Frogs

[~ janj]

Last Friday I took off the lily pond winter cover, by Saturday I had one
croaker. 5 nights later I had an orchestra. I went out Sunday and delivered
my, "If the frogs annoy you, please e-mail me before contacting the city
attorney" note to all the surrounding neighbors. Currently the frogs
haven't hit full volume, and it's cool enough still that most keep their
windows shut in the evenings.

I'm hoping that letting people know that the volume control is as close as
their own computer will make them more tolerant. ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

[Gill Passman]

~ janj wrote:
> Last Friday I took off the lily pond winter cover, by Saturday I had one
> croaker. 5 nights later I had an orchestra. I went out Sunday and delivered
> my, "If the frogs annoy you, please e-mail me before contacting the city
> attorney" note to all the surrounding neighbors. Currently the frogs
> haven't hit full volume, and it's cool enough still that most keep their
> windows shut in the evenings.
>
> I'm hoping that letting people know that the volume control is as close as
> their own computer will make them more tolerant. ~ jan
>
>
> ~ jan/WA
> Zone 7a

Hi Jan,

I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....

Gill

[AngieNews2]

Me too :)
Croaking frogs would be music to my ears up here!
I'm just hoping our green frog "Ralphie" has survived the winter in our
pond.
Consider yourself lucky :))
Pretty sad state if people are annoyed by such a minor "natural" music!
Wow.
Angie

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>~ janj wrote:
>> Last Friday I took off the lily pond winter cover, by Saturday I had one
>> croaker. 5 nights later I had an orchestra. I went out Sunday and
>> delivered
>> my, "If the frogs annoy you, please e-mail me before contacting the city
>> attorney" note to all the surrounding neighbors. Currently the frogs
>> haven't hit full volume, and it's cool enough still that most keep their
>> windows shut in the evenings. I'm hoping that letting people know that
>> the volume control is as close as
>> their own computer will make them more tolerant. ~ jan
>>
>>
>> ~ jan/WA Zone 7a
>
> Hi Jan,
>
> I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
> noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?
>
> Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
>
> Gill

[Derek Broughton]

AngieNews2 wrote:

> Me too :)
> Croaking frogs would be music to my ears up here!
> I'm just hoping our green frog "Ralphie" has survived the winter in our
> pond.
> Consider yourself lucky :))
> Pretty sad state if people are annoyed by such a minor "natural" music!
> Wow.

You have to realize, Jan's not talking about "croaking" frogs. She's got
Pacific Tree Frogs. You have a little grey Tree Frog that is probably
similar, but I only ever saw one, and I certainly never had more than a
couple at a time (outside St. Thomas).

Have you ever heard an American Toad trilling? It goes for maybe 5 seconds.
Now, raise that pitch an octave, and maintain it for 30-60 seconds at a
time. It's loud, and potentially annoying. If you get half a dozen of
them outside your window it could drive you crazy. However, Jan's
neighbors are apparently already crazy :-)
--
derek

[~ janj]

>Hi Jan,
>I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
>noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?

This is actually in the city code, having a habitat that harbors nuisance
creatures (or some wording like that). This was probably put in there when
people had junk piles that skunks moved into originally.

>Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
>Gill

I go out and catch a few males and the volume goes down. These males are
then given to other ponders. Sometimes they stay with them, and sometimes
they don't. :o) My neighbors were given a lesson on native creatures in
the letter last year. That these were NOT pets, but come and go as easily
as the crickets. The City Attorney's office said that was the first letter
they had gotten regarding frogs and they thought it was hilarious. Believe
me, the letter I got from them was nothing to laugh about. I set them the
letter and then stayed in e-mail contact with them. No one contacted me or
them after the letter went out. ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
> noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?
>
> Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
===========================
They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.*
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"AngieNews2" > wrote in message
.. .
> Me too :)
> Croaking frogs would be music to my ears up here!
> I'm just hoping our green frog "Ralphie" has survived the winter in our
> pond.
> Consider yourself lucky :))
> Pretty sad state if people are annoyed by such a minor "natural" music!
> Wow.
===========================
Have you ever heard a pond full of lovelorn frogs? If it's close to
someone's home there is no way they're going to sleep through it. I had to
remove a 1/2 barrel from our side porch because the frogs kept me awake and
I love the sounds of nature.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria groups.*
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Koi-Lo > wrote:
>
>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>> I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
>> noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?
>>
>> Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
>===========================
>They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
>different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.

Yeah, nobody records sounds of barking dogs and sells it as new age
relaxing music.

Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?

Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
in your pond.

You American city dwellers just slay me with your irony.


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>
>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>>> I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
>>> noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?
>>>
>>> Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
>>===========================
>>They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
>>different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.
>
> Yeah, nobody records sounds of barking dogs and sells it as new age
> relaxing music.

I doubt anyone would play croaking frog CDs (and I have many Nature CDs) as
loud as some ponds get in spring and summer. ;-)

> Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
> motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
> fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
> like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?

Now that depends on where you live. There are plenty of places where you
can get a summons if you have loud pipes on your car or bike. NYC of all
places hands out summonses for playing a loud Boom-Box in the street.
Personally I don't mind the frogs croaking at night as long as they're not
close to my bedroom window. Not everyone is a heavy sleeper. I mean, we do
have to be considerate of our neighbors. If the frogs keep them awake what
are they supposed to do - go rent a Motel room to get some sleep? ;-)

> Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
> the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
> buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
> course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
> in your pond.
>
> You American city dwellers just slay me with your irony.

BTW not all of us on this NG are city dwellers. Even out here in the
country most of us do have at least one neighbor in earshot of our ponds.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds*.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> In article >,
>> Koi-Lo > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I'm just a little curious as to how you can be held responsible for the
>>>> noise made by a wild creature - in this case the frogs?
>>>>
>>>> Also a bit curious as to how you turn the volume down....
>>>
>>> ===========================
>>> They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
>>> different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, nobody records sounds of barking dogs and sells it as new age
>> relaxing music.
>
>
> I doubt anyone would play croaking frog CDs (and I have many Nature CDs)
> as loud as some ponds get in spring and summer. ;-)
>
>> Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
>> motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
>> fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
>> like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?
>
>
> Now that depends on where you live. There are plenty of places where
> you can get a summons if you have loud pipes on your car or bike. NYC
> of all places hands out summonses for playing a loud Boom-Box in the
> street. Personally I don't mind the frogs croaking at night as long as
> they're not close to my bedroom window. Not everyone is a heavy
> sleeper. I mean, we do have to be considerate of our neighbors. If the
> frogs keep them awake what are they supposed to do - go rent a Motel
> room to get some sleep? ;-)
>
>> Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
>> the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
>> buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
>> course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
>> in your pond.
>>
>> You American city dwellers just slay me with your irony.
>
>
> BTW not all of us on this NG are city dwellers. Even out here in the
> country most of us do have at least one neighbor in earshot of our ponds.


Those of us in the UK know the pain of having frog CDs - there was/is a
certain "Crazy Frog" that charted...yuk

I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into a
puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
mentality. I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
keep chickens? Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats
etc. (OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...

Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any neighbourhood...

A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?
That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but IMO
in terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the list....

Gill

[~ janj]

>On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:49:55 -0400, Derek Broughton > wrote:

>You have to realize, Jan's not talking about "croaking" frogs. She's got
>Pacific Tree Frogs. You have a little grey Tree Frog that is probably
>similar, but I only ever saw one, and I certainly never had more than a
>couple at a time (outside St. Thomas).
>
>Have you ever heard an American Toad trilling? It goes for maybe 5 seconds.
>Now, raise that pitch an octave, and maintain it for 30-60 seconds at a
>time. It's loud, and potentially annoying. If you get half a dozen of
>them outside your window it could drive you crazy.

Naaa, by that time you've got white noise, easy to sleep to. What wakes you
up is when they all stop at once, dead silence.

>However, Jan's neighbors are apparently already crazy :-)

????? I hope you're mean crazy in that they did not talk to or write me a
note, and not crazy because they live near me? ~ jan
~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

[~ janj]

>On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:24:33 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote:

>>They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
>>different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.

I do like some of the ways you think. The neighbors that I assume
complained, have a dog... that barks. ;)

>Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
>motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
>fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
>like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?

I used all that in my letter, about them eating MOSQUITOS, plus other bugs.

>Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
>the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
>buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
>course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
>in your pond.

If I had all the money in the world, I might just let a lawyer take that
route, but I don't.<s> As far as the SUV, I drive a Prius. The neighbors
with the barking dog? A big honkin' Peepup truck. Which wakes my son when
they start it up in the AM. Go figure.

In my case, it isn't that my frogs kept these folks awake. Their bedroom is
on the opposite side of their house. We got the letter soon after they got
a big screen TV in the living room and the weather got nice enough to have
windows open. I think it affected their TV listening. And no these aren't
older homes, with thin windows, in fact most of their windows were upgraded
prior to moving in. So I assume, like ours, shut the window and the sound
is gone.

Otoh, the people behind me, who's bedroom practically overlooks the pond,
didn't complain. When I asked them about it, she did say that her and
another neighbor (next to the pond) were discussing how loud the frogs were
that year. Then she volunteered to call me about them, not to get rid of
them, just to decrease the #s. Unfortunately, she didn't call before I got
the CA letter.... and maybe that is just as well, since it probably took
some time for the letter to get put into action. If I'd lowered the volume
and then got the letter, I might have thought I had to remove all of them.

The most interesting thing, since I didn't know for sure who had contacted
the CA. I put out 16 letters to surrounding houses. I got back 12 positive
responses. I counted my two "lower the #s" neighbors as negative, so that
left only 2 others, one of which is kitty corner to me, sound blocked by my
house and their bedrooms are in the back, and no windows open to the front,
and I think they would talk to me first. That kind of whittled it down who
wrote the letter. ;-)

Course I love K30's idea. Write a letter apologizing about the frogs, that
2 big snakes have been turned loose to take care of the problem. Please
keep all pets and small children inside until you no longer hear frogs in
the evenings. This could take a couple weeks. Thank you, ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[~ janj]

>I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
>you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
>somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into a
>puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
>mentality. I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
>inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
>responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
>keep chickens? Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
>they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats
>etc. (OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...
>
>Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any neighbourhood...
>
>A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?
>That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but IMO
>in terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the list....
>Gill

And therein, why the CA office thought it was hilarious. I would have been
happier, had the CA called me, laughter in the background, and mentioned
there had been a complaint. I still would have reduced the numbers. And
speaking of wild animals, I mentioned Maypies (related to crows) and how
noisy they can be in the neighborhood.

Personally it all comes down to "control" and you've got it, the case of
"not in my backyard where I can go harass it away" mentality. By fall we
have big crickets that I know sing every bit as loud as the frogs, under
everyone's window. Course, looking at the house across the street... they
have a BIG barked (non)flower bed, with no plants. That probably helps keep
the crickets to a minimum. ;-) ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

[Richard Sexton]

>have to be considerate of our neighbors. If the frogs keep them awake what
>are they supposed to do - go rent a Motel room to get some sleep? ;-)

First they came for the frongs and I didn't do anything.

Then they came for the hummingbirds and I didn't do anything.

Then they came for the moths and I didn't do anything...

Quick, somebody name mother nature in a lawsuit. That bitch
is just a disturbing influence.



--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>> BTW not all of us on this NG are city dwellers. Even out here in the
>> country most of us do have at least one neighbor in earshot of our ponds.
=====================
>
> Those of us in the UK know the pain of having frog CDs - there was/is a
> certain "Crazy Frog" that charted...yuk

I was talking about the green slippery ones. :-)

> I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
> you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
> somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into a
> puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
> mentality.

It may partly be that - for sure. But what can someone do if the frogs in
your pond do indeed keep them awake night after night? Those who must get
up in the morning to go to a job can't sleep during the day when the frogs
are quiet. Here in the USA you would cited for "creating a nuisance" just
like if you had a backyard full of barking dogs or were feeding 100 stray
cats.

I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
> inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
> responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
> keep chickens?

If they're creating problems for a neighbor - YES - in many areas. But the
USA is big and laws vary state by state and city by city.

Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
> they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats etc.
> (OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...

If the birds of prey are after your chickens or pigeons - you can be held
responsible for "creating a nuisance." Again Gill, it depends on where you
live.

> Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any neighbourhood...

I think most people would rather spray with toxic poisons than be kept awake
by frogs. :-(

> A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?

I hate to say this but usually a neighbor who is being kept awake by
fighting cats buys a 22........ bye bye cats. People here who value their
cats neuter them and keep them indoors.

> That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but IMO in
> terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the list....

I agree... as long as they're not under my own bedroom window. ;-)
Fortunately my ponds are in front of the house and behind the house, none
are near by bedroom. My house isn't really close enough to the other homes
to have anyone complain about the frogs.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds*.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

~ janj wrote:
>>I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
>>you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
>>somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into a
>>puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
>>mentality. I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
>>inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
>>responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
>>keep chickens? Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
>>they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats
>>etc. (OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...
>>
>>Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any neighbourhood...
>>
>>A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?
>>That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but IMO
>>in terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the list....
>>Gill
>
>
> And therein, why the CA office thought it was hilarious. I would have been
> happier, had the CA called me, laughter in the background, and mentioned
> there had been a complaint. I still would have reduced the numbers. And
> speaking of wild animals, I mentioned Maypies (related to crows) and how
> noisy they can be in the neighborhood.
>
> Personally it all comes down to "control" and you've got it, the case of
> "not in my backyard where I can go harass it away" mentality. By fall we
> have big crickets that I know sing every bit as loud as the frogs, under
> everyone's window. Course, looking at the house across the street... they
> have a BIG barked (non)flower bed, with no plants. That probably helps keep
> the crickets to a minimum. ;-) ~ jan
>
>
> ~ jan/WA
> Zone 7a

But why should you as a pond keeper be in charge of controlling
wildlife??? Sorry, just don't get it...most wildlife in our communities
are under threat and we, at least in the UK, are encouraged to do
everything to keep environments that will encourage our natural
inhabitants.....to hell with the noise....

The birds I was referring to are Red Kites that have been reintroduced.
They are thriving now in this area but still an endangered species...and
more noisy than you could ever believe....I can't leave my pet rabbit
and guinea pig out even in daytime for fear that these birds will take
them....but I'm not about to sue the conservationists or anyone that is
trying to get these beautiful (even if a little scary) birds native
again....and the noise when mating is unbelievable...with all the
windows shut (and we also have double glazing) the whole house sounds as
if it is surrounded by heavy breathers (in fact the first time I heard
it a few years ago it freaked me - it was like some perv had a megaphone
outside my house - lol)

If you live outside of a heavy built up area, then the sounds of nature
are part of the experience....

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>>> BTW not all of us on this NG are city dwellers. Even out here in the
>>> country most of us do have at least one neighbor in earshot of our
>>> ponds.
>
> =====================
>
>>
>> Those of us in the UK know the pain of having frog CDs - there was/is
>> a certain "Crazy Frog" that charted...yuk
>
>
> I was talking about the green slippery ones. :-)
>
>> I still don't see how someone can be held responsible for frogs...OK
>> you've built a pond that attracts them but they are still out there
>> somewhere...maybe if you didn't have a pond they'd find their way into
>> a puddle in a neighbour's garden...or is it a "not in my back yard"
>> mentality.
>
>
> It may partly be that - for sure. But what can someone do if the frogs
> in your pond do indeed keep them awake night after night? Those who
> must get up in the morning to go to a job can't sleep during the day
> when the frogs are quiet. Here in the USA you would cited for "creating
> a nuisance" just like if you had a backyard full of barking dogs or were
> feeding 100 stray cats.
>
> I just don't see how any pond keeper could be deemed
>
>> inconsiderate because a wild animal makes a noise - can you be held
>> responsible if a fox (or any wild dog) makes a noise because maybe you
>> keep chickens?
>
>
> If they're creating problems for a neighbor - YES - in many areas. But
> the USA is big and laws vary state by state and city by city.
>
> Or that a bird of prey makes a horrendous noise because
>
>> they live in your area because there is other wild-life - mice, rats
>> etc. (OMG just remembered they will be at it again in a few weeks)...
>
>
> If the birds of prey are after your chickens or pigeons - you can be
> held responsible for "creating a nuisance." Again Gill, it depends on
> where you live.
>
>> Actually having a frog eating bugs must be a plus for any
>> neighbourhood...
>
>
> I think most people would rather spray with toxic poisons than be kept
> awake by frogs. :-(
>
>> A dog barking is different...but how do you stop your pet cat fighting?
>
>
> I hate to say this but usually a neighbor who is being kept awake by
> fighting cats buys a 22........ bye bye cats. People here who value
> their cats neuter them and keep them indoors.
>
>> That keeps people awake as well...in fact the list is endless...but
>> IMO in terms of anti-social behaviour frogs just don't get on the
>> list....
>
>
> I agree... as long as they're not under my own bedroom window. ;-)
> Fortunately my ponds are in front of the house and behind the house,
> none are near by bedroom. My house isn't really close enough to the
> other homes to have anyone complain about the frogs.
>

But you still cannot say that the pond owner is responsible....as I said
if they aren't in your pond they will still be in the neighbourhood...

Yep, spraying with poison or shooting cats and other wildlife is an
option but hardly a responsible one....you and I have had various
discussions about the quality of lifestock and regulations regarding the
sale of fish etc. Obviously the attitude goes further than this if
shooting a cat, poisoning, or suing anyone who creates a natural
environment for native species is the norm then you guys have a lot of
work to do....I know you won't take this personally as I know your
opinions on all of this...we've talked too much....but you guys in the
US need to get real on this....native species need to be
protected...even if they do irritate....if you choose to live in the
country then you accept the wildlife....

Gill

[Richard Sexton]

>But what can someone do if the frogs in your pond do indeed keep them awake
>night after night?

Earplugs?

Who do they sue when the cidadas are doing their thing?

I still find this oh so terribly amusing. I moved out of the city
because it's quiet and dark up where I an. I mean REAL quiet. If
I turn off all the electroenic gizmos you can hear a pin drop
half a mile away and a doh barking 10 miles away.

I guess I never thought of the sounds of woves, coyotes, racoons,
birgs bugs and frogs as an annoyance. But the sounds of the city -
where it's never quiet? Like I said I moved to get away from that
noise.



--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:30:14 +0000 (UTC), (Richard
Sexton) wrote:

>>But what can someone do if the frogs in your pond do indeed keep them awake
>>night after night?
>
>Earplugs?
>
>Who do they sue when the cidadas are doing their thing?
>
>I still find this oh so terribly amusing. I moved out of the city
>because it's quiet and dark up where I an. I mean REAL quiet. If
>I turn off all the electroenic gizmos you can hear a pin drop
>half a mile away and a doh barking 10 miles away.
>
>I guess I never thought of the sounds of woves, coyotes, racoons,
>birgs bugs and frogs as an annoyance. But the sounds of the city -
>where it's never quiet? Like I said I moved to get away from that
>noise.

You wouldn't like where I live. No neighbors to speak of, but lots and
lots of frogs and other critters that make noise. For sure, it's a
different kind of noise than you find in a city, but quiet, it's not.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Stings like a butterfly, floats like a bee

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> But why should you as a pond keeper be in charge of controlling
> wildlife???

Because if your pond wasn't there, there would be no wildlife problem for
the neighbors to complain about. That's how the city or town fathers see
it. Sometimes people fill in farm ponds near homes to avoid the noise of
wildlife and mosquitoes. That's the way people are here. Few have any real
concern for the environment.

Sorry, just don't get it...most wildlife in our communities
> are under threat and we, at least in the UK, are encouraged to do
> everything to keep environments that will encourage our natural
> inhabitants.....to hell with the noise....

When you put a pond in not all cities see them as natural habitats. :-(
And in many areas here they must be fenced to keep children from falling in
and drowning.

> The birds I was referring to are Red Kites that have been reintroduced.
> They are thriving now in this area but still an endangered species...and
> more noisy than you could ever believe....I can't leave my pet rabbit and
> guinea pig out even in daytime for fear that these birds will take
> them....but I'm not about to sue the conservationists or anyone that is
> trying to get these beautiful (even if a little scary) birds native
> again....and the noise when mating is unbelievable...with all the windows
> shut (and we also have double glazing) the whole house sounds as if it is
> surrounded by heavy breathers (in fact the first time I heard it a few
> years ago it freaked me - it was like some perv had a megaphone outside my
> house - lol)

ROFLMAO!!!! :-D We have sparrow hawks and red-tailed hawks here.

> If you live outside of a heavy built up area, then the sounds of nature
> are part of the experience....

Yep, that's how I see it.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds*
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>> I agree... as long as they're not under my own bedroom window. ;-)
>> Fortunately my ponds are in front of the house and behind the house, none
>> are near by bedroom. My house isn't really close enough to the other
>> homes to have anyone complain about the frogs.
==================
> But you still cannot say that the pond owner is responsible....as I said
> if they aren't in your pond they will still be in the neighbourhood...

Not necessarily. Until we put the ponds in all I ever heard here were the
spring-peepers in the stock pond on an adjoining farm. That lasted only a
week maybe. That pond isn't close enough to make the peepers a night time
problem. But once we put in these two ponds we suddenly had several
different frogs croaking away from mid spring into the summer. So I think
that may depend on where you live. Breeding frogs need water and if there
is no water you wont have croakers at night.

> Yep, spraying with poison or shooting cats and other wildlife is an option
> but hardly a responsible one....

I agree! It's disgusting but that's what people do. In one town someone
was poisoning dogs with hot-dogs. Everyone feared a child would eat a piece
and sicken or die. I have a Have-A-Heart trap for pest animals.

you and I have had various
> discussions about the quality of lifestock and regulations regarding the
> sale of fish etc. Obviously the attitude goes further than this if
> shooting a cat, poisoning, or suing anyone who creates a natural
> environment for native species is the norm then you guys have a lot of
> work to do....

Getting anything changed here is a bear. People just give up and go with
the flow.......

I know you won't take this personally as I know your
> opinions on all of this...we've talked too much....but you guys in the US
> need to get real on this....native species need to be protected...even if
> they do irritate....if you choose to live in the country then you accept
> the wildlife....

BINGO!!! Now if someone would only tell the city people who move out here
and start complaining about frogs, the smell of cow manure, crowing roosters
that this is all part of country life - they may decide to stay in town.
If they don't like these natural sounds and smells they don't belong out
here.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds.*
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >But what can someone do if the frogs in your pond do indeed keep them
> >awake
>>night after night?
>
> Earplugs?

I doubt they'd want to do that plus keep their windows shut in nice weather.
Hey, I'm not the one complaining. I moved the barrel off my porch. ;-)

> Who do they sue when the cidadas are doing their thing?

Here in TN I can attest to the fact that the frogs in my ponds are a lot
noisier than the cicadas and night insects.

> I still find this oh so terribly amusing. I moved out of the city
> because it's quiet and dark up where I an. I mean REAL quiet. If
> I turn off all the electroenic gizmos you can hear a pin drop
> half a mile away and a doh barking 10 miles away.

Here too. I'm 6 miles from town but this area is building up fast. We're
near a beautiful lake and the land is extremely desirable at this time. We
can see deer and other wildlife right from our back door.

> I guess I never thought of the sounds of woves, coyotes, racoons,
> birgs bugs and frogs as an annoyance. But the sounds of the city -
> where it's never quiet? Like I said I moved to get away from that
> noise.

--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> You wouldn't like where I live. No neighbors to speak of, but lots and
> lots of frogs and other critters that make noise. For sure, it's a
> different kind of noise than you find in a city, but quiet, it's not.
============================
It's quiet here in the winter. All I may hear is a dog barking or rooster
crowing off in the distance. From spring to fall it gets noisy with an
assortment of insects, crickets, birds and the frogs. The bird song and
frogs peter out summer. From late summer to frost it's mainly insects and
crickets - right up to the first killing frost.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds.*
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~ janj]

>But why should you as a pond keeper be in charge of controlling
>wildlife??? Gil

Control, as in, if my dog is barking it doesn't bother me, because I can at
any time go out and shut it up. Whereas, the neighbor doesn't have this
control, therefore the dog is far more annoying to them. That's what I
meant about having control.

I don't have a dog that barks, btw, just frogs. :o) ~ jan


~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

[~ janj]

>....but you guys in the US.....<

Please don't generalize. I'm sure there are unenlightened people in the UK
who have done in a protected species. ~ jan

> need to get real on this....native species need to be
>protected...even if they do irritate....if you choose to live in the
>country then you accept the wildlife....
>
>Gill

~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

[Gail Futoran]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> >have to be considerate of our neighbors. If the frogs keep them awake
> >what
>>are they supposed to do - go rent a Motel room to get some sleep? ;-)
>
> First they came for the frongs and I didn't do anything.
>
> Then they came for the hummingbirds and I didn't do anything.
>
> Then they came for the moths and I didn't do anything...
>
> Quick, somebody name mother nature in a lawsuit. That bitch
> is just a disturbing influence.

LOL!

They'll not take my Mockingbirds! I'll fight
to the death!

The rat snakes ... well ... Ok, they can stay
as long as I can figure out a way to keep them
away from my Barn Swallow nests. :(

Gail

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:02:18 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>It's quiet here in the winter. All I may hear is a dog barking or rooster
>crowing off in the distance. From spring to fall it gets noisy with an
>assortment of insects, crickets, birds and the frogs. The bird song and
>frogs peter out summer. From late summer to frost it's mainly insects and
>crickets - right up to the first killing frost.

It just doesn't get that cold here. The mosquitoes and other bugs get
pretty thinned out by the first frost, which often occurs in December but
has been as late as January. It's louder in spring and summer, but other
critters pretty much make noise year round in this area. Frogs pretty much
are here all year, and birds come here in the winter just like other folks
from up north. It seems quieter out here than in the city to me, but I'd
imagine it has more with me liking nature sounds than city sounds. The
actual noise level probably isn't a whole lot less.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Stings like a butterfly, floats like a bee

[Koi-Lo]

"Galen Hekhuis" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:02:18 -0600, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>It's quiet here in the winter. All I may hear is a dog barking or rooster
>>crowing off in the distance. From spring to fall it gets noisy with an
>>assortment of insects, crickets, birds and the frogs. The bird song and
>>frogs peter out summer. From late summer to frost it's mainly insects and
>>crickets - right up to the first killing frost.
===========
> It just doesn't get that cold here. The mosquitoes and other bugs get
> pretty thinned out by the first frost, which often occurs in December but
> has been as late as January.

Oh, lucky you! :-) Our winters are not that bad here in TN either but we
do get some real cold snaps. The temps can get down into the teens at
night. Our first frost usually occurs my mid to late October.

It's louder in spring and summer, but other
> critters pretty much make noise year round in this area. Frogs pretty
> much
> are here all year, and birds come here in the winter just like other folks
> from up north.

We have a lot of birds here as well, and several feeders for them - but
they're pretty quiet until April and May when the breeding season starts.
The closer to the lake you get the more birdsong and insects you hear. I'm
surrounded by nature. :-))

It seems quieter out here than in the city to me, but I'd
> imagine it has more with me liking nature sounds than city sounds. The
> actual noise level probably isn't a whole lot less.

I lived in NYC which can get pretty darn noisy with Jets, sirens, Fire
Engines, back-firing cars and what have you - but when you live there in
becomes white-noise and you don't really hear it unless it's right outside
your door.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds.*
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-lo]

http://tinyurl.com/99azt
http://tinyurl.com/87ow4
http://tinyurl.com/d6t5m
http://tinyurl.com/aheek
http://tinyurl.com/ck97r
http://tinyurl.com/cm3dp
http://tinyurl.com/8bscg
http://tinyurl.com/7epdg
http://tinyurl.com/bya3z

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on rec.ponds.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
~ janj wrote:
> >On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:24:33 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote:
>
> >>They can claim her "unnatural" pond is creating a nuisance. It's little
> >>different than having a neighbor with a barking dog.
>
> I do like some of the ways you think. The neighbors that I assume
> complained, have a dog... that barks. ;)
>
> >Chirping frogs in the spring, that eat bugs are a nuisence, but cars,
> >motorbikes and what have you that make noise, consume expensive fossil
> >fuels we buy for a lot of money from the mideast, that also pollutes
> >like mad (to the detriment of aforementioned frogs ironically) are ok?
>
> I used all that in my letter, about them eating MOSQUITOS, plus other bugs.
>
> >Tell them your plan is to buy a big SUV and to drive it a lot so
> >the emissions will eventually kill them off. Then alert the green people,
> >buy a local politoco a TV and let nature and politics take its
> >course. If I can refresh your memory, you saw an endangered frog
> >in your pond.
>
> If I had all the money in the world, I might just let a lawyer take that
> route, but I don't.<s> As far as the SUV, I drive a Prius. The neighbors
> with the barking dog? A big honkin' Peepup truck. Which wakes my son when
> they start it up in the AM. Go figure.
>
> In my case, it isn't that my frogs kept these folks awake. Their bedroom is
> on the opposite side of their house. We got the letter soon after they got
> a big screen TV in the living room and the weather got nice enough to have
> windows open. I think it affected their TV listening. And no these aren't
> older homes, with thin windows, in fact most of their windows were upgraded
> prior to moving in. So I assume, like ours, shut the window and the sound
> is gone.
>
> Otoh, the people behind me, who's bedroom practically overlooks the pond,
> didn't complain. When I asked them about it, she did say that her and
> another neighbor (next to the pond) were discussing how loud the frogs were
> that year. Then she volunteered to call me about them, not to get rid of
> them, just to decrease the #s. Unfortunately, she didn't call before I got
> the CA letter.... and maybe that is just as well, since it probably took
> some time for the letter to get put into action. If I'd lowered the volume
> and then got the letter, I might have thought I had to remove all of them.
>
> The most interesting thing, since I didn't know for sure who had contacted
> the CA. I put out 16 letters to surrounding houses. I got back 12 positive
> responses. I counted my two "lower the #s" neighbors as negative, so that
> left only 2 others, one of which is kitty corner to me, sound blocked by my
> house and their bedrooms are in the back, and no windows open to the front,
> and I think they would talk to me first. That kind of whittled it down who
> wrote the letter. ;-)
>
> Course I love K30's idea. Write a letter apologizing about the frogs, that
> 2 big snakes have been turned loose to take care of the problem. Please
> keep all pets and small children inside until you no longer hear frogs in
> the evenings. This could take a couple weeks. Thank you, ~ jan
>
> --------------
> See my ponds and filter design:
> www.jjspond.us
>
> ~Keep 'em Wet!~
> Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
> To e-mail see website

[Derek Broughton]

~ janj wrote:

>>On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:49:55 -0400, Derek Broughton >
>>wrote:
>
>>Have you ever heard an American Toad trilling? It goes for maybe 5
>>seconds. Now, raise that pitch an octave, and maintain it for 30-60
>>seconds at a
>>time. It's loud, and potentially annoying. If you get half a dozen of
>>them outside your window it could drive you crazy.
>
> Naaa, by that time you've got white noise, easy to sleep to. What wakes
> you up is when they all stop at once, dead silence.

"It's quiet out there. Too quiet..." :-)

>>However, Jan's neighbors are apparently already crazy :-)
>
> ????? I hope you're mean crazy in that they did not talk to or write me a
> note, and not crazy because they live near me? ~ jan

No, just crazy that they want to object to the sounds of nature. I say, if
you can't stand nature, move to the city.
--
derek

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Derek Broughton > wrote:
>No, just crazy that they want to object to the sounds of nature. I say, if
>you can't stand nature, move to the city.

An odd stance when cities everywhere are tryin to promote more
greenspace. And, the most city-like city, New York has Central
park in the midle of it just to remind people what grass,
trees and other flora and fora are. Are you sure you're in the
right newsgroup? Alt.pave.the.earth is that way ------>

I presumed a pond in a city is to have your own little piece
of greenspace. No?


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Derek Broughton]

Richard Sexton wrote:

> In article >,
> Derek Broughton > wrote:
>>No, just crazy that they want to object to the sounds of nature. I say,
>>if you can't stand nature, move to the city.
>
> An odd stance when cities everywhere are tryin to promote more
> greenspace.

Hey, I didn't say city folk can't have their own slice of nature - but if
you can't stand nature, it's certainly possible to avoid it in most cities.
--
derek

[Koi-Lo]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> I presumed a pond in a city is to have your own little piece
> of greenspace. No?
===============
When I lived in NYC ponds weren't as popular as they are now but some people
did have them. They always had goldfish in them and were made of cement -
no rubber liners at the time. The ponds were also much smaller than people
have now. I'm guessing no more than 300 to 500g. I don't recall ever
seeing a filter although in-pond sprinklers or spitting fountains were
popular. Maybe the filters were under the sprinklers/spitters. One good
thing about a city pond would be no fish eating herons, frogs, snakes and
snapper turtles. No one wants to lose their favorite GF or koi.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Derek Broughton > wrote:
>Richard Sexton wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Derek Broughton > wrote:
>>>No, just crazy that they want to object to the sounds of nature. I say,
>>>if you can't stand nature, move to the city.
>>
>> An odd stance when cities everywhere are tryin to promote more
>> greenspace.
>
>Hey, I didn't say city folk can't have their own slice of nature - but if
>you can't stand nature, it's certainly possible to avoid it in most cities.

Modulo pigeons, flies, sparrows and more. Don't be daft.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net