Protein Skimmer

[Peter Breed]

Anybody running a protein skimmer on a pond?
I've read the argument that marine aquatics keepers tend to run skimmers
because for them water is comparatively expensive, and for freshwater
this isn't true, hence its not necessary as water changes remove the
need, but due to low rainfall there is a high risk a hosepipe ban here
this summer and anything that reduced the need for water changes seems
like a good idea.
Peter
East midlands, England

[Derek Broughton]

Peter Breed wrote:

> Anybody running a protein skimmer on a pond?
> I've read the argument that marine aquatics keepers tend to run skimmers
> because for them water is comparatively expensive, and for freshwater
> this isn't true, hence its not necessary as water changes remove the
> need, but due to low rainfall there is a high risk a hosepipe ban here
> this summer and anything that reduced the need for water changes seems
> like a good idea.

Steve Meyer, who wrote about pond fish for years in AFM magazine, swears by
them for ponds. aiui, it's not so much that water is expensive that
they're used in marine aquaria but simply because protein skimmers are much
more effective in salt water (something to do with the bubbles being more
stable). To get the same effect in freshwater you need something much
bigger - but that can be worthwhile with a pond.

http://tinyurl.com/lduvl gives his directions for building a protein
skimmer, but it's unfortunately missing the images.
--
derek

[Phil Cav]

Not sure if it would work. Surface tension of fresh water is much lower than
salt water. Not sure dissolved organics will fractionate out.

"Peter Breed" > wrote in message
...
> Anybody running a protein skimmer on a pond?
> I've read the argument that marine aquatics keepers tend to run skimmers
> because for them water is comparatively expensive, and for freshwater this
> isn't true, hence its not necessary as water changes remove the need, but
> due to low rainfall there is a high risk a hosepipe ban here this summer
> and anything that reduced the need for water changes seems like a good
> idea.
> Peter
> East midlands, England

[Roy]

Protein skimmers do not work worth a flip on fresh water.......There
are other methods your able to employ to remove proteins out of the
water, other than a typical fractionator or protein skimmer....
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:41:53 -0600, "Phil Cav" >
wrote:
>><>Not sure if it would work. Surface tension of fresh water is much lower than
>><>salt water. Not sure dissolved organics will fractionate out.
>><>
>><>"Peter Breed" > wrote in message
...
>><>> Anybody running a protein skimmer on a pond?
>><>> I've read the argument that marine aquatics keepers tend to run skimmers
>><>> because for them water is comparatively expensive, and for freshwater this
>><>> isn't true, hence its not necessary as water changes remove the need, but
>><>> due to low rainfall there is a high risk a hosepipe ban here this summer
>><>> and anything that reduced the need for water changes seems like a good
>><>> idea.
>><>> Peter
>><>> East midlands, England
>><>

--
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oooO
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The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[Altum]

Roy wrote:
> Protein skimmers do not work worth a flip on fresh water.......There
> are other methods your able to employ to remove proteins out of the
> water, other than a typical fractionator or protein skimmer....

I thought you could use a skimmer in FW with ozone. Never tried,
though. Here's an ozonater and skimmer for koi ponds.
http://www.koicarp.net/filtration/protein_filters/estrad_protein_skimmers.html

This article says that if there's enough protein that waterfalls foam a
bit, you can skim.
http://www.koimag.co.uk/featureRead.asp?ID=2049

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Phil Cav]

Whoa, I bet you have to pump a LOT of air or ozone to create foam in fresh
water.

"Altum" > wrote in message
m...
> Roy wrote:
>> Protein skimmers do not work worth a flip on fresh water.......There
>> are other methods your able to employ to remove proteins out of the
>> water, other than a typical fractionator or protein skimmer....
>
> I thought you could use a skimmer in FW with ozone. Never tried, though.
> Here's an ozonater and skimmer for koi ponds.
> http://www.koicarp.net/filtration/protein_filters/estrad_protein_skimmers.html
>
> This article says that if there's enough protein that waterfalls foam a
> bit, you can skim.
> http://www.koimag.co.uk/featureRead.asp?ID=2049
>
> --
> Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Peter Breed]

I've read similar articles and lots of stuff on marine setups,
especially wrt marine DIY setups*, but I have yet to find much info
people with experience on pond size fresh water setups. I am hoping
somebody will post with some experience.
Part of me is thinking is the worst that could happen is the generation
of some very well oxygenated water. The best would seem to be
proactively removing contaminants.
I have heard goldfish describe as sewage factories and sewage treatment
plants have long used foam fractionation the logic seems obvious - I'm
wondering why everyone isn't doing it already,
Peter

*Commercial units seem very expensive for what seem relatively simple
pieces of apparatus
Altum wrote:
> Roy wrote:
>> Protein skimmers do not work worth a flip on fresh water.......There
>> are other methods your able to employ to remove proteins out of the
>> water, other than a typical fractionator or protein skimmer....
>
> I thought you could use a skimmer in FW with ozone. Never tried,
> though. Here's an ozonater and skimmer for koi ponds.
> http://www.koicarp.net/filtration/protein_filters/estrad_protein_skimmers.html
>
>
> This article says that if there's enough protein that waterfalls foam a
> bit, you can skim.
> http://www.koimag.co.uk/featureRead.asp?ID=2049
>

[Derek Broughton]

Phil Cav wrote:

> Whoa, I bet you have to pump a LOT of air or ozone to create foam in fresh
> water.

Who are you kidding? _Everybody_ who has a waterfall in their pond will see
foaming sooner or later. Foam fractionating works any time you have enough
DOCs to need it.
--
derek

[Andrew Burgess]

"Peter Breed" > wrote in message ...
> Anybody running a protein skimmer on a pond?
> I've read the argument that marine aquatics keepers tend to run skimmers
> because for them water is comparatively expensive, and for freshwater this
> isn't true, hence its not necessary as water changes remove the need, but
> due to low rainfall there is a high risk a hosepipe ban here this summer
> and anything that reduced the need for water changes seems like a good
> idea.

"Phil Cav" > writes:
>Not sure if it would work. Surface tension of fresh water is much lower than
>salt water. Not sure dissolved organics will fractionate out.

You could put an airstone in your filter. If you get foam and you are unable
to do a water change, think about building a protein skimmer.

The more salt in your water the better a foam fractionator will work but keep in
mind if you are unable to change water the salt concentration will rise
due to evaporation.

HTH

[Roy]

Well it makes you wonder why places like AES sells protein skimmers,
and then have that little caveat"No guarantee as to weather the
skimmers will pull protein etc out of the water, as skimmers are not
the best choice for fresh water use" Yet they sell skimmers in the 0's
of thousands of dollars thats just rated to 4000 gal
capacity.....Skimming freshwater ponds is a waste of time and money,
unless your like the vanderbilts or trumps with an unlimited amount of
cash to play with, and plunking down 6 to 10 thousand bucks on a whim
and not have it work will not set you back in other needs that are
necessary......

On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:34:48 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Burgess
> wrote:
>><>"Peter Breed" > wrote in message ...
>><>> Anybody running a protein skimmer on a pond?
>><>> I've read the argument that marine aquatics keepers tend to run skimmers
>><>> because for them water is comparatively expensive, and for freshwater this
>><>> isn't true, hence its not necessary as water changes remove the need, but
>><>> due to low rainfall there is a high risk a hosepipe ban here this summer
>><>> and anything that reduced the need for water changes seems like a good
>><>> idea.
>><>
>><>"Phil Cav" > writes:
>><>>Not sure if it would work. Surface tension of fresh water is much lower than
>><>>salt water. Not sure dissolved organics will fractionate out.
>><>
>><>You could put an airstone in your filter. If you get foam and you are unable
>><>to do a water change, think about building a protein skimmer.
>><>
>><>The more salt in your water the better a foam fractionator will work but keep in
>><>mind if you are unable to change water the salt concentration will rise
>><>due to evaporation.
>><>
>><>HTH

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....

[~ janj]

Since foam is the most annoying thing regarding proteins in a pond, if one
has just a regular skimmer, doesn't that take care of the visual part of
the problem?

Personally, the only time I have foam is after spawning, and the majority
of the foam drifts off to the skimmer where it breaks down in a day or two.

Perhaps that is all the OP needs? ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
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[Derek Broughton]

~ janj wrote:

> Since foam is the most annoying thing regarding proteins in a pond, if one
> has just a regular skimmer, doesn't that take care of the visual part of
> the problem?

I don't think so - or rather, of course it takes care of the visual part,
but that's not the worst part. Foam is annoying, but the DOCs aren't good
for the fish.

> Personally, the only time I have foam is after spawning, and the majority
> of the foam drifts off to the skimmer where it breaks down in a day or
> two.
>
> Perhaps that is all the OP needs? ~ jan

If you get foam _without_ a protein skimmer, then your DOCs are unhealthily
high. Yes, if it just comes from spawning activity, it'll break down and
the pond will return to its normal balance soon, but I'd still recommend
taking a net and scooping out foam _any_ time you see it. That stuff just
doesn't need to be in the pond.

Using a foam fractionator should enable you to remove the DOCs before they
get to the point of being unhealthy.
--
derek