first attempt at discuss

[fat plumber]

like i mentioned iam getting ready to get my first discuss.the tank i will
be using will be a thirty gallon.first i must drasticly lower my ph.the
water out of the tap is usually around 8 where i live.iam thinking about
building a peat filled five gallon bucket with a pump and some sort of
homemade filter to filter out the peat particles to get my ph around 6.5.now
to my question.does the more peat that i use cause the ph of the water to
fall farther or does the more peat that i use just mean that i will have to
replace the peat less often.example,if i fill a five gallon bucket full of
peat will it drop the ph more than if the bucket was only half full,or would
i just half to change the peat less often.i hope this makes sense.

[Charles]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:58:57 -0500, "fat plumber"
> wrote:

>like i mentioned iam getting ready to get my first discuss.the tank i will
>be using will be a thirty gallon.first i must drasticly lower my ph.the
>water out of the tap is usually around 8 where i live.iam thinking about
>building a peat filled five gallon bucket with a pump and some sort of
>homemade filter to filter out the peat particles to get my ph around 6.5.now
>to my question.does the more peat that i use cause the ph of the water to
>fall farther or does the more peat that i use just mean that i will have to
>replace the peat less often.example,if i fill a five gallon bucket full of
>peat will it drop the ph more than if the bucket was only half full,or would
>i just half to change the peat less often.i hope this makes sense.
>
>
From what I've read, you can keep discus in that water, but probably
not breed them. If you really want to get the pH down, first get the
mineral content down. With hard alkaline water you can add lots of
acid and just keep pushing things around.

You can lower the mineral content by using RO water, or DI water from
a store. I've also read that the peat will remove some of the
minerals, I'm not certain of that. If you start manipulating the
water you have now you're in for a lot of work.

can you get a water quality analysis from your water supplier?

[Charles]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 23:38:55 -0500, "fat plumber"
> wrote:

(snip)
>>
>yes i can usually find it online usually the nitrites are pretty high since
>there is alot of runoff from farms that are in the area.the ph is usually
>listed around 8.i guess it is only a thirty gallon tank so bottled water
>wouldnt cost that much except for the initial filling.i was just looking for
>a way to recreate a natural enviorment as much as possible.
>
>
Ag run-off is usually nitrates, not nitrites, that would be unusual.
It also matters a bit why it has a high pH, my local water supplier
started adding sodium hydroxide to the water to raise the pH, That
should be easier to manipulate than pH from carbonates.

I hope some of the more knowledgeable people jump in here as well.

[Frank]

fat plumber wrote,
>first i must drasticly lower my ph.the
>water out of the tap is usually around 8 where i live.iam thinking about
>building a peat filled five gallon bucket with a pump and some sort of
>homemade filter to filter out the peat particles to get my ph around 6.5....

Sounds like you might be a plumber - install an RO unit... but, if your
stuck on building a peat filter; drill 1/4" holes 1/2" apart all over
the bottom of two 5 gal. plastic buckets. The first bucket is half
filled with peat moss placed over a tight 1.5" or 2" thick (or 3 or 4
layers of 1/2" thick, cut-to-fit foam sponge meterial that covers the
1/4" holes in the bottom of the bucket. Within the second bucket, a
1/2" thick tightly cut-to-fit foam sponge is placed over the 1/4"
holes, and the bucket is filled with 3" or 4" of a good activated
carbon. The carbon removes leached color, otherwise the water will be
brown. Peat moss removes heavy metals and calcium. The two buckets are
placed into a third bucket. This third bucket bottom is drilled for a
4" PVC floor stool ring to be installed with a foot long 4" PVC pipe
sticking out the bottom. The whole works is placed atop a 30 or 40 gal.
plastic trash can that's lid has been drilled for the 4" PVC pipe to
fit into. Mine was piped from a "Y" in the rain downspout, through a
basement window, and placed in the basement. The top bucket had a lid
drilled and set-up the same as the bottom bucket...
Another way to drop the pH is by using a few drops of hydrochloric
(muriatic) acid per gal. in a 5 gal. bucket. The acid will crash the pH
to 5.4, but will be real unstable untill after 24 hours, so you will
have to let it sit for that long. After 24 hours, add enough baking
soda to bring the pH back up to what ever you want...

>now to my question.does the more peat that i use cause the ph of the water to
>fall farther or does the more peat that i use just mean that i will have to
>eplace the peat less often...

You will just have to replace the peat less often........... Frank

[Altum]

fat plumber wrote:
> like i mentioned iam getting ready to get my first discuss.the tank i will
> be using will be a thirty gallon.first i must drasticly lower my ph.the
> water out of the tap is usually around 8 where i live.iam thinking about
> building a peat filled five gallon bucket with a pump and some sort of
> homemade filter to filter out the peat particles to get my ph around 6.5.now
> to my question.does the more peat that i use cause the ph of the water to
> fall farther or does the more peat that i use just mean that i will have to
> replace the peat less often.example,if i fill a five gallon bucket full of
> peat will it drop the ph more than if the bucket was only half full,or would
> i just half to change the peat less often.i hope this makes sense.

Thirty gallons? That's enough for one discus and some other fish or two
discus and no other fish. If you get two discus the fish should be a
M/F pair because two males might pick on each other. I'd recommend a 75
gallon tank to get started keeping discus. You can put four (or maybe
five) adult fish in the tank and the discus have enough room to move
around. It's much easier to keep discus in a large tank than a small one.

My pH 8 water is barely affected by peat. It depends on the carbonate
hardness but it's likely fairly high. Consider Seachem's Acid Buffer or
Discus Buffer if you must use your tap water.

You said you want to recreate the natural discus environment as much as
possible in your other post. The water where discus live is very soft
and has a low pH. It's called blackwater because it looks black from a
combination of tannic and humic acids and suspended particulates. It's
quite what you want in an aquarium but you can recreate it reasonably
well RO water and blackwater extract. Peat, coconut fiber, tea, or even
pesticide-free oak leaves from your backyard can be used to get the
tannic and humic acids.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[fat plumber]

"Frank" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> fat plumber wrote,
> >first i must drasticly lower my ph.the
> >water out of the tap is usually around 8 where i live.iam thinking about
> >building a peat filled five gallon bucket with a pump and some sort of
> >homemade filter to filter out the peat particles to get my ph around
6.5....
>
> Sounds like you might be a plumber - install an RO unit... but, if your
> stuck on building a peat filter; drill 1/4" holes 1/2" apart all over
> the bottom of two 5 gal. plastic buckets. The first bucket is half
> filled with peat moss placed over a tight 1.5" or 2" thick (or 3 or 4
> layers of 1/2" thick, cut-to-fit foam sponge meterial that covers the
> 1/4" holes in the bottom of the bucket. Within the second bucket, a
> 1/2" thick tightly cut-to-fit foam sponge is placed over the 1/4"
> holes, and the bucket is filled with 3" or 4" of a good activated
> carbon. The carbon removes leached color, otherwise the water will be
> brown. Peat moss removes heavy metals and calcium. The two buckets are
> placed into a third bucket. This third bucket bottom is drilled for a
> 4" PVC floor stool ring to be installed with a foot long 4" PVC pipe
> sticking out the bottom. The whole works is placed atop a 30 or 40 gal.
> plastic trash can that's lid has been drilled for the 4" PVC pipe to
> fit into. Mine was piped from a "Y" in the rain downspout, through a
> basement window, and placed in the basement. The top bucket had a lid
> drilled and set-up the same as the bottom bucket...
> Another way to drop the pH is by using a few drops of hydrochloric
> (muriatic) acid per gal. in a 5 gal. bucket. The acid will crash the pH
> to 5.4, but will be real unstable untill after 24 hours, so you will
> have to let it sit for that long. After 24 hours, add enough baking
> soda to bring the pH back up to what ever you want...
>
> >now to my question.does the more peat that i use cause the ph of the
water to
> >fall farther or does the more peat that i use just mean that i will have
to
> >eplace the peat less often...
>
> You will just have to replace the peat less often........... Frank
>
that is kind of what i was thinking but it sounds pretty complicated.plus
the fact that i was going to put it in the living room it would probably be
a little unattrective.iam just going to work with it.i think i will buy a
big filter that hangs off the back and stuff it with moss and have another
that works as a filter.will probably fill with bottled water.
thanks to everyone who responded.

[fish lover]

Discus needs lots of water changes. At least once a week at 30%. Some
people do daily WC or every three days. Bottled water would not work.
The cost will adds up very costly.

General rules for Discus:
10 g per adult fish
at least 4, 6 or 7 are better
temp 82f to 88f
ph 7 or less, sometimes you can get away with 7.5 but stable is the
key, no PH swings at WC
Be careful with tank mates, corys and attos are OK. Cardinal Tetras
are fine too.
An UV is a very good idea

Go to http://www.discusforums.com/forum/index.php
for additional information.


>
>"Charles" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:58:57 -0500, "fat plumber"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >like i mentioned iam getting ready to get my first discuss.the tank i
>will
>> >be using will be a thirty gallon.first i must drasticly lower my ph.the
>> >water out of the tap is usually around 8 where i live.iam thinking about
>> >building a peat filled five gallon bucket with a pump and some sort of
>> >homemade filter to filter out the peat particles to get my ph around
>6.5.now
>> >to my question.does the more peat that i use cause the ph of the water to
>> >fall farther or does the more peat that i use just mean that i will have
>to
>> >replace the peat less often.example,if i fill a five gallon bucket full
>of
>> >peat will it drop the ph more than if the bucket was only half full,or
>would
>> >i just half to change the peat less often.i hope this makes sense.
>> >
>> >
>> From what I've read, you can keep discus in that water, but probably
>> not breed them. If you really want to get the pH down, first get the
>> mineral content down. With hard alkaline water you can add lots of
>> acid and just keep pushing things around.
>>
>> You can lower the mineral content by using RO water, or DI water from
>> a store. I've also read that the peat will remove some of the
>> minerals, I'm not certain of that. If you start manipulating the
>> water you have now you're in for a lot of work.
>>
>> can you get a water quality analysis from your water supplier?
>>
>>
>yes i can usually find it online usually the nitrites are pretty high since
>there is alot of runoff from farms that are in the area.the ph is usually
>listed around 8.i guess it is only a thirty gallon tank so bottled water
>wouldnt cost that much except for the initial filling.i was just looking for
>a way to recreate a natural enviorment as much as possible.
>
>