Pimafix/Melafix - more anecdotal stuff

[Gill Passman]

Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not
having had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was
quite incredible....

I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day
and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares
the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped -
I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.

I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)

Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...

Gill

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:23:42 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
>debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not
>having had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was
>quite incredible....
>
>I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
>tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
>fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day
>and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares
>the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped -
>I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>
>I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
>hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
>is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>
>Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
>
>Gill

Thanks, Gill, for adding your experience with these products to the
growing number of fishkeepers who have discovered that, even though
the effectiveness of these additives are poorly understood and hotly
debated, they have worked for you, in this single case, as the label
promises. There are probably as many stories of them not working. But
the same can be said about many traditional fish remedies. I've been
using the Mela/Pima combo as a first line treatment when I am looking
at a fish ailment that has not evolved enough for me to make a
positive diagnosis, and especially when I see fungal and/or fin
problems. Your anecdote is one more assurance that I am not crazy when
I say that I believe this stuff works. It's not state of the art
medication, but neither is it snake oil.

I can't get the API home page to load at the moment, but good
descriptions of these additives can be found at:
http://www.aquariumguys.com/melafix16oz.html
and
http://www.aquariumguys.com/pimafix16oz.html

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:23:42 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>>Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
>>debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not
>>having had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was
>>quite incredible....
>>
>>I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
>>tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
>>fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day
>>and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares
>>the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped -
>>I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>
>>I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>>Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
>>hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>>continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
>>is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>
>>Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled"
>>test...
>>
>>Gill
>
> Thanks, Gill, for adding your experience with these products to the
> growing number of fishkeepers who have discovered that, even though
> the effectiveness of these additives are poorly understood and hotly
> debated, they have worked for you, in this single case, as the label
> promises. There are probably as many stories of them not working. But
> the same can be said about many traditional fish remedies. I've been
> using the Mela/Pima combo as a first line treatment when I am looking
> at a fish ailment that has not evolved enough for me to make a
> positive diagnosis, and especially when I see fungal and/or fin
> problems. Your anecdote is one more assurance that I am not crazy when
> I say that I believe this stuff works. It's not state of the art
> medication, but neither is it snake oil.
>
> I can't get the API home page to load at the moment, but good
> descriptions of these additives can be found at:
> http://www.aquariumguys.com/melafix16oz.html
> and
> http://www.aquariumguys.com/pimafix16oz.html
>
> -- Mister Gardener
>
> Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
> http://www.thekrib.com/


2 cents, it has helped my betta who was almost dead & bald, he looks like a
normal betta flowing tail in all...
just a side note, betta fix they sell at most stores is melafix just in a
lower dose. i think as far as bettas go it works well for their tails.
Nik

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of mixing
> the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
===========
That's good news Gill, I wish it had worked on the calico lionhead's ulcers.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:52:21 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of mixing
>> the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
>===========
>That's good news Gill, I wish it had worked on the calico lionhead's ulcers.

Did you use Mela and Pima together and did you do the full 7-10 day
treatment and did I ask you this before?

-- Mister Gardener

For Killfile FAQs visit
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:52:21 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>>> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>> mixing
>>> the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
>>===========
>>That's good news Gill, I wish it had worked on the calico lionhead's
>>ulcers.
>
> Did you use Mela and Pima together and did you do the full 7-10 day
> treatment and did I ask you this before?
>
> -- Mister Gardener
=====================
I didn't use Pima because there was no sign of fungus infection and it would
have been another $8. On the fourth day of Mela treatment the ulcers had
spread so fast and so far I didn't have time to treat them 7 to 10 days. On
the second day the 3rd GF started an ulcer on it's chin *while in the Mela
water*, on the second day that ulcer doubled in size. As far as I know
there is nothing that cures or heals these contagious ulcers. I had one koi
survive an ulcer with Koi-Zyme several years back. She healed and I still
have her. It did nothing for the ulcer the first GF came up with. That's
why I switched to Mela. I read the website and cleaned the ulcers with
Peroxide, then used an antibiotic cream and they continued to spread like
wildfire. They were doomed as far as I could see. The ulcer on the first
fish was down into the muscle tissues of it's tail already....... and yes I
did salt the tank when I spotted the 1st ulcer starting.

Oddly enough the fish with the deformed mouth didn't catch the disease from
them and is fine. I didn't know about the ulcers until after she was in
with them to be watched closer. She was immediately covered with ICK
whereas the lionheads with their ulcers showed total immunity to ICK. The
salt and Quick-Cure got rid of the ick but it took over a week at 82F.

I may be imagining things but I believe I see these diseases are becoming
hotter and more immune to what we use to treat them with.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:51:40 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:52:21 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>>> mixing
>>>> the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
>>>===========
>>>That's good news Gill, I wish it had worked on the calico lionhead's
>>>ulcers.
>>
>> Did you use Mela and Pima together and did you do the full 7-10 day
>> treatment and did I ask you this before?
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>=====================
>I didn't use Pima because there was no sign of fungus infection and it would
>have been another $8. On the fourth day of Mela treatment the ulcers had
>spread so fast and so far I didn't have time to treat them 7 to 10 days. On
>the second day the 3rd GF started an ulcer on it's chin *while in the Mela
>water*, on the second day that ulcer doubled in size. As far as I know
>there is nothing that cures or heals these contagious ulcers. I had one koi
>survive an ulcer with Koi-Zyme several years back. She healed and I still
>have her. It did nothing for the ulcer the first GF came up with. That's
>why I switched to Mela. I read the website and cleaned the ulcers with
>Peroxide, then used an antibiotic cream and they continued to spread like
>wildfire. They were doomed as far as I could see. The ulcer on the first
>fish was down into the muscle tissues of it's tail already....... and yes I
>did salt the tank when I spotted the 1st ulcer starting.
>
>Oddly enough the fish with the deformed mouth didn't catch the disease from
>them and is fine. I didn't know about the ulcers until after she was in
>with them to be watched closer. She was immediately covered with ICK
>whereas the lionheads with their ulcers showed total immunity to ICK. The
>salt and Quick-Cure got rid of the ick but it took over a week at 82F.
>
>I may be imagining things but I believe I see these diseases are becoming
>hotter and more immune to what we use to treat them with.

Your fish had problems that are way out of Mela/Pima territory, I dare
say. Goldfish get weird diseases. Is it OK to say "goldfish" when
referring to all those orange and white and black carps, or are Koi
something different? (picture of face eager to learn politically
correct terminology for all those carpy fishes goes here)

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/
For Killfile FAQs visit
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[fish lover]

What's the dosage of combing these two?

Thanks

>On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:23:42 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>
>>Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
>>debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not
>>having had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was
>>quite incredible....
>>
>>I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
>>tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
>>fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day
>>and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares
>>the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped -
>>I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>
>>I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>>Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
>>hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>>continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
>>is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>
>>Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
>>
>>Gill
>
>Thanks, Gill, for adding your experience with these products to the
>growing number of fishkeepers who have discovered that, even though
>the effectiveness of these additives are poorly understood and hotly
>debated, they have worked for you, in this single case, as the label
>promises. There are probably as many stories of them not working. But
>the same can be said about many traditional fish remedies. I've been
>using the Mela/Pima combo as a first line treatment when I am looking
>at a fish ailment that has not evolved enough for me to make a
>positive diagnosis, and especially when I see fungal and/or fin
>problems. Your anecdote is one more assurance that I am not crazy when
>I say that I believe this stuff works. It's not state of the art
>medication, but neither is it snake oil.
>
>I can't get the API home page to load at the moment, but good
>descriptions of these additives can be found at:
>http://www.aquariumguys.com/melafix16oz.html
>and
>http://www.aquariumguys.com/pimafix16oz.html
>
>-- Mister Gardener
>
>Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
>http://www.thekrib.com/

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:51:40 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:52:21 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>> wrote:
>>I may be imagining things but I believe I see these diseases are becoming
>>hotter and more immune to what we use to treat them with.
=============

> Your fish had problems that are way out of Mela/Pima territory, I dare
> say.

I agree. You must have heard of that human bacterial "flesh eating"
infection where they have to amputate parts of hands or feet because no
antibiotic can stop it. I believe these contagious ulcers in koi and GF are
the same. I have no idea how the little gold telescope-eye resisted when
she was covered in ICK, but she is fine and has been moved outside with a
few other GF that were culled from the show tanks (a bubble-eye GF with one
bubble and a Oranda with an odd shaped tail). The three have a 150g pool to
themselves - so far.

Goldfish get weird diseases. Is it OK to say "goldfish" when
> referring to all those orange and white and black carps, or are Koi
> something different?

Koi are related but different. Both suffer the same diseases and parasites.

(picture of face eager to learn politically
> correct terminology for all those carpy fishes goes here)
>
> -- Mister Gardener

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:33:14 -0400, fish lover >
wrote:

>What's the dosage of combing these two?
>
>Thanks

Melafix: Instructions:
Remove activated carbon from filter, if possible. Add 1 tsp for every
10 gallons of water. Repeat daily for 7 days followed by a 25% water
change. Treatment can be continued if necessary

Pimafix: Instructions:
Shake well before each use. For best results remove carbon during
treatment.As a disease treatment: add 1 teaspoon for every 10 U.S.
gallons of aquarium water. Repeat dose daily for 7 days. After 7 days
make a 25% water change. Treatment may be continued, if necessary.In
sal****er aquariums: it may be necessary to turn off the protein
skimmer while treating with this item. In aquariums with no filter, a
slight haze may form. Make a 25% water change, if necessary.

More info at
>>http://www.aquariumguys.com/melafix16oz.html
>>and
>>http://www.aquariumguys.com/pimafix16oz.html

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/
For Killfile FAQs visit
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[Mariachi]

This is most helpful information, my friend was just telling me today
how good melafix is. I was planning on going to get some tomorrow. So
maybe I'll pick up some Pimafix to. Does anyone know how these meds
affect crayfish? Should cause a problem should it?

[Mister Gardener]

On 15 Apr 2006 05:10:34 -0700, "Mariachi" > wrote:

>This is most helpful information, my friend was just telling me today
>how good melafix is. I was planning on going to get some tomorrow. So
>maybe I'll pick up some Pimafix to. Does anyone know how these meds
>affect crayfish? Should cause a problem should it?

Be prepared for sticker shock. Buy the largest size you can afford. If
you apply the dosing directions to your target tank, you'll find that
a little 4 ounce bottle isn't going to make it through a single full
treatment. Figure out how many ounces you will need before going to
the store. It is also sold in a highly concentrated solution for ponds
and monster tanks. And keep in mind that controlled studies are hard
to find, there are a couple out there on the web somewhere, maybe
someone else has some URLs, and the manufacturer's home page has very
little information. But, as you see, there are an increasing number of
people who are having a good experience with the stuff, and there are
people who say it is snake oil. No promises, but I add my name to the
"it worked for me" category. I have no idea how it might affect
crayfish - my hunch is it should be fine, as we haven't found anything
yet that it is not compatible with. YMMV.

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On 15 Apr 2006 05:10:34 -0700, "Mariachi" > wrote:
>
>>This is most helpful information, my friend was just telling me today
>>how good melafix is. I was planning on going to get some tomorrow. So
>>maybe I'll pick up some Pimafix to. Does anyone know how these meds
>>affect crayfish? Should cause a problem should it?
>
> Be prepared for sticker shock. Buy the largest size you can afford. If
> you apply the dosing directions to your target tank, you'll find that
> a little 4 ounce bottle isn't going to make it through a single full
> treatment. Figure out how many ounces you will need before going to
> the store. It is also sold in a highly concentrated solution for ponds
> and monster tanks. And keep in mind that controlled studies are hard
> to find, there are a couple out there on the web somewhere, maybe
> someone else has some URLs, and the manufacturer's home page has very
> little information. But, as you see, there are an increasing number of
> people who are having a good experience with the stuff, and there are
> people who say it is snake oil. No promises, but I add my name to the
> "it worked for me" category. I have no idea how it might affect
> crayfish - my hunch is it should be fine, as we haven't found anything
> yet that it is not compatible with. YMMV.
>
> -- Mister Gardener
>
> Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
> http://www.thekrib.com/

I use the pond melafix and i think price wise its better, i looked at the
reg bottle and you get a lot more use out of the pond bottle for your money,
but either way it is expensive. i had to use it in a small tank for the
betta and i use a dropper to get the right dose, and it my 30-40 gl i go by
tsp's. It all works out the same i think.
Nik
It worked well for me with fin damage and rot, i also used it on a GF who
had a fin stuck to his side and he is now doing much better.

[fish lover]

Thanks.
I did the dosage on my 125 g tank(ouch, big price!) and my discus did
not like it. They all turned dark and I'm watching them carefully
today. If they start to have problems, I will do a 90% water change
right away. I hope it kills whatever things that made their fin tip
roting, not the discus! I'm not sure if they can take another dosage
or not!

>On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:33:14 -0400, fish lover >
>wrote:
>
>>What's the dosage of combing these two?
>>
>>Thanks
>
>Melafix: Instructions:
>Remove activated carbon from filter, if possible. Add 1 tsp for every
>10 gallons of water. Repeat daily for 7 days followed by a 25% water
>change. Treatment can be continued if necessary
>
>Pimafix: Instructions:
>Shake well before each use. For best results remove carbon during
>treatment.As a disease treatment: add 1 teaspoon for every 10 U.S.
>gallons of aquarium water. Repeat dose daily for 7 days. After 7 days
>make a 25% water change. Treatment may be continued, if necessary.In
>sal****er aquariums: it may be necessary to turn off the protein
>skimmer while treating with this item. In aquariums with no filter, a
>slight haze may form. Make a 25% water change, if necessary.
>
>More info at
>>>http://www.aquariumguys.com/melafix16oz.html
>>>and
>>>http://www.aquariumguys.com/pimafix16oz.html
>
>-- Mister Gardener
>
>Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
>http://www.thekrib.com/
>For Killfile FAQs visit
>http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[Mariachi]

I've been reading some archived stuff regarding melafix/pimafix and
from what i could gather other people with discus all said that the
discus DID NOT LIKE IT! Hope that helps.

I also found CanadianCray mention in one thread that she(he?) has used
both melafix and pimafix with her crays and shrimps if anyone else out
there is interested.

[Mister Gardener]

On 15 Apr 2006 15:37:27 -0700, "Mariachi" > wrote:

>I've been reading some archived stuff regarding melafix/pimafix and
>from what i could gather other people with discus all said that the
>discus DID NOT LIKE IT! Hope that helps.
>
>I also found CanadianCray mention in one thread that she(he?) has used
>both melafix and pimafix with her crays and shrimps if anyone else out
>there is interested.

Much appreciated, thanks for taking the time. It seems odd to me that
a Usenet newsgroup has put more information together about these
products than can be found on the manufacturer's hope page. But that's
probably true with a lot of products.

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/
For Killfile FAQs visit
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[swarvegorilla]

www.koivet.com

Lotsa filthy diseases for ya
:-)

[Mister Gardener]

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:55:16 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>www.koivet.com
>
>Lotsa filthy diseases for ya
>:-)
>
I believe you were referring to the Medications index on that page,
I've added the direct link to the Melafix article.
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=104&category=13&name=Medications

The study cited used Melafix only, and determined Melafix has zero
bacteriocidal action. Too bad they didn't follow this study with
another using Melafix and Pimafix together, as the manufacturer's blah
blah seems to emphasize the bacteriocidal effects of Pima. As far as
the other properties, the study cites some pretty impressive outcomes
with Melafix alone, including a suggestion to use it for recently
handled store bought fish. I am not ready to routinely Melafix my new
fish, but maybe it's worth a shot in my ten gallon QT.

You've also reminded me to return to that web site soon, I've surfed
through it before and it looks like a place that is worth spending
some time, even though I am a tropical, not gold, keeper.

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/

[Altum]

Mister Gardener wrote:

> The study cited used Melafix only, and determined Melafix has zero
> bacteriocidal action. Too bad they didn't follow this study with
> another using Melafix and Pimafix together, as the manufacturer's blah
> blah seems to emphasize the bacteriocidal effects of Pima. As far as
> the other properties, the study cites some pretty impressive outcomes
> with Melafix alone, including a suggestion to use it for recently
> handled store bought fish. I am not ready to routinely Melafix my new
> fish, but maybe it's worth a shot in my ten gallon QT.

Pity he didn't test PimaFix. Methyleugenol is a very effective
bactericide at high concentrations. The main question is whether it's
effective at the 1-2 ppm PimaFix concentration.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
> debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not
> having had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was
> quite incredible....
>
> I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
> tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
> fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day
> and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares
> the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped -
> I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>
> I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
> Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
> hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
> continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
> is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>
> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
> mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
>
> Gill

Well the dosing with Melafix/Pimafix got rid of the fungus and stopped
the shredding but sadly I think that there is an underlying cause that
made Boris the betta succumb to these symptoms.

He is not a happy fish today....he is very top heavy - I would say he
has a "pine cone" effect in the top half of his body - sigh....I'll try
treating for constipation if I can get him to eat (he didn't this
morning)...

Gill

[swarvegorilla]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
> Mister Gardener wrote:
>
>> The study cited used Melafix only, and determined Melafix has zero
>> bacteriocidal action. Too bad they didn't follow this study with
>> another using Melafix and Pimafix together, as the manufacturer's blah
>> blah seems to emphasize the bacteriocidal effects of Pima. As far as
>> the other properties, the study cites some pretty impressive outcomes
>> with Melafix alone, including a suggestion to use it for recently
>> handled store bought fish. I am not ready to routinely Melafix my new
>> fish, but maybe it's worth a shot in my ten gallon QT.
>
> Pity he didn't test PimaFix. Methyleugenol is a very effective
> bactericide at high concentrations. The main question is whether it's
> effective at the 1-2 ppm PimaFix concentration.
>
> --
> Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Doesn't hurt to make up a bottle of homebrew melapima magik brewski.
Certainly seems to help cichlids patch back up.
But would be careful on which fish ya use on.
Some fish don't like melafix at all

[Mister Gardener]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:47:46 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>
>"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
>> Mister Gardener wrote:
>>
>>> The study cited used Melafix only, and determined Melafix has zero
>>> bacteriocidal action. Too bad they didn't follow this study with
>>> another using Melafix and Pimafix together, as the manufacturer's blah
>>> blah seems to emphasize the bacteriocidal effects of Pima. As far as
>>> the other properties, the study cites some pretty impressive outcomes
>>> with Melafix alone, including a suggestion to use it for recently
>>> handled store bought fish. I am not ready to routinely Melafix my new
>>> fish, but maybe it's worth a shot in my ten gallon QT.
>>
>> Pity he didn't test PimaFix. Methyleugenol is a very effective
>> bactericide at high concentrations. The main question is whether it's
>> effective at the 1-2 ppm PimaFix concentration.
>>
>> --
>> Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
>> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>Doesn't hurt to make up a bottle of homebrew melapima magik brewski.
>Certainly seems to help cichlids patch back up.
>But would be careful on which fish ya use on.
>Some fish don't like melafix at all
>
This is another area where information from the manufacturer is sadly
lacking, but that's OK, we know that sometimes personal experience is
more accurate than the label on the bottle. So far, I think we've
heard from two discus people who won't use the stuff on their fish
again. I can't think of any others for the proposed black list at the
moment, but I'm certain our info sources will add to the list in time.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:26:13 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Gill Passman wrote:
>> Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
>> debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not
>> having had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was
>> quite incredible....
>>
>> I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
>> tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
>> fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day
>> and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares
>> the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped -
>> I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>
>> I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>> Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
>> hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>> continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
>> is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>
>> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>> mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled" test...
>>
>> Gill
>
>Well the dosing with Melafix/Pimafix got rid of the fungus and stopped
>the shredding but sadly I think that there is an underlying cause that
>made Boris the betta succumb to these symptoms.
>
>He is not a happy fish today....he is very top heavy - I would say he
>has a "pine cone" effect in the top half of his body - sigh....I'll try
>treating for constipation if I can get him to eat (he didn't this
>morning)...
>
>Gill

Bummer.

-- Mister Gardener

[Nikki]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Gill Passman wrote:
>> Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
>> debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not having
>> had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was quite
>> incredible....
>>
>> I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his tail
>> was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white fluffy
>> stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day and am
>> quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares the
>> tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped - I
>> don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>
>> I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>> Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
>> hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>> continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
>> is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>
>> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>> mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled"
>> test...
>>
>> Gill
>
> Well the dosing with Melafix/Pimafix got rid of the fungus and stopped the
> shredding but sadly I think that there is an underlying cause that made
> Boris the betta succumb to these symptoms.
>
> He is not a happy fish today....he is very top heavy - I would say he has
> a "pine cone" effect in the top half of his body - sigh....I'll try
> treating for constipation if I can get him to eat (he didn't this
> morning)...
>
> Gill

Gill, i did not use the pimafix but did use the melafix after using
antifungus for rot, and it worked good.
If you think he is constipated did you try epsom salt? i had to do that once
and it worked well.
Nik

[Gill Passman]

Nikki wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>>Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
>>>debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not having
>>>had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was quite
>>>incredible....
>>>
>>>I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his tail
>>>was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white fluffy
>>>stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day and am
>>>quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares the
>>>tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped - I
>>>don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>>
>>>I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>>>Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
>>>hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>>>continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
>>>is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>>
>>>Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>>mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled"
>>>test...
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>Well the dosing with Melafix/Pimafix got rid of the fungus and stopped the
>>shredding but sadly I think that there is an underlying cause that made
>>Boris the betta succumb to these symptoms.
>>
>>He is not a happy fish today....he is very top heavy - I would say he has
>>a "pine cone" effect in the top half of his body - sigh....I'll try
>>treating for constipation if I can get him to eat (he didn't this
>>morning)...
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> Gill, i did not use the pimafix but did use the melafix after using
> antifungus for rot, and it worked good.
> If you think he is constipated did you try epsom salt? i had to do that once
> and it worked well.
> Nik
>
>
Thanks Nikki, I'll try and get some today. He is getting worse :-( The
only other thing niggling is whether this is a reaction to the
Melafix/Pimafix - will be doing some water changes today on his tank and
see if that improves anything as well

Gill

[Gill Passman]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Nikki wrote:
>
>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the
>>>> big debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before
>>>> not having had much success with Melafix but what happened last
>>>> night was quite incredible....
>>>>
>>>> I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
>>>> tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
>>>> fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the
>>>> day and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently.
>>>> He shares the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have
>>>> been nipped - I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>>>
>>>> I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>>>> Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within
>>>> an hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>>>> continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any
>>>> worse. He is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>>>
>>>> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>>> mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled"
>>>> test...
>>>>
>>>> Gill
>>>
>>>
>>> Well the dosing with Melafix/Pimafix got rid of the fungus and
>>> stopped the shredding but sadly I think that there is an underlying
>>> cause that made Boris the betta succumb to these symptoms.
>>>
>>> He is not a happy fish today....he is very top heavy - I would say he
>>> has a "pine cone" effect in the top half of his body - sigh....I'll
>>> try treating for constipation if I can get him to eat (he didn't this
>>> morning)...
>>>
>>> Gill
>>
>>
>>
>> Gill, i did not use the pimafix but did use the melafix after using
>> antifungus for rot, and it worked good.
>> If you think he is constipated did you try epsom salt? i had to do
>> that once and it worked well.
>> Nik
>>
>>
> Thanks Nikki, I'll try and get some today. He is getting worse :-( The
> only other thing niggling is whether this is a reaction to the
> Melafix/Pimafix - will be doing some water changes today on his tank and
> see if that improves anything as well
>
> Gill

Too late....I just lost Boris :-(

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:34:00 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Nikki wrote:
>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>
>>>>Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the big
>>>>debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not having
>>>>had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was quite
>>>>incredible....
>>>>
>>>>I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his tail
>>>>was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white fluffy
>>>>stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day and am
>>>>quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He shares the
>>>>tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been nipped - I
>>>>don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>>>
>>>>I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>>>>Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within an
>>>>hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>>>>continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse. He
>>>>is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>>>
>>>>Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>>>mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled"
>>>>test...
>>>>
>>>>Gill
>>>
>>>Well the dosing with Melafix/Pimafix got rid of the fungus and stopped the
>>>shredding but sadly I think that there is an underlying cause that made
>>>Boris the betta succumb to these symptoms.
>>>
>>>He is not a happy fish today....he is very top heavy - I would say he has
>>>a "pine cone" effect in the top half of his body - sigh....I'll try
>>>treating for constipation if I can get him to eat (he didn't this
>>>morning)...
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>
>> Gill, i did not use the pimafix but did use the melafix after using
>> antifungus for rot, and it worked good.
>> If you think he is constipated did you try epsom salt? i had to do that once
>> and it worked well.
>> Nik
>>
>>
>Thanks Nikki, I'll try and get some today. He is getting worse :-( The
>only other thing niggling is whether this is a reaction to the
>Melafix/Pimafix - will be doing some water changes today on his tank and
>see if that improves anything as well
>
>Gill
It appears that the Mela/Pima did its thing well, getting rid of the
fungus and stopping the shredding. Rather than turn and blame the
Pima/Mela at this point, I would simply suspect that something else is
going on, something out of P/M's vocabulary. And I would do some water
changing today.

-- Mister Gardener

[IDzine01]

Aww Gill, I'm sorry.

[Nikki]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Gill Passman wrote:
>> Nikki wrote:
>>
>>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just thought that I would share this one with you all as part of the
>>>>> big debate on Melafix and Pimafix. I was somewhat sceptical before not
>>>>> having had much success with Melafix but what happened last night was
>>>>> quite incredible....
>>>>>
>>>>> I glanced at Boris the Betta last night and to my horror noticed his
>>>>> tail was slightly shredded at the end and he also had a lot of white
>>>>> fluffy stuff on the wounds. I'd done a water change earlier in the day
>>>>> and am quite religious about doing the small tanks frequently. He
>>>>> shares the tank with 3 Blue Eyed Gertrudes so possibly might have been
>>>>> nipped - I don't know. He was still feeding and flaring at me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I decided to try a mix of Pimafix and Melafix, remembering that Mr
>>>>> Gardener had reported some success by combining the two meds. Within
>>>>> an hour the fluffy stuff had gone....This morning his recovery is
>>>>> continuing - still no fungus and the shredding has not got any worse.
>>>>> He is doing his little betta dance and feeding.... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Time will tell but I must say that I was impressed by the result of
>>>>> mixing the two together...and of course this was not a "controlled"
>>>>> test...
>>>>>
>>>>> Gill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well the dosing with Melafix/Pimafix got rid of the fungus and stopped
>>>> the shredding but sadly I think that there is an underlying cause that
>>>> made Boris the betta succumb to these symptoms.
>>>>
>>>> He is not a happy fish today....he is very top heavy - I would say he
>>>> has a "pine cone" effect in the top half of his body - sigh....I'll try
>>>> treating for constipation if I can get him to eat (he didn't this
>>>> morning)...
>>>>
>>>> Gill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gill, i did not use the pimafix but did use the melafix after using
>>> antifungus for rot, and it worked good.
>>> If you think he is constipated did you try epsom salt? i had to do that
>>> once and it worked well.
>>> Nik
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks Nikki, I'll try and get some today. He is getting worse :-( The
>> only other thing niggling is whether this is a reaction to the
>> Melafix/Pimafix - will be doing some water changes today on his tank and
>> see if that improves anything as well
>>
>> Gill
>
> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(

oh, i am so sorry, that is so frustrating when you have been trying to help
them
Nik
>

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
=========================='
I lost my old decrepit betta yesterday. He hung on for over 4 years. The
last year he didn't look too good...... But the 6 younger ones have a way
to go!
--
Koi-Lo....
Troll Information:
http://tinyurl.com/9zbh
http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
*Note: There are three *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Altum]

Gill Passman wrote:

> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>
Awww...I'm sorry.

I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask
me) so there was nothing you could have done.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

Altum wrote:
> Gill Passman wrote:
>
>> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>>
> Awww...I'm sorry.
>
> I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
> from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
> infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask
> me) so there was nothing you could have done.
>

This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the
other two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same tank
at the same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail outlet - of
course I don't know if it was the same wholesaler....

I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too
attached to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)

Gill

[Gail Futoran]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Altum wrote:
>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>>>
>> Awww...I'm sorry.
>>
>> I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
>> from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
>> infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask me)
>> so there was nothing you could have done.
>>
>
> This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
> Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the other
> two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same tank at the
> same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail outlet - of course I
> don't know if it was the same wholesaler....
>
> I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too attached
> to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)
>
> Gill

I know what you mean. I got two young female Bettas
about 6 months ago. Put them in different community
tanks. One seems to be doing fine, but I found the
other nose down in a corner, dead. The Neon Tetras,
various cory cats, oto cats & skunk botia in that tank
seem unaffected by whatever killed the Betta. I've also
had the same problem keeping dwarf Gouramis alive.
I suppose I'm not meant to have some kinds of fish.

Gail

[Gill Passman]

Gail Futoran wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Altum wrote:
>>
>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>>>>
>>>
>>>Awww...I'm sorry.
>>>
>>>I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
>>>from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
>>>infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask me)
>>>so there was nothing you could have done.
>>>
>>
>>This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
>>Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the other
>>two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same tank at the
>>same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail outlet - of course I
>>don't know if it was the same wholesaler....
>>
>>I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too attached
>>to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> I know what you mean. I got two young female Bettas
> about 6 months ago. Put them in different community
> tanks. One seems to be doing fine, but I found the
> other nose down in a corner, dead. The Neon Tetras,
> various cory cats, oto cats & skunk botia in that tank
> seem unaffected by whatever killed the Betta. I've also
> had the same problem keeping dwarf Gouramis alive.
> I suppose I'm not meant to have some kinds of fish.
>
> Gail
>
>

Don't go there on Dwarf Gouramis...lost my new female today as
well...perfectly fine last night - dead this morning - all in all a bad
fish day :-(

[Altum]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Gail Futoran wrote:
>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>>> This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
>>> Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the
>>> other two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same
>>> tank at the same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail
>>> outlet - of course I don't know if it was the same wholesaler....
>>>
>>> I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too
>>> attached to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)
>>>
>>> Gill
>>
>> I know what you mean. I got two young female Bettas
>> about 6 months ago. Put them in different community
>> tanks. One seems to be doing fine, but I found the
>> other nose down in a corner, dead. The Neon Tetras,
>> various cory cats, oto cats & skunk botia in that tank
>> seem unaffected by whatever killed the Betta. I've also
>> had the same problem keeping dwarf Gouramis alive.
>> I suppose I'm not meant to have some kinds of fish.
>>
>> Gail
>>
>
> Don't go there on Dwarf Gouramis...lost my new female today as
> well...perfectly fine last night - dead this morning - all in all a bad
> fish day :-(
>
I know the feeling. I bought some lovely new gold white clouds.
Quarantined them for three weeks and they were fine, swimming, eating,
and pooping. Two weeks after I put them in the new tank, one was
floating and another red at the mouth and gills. I pulled them from the
tank and treated with acriflavine but it only helped in the short-term.
I'm down to only one of the eight now. No corpses so I suspect the
big dojo is catching and eating them as they weaken. All the other fish
are fine.

New fish just aren't sturdy any more. They have to be in the tank for
three or four months before you can start to think they'll live.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:34:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Altum wrote:
>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>
>>> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>>>
>> Awww...I'm sorry.
>>
>> I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
>> from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
>> infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask
>> me) so there was nothing you could have done.
>>
>
>This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
>Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the
>other two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same tank
>at the same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail outlet - of
>course I don't know if it was the same wholesaler....
>
>I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too
>attached to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)
>
>Gill
Yeah, you should probably wait awhile. You'll need time to think up
another B name. (6 months is all you're getting with your bettas? That
sucks.)

-- Mister Gardener

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:34:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>>Altum wrote:
>>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>>>>
>>> Awww...I'm sorry.
>>>
>>> I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
>>> from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
>>> infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask
>>> me) so there was nothing you could have done.
>>>
>>
>>This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
>>Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the
>>other two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same tank
>>at the same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail outlet - of
>>course I don't know if it was the same wholesaler....
>>
>>I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too
>>attached to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)
>>
>>Gill
> Yeah, you should probably wait awhile. You'll need time to think up
> another B name. (6 months is all you're getting with your bettas? That
> sucks.)
>
> -- Mister Gardener

I know you said you are going to wait before getting a new betta, but when
you do maybe you can look around and find a breeder in your city, i have a
few around here, sometimes they have some very pretty ones, i have a hard
time not getting one when i see one who looks different. My husband always
jokes with me and says Nik back away from the betta's...we are out of room!!
Nik

[Koi-Lo]

"Altum" > wrote in message
om...
>
> New fish just aren't sturdy any more. They have to be in the tank for
> three or four months before you can start to think they'll live.
===================
What I'm seeing in replacing my fancy goldfish is "sudden death syndrome"
for lack of a better name. They appear to be fine one minute and the next
they're on the bottom or in the plants dead. No obvious problems. No
sickness. No laying over on the bottom or surface gasping. Good appetites
and no external parasites. It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Altum" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>
>> New fish just aren't sturdy any more. They have to be in the tank for
>> three or four months before you can start to think they'll live.
>
> ===================
> What I'm seeing in replacing my fancy goldfish is "sudden death
> syndrome" for lack of a better name. They appear to be fine one minute
> and the next they're on the bottom or in the plants dead. No obvious
> problems. No sickness. No laying over on the bottom or surface
> gasping. Good appetites and no external parasites. It's almost as if
> they had a heart-attack.

I know what you mean on that one....my female DG did just this...had her
for around 10 days with no problems and then yesterday morning found her
at the bottom of the tank....

[Gill Passman]

Nikki wrote:
> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:34:24 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Altum wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gill Passman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Awww...I'm sorry.
>>>>
>>>>I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
>>>>from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
>>>>infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask
>>>>me) so there was nothing you could have done.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
>>>Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the
>>>other two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same tank
>>>at the same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail outlet - of
>>>course I don't know if it was the same wholesaler....
>>>
>>>I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too
>>>attached to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)
>>>
>>>Gill
>>
>>Yeah, you should probably wait awhile. You'll need time to think up
>>another B name. (6 months is all you're getting with your bettas? That
>>sucks.)
>>
>>-- Mister Gardener
>
>
> I know you said you are going to wait before getting a new betta, but when
> you do maybe you can look around and find a breeder in your city, i have a
> few around here, sometimes they have some very pretty ones, i have a hard
> time not getting one when i see one who looks different. My husband always
> jokes with me and says Nik back away from the betta's...we are out of room!!
> Nik
>
>
We don't even have that many Aquatic Societies/clubs in the UK and
certainly none near me, so I'm not sure where to start to look for a
betta breeder other than by googling which would be worth a try....in
the past I have just jumped in if I see one that looks above average
quality at the LFS - but obviously they either are not above average
quality enough or possibly they are older than the usual ones I see.

Gill

[swarvegorilla]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:47:46 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
>>> Mister Gardener wrote:
>>>
>>>> The study cited used Melafix only, and determined Melafix has zero
>>>> bacteriocidal action. Too bad they didn't follow this study with
>>>> another using Melafix and Pimafix together, as the manufacturer's blah
>>>> blah seems to emphasize the bacteriocidal effects of Pima. As far as
>>>> the other properties, the study cites some pretty impressive outcomes
>>>> with Melafix alone, including a suggestion to use it for recently
>>>> handled store bought fish. I am not ready to routinely Melafix my new
>>>> fish, but maybe it's worth a shot in my ten gallon QT.
>>>
>>> Pity he didn't test PimaFix. Methyleugenol is a very effective
>>> bactericide at high concentrations. The main question is whether it's
>>> effective at the 1-2 ppm PimaFix concentration.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
>>> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com
>>
>>Doesn't hurt to make up a bottle of homebrew melapima magik brewski.
>>Certainly seems to help cichlids patch back up.
>>But would be careful on which fish ya use on.
>>Some fish don't like melafix at all
>>
> This is another area where information from the manufacturer is sadly
> lacking, but that's OK, we know that sometimes personal experience is
> more accurate than the label on the bottle. So far, I think we've
> heard from two discus people who won't use the stuff on their fish
> again. I can't think of any others for the proposed black list at the
> moment, but I'm certain our info sources will add to the list in time.
>
> -- Mister Gardener


Yea well mangrove Jacks hate the ****.... kinda handy if you need one to
throw up (swallow rubber or plastic) but kinda scary when you almost waste
them with it.
Always reccomend a half strength dose first.
Good stuff but not for everything.

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:38:54 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:47:46 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
>>>> Mister Gardener wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The study cited used Melafix only, and determined Melafix has zero
>>>>> bacteriocidal action. Too bad they didn't follow this study with
>>>>> another using Melafix and Pimafix together, as the manufacturer's blah
>>>>> blah seems to emphasize the bacteriocidal effects of Pima. As far as
>>>>> the other properties, the study cites some pretty impressive outcomes
>>>>> with Melafix alone, including a suggestion to use it for recently
>>>>> handled store bought fish. I am not ready to routinely Melafix my new
>>>>> fish, but maybe it's worth a shot in my ten gallon QT.
>>>>
>>>> Pity he didn't test PimaFix. Methyleugenol is a very effective
>>>> bactericide at high concentrations. The main question is whether it's
>>>> effective at the 1-2 ppm PimaFix concentration.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
>>>> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com
>>>
>>>Doesn't hurt to make up a bottle of homebrew melapima magik brewski.
>>>Certainly seems to help cichlids patch back up.
>>>But would be careful on which fish ya use on.
>>>Some fish don't like melafix at all
>>>
>> This is another area where information from the manufacturer is sadly
>> lacking, but that's OK, we know that sometimes personal experience is
>> more accurate than the label on the bottle. So far, I think we've
>> heard from two discus people who won't use the stuff on their fish
>> again. I can't think of any others for the proposed black list at the
>> moment, but I'm certain our info sources will add to the list in time.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
>
>Yea well mangrove Jacks hate the ****.... kinda handy if you need one to
>throw up (swallow rubber or plastic) but kinda scary when you almost waste
>them with it.
>Always reccomend a half strength dose first.
>Good stuff but not for everything.
>
I talked to my lfs about Pima/Mela the other day - I've mentioned here
previously that he stocks a bare minimum of hardgoods and treatments,
the basics to get a customer through the night until they can get to
the big box stores in the city. His supplier was pushing Mela on him a
couple of years ago and he tried it for several maladies and the rest
of what he said is best not printed on a family forum. 95% of what
gets his customers' fish can be fixed with salt, heat, and water
changes. (His words.) It's all about the slime coat, get that slime
going and the fish's immune system can fight off most anything. He
conceded there are a few exceptions, but Melafix was not among them.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Altum" > wrote in message
om...
>>
>> New fish just aren't sturdy any more. They have to be in the tank for
>> three or four months before you can start to think they'll live.
>===================
>What I'm seeing in replacing my fancy goldfish is "sudden death syndrome"
>for lack of a better name. They appear to be fine one minute and the next
>they're on the bottom or in the plants dead. No obvious problems. No
>sickness. No laying over on the bottom or surface gasping. Good appetites
>and no external parasites. It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.

Maybe I've been hearing too much Tom Cruise in the news, but what if
we someday find out that we, planet earthlings, are actually just
somebody's biodome aquarium. Our keepers would be sending to each
other on space net messages just like the above.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Altum" > wrote in message
om...
>>
>> New fish just aren't sturdy any more. They have to be in the tank for
>> three or four months before you can start to think they'll live.
>===================
>What I'm seeing in replacing my fancy goldfish is "sudden death syndrome"
>for lack of a better name. They appear to be fine one minute and the next
>they're on the bottom or in the plants dead. No obvious problems. No
>sickness. No laying over on the bottom or surface gasping. Good appetites
>and no external parasites. It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.

No joking, I am amazed at the amount of problems people are having
with fish these days. I just don't remember this kind of trouble 20 or
30 or 40 years ago, and our equipment and water treatments were so not
advanced back then. Fish dying soon or even a little later after
bringing them home from the store was a big deal back then, today it's
expected to lose a few here and there.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:56:15 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:34:24 +0100, Gill Passman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Altum wrote:
>>>> Gill Passman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Too late....I just lost Boris :-(
>>>>>
>>>> Awww...I'm sorry.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure it wasn't the pima/mela. Pinecone = dropsy = kidney failure
>>>> from an internal infection. Mela/pima can't always fix internal
>>>> infections. You can't get antibiotics in the UK (sensible if you ask
>>>> me) so there was nothing you could have done.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This is the third betta I've lost in this way...Mr Bluey, Bob and now
>>>Boris. Boris lastest the longest but was in a different tank to the
>>>other two (by that I don't mean Bob and Mr Bluey were in the same tank
>>>at the same time). Boris and Bob came from the same retail outlet - of
>>>course I don't know if it was the same wholesaler....
>>>
>>>I think it will be a while before I get another betta - I get too
>>>attached to them just to see them die after 6 months... :-)
>>>
>>>Gill
>> Yeah, you should probably wait awhile. You'll need time to think up
>> another B name. (6 months is all you're getting with your bettas? That
>> sucks.)
>>
Balthazar. Beefy for short. I once had a cat with that name. After a
favorite character in a book "The Beastly Beatitudes of Balthazar B."

Bacchus. Who gave us bacchanalia.

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>> "Altum" > wrote in message
>> om...
>>
>>>
>>> New fish just aren't sturdy any more. They have to be in the tank for
>>> three or four months before you can start to think they'll live.
>>
>> ===================
>> What I'm seeing in replacing my fancy goldfish is "sudden death syndrome"
>> for lack of a better name. They appear to be fine one minute and the
>> next they're on the bottom or in the plants dead. No obvious problems.
>> No sickness. No laying over on the bottom or surface gasping. Good
>> appetites and no external parasites. It's almost as if they had a
>> heart-attack.
>
> I know what you mean on that one....my female DG did just this...had her
> for around 10 days with no problems and then yesterday morning found her
> at the bottom of the tank....
===============
What do you make of it? This used to be so rare but now it's so common.
The fish that lived past 6 to 8 weeks are doing great. Only one, a small
bronze powder-puff GF died past that time period and in the same way. All
the plecos and otos are thriving. Every morning when I turn the lights on I
wonder if I'll find a GF that died in the night. :-(

What are your thoughts? Genetic weakness? Too much inbreeding? Poor
handling between the breeder and people's homes?

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.
>
> Maybe I've been hearing too much Tom Cruise in the news, but what if
> we someday find out that we, planet earthlings, are actually just
> somebody's biodome aquarium. Our keepers would be sending to each
> other on space net messages just like the above.
>
> -- Mister Gardener
=====================
Who knows? We may be someone's experiment. Maybe that's what those UFO
sightings are all about.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Altum" > wrote in message
>>> om...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> New fish just aren't sturdy any more. They have to be in the tank
>>>> for three or four months before you can start to think they'll live.
>>>
>>>
>>> ===================
>>> What I'm seeing in replacing my fancy goldfish is "sudden death
>>> syndrome" for lack of a better name. They appear to be fine one
>>> minute and the next they're on the bottom or in the plants dead. No
>>> obvious problems. No sickness. No laying over on the bottom or
>>> surface gasping. Good appetites and no external parasites. It's
>>> almost as if they had a heart-attack.
>>
>>
>> I know what you mean on that one....my female DG did just this...had
>> her for around 10 days with no problems and then yesterday morning
>> found her at the bottom of the tank....
>
> ===============
> What do you make of it? This used to be so rare but now it's so common.
> The fish that lived past 6 to 8 weeks are doing great. Only one, a
> small bronze powder-puff GF died past that time period and in the same
> way. All the plecos and otos are thriving. Every morning when I turn
> the lights on I wonder if I'll find a GF that died in the night. :-(
>
> What are your thoughts? Genetic weakness? Too much inbreeding? Poor
> handling between the breeder and people's homes?
>

You're right....I remember as a kid even the goldfish I used to win at
fairs were far more resilient....inbreeding, overuse of medication,
resistant to diseases, weak stock, bad handling by shippers, stores and
new owners. Who knows? ....but I don't think it is acceptable....

With Boris I had had him since last September (and the others have lived
around 6 months) which makes me think it is either the age when
purchased or an inherent weakness in the stock. I've also considered bad
husbandry on my part but if so, why is it just the bettas and the rams
that rarely survive past 6 months and all the other fish do just fine?
(I'm not counting any fish I lose within days/weeks of purchase in this).

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.
========
> No joking, I am amazed at the amount of problems people are having
> with fish these days. I just don't remember this kind of trouble 20 or
> 30 or 40 years ago, and our equipment and water treatments were so not
> advanced back then. Fish dying soon or even a little later after
> bringing them home from the store was a big deal back then, today it's
> expected to lose a few here and there.
>
> -- Mister Gardener
============
As am I. What you say is true. What could the differences be? I think
it's more than likely a combination of inbreeding, rough handling including
too many fish per shipping bag to save shipping costs, buildups of disease
(all types) in some of the dealer's and wholesaler's tanks, bacterial
immunity to antibiotics, ...perhaps even more toxins in our tap water. It
was rare to lose a new GF even 15 years ago.

Lets take those WW calico lionheads I returned with contagious ulcers for
example. You know some wholesaler (plus WW) has that bacteria in their
systems now. How many thousands of fish were exposed and are still being
exposed? How many other stores besides WW were infected with this bacteria
as the wholesaler shipped fish here and there? What about the breeders? I
remember the AK breeder with the deadly gillfluke outbreak. His GF were
shipped all over the place.

Now,.... how many of us bought fish that *looked* perfectly healthy but were
already infested and that infection (or parasite) were silently doing their
thing on these fish? How can we know what they were exposed to? We can't.

Just think of someone who bought one of those lionheads, or other fish from
that same tank (or tank in another store who bought from the same
wholesaler) and added it to their loved collection of GF or koi at home? In
a few weeks to a few months they will find themselves fishless. I believe
there needs to be some law regulating places that breed and/or sell fish to
the public. It's like everyone is out for themselves, and I know this
doesn't apply to everyone, ...it's like nothing but the bottom line counts
in the long run.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:34:09 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.
>>
>> Maybe I've been hearing too much Tom Cruise in the news, but what if
>> we someday find out that we, planet earthlings, are actually just
>> somebody's biodome aquarium. Our keepers would be sending to each
>> other on space net messages just like the above.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>=====================
>Who knows? We may be someone's experiment. Maybe that's what those UFO
>sightings are all about.

And maybe we are someone else's UFO.

-- Mister Gardener

[Gill Passman]

Mister Gardener wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:34:09 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>
>>It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.
>>
>>>Maybe I've been hearing too much Tom Cruise in the news, but what if
>>>we someday find out that we, planet earthlings, are actually just
>>>somebody's biodome aquarium. Our keepers would be sending to each
>>>other on space net messages just like the above.
>>>
>>>-- Mister Gardener
>>
>>=====================
>>Who knows? We may be someone's experiment. Maybe that's what those UFO
>>sightings are all about.
>
>
> And maybe we are someone else's UFO.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

Or maybe as Larry uses in his signature "It's turtles all the way down" :-)

Or maybe we really are an experiment set up by the white mice.....

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>> wrote:
>
> It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.
> ========
>
>> No joking, I am amazed at the amount of problems people are having
>> with fish these days. I just don't remember this kind of trouble 20 or
>> 30 or 40 years ago, and our equipment and water treatments were so not
>> advanced back then. Fish dying soon or even a little later after
>> bringing them home from the store was a big deal back then, today it's
>> expected to lose a few here and there.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
> ============
> As am I. What you say is true. What could the differences be? I think
> it's more than likely a combination of inbreeding, rough handling
> including too many fish per shipping bag to save shipping costs,
> buildups of disease (all types) in some of the dealer's and wholesaler's
> tanks, bacterial immunity to antibiotics, ...perhaps even more toxins in
> our tap water. It was rare to lose a new GF even 15 years ago.
>
> Lets take those WW calico lionheads I returned with contagious ulcers
> for example. You know some wholesaler (plus WW) has that bacteria in
> their systems now. How many thousands of fish were exposed and are
> still being exposed? How many other stores besides WW were infected
> with this bacteria as the wholesaler shipped fish here and there? What
> about the breeders? I remember the AK breeder with the deadly gillfluke
> outbreak. His GF were shipped all over the place.
>
> Now,.... how many of us bought fish that *looked* perfectly healthy but
> were already infested and that infection (or parasite) were silently
> doing their thing on these fish? How can we know what they were exposed
> to? We can't.
>
> Just think of someone who bought one of those lionheads, or other fish
> from that same tank (or tank in another store who bought from the same
> wholesaler) and added it to their loved collection of GF or koi at
> home? In a few weeks to a few months they will find themselves
> fishless. I believe there needs to be some law regulating places that
> breed and/or sell fish to the public. It's like everyone is out for
> themselves, and I know this doesn't apply to everyone, ...it's like
> nothing but the bottom line counts in the long run.

I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.

He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
betta food (tetra I think).

Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
get any in for at least 2 weeks....

Gill

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:47:11 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>
>I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
>stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
>because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
>breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.
>
>He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
>betta food (tetra I think).
>
>Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
>get any in for at least 2 weeks....
>
>Gill

Isn't it a good feeling to be able to have an honest chat with an
honest fish dealer? I had a similar experience this morning that I
shall describe in another message.

-- Mister Gardener

[Gill Passman]

Mister Gardener wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:47:11 +0100, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
>>stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
>>because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
>>breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.
>>
>>He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
>>betta food (tetra I think).
>>
>>Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
>>get any in for at least 2 weeks....
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> Isn't it a good feeling to be able to have an honest chat with an
> honest fish dealer? I had a similar experience this morning that I
> shall describe in another message.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

It is...they are usually quite good at that place - which isn't where I
bought either Bob or Boris - I think Mr Bluey may have come from there
but that was over a year ago...

Gill

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> You're right....I remember as a kid even the goldfish I used to win at
> fairs were far more resilient....inbreeding, overuse of medication,
> resistant to diseases, weak stock, bad handling by shippers, stores and
> new owners. Who knows? ....but I don't think it is acceptable....

It's a shame as these problems are going to turn a lot of newbies in the
hobby off. I know I've beat this drum before but there should be laws that
all employees selling live animals of any kind (including fish and birds)
have some kind of basic training. My grandson was very disappointed and sad
when his bettas fought and died. Why on earth would someone sell a child a
pair of bettas and one bowl? It was either ignorance or they wanted to roll
some female bettas.

> With Boris I had had him since last September (and the others have lived
> around 6 months) which makes me think it is either the age when purchased
> or an inherent weakness in the stock.

I have had really good luck with bettas. I seldom lose one before 4 years
of age. The PetsMart here gets in excellent bettas. I've been buying mine
there for years now. They're young and healthy and the employees take care
of them very well. All the boys have been moved into 1g tanks and jars now
so may live a bit longer, I hope. It's also warmer on the bar-room-divider
than the windowsill but now they have no view. The next time I clean their
tanks I'll put them back on the sill so they can see outside.

I've also considered bad
> husbandry on my part but if so, why is it just the bettas and the rams
> that rarely survive past 6 months and all the other fish do just fine?

I gave up on Rams. I never could get them to live more than a few months
either. All they would eat was some live food which is either unavailable
in the stores these days or you have to raise your own. And they're bottom
feeders so the other fish would beat them to most of the food. No more Rams
for me. After so many years of fishkeeping I now want the easy to care for,
easy going, long lived fish in my indoor tanks. BTW,... this is the longest
otos ever lived for me. All are still alive and doing well in the GF and
platy tanks. I was hoping they'd at least survive long enough to clean up
the algae attack but it looks like they've made themselves at home. :-)

> (I'm not counting any fish I lose within days/weeks of purchase in this).
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>
> I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
> stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
> because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
> breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.

He should be able to tell by looking if a fish is "old" as with many of them
there are giveaways. Before you buy your next betta ask him his opinion on
it's age. I've personally seen very few OLD bettas for sale in the chains.
You said the smaller ones looked a bit puny - then do not buy them there!!!!
Young bettas should have a nice "finish" and not look weak or half starved.
Looking down on them they shouldn't look "big headed." I think you need to
look for bettas elsewhere. Sometimes the best private M&P shop isn't the
best place for certain fish.

> He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
> betta food (tetra I think).

I don't use any salt but do feed them a variety of betta foods. They will
eat flakes but don't care much for them. They also love thawed blood worms.

> Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to get
> any in for at least 2 weeks....

If all they're living for is 6 months I think you need to buy them somewhere
else.......

>
> Gill
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>> I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
>> stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
>> because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
>> breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.
>
>
> He should be able to tell by looking if a fish is "old" as with many of
> them there are giveaways. Before you buy your next betta ask him his
> opinion on it's age. I've personally seen very few OLD bettas for sale
> in the chains. You said the smaller ones looked a bit puny - then do not
> buy them there!!!! Young bettas should have a nice "finish" and not look
> weak or half starved. Looking down on them they shouldn't look "big
> headed." I think you need to look for bettas elsewhere. Sometimes the
> best private M&P shop isn't the best place for certain fish.
>
>> He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a
>> specific betta food (tetra I think).
>
>
> I don't use any salt but do feed them a variety of betta foods. They
> will eat flakes but don't care much for them. They also love thawed
> blood worms.
>
>> Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
>> get any in for at least 2 weeks....
>
>
> If all they're living for is 6 months I think you need to buy them
> somewhere else.......
>
>>
>> Gill

I bought the last two somewhere else....I'm not even sure if I ever
bought a betta from the place I was at today - plenty other fish
though...They are pretty good on advice and the fish are generally
healthy - and you don't have to fight them for a credit note.

I'll wait and see what they get in a couple of weeks time betta-wise....

Gill

[Nikki]

The problem with a lot of stores, well they don't find it to be a problem
but the rate they are able to turn over betta's in most places is pretty
quick, they sell the betta and little betta bowl and food for it, to make a
profit, unlike other fish were people plan to get them and setup a tank and
what not, with bettas people don't always plan to get them, but they see
them near the check out and just grab them with all the stuff to go along
with them, because they are pretty.or because its easy (they think)...but
for them to be pretty and have long flowing tails/fin they have to be a
little older. most betta's in chain stores are between 6-8 months. I always
look at the betta's at petco or petsmart and notice the small ones who are
younger are always there longer, because people think they are not as pretty
as some of the big ones, but if they would get them young they could see
them grow into that pretty fish. most of the time if you talk to someone who
got their betta at a chain store they will tell you most of the time they
live 2 years, if you talk to breeders who have them since babies they say
3-4 years.
Nik



"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>> I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
>>> stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
>>> because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
>>> breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.
>>
>>
>> He should be able to tell by looking if a fish is "old" as with many of
>> them there are giveaways. Before you buy your next betta ask him his
>> opinion on it's age. I've personally seen very few OLD bettas for sale
>> in the chains. You said the smaller ones looked a bit puny - then do not
>> buy them there!!!! Young bettas should have a nice "finish" and not look
>> weak or half starved. Looking down on them they shouldn't look "big
>> headed." I think you need to look for bettas elsewhere. Sometimes the
>> best private M&P shop isn't the best place for certain fish.
>>
>>> He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
>>> betta food (tetra I think).
>>
>>
>> I don't use any salt but do feed them a variety of betta foods. They
>> will eat flakes but don't care much for them. They also love thawed
>> blood worms.
>>
>>> Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
>>> get any in for at least 2 weeks....
>>
>>
>> If all they're living for is 6 months I think you need to buy them
>> somewhere else.......
>>
>>>
>>> Gill
>
> I bought the last two somewhere else....I'm not even sure if I ever bought
> a betta from the place I was at today - plenty other fish though...They
> are pretty good on advice and the fish are generally healthy - and you
> don't have to fight them for a credit note.
>
> I'll wait and see what they get in a couple of weeks time betta-wise....
>
> Gill

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:32:55 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>> You're right....I remember as a kid even the goldfish I used to win at
>> fairs were far more resilient....inbreeding, overuse of medication,
>> resistant to diseases, weak stock, bad handling by shippers, stores and
>> new owners. Who knows? ....but I don't think it is acceptable....
>
>It's a shame as these problems are going to turn a lot of newbies in the
>hobby off. I know I've beat this drum before but there should be laws that
>all employees selling live animals of any kind (including fish and birds)
>have some kind of basic training. My grandson was very disappointed and sad
>when his bettas fought and died. Why on earth would someone sell a child a
>pair of bettas and one bowl? It was either ignorance or they wanted to roll
>some female bettas.

I agree with that. Something on the level of Vet Tech, training and
licensure that we have here in the U.S. I have a lot of admiration for
vet techs, they are a devoted lot. It would be a huge positive step if
we could at least get a requirement that fish sellers must have a vet
tech on staff, full time. I was impressed to read an article recently
about Veterinary Nurses in Great Britain. An extensive education and
internship program fully equivalent to Bachelor's and Masters level of
human nursing here in the U.S.

Which reminds me. One of my cats, a big black fellow named Popeye, has
extra toes on all feet, and he grows an extra toenail between his
thumbs and forefingers and these nails curl under and imbed if we
don't trim them a couple of times a year. And every time I try, I draw
blood. Mine. I need to make an appointment with the vet tech to do his
nails for me pretty soon.

Another important role of the vet tech is community education. Enough
said.

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>
> I agree with that. Something on the level of Vet Tech, training and
> licensure that we have here in the U.S. I have a lot of admiration for
> vet techs, they are a devoted lot. It would be a huge positive step if
> we could at least get a requirement that fish sellers must have a vet
> tech on staff, full time. I was impressed to read an article recently
> about Veterinary Nurses in Great Britain. An extensive education and
> internship program fully equivalent to Bachelor's and Masters level of
> human nursing here in the U.S.

They probably couldn't afford someone with that much training but someone
with SOME training and knowledge who must pass some kind of test to work
with living things is in order.

> Which reminds me. One of my cats, a big black fellow named Popeye, has
> extra toes on all feet, and he grows an extra toenail between his
> thumbs and forefingers and these nails curl under and imbed if we
> don't trim them a couple of times a year. And every time I try, I draw
> blood. Mine. I need to make an appointment with the vet tech to do his
> nails for me pretty soon.

Why don't you just have your vet remove these nails so they can't grow back?

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>