Newbie Spring Start Up

[Peter Smith]

I just cleaned out my 60 gal. kidney shaped pond.
I have about 6, 3 inch comets and 1, 5 inch speckled koi and 1, 4 inch
frog.

I put the the fish and frog in a 20 gal tub, with water from the pond
from over the winter.
Coved it up with mesh. Put a air bubblier hose in.
I scrubbed and drained the muck out. I got the black pond liner nice and
clean.
I put 40 gals. of fresh, new water in, then added almost the rest of the
water from the tub back in.
I added pond-zime to the dose, in. I added 16oz. of aquarium salt and
stress coat to the dose.
I cleaned the 1000 gal.ph fishmate box filter out and hooked up to the
90 gal.ph beckett pump.
I pulled the plant pot, that's starting to sprout from the bottom and
put it on the first level.
I netted the fish and frog back in.
The water is a little cloudy, but it looks fine.

I live in mid PA, so the water is around 52 degrees. No feeding till it
gets up around 55-60 at night.

So, How do you think I did?

This is the 2nd year for the pond.
Thank's
Waiting to hear from you all. : )
Pete

[~ janj]

>On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:17:45 -0400, (Peter Smith) wrote:

>I just cleaned out my 60 gal. kidney shaped pond.
>I have about 6, 3 inch comets and 1, 5 inch speckled koi and 1, 4 inch
>frog.
>
>I put the the fish and frog in a 20 gal tub, with water from the pond
>from over the winter.
>Coved it up with mesh. Put a air bubblier hose in.
>I scrubbed and drained the muck out. I got the black pond liner nice and
>clean.
>I put 40 gals. of fresh, new water in, then added almost the rest of the
>water from the tub back in.
>I added pond-zime to the dose, in. I added 16oz. of aquarium salt and
>stress coat to the dose.
>I cleaned the 1000 gal.ph fishmate box filter out and hooked up to the
>90 gal.ph beckett pump.
> I pulled the plant pot, that's starting to sprout from the bottom and
>put it on the first level.
>I netted the fish and frog back in.
>The water is a little cloudy, but it looks fine.
>
> I live in mid PA, so the water is around 52 degrees. No feeding till it
>gets up around 55-60 at night.
>
>So, How do you think I did?

Hi Pete,

Well.... I normally don't recommend people scrub the liner. Rinse the dirt
off, but leave anything growing on the liner.

Currently you now have a completely new system, and when you started it 2
years ago, I bet you didn't start with that many fish of that size?

So you're going to have to watch your water quality really close, with test
kits! That cloudy water could be ammonia building up. I wouldn't feed the
fish for several weeks. Have an ammonia binder (Amquel) on hand, salt to
detox the nitrite that will come later.

Ideally 1 small koi needs 100 gallons, is that 60 gallons w/7 fish total
correct? Time to start digging perhaps? ;o) ~ jan

-----------------
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Koi-Lo]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...
>I just cleaned out my 60 gal. kidney shaped pond.
> I have about 6, 3 inch comets and 1, 5 inch speckled koi and 1, 4 inch
> frog.

A koi in a 60g pond? You do realize healthy koi grow rapidly and can reach
2 1/2 to 3 feet long. One koi needs at least 125 to 150g itself. Healthy
outdoor goldfish can reach almost a foot long and need 20g or more per fish.

> I put the the fish and frog in a 20 gal tub, with water from the pond
> from over the winter.
> Coved it up with mesh. Put a air bubblier hose in.
> I scrubbed and drained the muck out. I got the black pond liner nice and
> clean.

The stuff on the liner is the necessary bacteria that converts deadly
ammonia and nitrites to nitrates. It's not a good idea to remove it.

> I put 40 gals. of fresh, new water in, then added almost the rest of the
> water from the tub back in.
> I added pond-zime to the dose, in. I added 16oz. of aquarium salt and
> stress coat to the dose.
> I cleaned the 1000 gal.ph fishmate box filter out and hooked up to the
> 90 gal.ph beckett pump.
> I pulled the plant pot, that's starting to sprout from the bottom and
> put it on the first level.
> I netted the fish and frog back in.
> The water is a little cloudy, but it looks fine.

Please use an ammonia and nitrite kit to make sure they don't surge and kill
all your fish.

> I live in mid PA, so the water is around 52 degrees. No feeding till it
> gets up around 55-60 at night.

I start feeding mine when the water gets over 50 F or so.

> So, How do you think I did?

> This is the 2nd year for the pond.
> Thank's
> Waiting to hear from you all. : )
> Pete
>
--
Koi-Lo.... the ReelMcKoi
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at:
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Peter Smith]

Re: Newbie Spring Start Up

Group: rec.ponds Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 9:17pm (EDT-1) From:
(Koi-Lo) wrote:
>>
A koi in a 60g pond? You do realize healthy koi grow rapidly and can
reach 2 1/2 to 3 feet long. One koi needs at least 125 to 150g itself.
Healthy outdoor goldfish can reach almost a foot long and need 20g or
more per fish.

Well, I think it's not a koi then, it might be a big gold fish
It has barbels though.
I got the fish last year and it didn't get any bigger then it is now (4
or 5 inches).
>>

>The stuff on the liner is the necessary bacteria >that converts deadly
ammonia and nitrites to >nitrates. It's not a good idea to remove it.

I know all about cycles and all.
I have had fish tanks since I was 12 years old.
I have had sal****er tanks, sal****er reef tanks and have a 45 gal.
freshwater tank that I had since 1986.
So I'm familiar with Ickthology .
But can't quote or spell to well.

>Please use an ammonia and nitrite kit to make >sure they don't surge
and kill all your fish.

I set it up the same way last year with no problems.
I don't have the money for test kits that I use once.
I can tell if something is wrong by their behavior But, thank's, I'll
take water samples down to my local aquarium for testing, good point.

>I start feeding mine when the water gets over >50 F or so.

I read that 55 to 60 at night time temps.
Not feeding will also keep the Ammo down for a week or 2 till the cycle
is complete.
The water is now crystal clear, 8 hours later.
When I posted newbie, I meant to the group not the hobby.
Thank's for all you help.

Pete : )
--
Koi-Lo.... the ReelMcKoi
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at:
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
~~~**}<((((o>**~~~***}<{{{{o>***~~~***}<(((((o

[Koi-Lo]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...

Re: Newbie Spring Start Up

Group: rec.ponds Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2006, 9:17pm (EDT-1) From:
(Koi-Lo) wrote:
>>
A koi in a 60g pond? You do realize healthy koi grow rapidly and can
reach 2 1/2 to 3 feet long. One koi needs at least 125 to 150g itself.
Healthy outdoor goldfish can reach almost a foot long and need 20g or
more per fish.

Well, I think it's not a koi then, it might be a big gold fish
It has barbels though.

If it has barbels it is a koi. :-)

I got the fish last year and it didn't get any bigger then it is now (4
or 5 inches).
>>

Then something is wrong as they grow rapidly when young and well fed and
kept in clean water.

>The stuff on the liner is the necessary bacteria >that converts deadly
ammonia and nitrites to >nitrates. It's not a good idea to remove it.

I know all about cycles and all.
I have had fish tanks since I was 12 years old.
I have had sal****er tanks, sal****er reef tanks and have a 45 gal.
freshwater tank that I had since 1986.
So I'm familiar with Ickthology .
But can't quote or spell to well.

>Please use an ammonia and nitrite kit to make >sure they don't surge
and kill all your fish.

I set it up the same way last year with no problems.
I don't have the money for test kits that I use once.
I can tell if something is wrong by their behavior But, thank's, I'll
take water samples down to my local aquarium for testing, good point.

>I start feeding mine when the water gets over >50 F or so.

I read that 55 to 60 at night time temps.

I'm not out there at night so don't know how much it drops after sundown. I
check around noon. If the temp is over 50 and they're begging I feed them.
They have all day to digest it before sundown. So far so good.

Not feeding will also keep the Ammo down for a week or 2 till the cycle
is complete.

I wont starve my fish that long. I do feed lightly in new setups.

The water is now crystal clear, 8 hours later.
When I posted newbie, I meant to the group not the hobby.
Thank's for all you help.

Pete : )

You better buy a sharp shovel and a liner if you plan to keep that koi.
:-))

--
Koi-Lo.... the ReelMcKoi
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at:
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o

[~ janj]

>I have had fish tanks since I was 12 years old.

Saying the following with a <Big Grin>
"But Pete, you didn't tell us how old you are currently, so the above isn't
telling us much." :o) ~ jan

-----------------
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[CanadianPonder©]

Peter Smith wrote:
> I just cleaned out my 60 gal. kidney shaped pond.
> I have about 6, 3 inch comets and 1, 5 inch speckled koi and 1, 4 inch
> frog.
>
> I put the the fish and frog in a 20 gal tub, with water from the pond
> from over the winter.
> Coved it up with mesh. Put a air bubblier hose in.
> I scrubbed and drained the muck out. I got the black pond liner nice and
> clean.
> I put 40 gals. of fresh, new water in, then added almost the rest of the
> water from the tub back in.
> I added pond-zime to the dose, in. I added 16oz. of aquarium salt and
> stress coat to the dose.
> I cleaned the 1000 gal.ph fishmate box filter out and hooked up to the
> 90 gal.ph beckett pump.
> I pulled the plant pot, that's starting to sprout from the bottom and
> put it on the first level.
> I netted the fish and frog back in.
> The water is a little cloudy, but it looks fine.
>
> I live in mid PA, so the water is around 52 degrees. No feeding till it
> gets up around 55-60 at night.
>
> So, How do you think I did?
>
> This is the 2nd year for the pond.
> Thank's
> Waiting to hear from you all. : )
> Pete
>

As a semi newbie myself this is what I do (and did this last Sunday)

1) drained 75% of pond and cleaned as much "guck" from the bottom as
possible. ***(see question below)
2) started up the bio filter (which runs through the waterfall with
watercress).
3) started the other pumps ( spitter and mushroom fountain )
4) will add lilies and hyacinth when the local pond shop gets them at
the end of the month.

I have never added chemicals or tested the water. I have never lost a
fish from water quality (only from critters). As long as I have success
I will refuse to add all this "stuff" that is out there.

The water is crystal clear throughout the summer and only during hot
spells do I get a little algae growing.

*** How much "guck/particles" should I clean ?
I have this great pool vac that sucks dirt from the bottom but I am
afraid of sucking up the "good stuff" that is needed for a healthy pond
balance.

I am a firm believer that ponds eventually balance themselves and don't
need all these added chemicals. Especially when it comes to goldfish
which are a lot hardier than the tropical fish I keep in my aquarium.

[Peter Smith]

I'm 47.
If I have to pull him, I'll bring him back to the place I got him. he
jumped out last year and I found him down on the bank of the hill
flopping around, don't know how long he was out of the water.
I put him back in and he was fine.

I checked the pond this morning and everyone is fine and the water is
clear.

I came home from work last year and found a snake in there. The snake
had the frog around it's neck. I pulled the the snake up and the frog
fell back into the water. He is fine as well.

Is their anyway to keep predators away?

The pet shop said the potted plant and some of the old water will have
some of the bacteria to help the cycle.
Keep ya posted and Thank's

Pete

[~ janj]

>I'm 47.>Pete

That's awhile, I'm not too worried about ya than. You know what to watch
for, and if something goes awry, you know where to come. ;) ~ jan
--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[~ janj]

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:51:40 GMT, CanadianPonder© >
wrote:

>I have never added chemicals or tested the water.

Am putting your name on the "may have to eat words" list. :o)

>*** How much "guck/particles" should I clean ?

You can suck the bottom clean, any bacteria there is usually covered with
mulm and goes anaerobic. Exception would be if there is green fuzz algae
(like grass) growing, then I wouldn't bother it. ~ jan

-----------------
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Koi-Lo]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...
> I'm 47.
> If I have to pull him, I'll bring him back to the place I got him. he
> jumped out last year and I found him down on the bank of the hill
> flopping around, don't know how long he was out of the water.
> I put him back in and he was fine.
>
> I checked the pond this morning and everyone is fine and the water is
> clear.
>
> I came home from work last year and found a snake in there. The snake
> had the frog around it's neck. I pulled the the snake up and the frog
> fell back into the water. He is fine as well.

Snakes will also eat your fish. I lost many fish to snakes, bullfrogs,
herons and kingfisher before netting all my ponds and pools. Once a snake
knows there is food in a pond it will keep coming back until nothing is
left. As far as I know any water snake that eats frogs also eats fish.

> Is their anyway to keep predators away?

Some people recommend those motion sensor sprinklers or water shooters but
they are useless against snapper turtles, bullfrogs, kingfishers and
snakes - all fish eaters. If I didn't have nets over everything here I
wouldn't have one fish left.

> The pet shop said the potted plant and some of the old water will have
> some of the bacteria to help the cycle.
> Keep ya posted and Thank's

This is true. :-)

> Pete
>
--
Koi-Lo.... the ReelMcKoi
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at:
http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"CanadianPonder©" > wrote in message
...
> *** How much "guck/particles" should I clean ?
> I have this great pool vac that sucks dirt from the bottom but I am afraid
> of sucking up the "good stuff" that is needed for a healthy pond balance.

We remove it ALL, hose the sides and suck it out with a shop-vac.

> I am a firm believer that ponds eventually balance themselves and don't
> need all these added chemicals.

I'm with you on this. Businesses are going to sell you as much as they can.
They want you money. Ever read a health website? They'll have you
convinced you're going to drop dead in days if you don't purchase all their
cell-salts, vitamin-mineral mixes, colloidal silver cures, parasite zappers,
colonic cleaning potions, herbs... :-)))

Especially when it comes to goldfish
> which are a lot hardier than the tropical fish I keep in my aquarium.


--
Koi-Lo.... the ReelMcKoi
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Peter Smith]

A couple of questions:
The water is up around 57 degrees and I fed them a little bit.
I used the Tetra Pond verity blend.
How many sticks should I feed a 5 inch koi?
How many times a day?
What time is best?

They took it rite away. They must be hungry after not eating all winter.
Thank's
Pete

[Koi-Lo]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...
>A couple of questions:
> The water is up around 57 degrees and I fed them a little bit.
> I used the Tetra Pond verity blend.
> How many sticks should I feed a 5 inch koi?
> How many times a day?
> What time is best?

I don't use those sticks so can't say. I stand there and toss food in until
I can see they have all they want. I go by how they act. Mine are eating
once a day now except when the water is over 60F, in which case I'll give
them another light feeding around dinnertime. I'll start feeding them twice
a day, every day when the water stays above 60F. There shouldn't be any
leftovers floating around when you walk away from the pond.

> They took it rite away. They must be hungry after not eating all winter.
> Thank's
> Pete

They sure are. Mine are ravenous.
--
Koi-Lo.... the ReelMcKoi
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~ janj]

>"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
>>A couple of questions:
>> The water is up around 57 degrees and I fed them a little bit.
>> I used the Tetra Pond verity blend.
>> How many sticks should I feed a 5 inch koi?
>> How many times a day?
>> What time is best?

Water in the 50's feed 2-3 times/week once/day.
Water in the 60's feed every day 1-2x/day.
Water in the 70's feed 2-5x/day (this depends on how much you're feeding
each time. I can feed more often because I only feed what they'll eat in
about a minute. If following the 5 minute rule I wouldn't feed more than
2-3 times/day.)
Water above 85*F don't feed. At this temp your filter is not working at
optimum. ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Peter Smith]

What brand food do you use?
I usually on feed fish once a day.
I do the same with my aquarium.
Over feeding is something I learned not to do over the years.

Why do you feed more around 70° ?
I can see not feeding around 85°

How would I go about feeding my frog?
Or should I let him fend for himself.
Sometimes I find (Herman), my frog on the rim on the outside of the
pond.
Do they have to get out to eat?
I made the rocks on the rim a little higher then last year.
Should I make it lower like last year?
I'd say it's about 4 or 5 inches high all around.
He looks exactly like the frog on the left at the top of koi-lo's home
page. What kind of frog is it?

koi-lo and ~janj , nice webpages!
Thank's
Pete

[Koi-Lo]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...
What brand food do you use?
I usually on feed fish once a day.
I do the same with my aquarium.
Over feeding is something I learned not to do over the years.

Overfeeding is when you feed so much the fish can't eat it all and it
decomposes in the water. Not a good thing to do.

Why do you feed more around 70° ?
I can see not feeding around 85°

Mine get fed even when the water is in the 90s without a problem. Some of
us live in areas of hot summers.

How would I go about feeding my frog?
Or should I let him fend for himself.
Sometimes I find (Herman), my frog on the rim on the outside of the
pond.
Do they have to get out to eat?
I made the rocks on the rim a little higher then last year.
Should I make it lower like last year?

Frogs can take care of their own food needs. :-) Some will even eat your
fish.

I'd say it's about 4 or 5 inches high all around.
He looks exactly like the frog on the left at the top of koi-lo's home
page. What kind of frog is it?

That's a BULLFROG and they eat fish, birds, anything they can cram down
their throats with the help of both front feet.

koi-lo and ~janj , nice webpages!

Thank you.

Thank's
Pete
--
Koi-Lo.... the ReelMcKoi
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~ janj]

>What brand food do you use?

I feed Shokoi, Manda Fu and sometimes HyFeng (spelling?).

>I usually on feed fish once a day.

That's fine too. I was thinking more along the lines of a koi pond, where
we're wanting growth.

>Why do you feed more around 70° ?

That's the optimum temp when fish are active and filter is running at its
best.

>How would I go about feeding my frog? >Pete

Frogs fend for themselves, self feeding, ah, the best pet. :o) As long as
he can get out of the pond, sides should be no problem. ~ jan


-----------------
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Peter Smith]

I put up a small little white pickett fence today on the back side of
the pond. It looks cool!

How could obtain lilly pads cheaply?
The place I go too wants to much :o)
Do lilly pads tolerate salt?
Are their any cheap alternatives, like house plants in pots that can be
submerged to water level?
The problem is when I put floating plants in, they always end up under
the waterfall and keep churning upside down.
I need more plants in and around the outside.

I have a nice potted plant that I got last year.
It's in the house rite now in a 3 gal fish tank with a filter.
It did great all winter, I kept cutting it back.
I've haven't put it back in yet. I'm waiting for the temps. outside to
get a little warmer.
Can anyone tell me the name of it?
The leaves are like Pacasandra ground cover with little yellow mum like
flowers. Or like (melapodem) spelling?
I'll try to post a link to what melapodem looks like.

Thank's
Pete

[Peter Smith]

This is the plant it looks like.
I hope this works:
Melampodium:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~oliver/0704melampodium3.jpg

thank's
Pete

[~ janj]

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:02:20 -0400, (Peter Smith) wrote:

>This is the plant it looks like.
>I hope this works:
>Melampodium:
>
>http://home.hiwaay.net/~oliver/0704melampodium3.jpg
>
>thank's
>Pete

Marsh Marigold?
http://www.wiseacre-gardens.com/plants/wildflower/marshmarigold.html ~ jan

-----------------
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[~ janj]

>On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:49:45 -0400, (Peter Smith) wrote:

>Are their any cheap alternatives, like house plants in pots that can be
>submerged to water level?

Check your local grocer for watercress, you can tuck it under the rocks at
the edge, it will soon grow roots. ~ jan

-----------------
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

[Koi-Lo]

"Peter Smith" > wrote in message
...
>I put up a small little white pickett fence today on the back side of
> the pond. It looks cool!
>
> How could obtain lilly pads cheaply?

Wal*Mart has them now for under $6 each.

> The place I go too wants to much :o)
> Do lilly pads tolerate salt?

I can't answer that one as I don't use salt in my ponds.

> Are their any cheap alternatives, like house plants in pots that can be
> submerged to water level?

Peace Lilly will work. If you join a local pond club you'll get more free
plants than you can use.

> The problem is when I put floating plants in, they always end up under
> the waterfall and keep churning upside down.
> I need more plants in and around the outside.
>
> I have a nice potted plant that I got last year.
> It's in the house rite now in a 3 gal fish tank with a filter.
> It did great all winter, I kept cutting it back.
> I've haven't put it back in yet. I'm waiting for the temps. outside to
> get a little warmer.
> Can anyone tell me the name of it?
> The leaves are like Pacasandra ground cover with little yellow mum like
> flowers. Or like (melapodem) spelling?
> I'll try to post a link to what melapodem looks like.

??
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria Groups.*
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>