Near disaster this morning.........I think.

[JeffinMS]

Woke up and fed the fish, didnt notice anything unusual. Sat down to the
news and coffee, looked over and every fish in the tank was at the top of
the water, all at the same time. For a split second I thought it was
humorous they were all eating at the same time until I noticed that they
werent eating. They were doing something else, looked like they were trying
to get out or something! The Plec, which is about 8 inches long and usualy
does nothing was all over the tank. I ran over and looked and the pump was
not working, double and triple checked everything and it was just burned up.
Took me an hour to get to PetSmart to get a new one (An Aquaclear 150) and
another 10 minutes to get it set up. I did a 50% water change, replaced the
filters (Had to, the new 150's are different size from the old 150s) and am
now waiting. I did lose one Blue tetra but the other fish seem to be back to
normal with the exception of the Plec which is all over the tank. So, what
should I expect. What could be wrong with the Plec? Was the water change
(The water had turned brown in that hour and a half) the correct thing to do
or should I have just changed the filter and pump?

TIA
Jeff

[pausto]

JeffinMS wrote:
>
> Woke up and fed the fish, didnt notice anything unusual. Sat down to the
> news and coffee, looked over and every fish in the tank was at the top of
> the water, all at the same time. For a split second I thought it was
> humorous they were all eating at the same time until I noticed that they
> werent eating. They were doing something else, looked like they were trying
> to get out or something! The Plec, which is about 8 inches long and usualy
> does nothing was all over the tank. I ran over and looked and the pump was
> not working, double and triple checked everything and it was just burned up.
> Took me an hour to get to PetSmart to get a new one (An Aquaclear 150) and
> another 10 minutes to get it set up. I did a 50% water change, replaced the
> filters (Had to, the new 150's are different size from the old 150s) and am
> now waiting. I did lose one Blue tetra but the other fish seem to be back to
> normal with the exception of the Plec which is all over the tank. So, what
> should I expect. What could be wrong with the Plec? Was the water change
> (The water had turned brown in that hour and a half) the correct thing to do
> or should I have just changed the filter and pump?
>
> TIA
> Jeff

If you didn't already, do what ever you can to fit the filter
media from the old filter into the new filter. Test for ammonia
and nitrite, and change water as needed to keep the levels down.
Feed sparingly.

Tap your foot

[JeffinMS]

"pausto" > wrote in message
...
> If you didn't already, do what ever you can to fit the filter
> media from the old filter into the new filter. Test for ammonia
> and nitrite, and change water as needed to keep the levels down.
> Feed sparingly.
>
> Tap your foot

OK, I took it out of the trash, cut it to fit the new pump and replaced the
new one with the old one. I know someone in the past told me to use the old
filter. Can you or someone tell me again why I would want to use the old
filter?

Thanks
Jeff

[Mariachi]

All the good bacteria you want lives in the old filter material if you
just put in new filter material your tank will probably cycle.

[swarvegorilla]

"Mariachi" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> All the good bacteria you want lives in the old filter material if you
> just put in new filter material your tank will probably cycle.
>

Cycle = spikes of bad chems (ammonia and nitrite) = death of fish
Bacteria are the type of filtration that transforms lethal chemicals into
less toxic ones (nitrate)
The other form of filtration is 'removal' where waste is removed from the
tank. Protien skimmers, vege filters, cleaning mechanical sponges, gravel
vac'ing are all methods of removal of waste.
Your other concern of course is water movement and Oxygen levels. With a
nice disturbed water surface much more Oxygen enters the water and higher
Oxygen levels mean higher levels of bacteria activity.
Blackouts will kill bacteria in cannister filters thru Oxygen deprivation.
Big sudden PH changes will wipe out even trickle filters. Washing sponges in
chlorinated tap water will also erase the good guys.
There is a lot to be said for keeping a good population of bacteria going.
Sure you can buy super bacteria in a bottle but these are surprisingly
rarely as effective as the local species that colonise our tanks.
Just takes time.
Is a handy thing to understand, the nitrate cycle.
When it goes wrong 2 qucik tips.

Fish at surface, gasping..... low Oxygen or there is an ammonia spike in
the tank. It is irritating the fishes gills=mucus coating=gills stuck
together unable to remove Oxygen from water effectively.
Fish on bottem, gasping..... low temperature or there is a nitrite spike in
the tank. The nitrite saturates the fishes body, very nasty. Fish often have
very nice colours tho... :-(

In both cases a water change will help your fish short term, however it will
slow down the filter. The filter bacteria like all that ammonia/nitrite
stuff.
In a bad case spike I am often more inclined to remove the fish to a stable
tank, or even a bucket and move them back when I detect 0 ammonia and 0
nitrite.
Extreme maybe but some of me fishys are expensive. They don't stay in tanks
with ammonia or nitrite. Kinda a rule that has worked so far.
Anyway thats my take, netmax has some good reading on his site about the
whole nitrate cycle thing too. Worded a bit better too prob!
:-)

[Daniel Morrow]

Bottom posted.
"swarvegorilla" > wrote in message
u...
>
> "Mariachi" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > All the good bacteria you want lives in the old filter material if you
> > just put in new filter material your tank will probably cycle.
> >
>
> Cycle = spikes of bad chems (ammonia and nitrite) = death of fish
> Bacteria are the type of filtration that transforms lethal chemicals into
> less toxic ones (nitrate)
> The other form of filtration is 'removal' where waste is removed from the
> tank. Protien skimmers, vege filters, cleaning mechanical sponges, gravel
> vac'ing are all methods of removal of waste.
> Your other concern of course is water movement and Oxygen levels. With a
> nice disturbed water surface much more Oxygen enters the water and higher
> Oxygen levels mean higher levels of bacteria activity.
> Blackouts will kill bacteria in cannister filters thru Oxygen deprivation.
> Big sudden PH changes will wipe out even trickle filters. Washing sponges
in
> chlorinated tap water will also erase the good guys.
> There is a lot to be said for keeping a good population of bacteria going.
> Sure you can buy super bacteria in a bottle but these are surprisingly
> rarely as effective as the local species that colonise our tanks.
> Just takes time.
> Is a handy thing to understand, the nitrate cycle.
> When it goes wrong 2 qucik tips.
>
> Fish at surface, gasping..... low Oxygen or there is an ammonia spike in
> the tank. It is irritating the fishes gills=mucus coating=gills stuck
> together unable to remove Oxygen from water effectively.
> Fish on bottem, gasping..... low temperature or there is a nitrite spike
in
> the tank. The nitrite saturates the fishes body, very nasty. Fish often
have
> very nice colours tho... :-(
>
> In both cases a water change will help your fish short term, however it
will
> slow down the filter. The filter bacteria like all that ammonia/nitrite
> stuff.
> In a bad case spike I am often more inclined to remove the fish to a
stable
> tank, or even a bucket and move them back when I detect 0 ammonia and 0
> nitrite.
> Extreme maybe but some of me fishys are expensive. They don't stay in
tanks
> with ammonia or nitrite. Kinda a rule that has worked so far.
> Anyway thats my take, netmax has some good reading on his site about the
> whole nitrate cycle thing too. Worded a bit better too prob!
> :-)
>
>

I made one mistake you all should learn from me about a month ago. I forgot
to bring the tank filling water to the fish's existing water temperature
(thus it was cold water I refilled my fancy guppy/turtles' tank with) (and
turtles') and soon after I added the cold water the entire population of my
fancy guppies in my turtle tank (sort of expendable though) totally shut
down. A few minutes later they all looked fine after seemingly at the time
coming back to life. I know of no damage or lost fish from this experience
but everyone should take heed to what I experienced and frankly imported
water temperature is extremely important to have the same as what water
(temperature) is left. Good luck and later!

[Beano]

Gees I love guppies, they are so tough! I remember once many years
ago, I forgot to put dechlorinator in my replacement water when I was
cleaning out the tank - I realised after about 5 minutes, when I saw
the neons going belly up - I lost 4 out of my 5 neons - but the
guppies, they were swimming around merrily as they usually did! It was
almost like they were saying "bring it on!" They were fancy guppies
too.

The guppies we used to catch from the local creek used to breed in our
chlorinated tap water, that was 15 years ago though, tap water has
probably got more chemicals in it since then...

[Nikki]

"Beano" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Gees I love guppies, they are so tough! I remember once many years
> ago, I forgot to put dechlorinator in my replacement water when I was
> cleaning out the tank - I realised after about 5 minutes, when I saw
> the neons going belly up - I lost 4 out of my 5 neons - but the
> guppies, they were swimming around merrily as they usually did! It was
> almost like they were saying "bring it on!" They were fancy guppies
> too.
>
> The guppies we used to catch from the local creek used to breed in our
> chlorinated tap water, that was 15 years ago though, tap water has
> probably got more chemicals in it since then...
>

You know to be honest i kept my fancy guppies for months before i started
using the dechlorinator in the water, they were fine, i even kept fry in the
same water, not saying any one should but i did, my pacu went a lot of time
with out it like 5-8 years before i knew to use it, and he lived a very
long life.
i use it now because i should but i did not see no difference between using
it an not using it in my fishes health.
me and my husband were trying to figure out how long our pacu lived......
and we know he was big at least a foot before i had my first son 13 years
ago, pacu died last year, and i never once put meds, or anything else other
then food in his tank, we kept the water very clean because of the stuff he
liked to eat, but that was it. Maybe we have good water here in pittsburgh,
who knows...I would not drink the stuff
Nik

[Dale Henderson]

>>>>> "Beano" == Beano > writes:

Beano> The guppies we used to catch from the local creek used to breed
Beano> in our chlorinated tap water, that was 15 years ago though, tap
Beano> water has probably got more chemicals in it since then...

The guppies you caught where probably Mosquitofish. They're
practically indestructable.

[Altum]

Nikki wrote:
> "Beano" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Gees I love guppies, they are so tough! I remember once many years
>> ago, I forgot to put dechlorinator in my replacement water when I was
>> cleaning out the tank - I realised after about 5 minutes, when I saw
>> the neons going belly up - I lost 4 out of my 5 neons - but the
>> guppies, they were swimming around merrily as they usually did! It was
>> almost like they were saying "bring it on!" They were fancy guppies
>> too.
>>
>> The guppies we used to catch from the local creek used to breed in our
>> chlorinated tap water, that was 15 years ago though, tap water has
>> probably got more chemicals in it since then...
>>
>
> You know to be honest i kept my fancy guppies for months before i started
> using the dechlorinator in the water, they were fine, i even kept fry in the
> same water, not saying any one should but i did, my pacu went a lot of time
> with out it like 5-8 years before i knew to use it, and he lived a very
> long life.
> i use it now because i should but i did not see no difference between using
> it an not using it in my fishes health.
> me and my husband were trying to figure out how long our pacu lived......
> and we know he was big at least a foot before i had my first son 13 years
> ago, pacu died last year, and i never once put meds, or anything else other
> then food in his tank, we kept the water very clean because of the stuff he
> liked to eat, but that was it. Maybe we have good water here in pittsburgh,
> who knows...I would not drink the stuff
> Nik

I miss plain old chlorine. I used to top off my tanks and do small
water changes without dechlor. Clorine reacts with dissolved organics
and kills off opportunistic bacteria, gently cleaning the tank. Now I
have water with chloramine. It's horribly toxic to sensitive creatures
like otocinclus and shrimp and there's no way I can even consider a
water change without AmQuel.

When I first set up a tank here, I aerated the water for 24 hours
expecting it to be safe. I lost the first fish I bought before I could
even figure out what was happening. :-(

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mister Gardener]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:18:44 GMT, Altum >
wrote:

>I miss plain old chlorine. I used to top off my tanks and do small
>water changes without dechlor. Clorine reacts with dissolved organics
>and kills off opportunistic bacteria, gently cleaning the tank. Now I
>have water with chloramine. It's horribly toxic to sensitive creatures
>like otocinclus and shrimp and there's no way I can even consider a
>water change without AmQuel.
>
>When I first set up a tank here, I aerated the water for 24 hours
>expecting it to be safe. I lost the first fish I bought before I could
>even figure out what was happening. :-(

I was jubilant when the woman at the water company told me that
chloramines are not added to my water. When I do water changes, I
leave the HOB filters running, and they create a good bit of
splashing. When I add the fresh water from the tap, I keep the hose
raised enough so that the water splashes when it hits the surface. All
that splashing probably gets rid of most of my chlorine right then and
there. And since I don't have chloramines to worry about, I can buy
the cheapest dechlor product with recommending dosage measured in
milliliters rather than capsful or ounces.

-- Mister Gardener

Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
http://www.thekrib.com/
For Killfile FAQs visit
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[Gill Passman]

Mister Gardener wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:18:44 GMT, Altum >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I miss plain old chlorine. I used to top off my tanks and do small
>>water changes without dechlor. Clorine reacts with dissolved organics
>>and kills off opportunistic bacteria, gently cleaning the tank. Now I
>>have water with chloramine. It's horribly toxic to sensitive creatures
>>like otocinclus and shrimp and there's no way I can even consider a
>>water change without AmQuel.
>>
>>When I first set up a tank here, I aerated the water for 24 hours
>>expecting it to be safe. I lost the first fish I bought before I could
>>even figure out what was happening. :-(
>
>
> I was jubilant when the woman at the water company told me that
> chloramines are not added to my water. When I do water changes, I
> leave the HOB filters running, and they create a good bit of
> splashing. When I add the fresh water from the tap, I keep the hose
> raised enough so that the water splashes when it hits the surface. All
> that splashing probably gets rid of most of my chlorine right then and
> there. And since I don't have chloramines to worry about, I can buy
> the cheapest dechlor product with recommending dosage measured in
> milliliters rather than capsful or ounces.
>
> -- Mister Gardener
>
> Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
> http://www.thekrib.com/
> For Killfile FAQs visit
> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

I don't know if my water contains chloramines or not...it certainly is
chlorinated and I presume also contains heavy metals (maybe) - so I play
on the safe side and use a water conditioner (by the bottle load today -
just having done the 6 foot tank and one of the 4 foot tanks)....

Gill

[Mister Gardener]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:28:05 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>
>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>> Mister Gardener wrote:
>>> On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:18:44 GMT, Altum >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I miss plain old chlorine. I used to top off my tanks and do small water
>>>>changes without dechlor. Clorine reacts with dissolved organics and
>>>>kills off opportunistic bacteria, gently cleaning the tank. Now I have
>>>>water with chloramine. It's horribly toxic to sensitive creatures like
>>>>otocinclus and shrimp and there's no way I can even consider a water
>>>>change without AmQuel.
>>>>
>>>>When I first set up a tank here, I aerated the water for 24 hours
>>>>expecting it to be safe. I lost the first fish I bought before I could
>>>>even figure out what was happening. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>> I was jubilant when the woman at the water company told me that
>>> chloramines are not added to my water. When I do water changes, I
>>> leave the HOB filters running, and they create a good bit of
>>> splashing. When I add the fresh water from the tap, I keep the hose
>>> raised enough so that the water splashes when it hits the surface. All
>>> that splashing probably gets rid of most of my chlorine right then and
>>> there. And since I don't have chloramines to worry about, I can buy
>>> the cheapest dechlor product with recommending dosage measured in
>>> milliliters rather than capsful or ounces.
>>>
>>> -- Mister Gardener
>>>
>>> Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
>>> http://www.thekrib.com/
>>> For Killfile FAQs visit
>>> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
>>
>> I don't know if my water contains chloramines or not...it certainly is
>> chlorinated and I presume also contains heavy metals (maybe) - so I play
>> on the safe side and use a water conditioner (by the bottle load today -
>> just having done the 6 foot tank and one of the 4 foot tanks)....
>>
>> Gill
>
>Our water has serious issues. Lots of ammonia/chloramine and sometimes
>around 2ppm nitrite.
>It messed with my tanks for a while, until I worked out I could pump it thru
>a bucket of zeo-lite (used to suck ammonia/kiddy wee- outta swimming pool
>water).
>Now I try let it age at least 24 hours and have had far less loses.
>Have even been playing around at adding a cup of tea (english
>breakfast/dilmah etc) well a teabag anyway to 200L barrels of water. Has not
>seemed to phase fish much and is slightly ahead of the control in keeping
>hordes of neons alive.
>
Explain please: The tea.

-- Mister Gardener

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:28:05 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>>> Mister Gardener wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:18:44 GMT, Altum >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I miss plain old chlorine. I used to top off my tanks and do small
>>>>>water
>>>>>changes without dechlor. Clorine reacts with dissolved organics and
>>>>>kills off opportunistic bacteria, gently cleaning the tank. Now I have
>>>>>water with chloramine. It's horribly toxic to sensitive creatures like
>>>>>otocinclus and shrimp and there's no way I can even consider a water
>>>>>change without AmQuel.
>>>>>
>>>>>When I first set up a tank here, I aerated the water for 24 hours
>>>>>expecting it to be safe. I lost the first fish I bought before I could
>>>>>even figure out what was happening. :-(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was jubilant when the woman at the water company told me that
>>>> chloramines are not added to my water. When I do water changes, I
>>>> leave the HOB filters running, and they create a good bit of
>>>> splashing. When I add the fresh water from the tap, I keep the hose
>>>> raised enough so that the water splashes when it hits the surface. All
>>>> that splashing probably gets rid of most of my chlorine right then and
>>>> there. And since I don't have chloramines to worry about, I can buy
>>>> the cheapest dechlor product with recommending dosage measured in
>>>> milliliters rather than capsful or ounces.
>>>>
>>>> -- Mister Gardener
>>>>
>>>> Everything Aquaria & Tropical Fish at The Krib:
>>>> http://www.thekrib.com/
>>>> For Killfile FAQs visit
>>>> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
>>>
>>> I don't know if my water contains chloramines or not...it certainly is
>>> chlorinated and I presume also contains heavy metals (maybe) - so I play
>>> on the safe side and use a water conditioner (by the bottle load today -
>>> just having done the 6 foot tank and one of the 4 foot tanks)....
>>>
>>> Gill
>>
>>Our water has serious issues. Lots of ammonia/chloramine and sometimes
>>around 2ppm nitrite.
>>It messed with my tanks for a while, until I worked out I could pump it
>>thru
>>a bucket of zeo-lite (used to suck ammonia/kiddy wee- outta swimming pool
>>water).
>>Now I try let it age at least 24 hours and have had far less loses.
>>Have even been playing around at adding a cup of tea (english
>>breakfast/dilmah etc) well a teabag anyway to 200L barrels of water. Has
>>not
>>seemed to phase fish much and is slightly ahead of the control in keeping
>>hordes of neons alive.
>>
> Explain please: The tea.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

maybe they are english fish
Nik

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>
> Explain please: The tea.
>
===================
Tea is acidic and tints the water for those keeping fish that like those
conditions (or so I read on some aqu site). Tea is cheap and non toxic as
the OP is using it.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:58:36 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> wrote:

>>>
>> Explain please: The tea.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
>Well when asian fish farms finally got the neons spawning big time their
>secret leaked out.
>Mullberry tea.
>We have very hard water so I use the tanic acid in tea to soften it a bit.
>Tea bags are very cheap and it didn't really seem much of a jump from the
>Indian Almond tea bags I use on the bettas some times.
>Anyway 3 deaths outta 200 for the tea tank compared to 6 outta the non-tea
>tank.
>2 weeks now and prob only 50 left unsold in each tank.
>so yea not lethal but not magic either.
>shrug
>
Any idea how these specific tea bags compare to ordinary peat?
The teabag thing interests me - I can see me lining up the different
teas, the green tea is for this tank, the black tea for those guys,
the Constant Comment for . . . no way, I wouldn't give that stuff to
my worst enemy, certainly not my fish.

-- Mister Gardener

[swarvegorilla]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:58:36 +1000, "swarvegorilla"
> > wrote:
>
>>>>
>>> Explain please: The tea.
>>>
>>> -- Mister Gardener
>>
>>Well when asian fish farms finally got the neons spawning big time their
>>secret leaked out.
>>Mullberry tea.
>>We have very hard water so I use the tanic acid in tea to soften it a bit.
>>Tea bags are very cheap and it didn't really seem much of a jump from the
>>Indian Almond tea bags I use on the bettas some times.
>>Anyway 3 deaths outta 200 for the tea tank compared to 6 outta the non-tea
>>tank.
>>2 weeks now and prob only 50 left unsold in each tank.
>>so yea not lethal but not magic either.
>>shrug
>>
> Any idea how these specific tea bags compare to ordinary peat?
> The teabag thing interests me - I can see me lining up the different
> teas, the green tea is for this tank, the black tea for those guys,
> the Constant Comment for . . . no way, I wouldn't give that stuff to
> my worst enemy, certainly not my fish.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

try and work out whats in black water extract then?
You can always add lead solution to a test cup and see how much white stuff
solidifys out of it.... will give you a chance to test tannins anyway.
Kinda ****y magic eperiment.
clear liquid to clear liquid and boom lots white gooey stuff
sorry no time to explain properly!