crashed in the
> bag from during the car ride and when I got home.

>>
>>He should be guaranteed for at least 14 days. I would ride it out and see
>
> "should" is the operative word. This place gives 48 hour for
> freshwater and 0 days for sal****er. In retrospect I think they also
> have the fishroom in low light for a reason (& it ain't ambiance) ...
> not my shining moment as a consumer. Ah well.

I think you need to find another place to buy your fish and NEVER buy a
goldfish that is not actively swimming around the tank. If the tanks are
too dark to see if there are streaks in their fins AVOID the place. We all
live in a learn. Sometimes I don't take my own advice. Now Wal*Mart is
usually the last place I would buy fish but I recently bought 4 calico
Ranchu there a few days ago. I had been looking for calicos (I already have
the red and white metallic) for months. It was a new batch they just got
in and placed in their tanks. I watched he fish for a good 15 minutes
before deciding they looked healthy enough and were active enough to
purchase. All 4 are going great in the Quarantine tank. :-))) One spent
most of his time in the plants but I notice this morning he's out swimming
around with the others.

>>what happens in the next few days.
>
> Thanks for the encouragement. I think there's promise too.
>
>>Some GF don't act quite "normal" if
>>they're the only GF in the tank.
>
> I hope that's most of it.

GF like the company of other GF. They swim in loose-knit schools in my
ponds and large outdoor pools.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

lots of water, new fish need MORE water than they get in the tank.
add a bit of salt, and POLYAQUA which soothes the gills. the red veins is ammonia
and fresh water and it will go away. antibiotic food would be fine, but dont put
anything else in the water. Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:

>
>I got excited today about a semi-mature redcap oranda. It has long
>veil-like fins and looked very curious and active in the display tank.
>Only now at home I see the water in the bag was nasty and yellowish.
>Like a moron I say, hey I should test it for kicks- then forgot.
>
>It gets better. Now that I have the bag opened in home lighting I see
>it has blood streaks i.e. reddened veins from the base through much of
>the caudal fin. Another brilliant move- didn't inspect it well enough
>in the store, apparently.
>
>After rough handling in the store and the journey home it's now
>crashed on the bottom of the tank. Should I worry about possible
>damage from the LFS water conditions & return him, or just nurse him &
>ride it out? Using salt & keeping things quiet with not much light.
>
>Maybe I'm just nitpicking?



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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

[[email protected]]

you are RIGHT. you dont know with what and how long they been treating the fish so
dont treat the fish with anything except clean water and a bit of salt.
it is unlikely that your water is going to be colder than tank water at the LFS, so
there wont be a shock. going from tank to POND which can be colder IS a problem.
whatever you do, dont float a bag OPEN. and dont mix tank and bag water. it really
can rip up the gills and tox em out.
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
>I'm a little worried about adding medicine when a. I couldn't get much
>detail on what it's been on (I know, I know) b. he or the gills may
>be a little fried already. If this is mostly stress I don't want to
>make things worse if I don't know what I'm doing.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:52:19 GMT, wrote:

>you are RIGHT. you dont know with what and how long they been treating the fish so
>dont treat the fish with anything except clean water and a bit of salt.

I'm actually doing a tub to tub treatment right now

<snip>

>whatever you do, dont float a bag OPEN. and dont mix tank and bag water. it really
>can rip up the gills and tox em out.
>Ingrid

How does a typical acclimation procedure damage a GF? I thought it
would be easier on them?

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:48:55 GMT, wrote:

>lots of water, new fish need MORE water than they get in the tank.
>add a bit of salt, and POLYAQUA which soothes the gills.

I'll look into that, thanks

> the red veins is ammonia
>and fresh water and it will go away.

How does one tell the difference between ammonia burn and
bacterial/viral Hemorrhagic septicemia using visual exam? or are you
saying it is an infection secondary to water quality problem which
often resolves itself with fresh water?

> antibiotic food would be fine, but dont put
>anything else in the water. Ingrid

OK. Thanks

[Koi-Lo]

"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:52:19 GMT, wrote:
>
> How does a typical acclimation procedure damage a GF? I thought it
> would be easier on them?
============================
It is easier on them then taking them from a bag of what can be hard
alkaline water and dumping them into a tank of soft acid water or vice
versa. Some suggest dissolved solids are also involved. We use to call it
PH shock but evidently more than PH is involved. I have killed goldfish by
bringing them home, floating the bag to equalize temperature and then just
putting them in my tanks. It sometimes took as long as several days. They
would gasp as thought they were suffocating..... it's very sad to watch. I
would never do that to fish again. It may take several hours to acclimate
them and it's worth every second of the slight inconvenience.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

in a closed bag the ammonia builds up fast driving pH up, but the fish are using
oxygen putting out CO2 and that drives pH down so ammonia is less toxic. open the
bag and the CO2 is blown off, pH jumps fast and ammonia is toxic.
not to mention, when Jo Ann opens up the bags she found very very early on that
putting tank water into the bag resulted in something very foul smelling coming out
and it knocked the fish down. so it just isnt a good idea to open the bag before the
fish is going to be moved out nor mix the tank water into the bag.
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
>How does a typical acclimation procedure damage a GF? I thought it
>would be easier on them?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

[[email protected]]

ammonia burn turns gills dark, veins pop out of fine finnage, no real bacteria
instead reaction to toxic chemical.
septicemia is usually red sores popping under scales.

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
>How does one tell the difference between ammonia burn and
>bacterial/viral Hemorrhagic septicemia using visual exam? or are you
>saying it is an infection secondary to water quality problem which
>often resolves itself with fresh water?
>
>> antibiotic food would be fine, but dont put
>>anything else in the water. Ingrid
>
>OK. Thanks



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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:37:18 GMT, wrote:

>ammonia burn turns gills dark, veins pop out of fine finnage, no real bacteria
>instead reaction to toxic chemical.
>septicemia is usually red sores popping under scales.

Thanks. I guess you're right. With the red popping veins are
hemorrhages in the fins. There is a somewhat of a uniform pinkish
hue under/in between the scales which seems to improving in the last
40 hrs or so it's been here- Although during that time still remains
crashed on the bottom & won't eat.

Returning him would be a death sentence, although I don't feel like a
good consumer. I guess this is worth riding out? Is he a goner?
Maybe it sounds horrible that I'm even asking this- but I'd much
rather rehab animals from shelters than support bad stores.

[[email protected]]

every day the fish lives is a day closer to health. it may stunt him a bit. Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:

>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:37:18 GMT, wrote:
>
>>ammonia burn turns gills dark, veins pop out of fine finnage, no real bacteria
>>instead reaction to toxic chemical.
>>septicemia is usually red sores popping under scales.
>
>Thanks. I guess you're right. With the red popping veins are
>hemorrhages in the fins. There is a somewhat of a uniform pinkish
>hue under/in between the scales which seems to improving in the last
>40 hrs or so it's been here- Although during that time still remains
>crashed on the bottom & won't eat.
>
>Returning him would be a death sentence, although I don't feel like a
>good consumer. I guess this is worth riding out? Is he a goner?
>Maybe it sounds horrible that I'm even asking this- but I'd much
>rather rehab animals from shelters than support bad stores.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

[[email protected]]

you are correct. time in the bag and how much water to size of fish AND temp of the
water in general. next time move the fish out and check the bag water for ammonia.
it is amazing how fast the water gets fouled.
dont put tank water into the bag. and dont put the bag water into the tub either.
often the bag water can be full of cooties. just pick the fish up by hand and move
em. it isnt difficult.
acclimation isnt necessary if the temp is going up. if going into a pond, then you
are going to quarantine anyway for a month and might as well run warm water into that
big tub and let the temp drop slowly, no more than 4o per day.
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
I would think the extent to
>which this is an issue depends on how long it takes you to get the
>fish home. Probably also the relative size of the fish to volume of
>water in the bag & if the fish has evacuated yet.
>But if the fish is going from the LFS bag to a quarantine tub with
>fresh tap water wouldn't the tub water dilute what's in the bag,
>rather than react with it (making a foul smell)? Isn't it still a
>shock to dump the fish straight into water of very different
>characteristics? What about putting a few drips of Ammolock II or
>Amquel into the newly opened bag so the fish isn't toxed out by the
>ammonia during the acclimation process?
>
>Don't mean to be a PITA just want to get my acclimation procedure
>right.



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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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[Koi-Lo]

"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:34:13 GMT, wrote:
>
>>in a closed bag the ammonia builds up fast driving pH up, but the fish are
>>using
>>oxygen putting out CO2 and that drives pH down so ammonia is less toxic.
>>open the
>>bag and the CO2 is blown off, pH jumps fast and ammonia is toxic.
>
> Thanks that makes sense. I was looking around yesterday for the
> answer but that brings it all together. I would think the extent to
> which this is an issue depends on how long it takes you to get the
> fish home.

BINGO!!!!!! Joann imported her fish so you can be sure they spent many
hours in those shipping bags. Also, when you open the bag and put your new
fish in the small tank or bowl to acclimate him/her you are immediately
pouring most of the FS water off and adding about 20% new water from your
tank. Then in 20 mins or so more water from your tank etc. The bubbler if
you have one, is aerating and mixing the water as the fish are acclimating.

>>not to mention, when Jo Ann opens up the bags she found very very early on
>>that
>>putting tank water into the bag resulted in something very foul smelling
>>coming out
>>and it knocked the fish down. so it just isnt a good idea to open the bag
>>before the
>>fish is going to be moved out nor mix the tank water into the bag.
>>Ingrid

> But if the fish is going from the LFS bag to a quarantine tub with
> fresh tap water wouldn't the tub water dilute what's in the bag,

YES! Most people pour most of the bag-water out only keeping enough to
cover the fishes backs comfortably. Immediately add about 20% (give or
take) of your own tank water to the tub/bowl/whatever. I use a gallon
plastic potato salad keeper these days. ;-) It goes in the dishwasher
after use.

> rather than react with it (making a foul smell)? Isn't it still a
> shock to dump the fish straight into water of very different
> characteristics?

Maybe the water the fish were shipped in matched Joanns water.

What about putting a few drips of Ammolock II or
> Amquel into the newly opened bag so the fish isn't toxed out by the
> ammonia during the acclimation process?

I've never had that happen.

> Don't mean to be a PITA just want to get my acclimation procedure
> right.

Your fish wont be in bags for hours and hours......
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:13:01 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Thanks. I guess you're right. With the red popping veins are
>> hemorrhages in the fins. There is a somewhat of a uniform pinkish
>> hue under/in between the scales which seems to improving in the last
>> 40 hrs or so it's been here- Although during that time still remains
>> crashed on the bottom & won't eat.
>
>This is NOT a good sign.

Shortly after posting here I tried feeding again. He ate a small
amount this afternoon & evening. He'll swim around for food & strike
at it pretty vigorously. The body is now slightly off the bottom
surface but not much else is happening. Still a cute litter bugger,
though.

>> Returning him would be a death sentence, although I don't feel like a
>> good consumer. I guess this is worth riding out? Is he a goner?
>> Maybe it sounds horrible that I'm even asking this- but I'd much
>> rather rehab animals from shelters than support bad stores.
>
>If they will take this fish back before it dies I would return it.

Unfortunately the 48 hours has now lapsed. They only offer store fish
credit & I don't want to deal with them again anyway. Thank goodness
it wasn't a very expensive fish. I should have listened to my more
practical side and paid more attention to my assessment of prior
visits months ago. They have good suppliers but apparently still run
the tanks poorly.

[[email protected]]

be very careful and feed only tiny amounts of food at a time. Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
>Shortly after posting here I tried feeding again. He ate a small
>amount this afternoon & evening. He'll swim around for food & strike
>at it pretty vigorously. The body is now slightly off the bottom
>surface but not much else is happening. Still a cute litter bugger,
>though.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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[Jolly Fisherman]

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:38:57 GMT, wrote:

>be very careful and feed only tiny amounts of food at a time. Ingrid

I'm trying to. He seemed to perk up quite a bit late last night. This
morning he is going back and forth between swimming a little &
crashing. Still a very weak swimmer.

It's odd that his behavior looked good in the tank, although I
couldn't make out the blood stains. He got really messed up in the
bagging & transport. I might have made things worse with the
acclimation but he was already crashed at that point. Too bad I was
thinking I was farther along on the learning curve than I am.

Thanks again fro the help & encouragement Ingrid & Koi-Lo

[Jolly Fisherman]

Just checked up on him again. I transferred him to a cycled, healthy
quarantine tank a couple hours ago, when I posted. He's now acting
like an almost normal GF almost constantly. He seems happier with the
extra stimulation out of the opaque tubs. Still planning on big water
changes a few times a day just to be safe. (don't care if it's
overkill.)

I feel silly posting here like this fish is the most important thing
on Usenet. But thought you guys might like to know how your advice is
turning out.

[[email protected]]

he really got messed up in the bag it sounds like. did they use a squirt of "bag
buddy" while bagging up the fish?
Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
>It's odd that his behavior looked good in the tank, although I
>couldn't make out the blood stains. He got really messed up in the
>bagging & transport. I might have made things worse with the
>acclimation but he was already crashed at that point. Too bad I was
>thinking I was farther along on the learning curve than I am.
>
>Thanks again fro the help & encouragement Ingrid & Koi-Lo



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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Koi-Lo]

"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
> Just checked up on him again. I transferred him to a cycled, healthy
> quarantine tank a couple hours ago, when I posted. He's now acting
> like an almost normal GF almost constantly. He seems happier with the
> extra stimulation out of the opaque tubs. Still planning on big water
> changes a few times a day just to be safe. (don't care if it's
> overkill.)
>
> I feel silly posting here like this fish is the most important thing
> on Usenet. But thought you guys might like to know how your advice is
> turning out.
========================
Don't feel silly. You're among fish addicts here who are indeed interested
in what's happening with your fish. I'm glad to hear he has perked up.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:35:14 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>> I feel silly posting here like this fish is the most important thing
>> on Usenet. But thought you guys might like to know how your advice is
>> turning out.
>========================
>Don't feel silly. You're among fish addicts here who are indeed interested
>in what's happening with your fish. I'm glad to hear he has perked up.

Thanks. It's been a pretty amazing turn around in this quarantine
tank today & getting out of those opaque tubs. Although the treatment
seemed worthwhile. I know it's worked great with other GF. Pretty
normal looking for most of today, actually (knock wood). I've seen
enough death these days. Looking forward to seeing things that live &
thrive right now. What comes later, comes...

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:31:22 GMT, wrote:

>he really got messed up in the bag it sounds like. did they use a squirt of "bag
>buddy" while bagging up the fish?
>Ingrid

No. He just dumped it in a bag in it's tank water. Just like all the
other fish & shrimp I've purchased in other places without problems.

I did some looking and bag buddy sounds great. Any suggestions where
I can order online to have on hand?

[[email protected]]

no, not good stuff. it is an anesthetic with residual effects and an overdose really
knocks the fish down. is NOT good to use. Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
>I did some looking and bag buddy sounds great. Any suggestions where
>I can order online to have on hand?



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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 14:19:47 GMT, wrote:

>no, not good stuff. it is an anesthetic with residual effects and an overdose really
>knocks the fish down. is NOT good to use. Ingrid

Oh I misunderstood you. What I was reading said it was a tablet that
added electrolytes & O2 & a mild sedative- which seemed beneficial. I
guess in retrospect only O2 is really somewhat desirable. It's more
important to get home fast & be gentle.

I did see something faint on the tail in the display tank, but didn't
recognize it as a problem in the tank way over my head. Also couldn't
see any problem in the dark fish room when out of the tank. After
more than a dozen successful fish purchases, all still flourishing, I
got cocky, overeager, & less thorough. Lesson learned. Hopefully
future fish will thank this guy, and this group, for teaching me how
to observe & rehab GF.

[[email protected]]

that has always been my problem. the room is too dark. Ingrid

Jolly Fisherman > wrote:
Also couldn't>see any problem in the dark fish room when out of the tank.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
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sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[ReelMcKoi]

http://tinyurl.com/99azt
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Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
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Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>



Koi-Lo wrote:
> Moments before spontaneously combusting <Jolly Fisherman> at
> > was heard opining:
>
> > I got excited today about a semi-mature redcap oranda. It has long
> > veil-like fins and looked very curious and active in the display tank.
> > Only now at home I see the water in the bag was nasty and yellowish.
> > Like a moron I say, hey I should test it for kicks- then forgot.
>
> As long as the fish is healthy.
>
> > It gets better. Now that I have the bag opened in home lighting I see
> > it has blood streaks i.e. reddened veins from the base through much of
> > the caudal fin. Another brilliant move- didn't inspect it well enough
> > in the store, apparently.
>
> It's probably not serious but treating for parasites would be wise - in my
> opinion. Others may disagree. Keep the water ultra clean until the streaks
> go away.
>
> > After rough handling in the store and the journey home it's now
> > crashed on the bottom of the tank.
>
> I hope you slowly acclimated it to your water conditions. Sometimes the
> differences in water between the LFS and your tank can be enough to shock
> and even kill fish. I know this from experience. :*(
>
> Should I worry about possible
> > damage from the LFS water conditions & return him, or just nurse him &
> > ride it out? Using salt & keeping things quiet with not much light.
>
> He should be guaranteed for at least 14 days. I would ride it out and see
> what happens in the next few days. Some GF don't act quite "normal" if
> they're the only GF in the tank.
>
> > Maybe I'm just nitpicking?
> --
> Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
> Aquariums since 1952
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>