Pelcos- Do they out grow tanks?

[Trevor Stenson]

Hi,

I'm a newbie to the group and picking up my freshwater Aquarium Hobby
after 20 years.

I had fish and two tanks as a youth for about 10 years up to the start
of college.

So I have a few questions I'd like to ask the group over the next few
weeks. I hope I don't overtly display my ignorance. It seems I've
forgotten a few things over the years and their are quite a few outright
experts here. Anyway:

Question #1:

I restarted with a 20 community tank. Lots of plants (Amazon Swords and
floating Hornwort), a couple homemade caves, some small apple snails
which came in with the plants , a Betta couple, a rainbow shark, a
Common Pleco, and (finally) 5 swordtails to fill out the tank.

The tank is just over 4 months old and seems to be doing very well.
Fish are getting along with each other and the water is crystal clear.

I'm worried about my Pleco though. He doing really well, but perhaps
too well. I got him for very cheap and he was described as small but
was already an inch long. I'm guessing he is 4 inches now and has a
large girth. Will he outgrow the tank? He is quite nocturnal, and
somehow manages to stuff himself inside my homemade rock caves (with
tail often sticking out) during the day. I was under the impression
that most fish will only grow so big in accordance with the size of
their environment.

Will he outgrow my Tank? I only have one and don't want to give him
away. He is a beautiful monster! Am I overcrowding my small Tank?

Cheers,

Trev

--
Trevor Stenson

http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Digs.html
http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Blog/Blog.html

[swarvegorilla]

"Trevor Stenson" > wrote in message
news:kitschy-B53914.01061915042006@shawnews...
> Hi,
>
> I'm a newbie to the group and picking up my freshwater Aquarium Hobby
> after 20 years.
>
> I had fish and two tanks as a youth for about 10 years up to the start
> of college.
>
> So I have a few questions I'd like to ask the group over the next few
> weeks. I hope I don't overtly display my ignorance. It seems I've
> forgotten a few things over the years and their are quite a few outright
> experts here. Anyway:
>
> Question #1:
>
> I restarted with a 20 community tank. Lots of plants (Amazon Swords and
> floating Hornwort), a couple homemade caves, some small apple snails
> which came in with the plants , a Betta couple, a rainbow shark, a
> Common Pleco, and (finally) 5 swordtails to fill out the tank.
>
> The tank is just over 4 months old and seems to be doing very well.
> Fish are getting along with each other and the water is crystal clear.
>
> I'm worried about my Pleco though. He doing really well, but perhaps
> too well. I got him for very cheap and he was described as small but
> was already an inch long. I'm guessing he is 4 inches now and has a
> large girth. Will he outgrow the tank? He is quite nocturnal, and
> somehow manages to stuff himself inside my homemade rock caves (with
> tail often sticking out) during the day. I was under the impression
> that most fish will only grow so big in accordance with the size of
> their environment.
>
> Will he outgrow my Tank? I only have one and don't want to give him
> away. He is a beautiful monster! Am I overcrowding my small Tank?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Trev
>
> --
> Trevor Stenson


Yes, he will outgrow the tank and yes he will produce far more waste than
you want to deal with in there..
The rainbow shark will also prob get a bit aggro.

[Nikki]

"swarvegorilla" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Trevor Stenson" > wrote in message
> news:kitschy-B53914.01061915042006@shawnews...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm a newbie to the group and picking up my freshwater Aquarium Hobby
>> after 20 years.
>>
>> I had fish and two tanks as a youth for about 10 years up to the start
>> of college.
>>
>> So I have a few questions I'd like to ask the group over the next few
>> weeks. I hope I don't overtly display my ignorance. It seems I've
>> forgotten a few things over the years and their are quite a few outright
>> experts here. Anyway:
>>
>> Question #1:
>>
>> I restarted with a 20 community tank. Lots of plants (Amazon Swords and
>> floating Hornwort), a couple homemade caves, some small apple snails
>> which came in with the plants , a Betta couple, a rainbow shark, a
>> Common Pleco, and (finally) 5 swordtails to fill out the tank.
>>
>> The tank is just over 4 months old and seems to be doing very well.
>> Fish are getting along with each other and the water is crystal clear.
>>
>> I'm worried about my Pleco though. He doing really well, but perhaps
>> too well. I got him for very cheap and he was described as small but
>> was already an inch long. I'm guessing he is 4 inches now and has a
>> large girth. Will he outgrow the tank? He is quite nocturnal, and
>> somehow manages to stuff himself inside my homemade rock caves (with
>> tail often sticking out) during the day. I was under the impression
>> that most fish will only grow so big in accordance with the size of
>> their environment.
>>
>> Will he outgrow my Tank? I only have one and don't want to give him
>> away. He is a beautiful monster! Am I overcrowding my small Tank?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Trev
>>
>> --
>> Trevor Stenson
>
>
> Yes, he will outgrow the tank and yes he will produce far more waste than
> you want to deal with in there..
> The rainbow shark will also prob get a bit aggro.
>
>
you got some time, but yes he will out grow that tank, mine is in a 39 gl
and I have had him for a while, so I would not worry yet, but its best if
they have room as they get bigger, I think its about a foot they grow to
maybe a little more, you said he was a common pl*co right? One more thing
someone said about the poop, just use a vacuum, it is usually strung all
over the tank or in a place where they spend there time, just vacuum or net
the poop and it should not cause to much problem, they help more then hurt.
Nik

[Trevor Stenson]

> > The rainbow shark will also prob get a bit aggro.
> >
> >
> you got some time, but yes he will out grow that tank, mine is in a 39 gl
> and I have had him for a while, so I would not worry yet, but its best if
> they have room as they get bigger, I think its about a foot they grow to
> maybe a little more, you said he was a common pl*co right? One more thing
> someone said about the poop, just use a vacuum, it is usually strung all
> over the tank or in a place where they spend there time, just vacuum or net
> the poop and it should not cause to much problem, they help more then hurt.
> Nik

Yes a common Pleco I believe.

Thanks all for the advice. Yes the shark has gotten somewhat big as
well and a bit feisty, but has doesn't bother any of the fish I have now
too much - as in distressing them or hurting them. I have tones of
hiding spaces (cave and plants as well). He is alsolutely the alpha
fish, although the Betta pair keep him in-line.

I do know that he won't tolerate any small or pesky fish (tetras), or
anymore crowding - my tank is at its limit and is relatively placid as
is, especially considering my choice of fish.

Odd (with the shark) as I expected, naively, that he would behave like
the red-tailed shark I had as a youth: that one didn't grow very large
and was extremely gentle.

I'd never want to flush a healthy live fish, and since I have no friends
with aquariums, I'll probably see if my favorite fish specialty store
will adopt the Pleco if/when he gets to big for the tank.

Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into Godzilla?

That is what I'll go for next time if I have to put the Pleco up for
adoption.

Thanks again,

Trev

--
Trevor Stenson

http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Digs.html
http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Blog/Blog.html

[Gill Passman]

Trevor Stenson wrote:
>>>The rainbow shark will also prob get a bit aggro.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>you got some time, but yes he will out grow that tank, mine is in a 39 gl
>>and I have had him for a while, so I would not worry yet, but its best if
>>they have room as they get bigger, I think its about a foot they grow to
>>maybe a little more, you said he was a common pl*co right? One more thing
>>someone said about the poop, just use a vacuum, it is usually strung all
>>over the tank or in a place where they spend there time, just vacuum or net
>>the poop and it should not cause to much problem, they help more then hurt.
>>Nik
>
>
> Yes a common Pleco I believe.
>
> Thanks all for the advice. Yes the shark has gotten somewhat big as
> well and a bit feisty, but has doesn't bother any of the fish I have now
> too much - as in distressing them or hurting them. I have tones of
> hiding spaces (cave and plants as well). He is alsolutely the alpha
> fish, although the Betta pair keep him in-line.
>
> I do know that he won't tolerate any small or pesky fish (tetras), or
> anymore crowding - my tank is at its limit and is relatively placid as
> is, especially considering my choice of fish.
>
> Odd (with the shark) as I expected, naively, that he would behave like
> the red-tailed shark I had as a youth: that one didn't grow very large
> and was extremely gentle.
>
> I'd never want to flush a healthy live fish, and since I have no friends
> with aquariums, I'll probably see if my favorite fish specialty store
> will adopt the Pleco if/when he gets to big for the tank.
>
> Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into Godzilla?
>
> That is what I'll go for next time if I have to put the Pleco up for
> adoption.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Trev
>

If you are keen on plecs you could go for one of the smaller ones - I
have a Queen Arabesque and a Snowball (can't remember their L numbers).
They cost quite a bit more but don't grow so big...One of our regular
posters, Koi-Lo, has Clown Plecs I believe - again they do not grow so
large...and are cheaper than the two that I have.

Other alternatives for algae eaters off the top of my head, would be,
Otos, SAE's (Siamese Algae Eaters), lyre tail mollies (sp).....I'm sure
others can add to this list...

Gill

[Mister Gardener]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:44:47 GMT, Trevor Stenson >
wrote:
>Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into Godzilla?

Bristle nose pl*co AKA Bushy nose pl*co AKA Ancistrus catfish - an
excellent algae eater - grows to about 4 or 5 inches max. As with his
brethren and sistren loricarids, needs hidey holes and wood to chew
on. Some will feed and cruise in the daytime, but my experience has
been that they do most of their stepping out at night, after lights
out. Also make sure he gets some veggies as he will run out of algae
pretty quickly. I drop algae food discs into my ancistrus containing
tanks after the lights go out, the discs are always gone in the
morning. A 3 page article in the FAMA that just hit the newsstands
this week features the bushy nose - it's buried way back near the
classifieds. Perhaps the author wanted to hide it because he was
embarrassed - I would have hidden it for sure if I had written such a
shallow article, but it's a nice intro, I suppose. If you introduce
more than one of the suckermouth catfish to your tank, make sure that
each has his or her own hidey hole and wood.

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/

[Dale Henderson]

>>>>> "TS" == Trevor Stenson > writes:


TS> Yes a common Pleco I believe.

I think many people call a sailfin pleco a common pleco. If you have a
sailfin pleco, they can get quite large. I've seen them that where 18"
long.

TS> Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into
TS> Godzilla?

Bristlenose plecos only get 4" long. And I hear they really devastate
algae.

[Trevor Stenson]

In article >,
Dale Henderson > wrote:

> >>>>> "TS" == Trevor Stenson > writes:
>
>
> TS> Yes a common Pleco I believe.
>
> I think many people call a sailfin pleco a common pleco. If you have a
> sailfin pleco, they can get quite large. I've seen them that where 18"
> long.
>
> TS> Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into
> TS> Godzilla?
>
> Bristlenose plecos only get 4" long. And I hear they really devastate
> algae.

Hi thanks for all the fish suggestions everyone.

As to your specific question.

I bought him a small common pleco at a chain store, which actually isn't
bad at keeping fish and has a large selection. The told me it was a
common pleco but I remember commenting that they certainly were small!
The lady said she ordered them and they came in that way looking more on
the medium size (almost and inch with tail but not really fat yet).

I shop at an aquarium/fish only store now.

Anyway, the web is confusing on this. Some of the pictures are much
more plain with small fins. That is not my guy and is listed as
Hypostomus plecostomus (the store didn't have the Latin name). Others
look a lot like my fish but maybe these sites are mistaken. I
originally put down H. plecostomus in my database as the fishes ID.


However, some, but not all, of the pictures of the Sailfin Pleco
(Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps) do indeed look quite a lot like my pleco.
More so than the plain picutres of H. plecostomus.

Pictures of the Gibby and White Spotted Sailfin Plecos do indeed look
like my fish. So there is a chance that a Sailfin was unwittingly sold
and bought. And I'm taking it that this one of the large growth plecos.

I originally knew that the fish could grow up to 18", I discovered this
when I investigated it further on bring it home, but I thought that
would take up to 10 years. Mine just is growing faster than expected.
Where I found this info also showed a picture of a fish that looks like
mine (so is that a H. pleco or a Sailfin?).

I'll try to get a better look at mine next time he is out, but he often
hides from the light.

Also I tried algae pellets at first. They resulted in an algae bloom
but maybe I was adding them too often (once a day). I stopped, then I
got regular algae from all my plants. Then the Pleco went to work and
all the algae disappeared, and my Pleco grew and grew and...he seems
fine just on the normal plants and algae for now. The is no wood
(unless petrified) and I feed him no special food since the pellets but
if need be I can reintroduce other food at some point.

Thanks,
Trev

--
Trevor Stenson

http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Digs.html
http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Blog/Blog.html

[Altum]

Trevor Stenson wrote:
>
> I bought him a small common pleco at a chain store, which actually isn't
> bad at keeping fish and has a large selection. The told me it was a
> common pleco but I remember commenting that they certainly were small!
> The lady said she ordered them and they came in that way looking more on
> the medium size (almost and inch with tail but not really fat yet).
>
> I shop at an aquarium/fish only store now.
>
> Anyway, the web is confusing on this. Some of the pictures are much
> more plain with small fins. That is not my guy and is listed as
> Hypostomus plecostomus (the store didn't have the Latin name). Others
> look a lot like my fish but maybe these sites are mistaken. I
> originally put down H. plecostomus in my database as the fishes ID.
>
>
> However, some, but not all, of the pictures of the Sailfin Pleco
> (Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps) do indeed look quite a lot like my pleco.
> More so than the plain picutres of H. plecostomus.
>
> Pictures of the Gibby and White Spotted Sailfin Plecos do indeed look
> like my fish. So there is a chance that a Sailfin was unwittingly sold
> and bought. And I'm taking it that this one of the large growth plecos.

Gibbies are often sold as "common plecos". Mislabeling is rampant at
the big chains. Big gibbies are gorgeous fish. To tell a little gibbie
from a common pleco, look for the spotted patterning on the fin and
back. Gibbies also have a large dorsal that's given them the name of
sailfin.

> I originally knew that the fish could grow up to 18", I discovered this
> when I investigated it further on bring it home, but I thought that
> would take up to 10 years. Mine just is growing faster than expected.
> Where I found this info also showed a picture of a fish that looks like
> mine (so is that a H. pleco or a Sailfin?).

Heh. Fish grow to their natural size, and they do it pretty fast if
you're feeding well. Gibbies need at least a 55 gallon tank, and 70 is
better since it's 18" front to back.

> I'll try to get a better look at mine next time he is out, but he often
> hides from the light.
>
> Also I tried algae pellets at first. They resulted in an algae bloom
> but maybe I was adding them too often (once a day). I stopped, then I
> got regular algae from all my plants. Then the Pleco went to work and
> all the algae disappeared, and my Pleco grew and grew and...he seems
> fine just on the normal plants and algae for now. The is no wood
> (unless petrified) and I feed him no special food since the pellets but
> if need be I can reintroduce other food at some point.

Plecos need a *lot* of food. Small ones eat a lot of vegetable matter
so offer slices of cucumber, blanched zucchini, or romaine lettuce along
with the algae wafers. Remove any veggies after 24 hours.

As they grow, common plecs and gibbies start looking for meatier foods.
Shrimp pellets, sinking wafers, worms, or anything that hits the bottom.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Koi-Lo]

"Trevor Stenson" > wrote in message
news:kitschy-B53914.01061915042006@shawnews...
> I'm worried about my Pleco though. He doing really well, but perhaps
> too well. I got him for very cheap and he was described as small but
> was already an inch long. I'm guessing he is 4 inches now and has a
> large girth. Will he outgrow the tank?

YES! The pet shops wont always tell you these fish can reach 18" long.
You'd be better off with a clown pleco. They only reach 6" long and grow
slowly.

He is quite nocturnal, and
> somehow manages to stuff himself inside my homemade rock caves (with
> tail often sticking out) during the day. I was under the impression
> that most fish will only grow so big in accordance with the size of
> their environment.

That's an old wives tale.

> Will he outgrow my Tank? I only have one and don't want to give him
> away. He is a beautiful monster! Am I overcrowding my small Tank?

Picture him when he reaches 15 to 18" long........
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
rec.pond's FAQ are at: http://www.geocities.com/justinm090/faq.html
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Trevor Stenson" > wrote in message
news:kitschy-6A4DE8.08444615042006@shawnews...
>
> Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into Godzilla?
=============
There are the small otocinclus (sp?) and I love the little clown pleacos I
have. Together they do an excellent job in keeping everything in the tanks
algae free.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[swarvegorilla]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Trevor Stenson" > wrote in message
> news:kitschy-6A4DE8.08444615042006@shawnews...
>>
>> Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into Godzilla?
> =============
> There are the small otocinclus (sp?) and I love the little clown pleacos I
> have. Together they do an excellent job in keeping everything in the
> tanks algae free.
> --
I agree an L168 (clown plec) is a great choice. Basically a bristlenose
with stripes. Bit more expensive but a loverly tough fish.
Good algae appetite for that size tank and yea doesn't litter the place with
huge logs.
Ya got a while though, small tanks definitely slow down fish growth, they
don't stop it. Fish can still get just as big but yea slows them right down.
good or bad I dunno your call.
armoured catfish are the 'fad' at the moment along with marine. Some good
stuff to be had but a lot is very expensive.
clown plec for example is a poor substitute for a zebra plec, but they are
expensive little buggers they are!!

[Koi-Lo]

"swarvegorilla" > wrote in message
u...
Some good
> stuff to be had but a lot is very expensive.
> clown plec for example is a poor substitute for a zebra plec, but they are
> expensive little buggers they are!!
===================
My clown plecos were only $2 more than the regular plecos.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:28:14 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>
>
>
>"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Trevor Stenson" > wrote in message
>> news:kitschy-6A4DE8.08444615042006@shawnews...
>>>
>>> Are there any recommended algae-eaters that won't turn into Godzilla?
>> =============
>> There are the small otocinclus (sp?) and I love the little clown pleacos I
>> have. Together they do an excellent job in keeping everything in the
>> tanks algae free.
>> --
> I agree an L168 (clown plec) is a great choice. Basically a bristlenose
>with stripes. Bit more expensive but a loverly tough fish.
>Good algae appetite for that size tank and yea doesn't litter the place with
>huge logs.
>Ya got a while though, small tanks definitely slow down fish growth, they
>don't stop it. Fish can still get just as big but yea slows them right down.
>good or bad I dunno your call.
>armoured catfish are the 'fad' at the moment along with marine. Some good
>stuff to be had but a lot is very expensive.
>clown plec for example is a poor substitute for a zebra plec, but they are
>expensive little buggers they are!!

I usually pay 6 or 7 dollars for my bushy noses.

-- Mister Gardener

[Dale Henderson]

>>>>> "MG" == Mister Gardener > writes:

MG> On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:28:14 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
MG> > wrote:

MG> I usually pay 6 or 7 dollars for my bushy noses.

Wow the last on I saw was $18.

MG> -- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>
> I usually pay 6 or 7 dollars for my bushy noses.
=================
I haven't seen one these in years, at any price. :(
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Trevor Stenson]

> Gibbies are often sold as "common plecos". Mislabeling is rampant at
> the big chains. Big gibbies are gorgeous fish. To tell a little gibbie
> from a common pleco, look for the spotted patterning on the fin and
> back. Gibbies also have a large dorsal that's given them the name of
> sailfin.
>


Hi,

I checked out the aquaria faqs and bookmarked it. I'll try not to ask
redundant questions in future, although it might take awhile to go
through everything. Looks like a very useful site and since it is
written, I'm assuming, at least partially by group members I feel pretty
safe taking its advice. There are some many sites and opinions on the
web - it is hard to know what is good advice and what is complete bunkum.

So thanks for that.

As for the Pleco, my final word on it is that I'm going to slowly
reintroduce algae tablets and other food as necessary to make sure I'm
not underfeeding him. I got a good look at him in the open light and my
wife and I are convinced he is indeed a leopard Gibbie. He looks
beautiful and healthy and we are going to keep him until it is no longer
healthy for him or the "tank" for him to stay. I hope after that to
find a good and "better home and garden for him". As for a replacement
aglae-eater I will then try to get a nice clown pleco who can handle the
algae but not overgrow the tank.

Thanks again for the advice (a shout out to you and everyone else that
took time to respond).

TS

--
Trevor Stenson

http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Digs.html
http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Blog/Blog.html

[Altum]

Trevor Stenson wrote:

> I checked out the aquaria faqs and bookmarked it. I'll try not to ask
> redundant questions in future, although it might take awhile to go
> through everything. Looks like a very useful site and since it is
> written, I'm assuming, at least partially by group members I feel pretty
> safe taking its advice. There are some many sites and opinions on the
> web - it is hard to know what is good advice and what is complete bunkum.
>
> So thanks for that.
>
> As for the Pleco, my final word on it is that I'm going to slowly
> reintroduce algae tablets and other food as necessary to make sure I'm
> not underfeeding him. I got a good look at him in the open light and my
> wife and I are convinced he is indeed a leopard Gibbie. He looks
> beautiful and healthy and we are going to keep him until it is no longer
> healthy for him or the "tank" for him to stay. I hope after that to
> find a good and "better home and garden for him". As for a replacement
> aglae-eater I will then try to get a nice clown pleco who can handle the
> algae but not overgrow the tank.
>
> Thanks again for the advice (a shout out to you and everyone else that
> took time to respond).

You're welcome. Glad you figured out what fish you have. I hope you
can keep him happy until you fall in love with him and buy him a 70
gallon tank. ;-) Your gibbie will need a lot of food as he grows.
Watch his belly when he sucks onto the glass. It should always be flat
or slightly rounded. If his belly ever looks sunken, he needs more to eat.

I'd recommend an Ancistrus spp. (bushy nose pleco) rather than a clown
pleco for algae. Ancistrus grow to around 4-6" depending on the species
and are hard-working algae eaters. Many at fish stores are farmed
aquarium hybrids and very hardy.

The problem with "clown pleco" is that the common name is applied to a
lot of similar looking fish with different behaviors and dietary
requirements. The L168 swarvegorilla recommends is one that eats algae
well. Unfortunately, "clown pleco" also includes Peckoltias like L305,
L121, and P. vittata. Peckoltia spp. are omnivorous and not
particularly good algae eaters. The Peckoltia I had not only failed to
eat algae, but hid constantly. Panaque maccus is also commonly sold as
a clown pleco, and it is a wood eating fish that requires driftwood in
its tank.

The FAQs are quite good. The lighting section is a bit dated now
because it was written before compact fluorescent fixtures were common.
All of the basic fishkeeping information is still correct - the
nitrogen cycle hasn't changed. ;-)

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Altum]

Koi-Lo wrote:

> I haven't seen one these in years, at any price. :(

Bummer. There are folks in town here who breed albino bushy noses. I
can get them on auction for $8-10. Cool looking fish.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mister Gardener]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:57:20 GMT, Altum >
wrote:

>Trevor Stenson wrote:
>
>> I checked out the aquaria faqs and bookmarked it. I'll try not to ask
>> redundant questions in future, although it might take awhile to go
>> through everything. Looks like a very useful site and since it is
>> written, I'm assuming, at least partially by group members I feel pretty
>> safe taking its advice. There are some many sites and opinions on the
>> web - it is hard to know what is good advice and what is complete bunkum.
>>
>> So thanks for that.
>>
>> As for the Pleco, my final word on it is that I'm going to slowly
>> reintroduce algae tablets and other food as necessary to make sure I'm
>> not underfeeding him. I got a good look at him in the open light and my
>> wife and I are convinced he is indeed a leopard Gibbie. He looks
>> beautiful and healthy and we are going to keep him until it is no longer
>> healthy for him or the "tank" for him to stay. I hope after that to
>> find a good and "better home and garden for him". As for a replacement
>> aglae-eater I will then try to get a nice clown pleco who can handle the
>> algae but not overgrow the tank.
>>
>> Thanks again for the advice (a shout out to you and everyone else that
>> took time to respond).
>
>You're welcome. Glad you figured out what fish you have. I hope you
>can keep him happy until you fall in love with him and buy him a 70
>gallon tank. ;-) Your gibbie will need a lot of food as he grows.
>Watch his belly when he sucks onto the glass. It should always be flat
>or slightly rounded. If his belly ever looks sunken, he needs more to eat.
>
>I'd recommend an Ancistrus spp. (bushy nose pleco) rather than a clown
>pleco for algae. Ancistrus grow to around 4-6" depending on the species
>and are hard-working algae eaters. Many at fish stores are farmed
>aquarium hybrids and very hardy.
>
>The problem with "clown pleco" is that the common name is applied to a
>lot of similar looking fish with different behaviors and dietary
>requirements. The L168 swarvegorilla recommends is one that eats algae
>well. Unfortunately, "clown pleco" also includes Peckoltias like L305,
>L121, and P. vittata. Peckoltia spp. are omnivorous and not
>particularly good algae eaters. The Peckoltia I had not only failed to
>eat algae, but hid constantly. Panaque maccus is also commonly sold as
>a clown pleco, and it is a wood eating fish that requires driftwood in
>its tank.
>
>The FAQs are quite good. The lighting section is a bit dated now
>because it was written before compact fluorescent fixtures were common.
> All of the basic fishkeeping information is still correct - the
>nitrogen cycle hasn't changed. ;-)

A note for Trevor here: Scientific names are a real pain in the anal
fin, but especially with certain groups of fish, they are very
important, as you may have gathered from Altum's words above. Fish
people are discovering new suckermouth catfish at such a rate these
days that they are unable to keep up with naming them properly so they
are given numbers, like L168, etc, waiting their turn to get real
names. This is happening with a couple of other kinds of fish we keep,
but the majority of fish in our aquariums have been well identified
and named both scientifically and commonly. Common names do get used
for more than one fish on occasion, even among the well established
fish, so it can be helpful if you at least give it a try and learn to
recognize the scientific name of your fishes. You don't have to
memorize them or learn to pronounce them, but once you discover them,
write them in your notebook, or in your favorite fish book.

And to emphasize a point from Altum's descriptions above, many,
probably most, sucker mouthed catfish need wood in their diet. When a
description says that you need wood in your tank, this does not mean
wood as a decoration, but wood for the fish to eat. The precise
function of wood in the diet of these fish is still not completely
clear, but we know they need it. And there are a few that don't seem
to need wood, but when in doubt, I put driftwood in all of my tanks
because I know that sooner or later I will probably fall in love with
some sucker mouth and add it to one tank or another.

And you are correct that some of the people who put together The Krib
are regular readers and posters in this newsgroup and others. The Krib
presents the nuts and bolts of aquarium keeping, the newsgroups keep
you up to date on new applications and new technology that have come
along since the FAQs were written. Before you begin working on your
2007 Dodge HEMI engine, you need to understand the basic Briggs and
Stratton on your lawn mower.

-- Mister Gardener

[JeffinMS]

"swarvegorilla" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Yes, he will outgrow the tank and yes he will produce far more waste than
> you want to deal with in there..
> The rainbow shark will also prob get a bit aggro.
>
>

Mine is in a 20, he is now 8 inches long and too big to hide in his cave.
Lays sideways to fit. I have two people who wants him. One with 100 and one
with a 55. But he has to go, more for the fish's sake than anything. He is
now longer than half the depth and width of the tank.

[swarvegorilla]

Yes but new import here.... then they banned them again! then they let
them back in a few months ago.
A cheap price to pay for a 5cm is about $60 oz
Zebra plecs are a lot lot more



"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "swarvegorilla" > wrote in message
> u...
> Some good
>> stuff to be had but a lot is very expensive.
>> clown plec for example is a poor substitute for a zebra plec, but they
>> are expensive little buggers they are!!
> ===================
> My clown plecos were only $2 more than the regular plecos.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
>

[swarvegorilla]

"Altum" > wrote in message
om...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>
>> I haven't seen one these in years, at any price. :(
>
> Bummer. There are folks in town here who breed albino bushy noses. I can
> get them on auction for $8-10. Cool looking fish.
>

bushynose = bristlenose?
ye old ancistrus dolichopterus?
I breed these by the hundred. $1 a cm. Although lately I just trade for
food.
Like feeding me fish good food but I don't enjoy buying it.

[Mister Gardener]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:06:02 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>
>"Altum" > wrote in message
om...
>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't seen one these in years, at any price. :(
>>
>> Bummer. There are folks in town here who breed albino bushy noses. I can
>> get them on auction for $8-10. Cool looking fish.
>>
>
>bushynose = bristlenose?
>ye old ancistrus dolichopterus?
>I breed these by the hundred. $1 a cm. Although lately I just trade for
>food.
>Like feeding me fish good food but I don't enjoy buying it.
>
I like that method of pricing. Makes good sense. I'll keep it in mind
when I get around to dickering price with lfs in the future. It's
going to be a while, however, because bushy bristle ancistrus have
become scarce around here in recent months. I have a couple of
handsome males, just waiting at the entrance to the cave, but no
females to join them for a romantic evening. (To clarify before
someone comments, the males are in separate aquariums.)

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/
For Killfile FAQs visit
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[Altum]

swarvegorilla wrote:
> "Altum" > wrote in message
> om...
>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't seen one these in years, at any price. :(
>> Bummer. There are folks in town here who breed albino bushy noses. I can
>> get them on auction for $8-10. Cool looking fish.
>>
>
> bushynose = bristlenose?
> ye old ancistrus dolichopterus?

Yep. That's the fish.

> I breed these by the hundred. $1 a cm. Although lately I just trade for
> food.
> Like feeding me fish good food but I don't enjoy buying it.

I usually trade plants for food. Mosses are surprisingly valuable and
easy to grow.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mister Gardener]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:59:57 GMT, Altum >
wrote:

>swarvegorilla wrote:
>> "Altum" > wrote in message
>> om...
>>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>>
>>>> I haven't seen one these in years, at any price. :(
>>> Bummer. There are folks in town here who breed albino bushy noses. I can
>>> get them on auction for $8-10. Cool looking fish.
>>>
>>
>> bushynose = bristlenose?
>> ye old ancistrus dolichopterus?
>
>Yep. That's the fish.
>
>> I breed these by the hundred. $1 a cm. Although lately I just trade for
>> food.
>> Like feeding me fish good food but I don't enjoy buying it.
>
>I usually trade plants for food. Mosses are surprisingly valuable and
>easy to grow.

The fuel crisis may be giving a helping hand to home breeders. I was
talking with my lfs today and he was telling me about the price
increases he is dealing with every time he gets a new order of fish.
He said the big fish farms have been holding the prices down fairly
well so far, but the network of middle people involved in bringing
live caught fish to the distributors has been adding on some
outrageous increases. Quite a number of common fish are still live
caught, including the hatchet fish I bought this week and many bushy
nosed ancistrus. Hometown breeders provide an economical alternative
and are becoming more in demand around here with each new increase of
fuel prices. He said price hikes have recently forced him to change
suppliers for his marine fish, worse than the live caught freshwater
suppliers.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On 18 Apr 2006 13:57:23 -0700, "Adam" >
wrote:

>Regional differences must make a huge impact as well (speaking to Mr.
>Gardner's comment on home breeders). After doing some reading on Zebra
>Plecos, it seems one could make a killing if they could get a viable
>breeding pair. I checked out a different lfs last night that had some
>great cats (fish) and zebra (plecos) came up. He claimed that he could
>get them well under the $100 per fry that they seem to be going for on
>fish auction web sites. I have also seen bushy/bristle the last few
>times I have been shopping here in New England.

We've discussed previously the increasing number of bushy noses that
are arriving with health problems. My lfs told me that his supplier
informed him he's not going to be getting any for a while, until he
starts seeing healthier fish coming through. This particular supplier
services all of the fish sellers in this region, so for now, they are
not available in Northern New England - except those that the big box
stores may be bringing in from their own distributors. I wasn't sure
if I was asking for trade secrets when I asked him if there are
numerous suppliers or if all of his competitors get their fish from
the same place. His answer was same place. He said the biggies like
Petco have their own suppliers, several main distribution points set
up across the country, keeping their costs down by purchasing in mega
quantities and having them delivered to just a handful of distribution
centers. I enjoy picking my lfs' brain and trying to learn as much as
I can about the supply and distribution system; I'm interested in what
comes from where, Asian fish farms, Florida farms, and wild caught.
A reliable home breeder of any number of different species could pick
up some nice change linking up with a couple of mom and pop stores.

-- Mister Gardener

[swarvegorilla]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On 18 Apr 2006 13:57:23 -0700, "Adam" >
> wrote:
>
>>Regional differences must make a huge impact as well (speaking to Mr.
>>Gardner's comment on home breeders). After doing some reading on Zebra
>>Plecos, it seems one could make a killing if they could get a viable
>>breeding pair. I checked out a different lfs last night that had some
>>great cats (fish) and zebra (plecos) came up. He claimed that he could
>>get them well under the $100 per fry that they seem to be going for on
>>fish auction web sites. I have also seen bushy/bristle the last few
>>times I have been shopping here in New England.
>
> We've discussed previously the increasing number of bushy noses that
> are arriving with health problems. My lfs told me that his supplier
> informed him he's not going to be getting any for a while, until he
> starts seeing healthier fish coming through. This particular supplier
> services all of the fish sellers in this region, so for now, they are
> not available in Northern New England - except those that the big box
> stores may be bringing in from their own distributors. I wasn't sure
> if I was asking for trade secrets when I asked him if there are
> numerous suppliers or if all of his competitors get their fish from
> the same place. His answer was same place. He said the biggies like
> Petco have their own suppliers, several main distribution points set
> up across the country, keeping their costs down by purchasing in mega
> quantities and having them delivered to just a handful of distribution
> centers. I enjoy picking my lfs' brain and trying to learn as much as
> I can about the supply and distribution system; I'm interested in what
> comes from where, Asian fish farms, Florida farms, and wild caught.
> A reliable home breeder of any number of different species could pick
> up some nice change linking up with a couple of mom and pop stores.
>
> -- Mister Gardener


Every country has lots of wholesalers.
I mean **** I'm in backwards Oz and I buy from 4 freshwater wholesalers and
2 marine.
If theres a drought on bristlys you should definitely start breedint them.
Bloody easy dude, doesn't have to be pretty either.
Could make ya some good cash, they can go in almost any tank and sell better
than guppys even.

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:44:33 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On 18 Apr 2006 13:57:23 -0700, "Adam" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Regional differences must make a huge impact as well (speaking to Mr.
>>>Gardner's comment on home breeders). After doing some reading on Zebra
>>>Plecos, it seems one could make a killing if they could get a viable
>>>breeding pair. I checked out a different lfs last night that had some
>>>great cats (fish) and zebra (plecos) came up. He claimed that he could
>>>get them well under the $100 per fry that they seem to be going for on
>>>fish auction web sites. I have also seen bushy/bristle the last few
>>>times I have been shopping here in New England.
>>
>> We've discussed previously the increasing number of bushy noses that
>> are arriving with health problems. My lfs told me that his supplier
>> informed him he's not going to be getting any for a while, until he
>> starts seeing healthier fish coming through. This particular supplier
>> services all of the fish sellers in this region, so for now, they are
>> not available in Northern New England - except those that the big box
>> stores may be bringing in from their own distributors. I wasn't sure
>> if I was asking for trade secrets when I asked him if there are
>> numerous suppliers or if all of his competitors get their fish from
>> the same place. His answer was same place. He said the biggies like
>> Petco have their own suppliers, several main distribution points set
>> up across the country, keeping their costs down by purchasing in mega
>> quantities and having them delivered to just a handful of distribution
>> centers. I enjoy picking my lfs' brain and trying to learn as much as
>> I can about the supply and distribution system; I'm interested in what
>> comes from where, Asian fish farms, Florida farms, and wild caught.
>> A reliable home breeder of any number of different species could pick
>> up some nice change linking up with a couple of mom and pop stores.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
>
>Every country has lots of wholesalers.
>I mean **** I'm in backwards Oz and I buy from 4 freshwater wholesalers and
>2 marine.
>If theres a drought on bristlys you should definitely start breedint them.
>Bloody easy dude, doesn't have to be pretty either.
>Could make ya some good cash, they can go in almost any tank and sell better
>than guppys even.
>
Yeah, I know. I'm keeping my eyes and ears open for them. A year ago,
heck, a few months ago, there were everywhere, now all I am seeing is
"common pl*co" in all the stores. Wherever I go from here is a long
drive, and I've given up on telephoning shops. "Aunt Sister Who?"
"Bushy what." "Female Pleco, you've got to be kidding, Mister."

You are from down under, eh? I've read that you guys have some pretty
strict laws about what comes into and goes out of your country. Is it
as tight as they say? (I'm speaking of fish coming in and going out.)

-- Mister Gardener

[swarvegorilla]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:44:33 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> On 18 Apr 2006 13:57:23 -0700, "Adam" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Regional differences must make a huge impact as well (speaking to Mr.
>>>>Gardner's comment on home breeders). After doing some reading on Zebra
>>>>Plecos, it seems one could make a killing if they could get a viable
>>>>breeding pair. I checked out a different lfs last night that had some
>>>>great cats (fish) and zebra (plecos) came up. He claimed that he could
>>>>get them well under the $100 per fry that they seem to be going for on
>>>>fish auction web sites. I have also seen bushy/bristle the last few
>>>>times I have been shopping here in New England.
>>>
>>> We've discussed previously the increasing number of bushy noses that
>>> are arriving with health problems. My lfs told me that his supplier
>>> informed him he's not going to be getting any for a while, until he
>>> starts seeing healthier fish coming through. This particular supplier
>>> services all of the fish sellers in this region, so for now, they are
>>> not available in Northern New England - except those that the big box
>>> stores may be bringing in from their own distributors. I wasn't sure
>>> if I was asking for trade secrets when I asked him if there are
>>> numerous suppliers or if all of his competitors get their fish from
>>> the same place. His answer was same place. He said the biggies like
>>> Petco have their own suppliers, several main distribution points set
>>> up across the country, keeping their costs down by purchasing in mega
>>> quantities and having them delivered to just a handful of distribution
>>> centers. I enjoy picking my lfs' brain and trying to learn as much as
>>> I can about the supply and distribution system; I'm interested in what
>>> comes from where, Asian fish farms, Florida farms, and wild caught.
>>> A reliable home breeder of any number of different species could pick
>>> up some nice change linking up with a couple of mom and pop stores.
>>>
>>> -- Mister Gardener
>>
>>
>>Every country has lots of wholesalers.
>>I mean **** I'm in backwards Oz and I buy from 4 freshwater wholesalers
>>and
>>2 marine.
>>If theres a drought on bristlys you should definitely start breedint them.
>>Bloody easy dude, doesn't have to be pretty either.
>>Could make ya some good cash, they can go in almost any tank and sell
>>better
>>than guppys even.
>>
> Yeah, I know. I'm keeping my eyes and ears open for them. A year ago,
> heck, a few months ago, there were everywhere, now all I am seeing is
> "common pl*co" in all the stores. Wherever I go from here is a long
> drive, and I've given up on telephoning shops. "Aunt Sister Who?"
> "Bushy what." "Female Pleco, you've got to be kidding, Mister."
>
> You are from down under, eh? I've read that you guys have some pretty
> strict laws about what comes into and goes out of your country. Is it
> as tight as they say? (I'm speaking of fish coming in and going out.)
>
> -- Mister Gardener


Yea strict on many things but heck we have a fair amount of variety and as
long as people breed **** thats already here we should be right.
:-)
I mean we also have the great barrier reef to harvest so we get many marine
you guys would NEVER see. So evens out I recon.
:-)

[JonathonSpencer]

Gibbies are often sold as "common plecos". Mislabeling is rampant at
the big chains. Big gibbies are gorgeous fish. To tell a little gibbie
from a common pleco, look for the spotted patterning on the fin and
back. Gibbies also have a large dorsal that's given them the name of
sailfin.



Hi,

I checked out the aquaria faqs and bookmarked it. I'll try not to ask
redundant questions in future, although it might take awhile to go
through everything. Looks like a very useful site and since it is
written, I'm assuming, at least partially by group members I feel pretty
safe taking its advice. There are some many sites and opinions on the
web - it is hard to know what is good advice and what is complete bunkum.

So thanks for that.

As for the Pleco, my final word on it is that I'm going to slowly
reintroduce algae tablets and other food as necessary to make sure I'm
not underfeeding him. I got a good look at him in the open led light (http://www.niceledlights.com) and my
wife and I are convinced he is indeed a leopard Gibbie. He looks
beautiful and healthy and we are going to keep him until it is no longer
healthy for him or the "tank" for him to stay. I hope after that to
find a good and "better home and garden for him". As for a replacement
aglae-eater I will then try to get a nice clown pleco who can handle the
algae but not overgrow the tank.

Thanks again for the advice (a shout out to you and everyone else that
took time to respond).

TS

--
Trevor Stenson

http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Digs.html
http://members.shaw.ca/kitschy/Blog/Blog.html
hello friend can you share some pics of your aqua.. I am looking to build a new one so it will help me alot.. Waiting for reply thanks in advance:)