Southdown tropical play sand

[emorbius]

Hello;

A few years ago I bought 400 lbs of a tropical playsand called southdown
at home depot for about $4 for a 50 pound bag. This worked great for my reef
tank because it was argonite based. I wanted to get some more but heard they
are out of business. Is there any other sand being used these days that is
similiar?

thanks

Bob

[Pszemol]

"emorbius" > wrote in message ...
> A few years ago I bought 400 lbs of a tropical playsand called southdown
> at home depot for about $4 for a 50 pound bag. This worked great for my reef
> tank because it was argonite based. I wanted to get some more but heard they
> are out of business.

Yes, I tried to get couple of bags recently and they are nowhere to be found.

> Is there any other sand being used these days that is similiar?

I do not know of any calcium-based sand, but acording to DSB promotor
dr Ron Shimek, any fine sand will do well to be DSB sand, silica sand included.
Sand particles in a reef tank are quickly covered with bacteria film and
they stop acting as a calcium buffer in a pure chemical way pretty soon.
After a while it does not matter what the sand is made of because this
bacteria film is kind of insulating water from chemically reacting with sand.

[NoSpam]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "emorbius" > wrote in message
> ...
>> A few years ago I bought 400 lbs of a tropical playsand called
>> southdown at home depot for about $4 for a 50 pound bag. This worked
>> great for my reef tank because it was argonite based. I wanted to get
>> some more but heard they are out of business.
>
> Yes, I tried to get couple of bags recently and they are nowhere to be
> found.
>
>> Is there any other sand being used these days that is similiar?
>
> I do not know of any calcium-based sand, but acording to DSB promotor
> dr Ron Shimek, any fine sand will do well to be DSB sand, silica sand
> included.
> Sand particles in a reef tank are quickly covered with bacteria film and
> they stop acting as a calcium buffer in a pure chemical way pretty soon.
> After a while it does not matter what the sand is made of because this
> bacteria film is kind of insulating water from chemically reacting with
> sand.


I have about 400lbs of this left for future tank growth use. I bought 12
bags when I finally found some last year(bought all they had). It was also
labeled under the name "Yardright" and was distributed by the same company.
Good luck finding any as there are a bunch of people trying on "Reefcentral"
board with no luck.
Hope you can fair better and your chances are higher on the north east coast
of finding any.

Cant help you out on a good substitute but with the knowledge here on the NG
I`m sure someone has a good safe sand to use.

[TheRock]

I dumped in about 6 bags of Silica sand...children's playsand from Lowes.
No problems...Topped it off with some agronite sand after a while...








"emorbius" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hello;
>
> A few years ago I bought 400 lbs of a tropical playsand called
> southdown
> at home depot for about $4 for a 50 pound bag. This worked great for my
> reef
> tank because it was argonite based. I wanted to get some more but heard
> they
> are out of business. Is there any other sand being used these days that is
> similiar?
>
> thanks
>
> Bob
>

[Wayne Sallee]

Has this idea been tested in low oxygen areas deep in the
sand?

Also what about things that eat the sand, like sea cucumbers.

Calcium sand is sure not going to keep the calcium levels
up for a reef tank, but did he look at all aspects of what
happens to the sand?

Yes, someone can have a successful reef tank with a silica
sand bottom, but I'm not convinced that the calcium sand
isn't better.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 3/22/2006 10:44 AM:
> "emorbius" > wrote in message
> ...
>> A few years ago I bought 400 lbs of a tropical playsand called
>> southdown at home depot for about $4 for a 50 pound bag. This worked
>> great for my reef tank because it was argonite based. I wanted to get
>> some more but heard they are out of business.
>
> Yes, I tried to get couple of bags recently and they are nowhere to be
> found.
>
>> Is there any other sand being used these days that is similiar?
>
> I do not know of any calcium-based sand, but acording to DSB promotor
> dr Ron Shimek, any fine sand will do well to be DSB sand, silica sand
> included.
> Sand particles in a reef tank are quickly covered with bacteria film and
> they stop acting as a calcium buffer in a pure chemical way pretty soon.
> After a while it does not matter what the sand is made of because this
> bacteria film is kind of insulating water from chemically reacting with
> sand.

[RicSeyler]

Wayne Sallee wrote:

> Has this idea been tested in low oxygen areas deep in the sand?
>
> Also what about things that eat the sand, like sea cucumbers.

What we have here is (Pensacola Beach) Silica Based Sand and all our
wild critters seem happy..
Pure White, I mean pure white!! It even squeaks when you walk on it. :-)


--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove -SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

[AverageSchmuck]

Those of you that have silica type sand. Would you happen to be using
in a Deep Sand Bed environment of 3 inches or greater by chance?

I ask cause I am curious if it seems to be working out for you really
well or not. I am looking into building a Deep Sand bed type sump for
my own. Read here and their and all sources I have found all recommend
argonite type bed but none seem to mention any sort of pro/cons to
say silica or just any other material period.

[Wayne Sallee]

So that's what you are doing in your tank when nobody's
home :-)

Yea I'm not saying that one can't have a sucsefull reef
tank with silica sand. That would not be true. But what I
am saying, is that I don't think that the idea that "the
calcium sand provides no benefit over the silica sand" is
correct.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



RicSeyler wrote on 3/23/2006 3:51 PM:
>
>
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>
>> Has this idea been tested in low oxygen areas deep in the sand?
>>
>> Also what about things that eat the sand, like sea cucumbers.
>
> What we have here is (Pensacola Beach) Silica Based Sand and all our
> wild critters seem happy..
> Pure White, I mean pure white!! It even squeaks when you walk on it. :-)
>
>

[Wayne Sallee]

If you through a penny in your reef tank, bacteria will
grow over it. So does that bacteria prevent the copper
from dissolving into the water?

Answer: no

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Wayne Sallee wrote on 3/23/2006 5:04 PM:
> So that's what you are doing in your tank when nobody's home :-)
>
> Yea I'm not saying that one can't have a sucsefull reef tank with silica
> sand. That would not be true. But what I am saying, is that I don't
> think that the idea that "the calcium sand provides no benefit over the
> silica sand" is correct.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
>
> RicSeyler wrote on 3/23/2006 3:51 PM:
>>
>>
>> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>>
>>> Has this idea been tested in low oxygen areas deep in the sand?
>>>
>>> Also what about things that eat the sand, like sea cucumbers.
>>
>> What we have here is (Pensacola Beach) Silica Based Sand and all our
>> wild critters seem happy..
>> Pure White, I mean pure white!! It even squeaks when you walk on it. :-)
>>
>>

[RicSeyler]

The depth is for an oxygen free area to develop.
It wouldn't mater is you were using Cal or Silica.

My SPS reefs I always used CaribSea FigiPink...
I had a couple "stepchild" tanks with various stuff in them
and never had a particular problem I could point to the Silica
sand I scooped out of my backyard.

AverageSchmuck wrote:

>Those of you that have silica type sand. Would you happen to be using
>in a Deep Sand Bed environment of 3 inches or greater by chance?
>
>I ask cause I am curious if it seems to be working out for you really
>well or not. I am looking into building a Deep Sand bed type sump for
>my own. Read here and their and all sources I have found all recommend
>argonite type bed but none seem to mention any sort of pro/cons to
>say silica or just any other material period.
>
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

[Pszemol]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message ...
> If you through a penny in your reef tank, bacteria will
> grow over it. So does that bacteria prevent the copper
> from dissolving into the water?
>
> Answer: no

Bacteria will not grow over penny, because copper is toxic.

[Roy]

The sand from P'cola to Panama City, FL is the whitest sands found
anywhere the world.......Its just like pure grains of sugar so fine
and so brite they just beg to be used in aquariums.......In the right
places you may get a mix of some coral & shell frags etc mixed with
the sands.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:51:34 -0600, RicSeyler >
wrote:
>><>
>><>
>><>Wayne Sallee wrote:
>><>
>><>> Has this idea been tested in low oxygen areas deep in the sand?
>><>>
>><>> Also what about things that eat the sand, like sea cucumbers.
>><>
>><>What we have here is (Pensacola Beach) Silica Based Sand and all our
>><>wild critters seem happy..
>><>Pure White, I mean pure white!! It even squeaks when you walk on it. :-)

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[AverageSchmuck]

The silica sand does bring a worry to me though. the methods as which
it is farmed places etc. Like kids play sand is meant for a sand box
so the company placing it on the shelf is only gonna look after the
toxicity levels of human children and featherd furry wildlife that
happens into it. Silica sand is found in many areas some of which may
have various levels of metal within the sand itself. Am I worring to
much?

[Pszemol]

"AverageSchmuck" > wrote in message ...
> The silica sand does bring a worry to me though. the methods as which
> it is farmed places etc. Like kids play sand is meant for a sand box
> so the company placing it on the shelf is only gonna look after the
> toxicity levels of human children and featherd furry wildlife that
> happens into it. Silica sand is found in many areas some of which may
> have various levels of metal within the sand itself. Am I worring to
> much?

The southdown sand everybody is using is meant to be used in sandbox too.

[AverageSchmuck]

sorry Pszemol but the Southdown was explained as argonite based while
I was asking in reference to silica based


On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:11:20 -0600, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

>"AverageSchmuck" > wrote in message ...
>> The silica sand does bring a worry to me though. the methods as which
>> it is farmed places etc. Like kids play sand is meant for a sand box
>> so the company placing it on the shelf is only gonna look after the
>> toxicity levels of human children and featherd furry wildlife that
>> happens into it. Silica sand is found in many areas some of which may
>> have various levels of metal within the sand itself. Am I worring to
>> much?
>
>The southdown sand everybody is using is meant to be used in sandbox too.

[Wayne Sallee]

So you think that nothing will grow over a penny because
the copper is toxic?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Pszemol wrote on 3/23/2006 7:15 PM:
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If you through a penny in your reef tank, bacteria will grow over it.
>> So does that bacteria prevent the copper from dissolving into the water?
>>
>> Answer: no
>
> Bacteria will not grow over penny, because copper is toxic.

[Pszemol]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message ...
> So you think that nothing will grow over a penny because
> the copper is toxic?

I would think it will be difficult for anything live
to grow over a penny... It could "rust", in the meaning
to corrode, and cover itself in some copper chemicals,
but I would guess copper is so toxic that on the surface
of a penny nothing alive would grow...
But you are more than welcome to try and share your
experience with us :)

[Pszemol]

"AverageSchmuck" > wrote in message ...
> sorry Pszemol but the Southdown was explained as argonite based while
> I was asking in reference to silica based

Well, you were worried that silica sand is bagged for usage in sand boxes...
So the manufacturer would not care about anything not related to humans.
I am telling you that the same applies to Southdown sand. Yes, it is not
silica based, but it is packaged to be used in sandboxes for children to play.
Do you see the analogy ?
If you are not worried about Southdown, you should not be worried about
silica based sand... Or worry equally about both types of sand, whatever :-)

[AverageSchmuck]

well I was focusing on the silica cause honestly I was interested in
the pro/cons between the types however I seem to be missed in
translation somewhere.. and I was asking more about silica based
because well it is what is easiest to find at places like Home Depot
etc. and the person that started thread already said they cant find
southbound and someone replied that many are looking for it etc..

Aw well I guess I was missed in translation somewhere thanks anyway
but you really helped none Psz

[kim gross]

AverageSchmuck wrote:
> Those of you that have silica type sand. Would you happen to be using
> in a Deep Sand Bed environment of 3 inches or greater by chance?
>
> I ask cause I am curious if it seems to be working out for you really
> well or not. I am looking into building a Deep Sand bed type sump for
> my own. Read here and their and all sources I have found all recommend
> argonite type bed but none seem to mention any sort of pro/cons to
> say silica or just any other material period.
>
>
I have used silica sand for a DSB aprox 5 inches without any problems,
other than having to be careful when using my cleaning magnet, the
silica is as hard as the glass and so it can scratch the glass a lot
easier than the aragonite sand will. The critters will not know the
difference, I have sand sifting cuc's and lots of little critters in the
silica sand without any problems. I purchased some silica sand
ballasting sand, I got a ver fine grit for around 10 buxs a 50 pound bag.

Kim

[Pszemol]

"AverageSchmuck" > wrote in message ...
> Aw well I guess I was missed in translation somewhere thanks
> anyway but you really helped none Psz

Really? :-) You should be less worried using silica sand by now...
You should not worry at least about silica sand being dedicated for sandboxes :-)))

About missing in translation - so I misunderstood your worry
about silica sand being packed for sandbox? This is not what
you were saying ? Not what you were worried about ? :-)))

Mr. Schmuck, you are very funny guy... :-)))

[AverageSchmuck]

WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM? Its no big deal I wasnt able to convey what I was
trying to say now your trying to offend me . Brother your suffering
from "silicone courage" here.. Serious I beleive I said a min ago . I
was lost in translation so what ..drop it already and lose the asshole
routine.



On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:55:12 -0600, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

>"AverageSchmuck" > wrote in message ...
>> Aw well I guess I was missed in translation somewhere thanks
>> anyway but you really helped none Psz
>
>Really? :-) You should be less worried using silica sand by now...
>You should not worry at least about silica sand being dedicated for sandboxes :-)))
>
>About missing in translation - so I misunderstood your worry
>about silica sand being packed for sandbox? This is not what
>you were saying ? Not what you were worried about ? :-)))
>
>Mr. Schmuck, you are very funny guy... :-)))

[AverageSchmuck]

Thanks Kim I wasnt even thinking about the grain hardness. I think I
just worry too much

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:25:26 -0700, kim gross
> wrote:

>AverageSchmuck wrote:
>> Those of you that have silica type sand. Would you happen to be using
>> in a Deep Sand Bed environment of 3 inches or greater by chance?
>>
>> I ask cause I am curious if it seems to be working out for you really
>> well or not. I am looking into building a Deep Sand bed type sump for
>> my own. Read here and their and all sources I have found all recommend
>> argonite type bed but none seem to mention any sort of pro/cons to
>> say silica or just any other material period.
>>
>>
>I have used silica sand for a DSB aprox 5 inches without any problems,
>other than having to be careful when using my cleaning magnet, the
>silica is as hard as the glass and so it can scratch the glass a lot
>easier than the aragonite sand will. The critters will not know the
>difference, I have sand sifting cuc's and lots of little critters in the
>silica sand without any problems. I purchased some silica sand
>ballasting sand, I got a ver fine grit for around 10 buxs a 50 pound bag.
>
>Kim

[RicSeyler]

Welcome to reef keeping! LOLOL

Like that thread where I stated I get
no where the near the benefit out of reefing
-vs- the time, trouble, worry, anguish and money put into them.

But wouldn't change it for anything!! LOLOL
We humans are a CrAzY lot.... :-)

AverageSchmuck wrote:

> I think I
>just worry too much
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

[AverageSchmuck]

hehe agreed but the learning curve never seems to end which to me
seems to be a nice benefit cause most things I get bored after a bit
and put it down.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:20:10 -0600, RicSeyler >
wrote:

>Welcome to reef keeping! LOLOL
>
>Like that thread where I stated I get
>no where the near the benefit out of reefing
>-vs- the time, trouble, worry, anguish and money put into them.
>
>But wouldn't change it for anything!! LOLOL
>We humans are a CrAzY lot.... :-)
>
>AverageSchmuck wrote:
>
>> I think I
>>just worry too much
>>
>>
>>

[RicSeyler]

If you can find WHITE silica sand in HD, it would be
"cleaner" than the ugly ole sand sand...... Simply from
being white and "contaminates" and trash would be more visible...

But any sand from HD or not "reef tank" sand you need to
sift through to get trash out of it. BUT you don't have to be
too concerned about purity, these reef tanks are actually
very resilient.

AverageSchmuck wrote:

>well I was focusing on the silica cause honestly I was interested in
>the pro/cons between the types however I seem to be missed in
>translation somewhere.. and I was asking more about silica based
>because well it is what is easiest to find at places like Home Depot
>etc. and the person that started thread already said they cant find
>southbound and someone replied that many are looking for it etc..
>
>Aw well I guess I was missed in translation somewhere thanks anyway
>but you really helped none Psz
>
>

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

[Pszemol]

"AverageSchmuck" > wrote in message ...
> WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM? Its no big deal I wasnt able to convey what I was
> trying to say now your trying to offend me . Brother your suffering
> from "silicone courage" here.. Serious I beleive I said a min ago . I
> was lost in translation so what ..drop it already and lose the asshole
> routine.

:-)))))
Take it easy, Schmuck... :-))))))))))

[AverageSchmuck]

I am so jealous.. ENVY OMG ENVY.. place like that has to be a chunk
of cash

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:31:56 -0600, RicSeyler >
wrote:

>My backyard before Ivan smashed my house..
>(bite me net nannies, 17k :-) LOL
>
>
>
>Roy wrote:
>
>>The sand from P'cola to Panama City, FL is the whitest sands found
>>anywhere the world.......Its just like pure grains of sugar so fine
>>and so brite they just beg to be used in aquariums.......In the right
>>places you may get a mix of some coral & shell frags etc mixed with
>>the sands.
>>
>>
>>

[RicSeyler]

Before Ivan, not too bad. But after...... I won't be able to afford to
rebuild
there. Gonna have to go into Gulf Breeze, not an island but at least a
peninsula.
:-)
Building materials have skyrocketed, and not to mention contractors can now
pick and choose what they want to do and for how much.... The cheapest I
have
found is $375 per sq/ft. Then a 2 year to 3 year wait before
construction can begin...

Then you have to get each piling recertified or replaced if not at the
new regulated
height..... that's around $20,000 in itself.

They have basically run off all us surfers/beachbums. There will be
nobody out
there in a couple years but the elite rich... Condos and concrete....

A very few of my friends made it through with enough money to repair or
rebuild...
And many haven't even gotten settlements yet.... and don't mention the
ones with
Condos..... many of my friends still can't occupy or even repair their
condos yet, but
still have to make the mortgage (because of legal battles with Insurance
companies)
and get this..... still required to pay condo dues also!!

AverageSchmuck wrote:

>I am so jealous.. ENVY OMG ENVY.. place like that has to be a chunk
>of cash
>
>On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:31:56 -0600, RicSeyler >
>wrote:
>
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

[Roy]

I would be more concerned with conditions my food is made in, in
fast food restaurants and who is prepareing it, more than how sand is
quarried/ mined or processed that may be used in a sand box. and if
its safe for being in a fish tank or for kids to play in..Give it a
good rinse and its good to go.......I bet we all would be in shock at
how sand for the pet trade is bagged and processed, yet aloone how
food is made, and a whole host of other things.


On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:01:39 GMT, AverageSchmuck >
wrote:
>><>The silica sand does bring a worry to me though. the methods as which
>><>it is farmed places etc. Like kids play sand is meant for a sand box
>><>so the company placing it on the shelf is only gonna look after the
>><>toxicity levels of human children and featherd furry wildlife that
>><>happens into it. Silica sand is found in many areas some of which may
>><>have various levels of metal within the sand itself. Am I worring to
>><>much?

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[AverageSchmuck]

well as an electrician in the past I wouldnt be surprised at all about
the way food is processed and handled in any resturaunt.. Some I have
worked in the past I will never eat their EVER. But good point it is
sand.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:09:57 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

>I would be more concerned with conditions my food is made in, in
>fast food restaurants and who is prepareing it, more than how sand is
>quarried/ mined or processed that may be used in a sand box. and if
>its safe for being in a fish tank or for kids to play in..Give it a
>good rinse and its good to go.......I bet we all would be in shock at
>how sand for the pet trade is bagged and processed, yet aloone how
>food is made, and a whole host of other things.
>
>
>On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:01:39 GMT, AverageSchmuck >
>wrote:
>>><>The silica sand does bring a worry to me though. the methods as which
>>><>it is farmed places etc. Like kids play sand is meant for a sand box
>>><>so the company placing it on the shelf is only gonna look after the
>>><>toxicity levels of human children and featherd furry wildlife that
>>><>happens into it. Silica sand is found in many areas some of which may
>>><>have various levels of metal within the sand itself. Am I worring to
>>><>much?

AverageSchmuck > wrote:
>well I was focusing on the silica cause honestly I was interested in
>the pro/cons between the types however I seem to be missed in
>translation somewhere.. and I was asking more about silica based
>because well it is what is easiest to find at places like Home Depot
>etc. and the person that started thread already said they cant find
>southbound and someone replied that many are looking for it etc..
>
>Aw well I guess I was missed in translation somewhere thanks anyway
>but you really helped none Psz


That was me:)

I have a 210 gallon reef that has about 400 lbs of southdown and has been
doing great for about 3 years (started as a 125 gallon and upgraded about a
year ago). I want to get my old 125 gallon back into operation for a fish only
type tank and that's when I found out southdown seems to have kicked the
bucket. Been looking around but seems to be only silica based sands. So it
looks like silica or pay through the nose at my LFS. I'm leaning towards
silica. Actually the whole thing has come about because I'm taking yet another
stab at trying a powder blue tang and even though so far so good I'm paranoid
about adding him to my reef tank (naso, purple, sailfin, hippo, clown tangs,
foxface, 4 various gobies. The naso, hippo, foxface are in the 8 inch range and
couple have had for six years now) because I'm afraid he'll get some kind of
disease or parasite like they always seem to do and zap a tank that has been
free of problems for a long time now.

Bob

and a big THANKS to all the feedback I've been getting from everyone!!!!!!!