tiger barbs and oscars ...

[sew crazy]

Is it possible to mix these or will i give my oscars a nice snack ....

[NetMax]

"sew crazy" > wrote in message
...
> Is it possible to mix these or will i give my oscars a nice snack ....


The most predominant variables are the ages of the fish, quantities and
the size of the tank (not indicated).

Starting with all juveniles, and growing them together in a small tank
may be disadvantageous to the Oscar (Tigers are a gregarious bunch). The
bigger the tank and the greater the quantity of Tiger barbs, the less
likely this will be a problem.

Starting with adult Tiger barbs and a juvenile Oscar will give similar
results as above, but worse.

Starting with Oscars in an established tank, and adding Tigers would be
risky for the Tigers. The bigger the Oscar, the worse this gets.

All in all, probably not a good idea, as there's a fairly narrow 'comfort
band' for these fish to co-exist in. Not impossible, but probably not
practical either.
jmo
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Beano]

I found this compatability chart...
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/fwcompatibility_chart.cfm

Maybe you could get away with it? I don't know, I've just bought a 2nd
oscar for my tank with a lone oscar. It's been 24 hours and starting
to see some bickering... I even rearranged the tank and let the new one
swim around in it for about an hour before releasing the original one
back in. Alas, hopefully they will learn to live together...

[Tedd Jacobs]

"sew crazy" wrote...
> Is it possible to mix these or will i give my oscars a nice snack ....

they'd be a nice snack. check some of the other cichlids- ymmv.

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> Is it possible to mix these or will i give my oscars a
> nice snack ....

Both! :-)
--
cu
Marco

[MangroveJack]

I once gave my mid-sized oscars a live feed of juvenile convicts. I now
have a large pair of oscars happily living with second and third
generation convicts, many of which are snack-sized but are never even
looked at twice by the oscars.

The trick is to always overstock predatory fish (and remember, oscars
are not predatory fish ordinarily, and in the wild, are considered to
be herbivorous), and make sure to have plenty of hiding spaces for
smaller fish, and only add them to the tank immediately after giving
the existing fish a big feed.

[NetMax]

"MangroveJack" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I once gave my mid-sized oscars a live feed of juvenile convicts. I now
> have a large pair of oscars happily living with second and third
> generation convicts, many of which are snack-sized but are never even
> looked at twice by the oscars.
>
> The trick is to always overstock predatory fish (and remember, oscars
> are not predatory fish ordinarily, and in the wild, are considered to
> be herbivorous), and make sure to have plenty of hiding spaces for
> smaller fish, and only add them to the tank immediately after giving
> the existing fish a big feed.


Oscars herbivorous? What is your source for this?
Fishbase.org lists their diet as:
"Feeds on small fish, crayfish, worms and insect larvae."
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3612
--
www.NetMax.tk

[MangroveJack]

Well according to your source, NetMax, at least as much as 50% of their
diet would be plant matter:

http://www.fishbase.org/TrophicEco/FoodItemsList.cfm?vstockcode=3808&genus=Astronotus&species=ocellatus

Since the rest is comprised mostly of shellfish and insects, it is
fairly safe to assume that the natural diet of the Oscar is not mostly
comprised of other fish. I concede that they are not necessarily
herbivorous, though what they may eat in captivity and what they
generally eat in their natural habitat is most likely completely
different. When the complete studies are done on wild-living oscars,
we'll all know for sure.

As to my source, I must confess that I completely forget where I first
heard it, but at the time, it was good enough to convince me of what I
already strongly suspected.

And let's not forget, that virtually any animal (including humans) can
be trained to eat a perfectly unnatural diet. It may end our lives
prematurely in the long run, but for what it's worth in the short term,
it appears to be perfectly adequate and suitable for meeting all health
requirements. I think that the lack of albino specimens in the wild is
indicative that something we are doing isn't quite right.

[NetMax]

"MangroveJack" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well according to your source, NetMax, at least as much as 50% of their
> diet would be plant matter:
>
> http://www.fishbase.org/TrophicEco/FoodItemsList.cfm?vstockcode=3808&genus=Astronotus&species=ocellatus
>
> Since the rest is comprised mostly of shellfish and insects, it is
> fairly safe to assume that the natural diet of the Oscar is not mostly
> comprised of other fish. I concede that they are not necessarily
> herbivorous, though what they may eat in captivity and what they
> generally eat in their natural habitat is most likely completely
> different. When the complete studies are done on wild-living oscars,
> we'll all know for sure.
>
> As to my source, I must confess that I completely forget where I first
> heard it, but at the time, it was good enough to convince me of what I
> already strongly suspected.
>
> And let's not forget, that virtually any animal (including humans) can
> be trained to eat a perfectly unnatural diet. It may end our lives
> prematurely in the long run, but for what it's worth in the short term,
> it appears to be perfectly adequate and suitable for meeting all health
> requirements. I think that the lack of albino specimens in the wild is
> indicative that something we are doing isn't quite right.
>

My comment was based on your statement:
<snip>
The trick is to always overstock predatory fish (and remember, oscars
are not predatory fish ordinarily, and in the wild, are considered to
be herbivorous), and make sure to have plenty of hiding spaces for
smaller fish, and only add them to the tank immediately after giving
the existing fish a big feed.
<snip end>

I'm not commenting on the 'overstocking predatory fish' as that's a highly
subjective case-sensitive topic (but overstocking is a typical course of
action with mbuna, and not with South or Central American cichlids, so it
did raise my eyebrows).

I don't see that 50% interpretation in the link you provided. It appears to
list items they have eaten (perhaps from observation or dissection), but I
don't see any references to quantities. I don't see any basis to support
your statement that they are non-predatory or that they are considered
herbivorous. I don't want to appear argumentative. New information related
to my favourite hobby (fishies) is always a joy to reed. However I tend to
be sceptical about new different information and I'm prone to checking
sources. I'll apologise if that makes me appear mistrustful ;~).

I agree wholeheartedly that Oscars are highly food-motivated, mobile garbage
processors who will only show much of a preference in foods when fully
satiated (which is a rare event). Accordingly, they would certainly chomp
down a variety of vegetation between their meat courses. I also agree that
they should be fed a wide diet of foods to provide their full fibre, vitamin
and mineral requirements and the use of live feeders is a bad idea on many
levels.

Here now is where I would deviate from your suggestions, purely based on my
observations. Take their hunting methods as an example. They drift like a
chunk of wood (which they often resemble), towards their prey, and then
'inhale' their target through a rapid expulsion of water through their gills
to draw them deep down their throat to their grinding teeth, to hold them
while chewing. They may swim around with an oversized victim for a day or
two while they slowly grind them down to swallowing size. During this time,
they are not in distress, other than being wary of other fish stealing part
of their meal. This evolved behaviour is not characteristic of a herbivore
hunting his salad ;~), so I think this would categorize them as predatory.

They are omnivores, but if they were strongly herbivorous, I think the
Amazon river would be stripped of all vegetation by now ;~). I always
thought of Oscars as piscivorous carnivores (specialized hunters of fish and
appropriately sized invertebrates) and opportunistic herbivores (a side of
salad if the plant was right, and the hunger was there), but I'm always
interested in reading from credible research papers which might say
different.

cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

[swarvegorilla]

> They are omnivores, but if they were strongly herbivorous, I think the
> Amazon river would be stripped of all vegetation by now ;~). I always
> thought of Oscars as piscivorous carnivores (specialized hunters of fish
> and appropriately sized invertebrates) and opportunistic herbivores (a
> side of salad if the plant was right, and the hunger was there), but I'm
> always interested in reading from credible research papers which might say
> different.
>
> cheers
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

They are predators.
You would kill them with a vege diet.
My oscars get NO vege food.
They don't need it. They spawn every 2 weeks or so and the closest to a vege
they get is the odd earthworm.
Their attacking plants is prob more just them enjoying a bit of destruction.
Live food, frozen seafoood/brine/bloodworm/beefheart, and good old protein
pellets works fine for me.
Some people use a bit of spinach in their frozen foods but I just feed my
feeder fish a vege based flake. The old gutload trick.
In closing they are strongly attracted to any surface movement. They seek
out and kill. Hunters.
Predators.
And yes hundreds of studies on them, thousands of gut samplings.
predators
:)