New Angels, again

[Mister Gardener]

I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
other water parameters. There were 4 left in the tank from which I had
originally purchased, and they have grown noticeably in size. The girl
who had sold them to me previously came over and told me she
remembered me from before and I explained briefly what had happened to
them and she seemed really interested and pulled a little notepad from
her pocket and wrote down some stuff. She seems to be interested in
learning. I spent about a half hour studying them. Walked around the
store to change my focus and returned every 10 minutes or so. Each of
the four looked good. I got the girl to feed them. I did the quiet
little look at my finger on the glass, little fishy, and follow it
around, to which they all responded will. Each had a very small amount
of fin damage, that thin tissue between the rays, mostly caudal. The
original tank had been a mixed bag of more than one shipment, and the
remaining 4 were all very different. A gold, a black marble with a
strong orange cap, a smokey looking zebra, (I have to look this one up
for a better ID), and an ordinary silver angel. Obviously none of them
are pure anything. I asked the girl who asked the guy if there have
been any problems with this tank over the past couple of weeks. I told
him I was wondering about the fin damage. He went and brought over a
clipboard with the ammonia readings done daily and a pH and Nitrates
here and there, showed it to me, and everything looked good. So at
least he knew what he was looking for. We both knew the tank had been
grossly overstocked for a while - - I told him I think I can repair
the fins and I will hold him to his 48 hour guarantee and if they die
a week from now I will still be back to demand a refund. The fin
damage is very minimal, can barely be seen unless one is really
looking for it. I checked my tank's numbers, I had just done a water
change two days earlier, and at the last minute, I dumped in 25 mls of
Melafix. These angels got the most gentle and loving acclimation that
any fish has ever enjoyed in my home. They are hanging together in a
very quiet corner of the plant amongst some Vallisnaria. A couple of
hours after introducing them, I fed the tank and watched as the other
fish did their darting about and the angels, one at a time, left the
corner and cruised the length of the tank for their share of the food.
I just peeked into their dark tank this morning and they are hanging
in their quiet corner. And I hope there sinuses are as clear as mine
after breathing in that awful smelling Melafix.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:39:29 -0400, Mister Gardener
> wrote:

>I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
>morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
>them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
>other water parameters. There were 4 left in the tank from which I had
>originally purchased, and they have grown noticeably in size. The girl
>who had sold them to me previously came over and told me she
>remembered me from before and I explained briefly what had happened to
>them and she seemed really interested and pulled a little notepad from
>her pocket and wrote down some stuff. She seems to be interested in
>learning. I spent about a half hour studying them. Walked around the
>store to change my focus and returned every 10 minutes or so. Each of
>the four looked good. I got the girl to feed them. I did the quiet
>little look at my finger on the glass, little fishy, and follow it
>around, to which they all responded will. Each had a very small amount
>of fin damage, that thin tissue between the rays, mostly caudal. The
>original tank had been a mixed bag of more than one shipment, and the
>remaining 4 were all very different. A gold, a black marble with a
>strong orange cap, a smokey looking zebra, (I have to look this one up
>for a better ID), and an ordinary silver angel. Obviously none of them
>are pure anything. I asked the girl who asked the guy if there have
>been any problems with this tank over the past couple of weeks. I told
>him I was wondering about the fin damage. He went and brought over a
>clipboard with the ammonia readings done daily and a pH and Nitrates
>here and there, showed it to me, and everything looked good. So at
>least he knew what he was looking for. We both knew the tank had been
>grossly overstocked for a while - - I told him I think I can repair
>the fins and I will hold him to his 48 hour guarantee and if they die
>a week from now I will still be back to demand a refund. The fin
>damage is very minimal, can barely be seen unless one is really
>looking for it. I checked my tank's numbers, I had just done a water
>change two days earlier, and at the last minute, I dumped in 25 mls of
>Melafix. These angels got the most gentle and loving acclimation that
>any fish has ever enjoyed in my home. They are hanging together in a
>very quiet corner of the plant amongst some Vallisnaria. A couple of
>hours after introducing them, I fed the tank and watched as the other
>fish did their darting about and the angels, one at a time, left the
>corner and cruised the length of the tank for their share of the food.
>I just peeked into their dark tank this morning and they are hanging
>in their quiet corner. And I hope there sinuses are as clear as mine
>after breathing in that awful smelling Melafix.
>
>-- Mister Gardener
Well, not will. They responded well.

Day has begun, lights are on, feeding time. I have some tetra bits
that I seldom feed because they are too large for most of my fish.
Bright red. I tossed some in at the angel end of the tank and within
minutes they were chasing those red bits all over the tank. One seems
a little slower to move out and about, the golden, she waited several
minutes before venturing out from her plant cover to get a bite to
eat. But, she did get a bite to eat, and that's what I'm watching for
now, how they're feeding. I need to stop referring to them as he and
she, I haven't a clue as to their sex, and I won't for a while.

-- Mister Gardener

[MEAlston]

The female will have longer eye-lashes..........

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:39:29 -0400, Mister Gardener
> > wrote:
>
>>I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
>>morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
>>them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
>>other water parameters. There were 4 left in the tank from which I had
>>originally purchased, and they have grown noticeably in size. The girl
>>who had sold them to me previously came over and told me she
>>remembered me from before and I explained briefly what had happened to
>>them and she seemed really interested and pulled a little notepad from
>>her pocket and wrote down some stuff. She seems to be interested in
>>learning. I spent about a half hour studying them. Walked around the
>>store to change my focus and returned every 10 minutes or so. Each of
>>the four looked good. I got the girl to feed them. I did the quiet
>>little look at my finger on the glass, little fishy, and follow it
>>around, to which they all responded will. Each had a very small amount
>>of fin damage, that thin tissue between the rays, mostly caudal. The
>>original tank had been a mixed bag of more than one shipment, and the
>>remaining 4 were all very different. A gold, a black marble with a
>>strong orange cap, a smokey looking zebra, (I have to look this one up
>>for a better ID), and an ordinary silver angel. Obviously none of them
>>are pure anything. I asked the girl who asked the guy if there have
>>been any problems with this tank over the past couple of weeks. I told
>>him I was wondering about the fin damage. He went and brought over a
>>clipboard with the ammonia readings done daily and a pH and Nitrates
>>here and there, showed it to me, and everything looked good. So at
>>least he knew what he was looking for. We both knew the tank had been
>>grossly overstocked for a while - - I told him I think I can repair
>>the fins and I will hold him to his 48 hour guarantee and if they die
>>a week from now I will still be back to demand a refund. The fin
>>damage is very minimal, can barely be seen unless one is really
>>looking for it. I checked my tank's numbers, I had just done a water
>>change two days earlier, and at the last minute, I dumped in 25 mls of
>>Melafix. These angels got the most gentle and loving acclimation that
>>any fish has ever enjoyed in my home. They are hanging together in a
>>very quiet corner of the plant amongst some Vallisnaria. A couple of
>>hours after introducing them, I fed the tank and watched as the other
>>fish did their darting about and the angels, one at a time, left the
>>corner and cruised the length of the tank for their share of the food.
>>I just peeked into their dark tank this morning and they are hanging
>>in their quiet corner. And I hope there sinuses are as clear as mine
>>after breathing in that awful smelling Melafix.
>>
>>-- Mister Gardener
> Well, not will. They responded well.
>
> Day has begun, lights are on, feeding time. I have some tetra bits
> that I seldom feed because they are too large for most of my fish.
> Bright red. I tossed some in at the angel end of the tank and within
> minutes they were chasing those red bits all over the tank. One seems
> a little slower to move out and about, the golden, she waited several
> minutes before venturing out from her plant cover to get a bite to
> eat. But, she did get a bite to eat, and that's what I'm watching for
> now, how they're feeding. I need to stop referring to them as he and
> she, I haven't a clue as to their sex, and I won't for a while.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

Know what you mean about the melafix smell, my husband ask the other day
what the heck was that smell in the house in the last couple weeks I opened
the bottle and he got a good smell... and he said yep that's what it
was.....
How big are the angels? You got me hooked.... mine will be going in the 120
gallon soon enough it has to cycle so I am taking my time, I would like to
get a few more angels, but not sure what else will go in the 120 gl with
them, my husband wants different cichlids, but as far as I know there is
only a couple that could live with them, maybe I am wrong I got to do some
reading.
I have come across a few stores with angels but they did not look healthy so
I passed on them, the store I told you about that had all the angels and
cichlids (the all oddball place) have very nice looking angels but they are
bigger then what I want, he said he will be having babies for sale soon so I
might just wait.
Nik
Good luck with the new guys or girls hopefully both..did you notice if they
were staying together at the store much.. is that how you can tell if they
are a pair, keep us posted, I was going to ask you before but I did not
want to make a new post ...I have one of those little light houses in the
tank, not very big, one of my angels goes in it all the time and will stay
there for a couple hours mostly in the morning, is that normal or should
he/she be swimming around more.
nik

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
> morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
> them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
> other water parameters.
==============
Yesterday I went to pick up some fishfood at a large FS in the city. There
wasn't one angel fish I would have bought and he has the best fish in
Nashville (in my opinion). He will buy from local breeders if he can. The
angels in the chains haven't been much to rave about either, but I did see
some Rainbows and the clown loaches looked good.

Now if only I could find wallspace to set up my 30L.......
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll Information:
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
> The female will have longer eye-lashes..........
>
==================
........and a cellphone stuck to one gillcover. ;-)
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
>> morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
>> them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
>> other water parameters.
>
> ==============
> Yesterday I went to pick up some fishfood at a large FS in the city.
> There wasn't one angel fish I would have bought and he has the best fish
> in Nashville (in my opinion). He will buy from local breeders if he
> can. The angels in the chains haven't been much to rave about either,
> but I did see some Rainbows and the clown loaches looked good.
>
> Now if only I could find wallspace to set up my 30L.......

Get furniture shifting - there is always room for one more tank :-)

I will get everyone to share my addiction to Clown Loaches and Rainbow
fish ;-)

[MEAlston]

Just suspend the thing from a ceiling joist...maybe start a new craze for
suspended tanks. A friend of mine built a tank in the center of his den as
a coffee table...with the accessories running in the basement below. Fairly
tricked out.

[MEAlston]

Perfect!...!!

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:00:54 GMT, "MEAlston"
> wrote:

>The female will have longer eye-lashes..........
>
She's dead. That was fast. She was the quietest, least active of the
four. There is not a mark or sign on her body. I haven't a clue what
got her. Must be internal. I'm glad I saved the receipt and the piece
of paper with the store's replacement policy. I have until 10:30
tomorrow morning to return her. I happen to have an appointment in the
city for 8:30. That will also give me time to see if any of the
remaining 3 keel over. The black one is very active, full of
personality, I have no concerns about him. The other two are shy,
hanging in the foliage in a quiet part of the tank, but all three
respond quickly when I add a little food. We shall see. I'm reading
the store's replacement policy and getting stuck on the word
"replacement". It doesn't say refund. And these were the last angels
in the store. Might be some fireworks tomorrow if I don't get a
refund.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:15:58 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:39:29 -0400, Mister Gardener
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
>>>morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
>>>them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
>>>other water parameters. There were 4 left in the tank from which I had
>>>originally purchased, and they have grown noticeably in size. The girl
>>>who had sold them to me previously came over and told me she
>>>remembered me from before and I explained briefly what had happened to
>>>them and she seemed really interested and pulled a little notepad from
>>>her pocket and wrote down some stuff. She seems to be interested in
>>>learning. I spent about a half hour studying them. Walked around the
>>>store to change my focus and returned every 10 minutes or so. Each of
>>>the four looked good. I got the girl to feed them. I did the quiet
>>>little look at my finger on the glass, little fishy, and follow it
>>>around, to which they all responded will. Each had a very small amount
>>>of fin damage, that thin tissue between the rays, mostly caudal. The
>>>original tank had been a mixed bag of more than one shipment, and the
>>>remaining 4 were all very different. A gold, a black marble with a
>>>strong orange cap, a smokey looking zebra, (I have to look this one up
>>>for a better ID), and an ordinary silver angel. Obviously none of them
>>>are pure anything. I asked the girl who asked the guy if there have
>>>been any problems with this tank over the past couple of weeks. I told
>>>him I was wondering about the fin damage. He went and brought over a
>>>clipboard with the ammonia readings done daily and a pH and Nitrates
>>>here and there, showed it to me, and everything looked good. So at
>>>least he knew what he was looking for. We both knew the tank had been
>>>grossly overstocked for a while - - I told him I think I can repair
>>>the fins and I will hold him to his 48 hour guarantee and if they die
>>>a week from now I will still be back to demand a refund. The fin
>>>damage is very minimal, can barely be seen unless one is really
>>>looking for it. I checked my tank's numbers, I had just done a water
>>>change two days earlier, and at the last minute, I dumped in 25 mls of
>>>Melafix. These angels got the most gentle and loving acclimation that
>>>any fish has ever enjoyed in my home. They are hanging together in a
>>>very quiet corner of the plant amongst some Vallisnaria. A couple of
>>>hours after introducing them, I fed the tank and watched as the other
>>>fish did their darting about and the angels, one at a time, left the
>>>corner and cruised the length of the tank for their share of the food.
>>>I just peeked into their dark tank this morning and they are hanging
>>>in their quiet corner. And I hope there sinuses are as clear as mine
>>>after breathing in that awful smelling Melafix.
>>>
>>>-- Mister Gardener
>> Well, not will. They responded well.
>>
>> Day has begun, lights are on, feeding time. I have some tetra bits
>> that I seldom feed because they are too large for most of my fish.
>> Bright red. I tossed some in at the angel end of the tank and within
>> minutes they were chasing those red bits all over the tank. One seems
>> a little slower to move out and about, the golden, she waited several
>> minutes before venturing out from her plant cover to get a bite to
>> eat. But, she did get a bite to eat, and that's what I'm watching for
>> now, how they're feeding. I need to stop referring to them as he and
>> she, I haven't a clue as to their sex, and I won't for a while.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
>Know what you mean about the melafix smell, my husband ask the other day
>what the heck was that smell in the house in the last couple weeks I opened
>the bottle and he got a good smell... and he said yep that's what it
>was.....
>How big are the angels? You got me hooked.... mine will be going in the 120
>gallon soon enough it has to cycle so I am taking my time, I would like to
>get a few more angels, but not sure what else will go in the 120 gl with
>them, my husband wants different cichlids, but as far as I know there is
>only a couple that could live with them, maybe I am wrong I got to do some
>reading.
>I have come across a few stores with angels but they did not look healthy so
>I passed on them, the store I told you about that had all the angels and
>cichlids (the all oddball place) have very nice looking angels but they are
>bigger then what I want, he said he will be having babies for sale soon so I
>might just wait.
>Nik
>Good luck with the new guys or girls hopefully both..did you notice if they
>were staying together at the store much.. is that how you can tell if they
>are a pair, keep us posted, I was going to ask you before but I did not
>want to make a new post ...I have one of those little light houses in the
>tank, not very big, one of my angels goes in it all the time and will stay
>there for a couple hours mostly in the morning, is that normal or should
>he/she be swimming around more.
>nik
>
It depends. Is s/he singing "this little light of mine"?

-- Mister Gardener

[Gill Passman]

Mister Gardener wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:00:54 GMT, "MEAlston"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>The female will have longer eye-lashes..........
>>
>
> She's dead. That was fast. She was the quietest, least active of the
> four. There is not a mark or sign on her body. I haven't a clue what
> got her. Must be internal. I'm glad I saved the receipt and the piece
> of paper with the store's replacement policy. I have until 10:30
> tomorrow morning to return her. I happen to have an appointment in the
> city for 8:30. That will also give me time to see if any of the
> remaining 3 keel over. The black one is very active, full of
> personality, I have no concerns about him. The other two are shy,
> hanging in the foliage in a quiet part of the tank, but all three
> respond quickly when I add a little food. We shall see. I'm reading
> the store's replacement policy and getting stuck on the word
> "replacement". It doesn't say refund. And these were the last angels
> in the store. Might be some fireworks tomorrow if I don't get a
> refund.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

Sorry to hear that :-(

Same thing with my little girl DG....I'm planning a trip tomorrow to the
LFS but she is out of "warranty" and was a freebie anyway but might be
able to wing a credit or free replacement....If they can't replace her
they should at least give you a credit note or goods in kind - not the
same I know - again we are back to the problem about fish of dubious
quality being sold....

Gill

[MEAlston]

Go in loaded for bear...

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
>>> morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
>>> them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
>>> other water parameters.
>>
>> ==============
>> Yesterday I went to pick up some fishfood at a large FS in the city.
>> There wasn't one angel fish I would have bought and he has the best fish
>> in Nashville (in my opinion). He will buy from local breeders if he can.
>> The angels in the chains haven't been much to rave about either, but I
>> did see some Rainbows and the clown loaches looked good.
>>
>> Now if only I could find wallspace to set up my 30L.......
>
> Get furniture shifting - there is always room for one more tank :-)

LOL!!! Not necessarily. I measured and plotted and planned and measured
again and there is no wall space left. The only hope is to move the
Antique hutch over to the edge of the closet and see if there's enough
clearance to get past a tank to go down the hall on the other side. I need
the measurements of the stands available today. I've been so busy with the
garden and spring cleaning I haven't had time to go from LFS to LFS getting
measurements. The metal stand looks awful and is for a 55g tank. It wont
fit there at all in any case. I want a nice wood stand to match everything
else.

> I will get everyone to share my addiction to Clown Loaches and Rainbow
> fish ;-)

I was always a clown-loach fan and regret selling the few I had several
years ago.... but with my leg in a cast....... :-(
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
> Just suspend the thing from a ceiling joist...maybe start a new craze for
> suspended tanks. A friend of mine built a tank in the center of his den
> as
> a coffee table...with the accessories running in the basement below.
> Fairly
> tricked out.
=======================
I don't think my husband, a kind, generous and patient man, would put up
with tanks hanging from the ceiling. LOL! :-D The coffee table idea
sounds great though but we're seldom in the living room - also we just have
a crawlspace under the house. I'm hoping by moving a large hutch over a
little I can squeeze my 30L on that wall. There truly isn't any wallspace
left in my house and I don't want to block windows.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Nikki]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
>>> morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
>>> them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
>>> other water parameters.
>>
>> ==============
>> Yesterday I went to pick up some fishfood at a large FS in the city.
>> There wasn't one angel fish I would have bought and he has the best fish
>> in Nashville (in my opinion). He will buy from local breeders if he can.
>> The angels in the chains haven't been much to rave about either, but I
>> did see some Rainbows and the clown loaches looked good.
>>
>> Now if only I could find wallspace to set up my 30L.......
>
> Get furniture shifting - there is always room for one more tank :-)
>
> I will get everyone to share my addiction to Clown Loaches and Rainbow
> fish ;-)

I have that same problem when my house was built some one was very lazy, in
my living room which is very large only two of the walls have plugs, same in
the dining room and bedrooms, and by law houses here should have them I
think every 4-6 feet, kind of gets me stuck even if I can put a tank some
where...I have no way to plug stuff in, I keep asking my husband to put more
outlets in the walls but he says that will only encourage me to set up more
fish tanks, lol. He said we should charge admission to visit out house, six
fish tanks plus the 7 small 3-5 gl betta tanks, my bunny, our big dog..and 2
hermit crabs..we have a zoo.
Nik

[Altum]

Koi-Lo wrote:

> I don't think my husband, a kind, generous and patient man, would put up
> with tanks hanging from the ceiling. LOL! :-D The coffee table idea
> sounds great though but we're seldom in the living room - also we just
> have a crawlspace under the house. I'm hoping by moving a large hutch
> over a little I can squeeze my 30L on that wall. There truly isn't any
> wallspace left in my house and I don't want to block windows.

But there's nothing as pretty as the sun streaming through a tank filled
with healthy plants pearling in the light!

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Koi-Lo]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>
>> I don't think my husband, a kind, generous and patient man, would put up
>> with tanks hanging from the ceiling. LOL! :-D The coffee table idea
>> sounds great though but we're seldom in the living room - also we just
>> have a crawlspace under the house. I'm hoping by moving a large hutch
>> over a little I can squeeze my 30L on that wall. There truly isn't any
>> wallspace left in my house and I don't want to block windows.
>
> But there's nothing as pretty as the sun streaming through a tank filled
> with healthy plants pearling in the light!
>
=======================
You're terrible! :-D

Actually I just removed a 10g quarantine tank that was by a window. I moved
it because it was too hard to wash, open and close the window. It also grew
algae like mad even with all the plants. We don't want light blocking
curtains on the windows because of all the plants in the sunroom.

Somehow, somewhere I will squeeze this 30L in........ ;-)
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Gill Passman]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Altum" > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think my husband, a kind, generous and patient man, would put
>>> up with tanks hanging from the ceiling. LOL! :-D The coffee table
>>> idea sounds great though but we're seldom in the living room - also
>>> we just have a crawlspace under the house. I'm hoping by moving a
>>> large hutch over a little I can squeeze my 30L on that wall. There
>>> truly isn't any wallspace left in my house and I don't want to block
>>> windows.
>>
>>
>> But there's nothing as pretty as the sun streaming through a tank
>> filled with healthy plants pearling in the light!
>>
> =======================
> You're terrible! :-D
>
> Actually I just removed a 10g quarantine tank that was by a window. I
> moved it because it was too hard to wash, open and close the window. It
> also grew algae like mad even with all the plants. We don't want light
> blocking curtains on the windows because of all the plants in the sunroom.
>
> Somehow, somewhere I will squeeze this 30L in........ ;-)

Who needs an open window though....keep the window shut, close the
blinds/curtains to block out the light....and there you go.... ;-)

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:34:38 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Mister Gardener wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:00:54 GMT, "MEAlston"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The female will have longer eye-lashes..........
>>>
>>
>> She's dead. That was fast. She was the quietest, least active of the
>> four. There is not a mark or sign on her body. I haven't a clue what
>> got her. Must be internal. I'm glad I saved the receipt and the piece
>> of paper with the store's replacement policy. I have until 10:30
>> tomorrow morning to return her. I happen to have an appointment in the
>> city for 8:30. That will also give me time to see if any of the
>> remaining 3 keel over. The black one is very active, full of
>> personality, I have no concerns about him. The other two are shy,
>> hanging in the foliage in a quiet part of the tank, but all three
>> respond quickly when I add a little food. We shall see. I'm reading
>> the store's replacement policy and getting stuck on the word
>> "replacement". It doesn't say refund. And these were the last angels
>> in the store. Might be some fireworks tomorrow if I don't get a
>> refund.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
>Sorry to hear that :-(
>
>Same thing with my little girl DG....I'm planning a trip tomorrow to the
>LFS but she is out of "warranty" and was a freebie anyway but might be
>able to wing a credit or free replacement....If they can't replace her
>they should at least give you a credit note or goods in kind - not the
>same I know - again we are back to the problem about fish of dubious
>quality being sold....
>
>Gill
Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:52:38 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:

>
>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>>
>>> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> I returned to the original scene of my ill fated angel fish yesterday
>>>> morning, I'm still convinced that they were good fish and I killed
>>>> them by messing around with too many ferts and not watching my pH and
>>>> other water parameters.
>>>
>>> ==============
>>> Yesterday I went to pick up some fishfood at a large FS in the city.
>>> There wasn't one angel fish I would have bought and he has the best fish
>>> in Nashville (in my opinion). He will buy from local breeders if he can.
>>> The angels in the chains haven't been much to rave about either, but I
>>> did see some Rainbows and the clown loaches looked good.
>>>
>>> Now if only I could find wallspace to set up my 30L.......
>>
>> Get furniture shifting - there is always room for one more tank :-)
>>
>> I will get everyone to share my addiction to Clown Loaches and Rainbow
>> fish ;-)
>
>I have that same problem when my house was built some one was very lazy, in
>my living room which is very large only two of the walls have plugs, same in
>the dining room and bedrooms, and by law houses here should have them I
>think every 4-6 feet, kind of gets me stuck even if I can put a tank some
>where...I have no way to plug stuff in, I keep asking my husband to put more
>outlets in the walls but he says that will only encourage me to set up more
>fish tanks, lol. He said we should charge admission to visit out house, six
>fish tanks plus the 7 small 3-5 gl betta tanks, my bunny, our big dog..and 2
>hermit crabs..we have a zoo.
>Nik
>
Husband are easy. Just try that wet tee shirt trick that Gill was
talking about the other day.

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> I have that same problem when my house was built some one was very lazy,
> in my living room which is very large only two of the walls have plugs,
> same in the dining room and bedrooms, and by law houses here should have
> them I think every 4-6 feet, kind of gets me stuck even if I can put a
> tank some where...I have no way to plug stuff in, I keep asking my husband
> to put more outlets in the walls but he says that will only encourage me
> to set up more fish tanks, lol. He said we should charge admission to
> visit out house, six fish tanks plus the 7 small 3-5 gl betta tanks, my
> bunny, our big dog..and 2 hermit crabs..we have a zoo.
> Nik
==============
You can run heavy extension cords with those 6 outlet thingies plugged into
the end. :-) This way you can plug in 6 things as long as you don't plug
in stuff that uses loads of juice.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>
=====================
You may consider doing what I did and take the last ones back. WW didn't
hassle me at all. They refunded my money.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>
> Do you really need that closet? Can you picture a large recessed tank
> in there.

Yes I can, but then all our coats, boots and jackets will be sitting on the
floor.

It would have to be custom made to fit the space . . . or
> you could put a couple of 20 Highs in there, one above the other.

You're all a bunch of aquarium addicts!!!!!!!! :-D

I have to go look at wood stands as soon as I can take a few days
off........

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:18:13 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think my husband, a kind, generous and patient man, would put up
>>> with tanks hanging from the ceiling. LOL! :-D The coffee table idea
>>> sounds great though but we're seldom in the living room - also we just
>>> have a crawlspace under the house. I'm hoping by moving a large hutch
>>> over a little I can squeeze my 30L on that wall. There truly isn't any
>>> wallspace left in my house and I don't want to block windows.
>>
>> But there's nothing as pretty as the sun streaming through a tank filled
>> with healthy plants pearling in the light!
>>
>=======================
>You're terrible! :-D
>
>Actually I just removed a 10g quarantine tank that was by a window. I moved
>it because it was too hard to wash, open and close the window. It also grew
>algae like mad even with all the plants. We don't want light blocking
>curtains on the windows because of all the plants in the sunroom.
>
>Somehow, somewhere I will squeeze this 30L in........ ;-)

Do you have a bed? Do you really need it? How much wall space is it
wasting?

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:26:35 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
>> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
>> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
>> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
>> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>>
>=====================
>You may consider doing what I did and take the last ones back. WW didn't
>hassle me at all. They refunded my money.

I'm not sure what WW is, but I didn't buy them there. I'll see how
they look in the morning. I start my day around 5, so I'll have plenty
of time to check them out.

-- Mister Gardener

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:26:35 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
>>> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
>>> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
>>> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
>>> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>>>
>>=====================
>>You may consider doing what I did and take the last ones back. WW didn't
>>hassle me at all. They refunded my money.
>
> I'm not sure what WW is, but I didn't buy them there. I'll see how
> they look in the morning. I start my day around 5, so I'll have plenty
> of time to check them out.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

If I remember right you said these new guys were from the same batch /tank
you got last time, since the ones you got last time died, and the ones at
the store stayed alive... then when you got these new ones home you lost a
couple.. is it possible that there is a big difference between the water at
the store and your water? If its true that angels are sensitive these days,
not as healthy as they used to be, could a big change in how they are kept
kill them. Frank was telling me in another post that if a fish is kept in
salt then its reduced quickly it could kill them, so on that same thought
could the store keep their water with salt and you don't, or could their ph
be very different then yours, or something along those lines? Have you ask
the store what they keep in their tank?
Nik

I think WW is wally world or something like that someone said it before if i
remember right

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:11:54 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:26:35 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
>>>> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
>>>> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
>>>> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
>>>> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>>>>
>>>=====================
>>>You may consider doing what I did and take the last ones back. WW didn't
>>>hassle me at all. They refunded my money.
>>
>> I'm not sure what WW is, but I didn't buy them there. I'll see how
>> they look in the morning. I start my day around 5, so I'll have plenty
>> of time to check them out.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
>If I remember right you said these new guys were from the same batch /tank
>you got last time, since the ones you got last time died, and the ones at
>the store stayed alive... then when you got these new ones home you lost a
>couple.. is it possible that there is a big difference between the water at
>the store and your water? If its true that angels are sensitive these days,
>not as healthy as they used to be, could a big change in how they are kept
>kill them. Frank was telling me in another post that if a fish is kept in
>salt then its reduced quickly it could kill them, so on that same thought
>could the store keep their water with salt and you don't, or could their ph
>be very different then yours, or something along those lines? Have you ask
>the store what they keep in their tank?
>Nik
>
>I think WW is wally world or something like that someone said it before if i
>remember right
>
Wally World is WalMart? OK. I'm certain the store would not use salt
in their angel tank. I gave them a really long, slow acclimation, and
their pH was very close to what mine is here. I will ask them about
their hardness as well. I have a stable GH/KH now, but my water is
still quite soft. And it can be hard for a fish to go from hard to
soft if the difference is great. I'm anxious to see how these last two
do, they look great right now. And I expect NetMax, Richard, Frank,
and the others will drop a few observations my way. I'll get my money
back. I am still absolutely certain that I killed the first batch when
I dropped the pH to 5 or thereabouts. And at that time I had no
measurable buffering capacity. It was just one final stress on
already stressed out fish. My other fish in that tank remain healthy
and happy.

-- Mister Gardener

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:11:54 -0400, "Nikki"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:26:35 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
>>>>> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
>>>>> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
>>>>> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
>>>>> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>>>>>
>>>>=====================
>>>>You may consider doing what I did and take the last ones back. WW
>>>>didn't
>>>>hassle me at all. They refunded my money.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what WW is, but I didn't buy them there. I'll see how
>>> they look in the morning. I start my day around 5, so I'll have plenty
>>> of time to check them out.
>>>
>>> -- Mister Gardener
>>
>>If I remember right you said these new guys were from the same batch /tank
>>you got last time, since the ones you got last time died, and the ones at
>>the store stayed alive... then when you got these new ones home you lost a
>>couple.. is it possible that there is a big difference between the water
>>at
>>the store and your water? If its true that angels are sensitive these
>>days,
>>not as healthy as they used to be, could a big change in how they are kept
>>kill them. Frank was telling me in another post that if a fish is kept in
>>salt then its reduced quickly it could kill them, so on that same thought
>>could the store keep their water with salt and you don't, or could their
>>ph
>>be very different then yours, or something along those lines? Have you ask
>>the store what they keep in their tank?
>>Nik
>>
>>I think WW is wally world or something like that someone said it before if
>>i
>>remember right
>>
> Wally World is WalMart? OK. I'm certain the store would not use salt
> in their angel tank. I gave them a really long, slow acclimation, and
> their pH was very close to what mine is here. I will ask them about
> their hardness as well. I have a stable GH/KH now, but my water is
> still quite soft. And it can be hard for a fish to go from hard to
> soft if the difference is great. I'm anxious to see how these last two
> do, they look great right now. And I expect NetMax, Richard, Frank,
> and the others will drop a few observations my way. I'll get my money
> back. I am still absolutely certain that I killed the first batch when
> I dropped the pH to 5 or thereabouts. And at that time I had no
> measurable buffering capacity. It was just one final stress on
> already stressed out fish. My other fish in that tank remain healthy
> and happy.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

that is why I was thinking maybe it was something different between the
store tank and your tank because your other fish are doing good, so it can
not be something "wrong" with your tank /water, maybe just something
different that they were not used to? what ever it is I hope you work it
out, I was just thinking about what frank said and thought about the problem
you were having with the angels so thought I would mention it.
Oh the "WW" I am not sure, I thought koi-lo said the name of the store was
WW, which I thought was Wally world because I heard that name mentioned....
i did not know wally world meant wal-mart (if that is what you meant)
nik

[Altum]

Mister Gardener wrote:

> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.

Awww, geez. I'm so sorry to hear that. I was hoping you got good ones
this time.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Altum]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Do you really need that closet? Can you picture a large recessed tank
>> in there.
>
> Yes I can, but then all our coats, boots and jackets will be sitting on
> the floor.

Isn't that what the tank stand is for? ;-)

> It would have to be custom made to fit the space . . . or
>> you could put a couple of 20 Highs in there, one above the other.
>
> You're all a bunch of aquarium addicts!!!!!!!! :-D

It took you THIS long to figure that out? *grin*

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Gill Passman]

Diorite wrote:
> In article >,
> "MEAlston" > wrote:
>
>
>>The female will have longer eye-lashes..........
>
>
> And earrings in *both* ears.
>

And be able to "multi-task"

[Gill Passman]

Altum wrote:
> Mister Gardener wrote:
>
>> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
>> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
>> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
>> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
>> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>
>
> Awww, geez. I'm so sorry to hear that. I was hoping you got good ones
> this time.
>
Sorry to hear about the fish. Sounds a bit like internal parasites maybe
if they are skinny...

Did I read correctly that these came from the same tank as the
originals? Maybe it wasn't just down to the pH crash....

Gill

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:26:35 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
>>> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
>>> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
>>> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
>>> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>>>
>>=====================
>>You may consider doing what I did and take the last ones back. WW didn't
>>hassle me at all. They refunded my money.
>
> I'm not sure what WW is, but I didn't buy them there. I'll see how
> they look in the morning. I start my day around 5, so I'll have plenty
> of time to check them out.
>
> -- Mister Gardener
==========================
Whoops,... that should have been WM. I used WW for Wally-World - the same
place. :-))
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
. ..
or could their ph
> be very different then yours, or something along those lines? Have you ask
> the store what they keep in their tank?
==================================
Because my PH runs around 7.8 and my water is hard, and the Petco store's
water is soft and runs around 6.6-6.8 I no longer buy fish there. The
acclimation process takes too long and too tedious. I lost too many GF. I
haven't been back there in months. As for the DOSs etc. - I wouldn't know.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>
> Wally World is WalMart? OK.

Yes.

I'm certain the store would not use salt
> in their angel tank. I gave them a really long, slow acclimation, and
> their pH was very close to what mine is here. I will ask them about
> their hardness as well. I have a stable GH/KH now, but my water is
> still quite soft. And it can be hard for a fish to go from hard to
> soft if the difference is great.

And in my own personal experience they don't do much better going from a
soft acid water to a hard alkaline water either. As I mentioned above I
don't buy fish from Petco anymore because of the sharp differences in water.

I'm anxious to see how these last two
> do, they look great right now. And I expect NetMax, Richard, Frank,
> and the others will drop a few observations my way. I'll get my money
> back. I am still absolutely certain that I killed the first batch when
> I dropped the pH to 5 or thereabouts. And at that time I had no
> measurable buffering capacity. It was just one final stress on
> already stressed out fish. My other fish in that tank remain healthy
> and happy.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

I hope they remain that way.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:08:59 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Altum wrote:
>> Mister Gardener wrote:
>>
>>> Number two gone. The two remaining appear to have drawn powers from
>>> the two deceased. I did a 20% water change and right now they are all
>>> over the tank, looking terrific. But. The two dead ones look really
>>> skinny. I'm wondering if they were malnourished - stopped eating for
>>> some reason and no one noticed. 16 hours till the warranty expires.
>>
>>
>> Awww, geez. I'm so sorry to hear that. I was hoping you got good ones
>> this time.
>>
>Sorry to hear about the fish. Sounds a bit like internal parasites maybe
>if they are skinny...
>
>Did I read correctly that these came from the same tank as the
>originals? Maybe it wasn't just down to the pH crash....
>
>Gill

Number three was gone this morning. I did a water test, which was spot
on, and bagged the dead fish and a cup of water and headed to Bangor
for an early morning Dr appointment, followed by a trip to the pet
store. I caught the manager of the fish department this morning, and
she was really cool about it. She took the bag of fish and tossed it
in the trash, didn't even look at them, then tested my water. Basic
API Freshwater pH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates. She said everything's
fine, she would get me a store credit since they had no more
angelfish. I asked her if she knew her water hardness, and she said
"we never test for that." I engaged her in enough of a chat to
demonstrate that I knew more than she did, in a very nice way, and she
began talking. She said the problem started 2 or 3 weeks ago, when
every Wednesday, new fish shipment day, she began seeing unbelievable
death rates within the first 48 hours, and customers were bringing in
dead fish at a similar high rate. Massive die offs, she said, like
half of a tank gone in hours. She had her staff step up the water
changes, but that made little difference. She talked with her supplier
who told her that the other stores in Bangor were having the same
problem. And all of their tanks were testing high in ammonia,
naturally because they were full of dead fish. He suggested she check
her water from the tap, she did, and got high ammonia readings, so she
made a phone call to the Bangor City water department, and guess what,
the City of Bangor began using chloramines for the first time a couple
of weeks ago. And no one bothered telling the several pet stores in
the district. The fish I had bought were the last survivors of an
ammonia roller coaster ride, and the final stress of moving them
pushed them over the edge. It's amazing they survived those couple of
weeks like they did, methinks their immune systems were totally
demolished. Regarding the first group of fish that I had lost from her
store, it was obviously too late for me to do anything about. And I
really did help kill them with my buffer/pH crash.

She also gave me that little tidbit of info a fish buyer craves - she
receives her new fish every Wednesday morning and customers swarm the
place on Thursdays and Fridays. She said her tanks are a mess at the
end of the week, but by Sunday she has a good handle on what fish are
in good shape. She told me the best time to buy is Sunday afternoons
through Tuesday.

She asked me, how many fish did you just bring back, was it 5 or 6?
Damn Protestant upbringing, I told her no, only 3. I used my store
credit on some food and a shrimp net and some good looking big Amazon
sword plants - really large - they were in a separate plant tank with
a waterfall running over them, you know the kind of display I mean. I
asked her how long they have been completely submerged and she said a
few weeks, not many of her customers buy live plants. So I told her I
want 2 big swords, leaving it for her to select. She wrote 2.99 x 2
plants on the bag, which I know is way low, and after I got home I
discovered there were 3 large amazons along with a couple of baby
plants. I still have 5 or 6 dollars credit due, she said anytime in
the next year, just give my name and the cashier will see it in the
computer.

All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I know
that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her point
blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that she
won't screw me. (Pun intended.)

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> Do you have a bed? Do you really need it? How much wall space is it
> wasting?
>
> -- Mister Gardener
=============

I suppose my husband and I can always sleep in the sleeping bags on the
floor.

Seriously,...I really want it in the diningroom-office where the two 10gs
are now so I can enjoy watching the fish. I spend most of my down time in
here. The GF are outgrowing these 10s and the bottom one is very difficult
to clean properly, even when I'm sitting on the floor. I'd rather use them
to propagate plants in the sunroom.... no wait!!!!! There's no wall space
left in there either. :0(
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>
> All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
> very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I know
> that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
> some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her point
> blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that she
> won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
=====================
What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem fish
were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places, forcing
some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with you.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>> very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I know
>> that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>> some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her point
>> blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that she
>> won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>=====================
>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem fish
>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places, forcing
>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with you.

The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
the idea of testing the city water. The wholesaler was the one whose
suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
their fish die.

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>>> very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I know
>>> that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>>> some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her point
>>> blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that she
>>> won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>>=====================
>>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem fish
>>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places,
>>forcing
>>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with you.
>
> The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
> system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
> the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
> the idea of testing the city water.

Oh - GOTCHA!

The wholesaler was the one whose
> suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
> in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
> changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
> their fish die.

You can call your local paper and talk to someone there. Many small papers
are always looking for stories like that and you would be doing people a
favor. I'm sure the pet stores themselves can start telling everyone the
water co. is now using chloromines.

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 23:44:54 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>> All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>>>> very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I know
>>>> that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>>>> some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her point
>>>> blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that she
>>>> won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>>>=====================
>>>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem fish
>>>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places,
>>>forcing
>>>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with you.
>>
>> The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
>> system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
>> the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
>> the idea of testing the city water.
>
>Oh - GOTCHA!
>
>The wholesaler was the one whose
>> suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
>> in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
>> changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
>> their fish die.
>
>You can call your local paper and talk to someone there. Many small papers
>are always looking for stories like that and you would be doing people a
>favor. I'm sure the pet stores themselves can start telling everyone the
>water co. is now using chloromines.

You know, I was just thinking about a thread here from a few days ago
about water changes and treating the new water with dechlor. I wrote
something about how I often forget to add something, but I don't have
chloramines in my tap water and the heavy splashing of the filters
during the water change has always seemed enough to dissipate the
chlorine. I use dechlor stuff faithfully when I am doing huge, more
than 50% changes. I intentionally bought a product intended for
chlorine, and requires a much larger dose for chloramines, and I
always use the smallest dose, a few mls for chlorine. My product,
API's Tap Water Conditioner, is rarely seen in stores around here. But
most popular products sold take care of chloramines and chlorine at
the same label dose. So if people are using their dechlor with their
water changes like they are supposed to, they shouldn't have a problem
with their water which now has chloramines. And if they are having
die-offs after water changes, it could indicate that they are not
using their dechlor stuff. I can see the pet shops using a lesser
strength product like I do, it's MUCH cheaper, or simply using nothing
for smaller water changes like I do. Makes me wonder.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

I just scrolled back through this thread and discovered how very long
it had become. Boy, when I want online attention I sure do hog the
space, don't I?

When I walked through the living room this morning, just after
sunrise, the 55 was still in the dark. I was anxious to check on my
last remaining angel, the black marble, which has always been my
favorite coloration. While the aquarium was dark I got right up so my
nose was touching the glass, I had to remove my bifocals so I could
search in the dark water. At this instant, the aquarium lights clicked
on and I discovered my angel also had his nose to the glass, looking
right back at me. I think he gave me a little kiss and I returned the
favor. I dropped a little food in the water and he was all over it.

Good morning.

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
.. I think he gave me a little kiss and I returned the
> favor. I dropped a little food in the water and he was all over it.
>
> Good morning.
>
======================
It is indeed a good morning - your angelfish is still alive.

Today my husband and I have to start fixing the berm on our 800g inground
pond. It's collapsing and runoff is fouling the water. It's a dark gloomy
chilly day. Not the best day to work around water.......
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 23:44:54 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>> All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>>>>> very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I know
>>>>> that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>>>>> some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her point
>>>>> blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that she
>>>>> won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>>>>=====================
>>>>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem
>>>>fish
>>>>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places,
>>>>forcing
>>>>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with
>>>>you.
>>>
>>> The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
>>> system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
>>> the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
>>> the idea of testing the city water.
>>
>>Oh - GOTCHA!
>>
>>The wholesaler was the one whose
>>> suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
>>> in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
>>> changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
>>> their fish die.
>>
>>You can call your local paper and talk to someone there. Many small
>>papers
>>are always looking for stories like that and you would be doing people a
>>favor. I'm sure the pet stores themselves can start telling everyone the
>>water co. is now using chloromines.
>
> You know, I was just thinking about a thread here from a few days ago
> about water changes and treating the new water with dechlor. I wrote
> something about how I often forget to add something, but I don't have
> chloramines in my tap water and the heavy splashing of the filters
> during the water change has always seemed enough to dissipate the
> chlorine. I use dechlor stuff faithfully when I am doing huge, more
> than 50% changes. I intentionally bought a product intended for
> chlorine, and requires a much larger dose for chloramines, and I
> always use the smallest dose, a few mls for chlorine. My product,
> API's Tap Water Conditioner, is rarely seen in stores around here. But
> most popular products sold take care of chloramines and chlorine at
> the same label dose. So if people are using their dechlor with their
> water changes like they are supposed to, they shouldn't have a problem
> with their water which now has chloramines. And if they are having
> die-offs after water changes, it could indicate that they are not
> using their dechlor stuff. I can see the pet shops using a lesser
> strength product like I do, it's MUCH cheaper, or simply using nothing
> for smaller water changes like I do. Makes me wonder.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

well like i posted before, i now use water conditioner all the time, just
because, but for the first eight years i had my pacu i did not use it at
all, nothing in his tank but water & food, then about the last 8-10 years i
used it, i never noticed a difference between using /not using in his
health, In all those years i never used one medication on him, and he live
quite some time, over 15 years, of course we did water changes but not a lot
of them. I also did not use it when i got my guppies, at least for the first
few months, i do now and i cant say that back then i did not have better
water.
Nik

hey how are the angels that are left doing?

[Nikki]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
> ...
> . I think he gave me a little kiss and I returned the
>> favor. I dropped a little food in the water and he was all over it.
>>
>> Good morning.
>>
> ======================
> It is indeed a good morning - your angelfish is still alive.
>
> Today my husband and I have to start fixing the berm on our 800g inground
> pond. It's collapsing and runoff is fouling the water. It's a dark
> gloomy chilly day. Not the best day to work around water.......
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
Yes we are having a lot of rain today also, i dont know if the sky has
changed since nite time, this weather sucks. Mr. G i just posted some other
place on this loooooong post asking how your angels were doing, it was
before i read your last post, glad they are fine, my husband wants to get
some of the bigger ones at the oddball place, i am trying to locate a web
page that will tell me what fish is ok with other fish.......humm
Nik

[Mister Gardener]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:48:40 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 23:44:54 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>>>>>> very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I know
>>>>>> that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>>>>>> some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her point
>>>>>> blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that she
>>>>>> won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>>>>>=====================
>>>>>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem
>>>>>fish
>>>>>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places,
>>>>>forcing
>>>>>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with
>>>>>you.
>>>>
>>>> The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
>>>> system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
>>>> the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
>>>> the idea of testing the city water.
>>>
>>>Oh - GOTCHA!
>>>
>>>The wholesaler was the one whose
>>>> suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
>>>> in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
>>>> changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
>>>> their fish die.
>>>
>>>You can call your local paper and talk to someone there. Many small
>>>papers
>>>are always looking for stories like that and you would be doing people a
>>>favor. I'm sure the pet stores themselves can start telling everyone the
>>>water co. is now using chloromines.
>>
>> You know, I was just thinking about a thread here from a few days ago
>> about water changes and treating the new water with dechlor. I wrote
>> something about how I often forget to add something, but I don't have
>> chloramines in my tap water and the heavy splashing of the filters
>> during the water change has always seemed enough to dissipate the
>> chlorine. I use dechlor stuff faithfully when I am doing huge, more
>> than 50% changes. I intentionally bought a product intended for
>> chlorine, and requires a much larger dose for chloramines, and I
>> always use the smallest dose, a few mls for chlorine. My product,
>> API's Tap Water Conditioner, is rarely seen in stores around here. But
>> most popular products sold take care of chloramines and chlorine at
>> the same label dose. So if people are using their dechlor with their
>> water changes like they are supposed to, they shouldn't have a problem
>> with their water which now has chloramines. And if they are having
>> die-offs after water changes, it could indicate that they are not
>> using their dechlor stuff. I can see the pet shops using a lesser
>> strength product like I do, it's MUCH cheaper, or simply using nothing
>> for smaller water changes like I do. Makes me wonder.
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>
>well like i posted before, i now use water conditioner all the time, just
>because, but for the first eight years i had my pacu i did not use it at
>all, nothing in his tank but water & food, then about the last 8-10 years i
>used it, i never noticed a difference between using /not using in his
>health, In all those years i never used one medication on him, and he live
>quite some time, over 15 years, of course we did water changes but not a lot
>of them. I also did not use it when i got my guppies, at least for the first
>few months, i do now and i cant say that back then i did not have better
>water.
>Nik
>
>hey how are the angels that are left doing?
>
There is only one, and he's a keeper, I'm pretty certain. I posted
about his good morning kiss earlier today. He's a black marble, my
favorite, and he is very active and begging and eating like there's no
tomorrow. He definitely has a belly on him, unlike the others who were
paper thin where the guts were supposed to be. I just measured him
against some coins and he is larger than a quarter but not quite fifty
cent piece. I was just wondering what my odds are going to be of
finding reasonably priced mates in his size range. Prices jump
dramatically around 50 cent size. Of the five stores within 30 miles
of me, none have any angels right now.

-- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:52:40 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:

>
>"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> . I think he gave me a little kiss and I returned the
>>> favor. I dropped a little food in the water and he was all over it.
>>>
>>> Good morning.
>>>
>> ======================
>> It is indeed a good morning - your angelfish is still alive.
>>
>> Today my husband and I have to start fixing the berm on our 800g inground
>> pond. It's collapsing and runoff is fouling the water. It's a dark
>> gloomy chilly day. Not the best day to work around water.......
>> --
>> Koi-Lo....
>> Frugal ponding since 1995.
>> Aquariums since 1952.
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>>
>>
>>
>Yes we are having a lot of rain today also, i dont know if the sky has
>changed since nite time, this weather sucks. Mr. G i just posted some other
>place on this loooooong post asking how your angels were doing, it was
>before i read your last post, glad they are fine, my husband wants to get
>some of the bigger ones at the oddball place, i am trying to locate a web
>page that will tell me what fish is ok with other fish.......humm
>Nik
>
Angels, peaceful, easy going tank mates. Corys, of course. Neons or
cardinals do well, but large angels eat neons sometimes. I have a
school of pencil fish with mine, they're very peaceful and graceful to
watch, and too big too eat - my 6 hatchet fish are doing well in
there. Avoid fin nippers, they drive angels batty - even guppies can
become fin nippers when they see all that long finnage of the angels.
I read recently in an angel fish book that gouramis are good tank
mates. It's been a few decades since I've kept gouramis, so I can't
comment on their temperament, other than I think kissers would be a
bit much for an angel tank. Maybe dwarfs. I've got my eye on a pair of
dwarf Ramirez cichlids, they've been doing well for several months in
a display only tank, but my lfs has offered them to me. That same
angel book also mentioned sword tails and platies. Just some ideas.
Other than the possible pair of dwarf cichlids, I don't intend to add
anything further to the angel 55, my plan being for 6 angels total,
once I find them. Take your partner for a visit to
http://www.angelsplus.com/index.htm
for tons of information and pictures of angels to die for.


-- Mister Gardener

[Nikki]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:48:40 -0400, "Nikki"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 23:44:54 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>>>>>>> very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>>>>>>> some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her
>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>> blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that
>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>> won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>>>>>>=====================
>>>>>>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem
>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places,
>>>>>>forcing
>>>>>>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with
>>>>>>you.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
>>>>> system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
>>>>> the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
>>>>> the idea of testing the city water.
>>>>
>>>>Oh - GOTCHA!
>>>>
>>>>The wholesaler was the one whose
>>>>> suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
>>>>> in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
>>>>> changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
>>>>> their fish die.
>>>>
>>>>You can call your local paper and talk to someone there. Many small
>>>>papers
>>>>are always looking for stories like that and you would be doing people a
>>>>favor. I'm sure the pet stores themselves can start telling everyone
>>>>the
>>>>water co. is now using chloromines.
>>>
>>> You know, I was just thinking about a thread here from a few days ago
>>> about water changes and treating the new water with dechlor. I wrote
>>> something about how I often forget to add something, but I don't have
>>> chloramines in my tap water and the heavy splashing of the filters
>>> during the water change has always seemed enough to dissipate the
>>> chlorine. I use dechlor stuff faithfully when I am doing huge, more
>>> than 50% changes. I intentionally bought a product intended for
>>> chlorine, and requires a much larger dose for chloramines, and I
>>> always use the smallest dose, a few mls for chlorine. My product,
>>> API's Tap Water Conditioner, is rarely seen in stores around here. But
>>> most popular products sold take care of chloramines and chlorine at
>>> the same label dose. So if people are using their dechlor with their
>>> water changes like they are supposed to, they shouldn't have a problem
>>> with their water which now has chloramines. And if they are having
>>> die-offs after water changes, it could indicate that they are not
>>> using their dechlor stuff. I can see the pet shops using a lesser
>>> strength product like I do, it's MUCH cheaper, or simply using nothing
>>> for smaller water changes like I do. Makes me wonder.
>>>
>>> -- Mister Gardener
>>
>>well like i posted before, i now use water conditioner all the time, just
>>because, but for the first eight years i had my pacu i did not use it at
>>all, nothing in his tank but water & food, then about the last 8-10 years
>>i
>>used it, i never noticed a difference between using /not using in his
>>health, In all those years i never used one medication on him, and he live
>>quite some time, over 15 years, of course we did water changes but not a
>>lot
>>of them. I also did not use it when i got my guppies, at least for the
>>first
>>few months, i do now and i cant say that back then i did not have better
>>water.
>>Nik
>>
>>hey how are the angels that are left doing?
>>
> There is only one, and he's a keeper, I'm pretty certain. I posted
> about his good morning kiss earlier today. He's a black marble, my
> favorite, and he is very active and begging and eating like there's no
> tomorrow. He definitely has a belly on him, unlike the others who were
> paper thin where the guts were supposed to be. I just measured him
> against some coins and he is larger than a quarter but not quite fifty
> cent piece. I was just wondering what my odds are going to be of
> finding reasonably priced mates in his size range. Prices jump
> dramatically around 50 cent size. Of the five stores within 30 miles
> of me, none have any angels right now.
>
> -- Mister Gardener

I seen some angels up the oddball place they were so big, but they were so
pretty never seen them quite that big, they were his i think for breeding...
(no price on them) he also had some other very big cichlids with out prices
and discus also, they looked to be very healthy, i guess he had them for
some time. but i did notice on other ones he had that were not quite as big
as his ....but big none the less they were much more expensive then the
babies, i seen some fish there as high as 200.00, i was suprised.
Nikki

[Gill Passman]

Nikki wrote:
> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:48:40 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 23:44:54 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>>>>>>>>very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I
>>>>>>>>know
>>>>>>>>that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>>>>>>>>some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her
>>>>>>>>point
>>>>>>>>blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that
>>>>>>>>she
>>>>>>>>won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>=====================
>>>>>>>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem
>>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places,
>>>>>>>forcing
>>>>>>>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with
>>>>>>>you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
>>>>>>system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
>>>>>>the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
>>>>>>the idea of testing the city water.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh - GOTCHA!
>>>>>
>>>>>The wholesaler was the one whose
>>>>>
>>>>>>suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
>>>>>>in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
>>>>>>changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
>>>>>>their fish die.
>>>>>
>>>>>You can call your local paper and talk to someone there. Many small
>>>>>papers
>>>>>are always looking for stories like that and you would be doing people a
>>>>>favor. I'm sure the pet stores themselves can start telling everyone
>>>>>the
>>>>>water co. is now using chloromines.
>>>>
>>>>You know, I was just thinking about a thread here from a few days ago
>>>>about water changes and treating the new water with dechlor. I wrote
>>>>something about how I often forget to add something, but I don't have
>>>>chloramines in my tap water and the heavy splashing of the filters
>>>>during the water change has always seemed enough to dissipate the
>>>>chlorine. I use dechlor stuff faithfully when I am doing huge, more
>>>>than 50% changes. I intentionally bought a product intended for
>>>>chlorine, and requires a much larger dose for chloramines, and I
>>>>always use the smallest dose, a few mls for chlorine. My product,
>>>>API's Tap Water Conditioner, is rarely seen in stores around here. But
>>>>most popular products sold take care of chloramines and chlorine at
>>>>the same label dose. So if people are using their dechlor with their
>>>>water changes like they are supposed to, they shouldn't have a problem
>>>>with their water which now has chloramines. And if they are having
>>>>die-offs after water changes, it could indicate that they are not
>>>>using their dechlor stuff. I can see the pet shops using a lesser
>>>>strength product like I do, it's MUCH cheaper, or simply using nothing
>>>>for smaller water changes like I do. Makes me wonder.
>>>>
>>>>-- Mister Gardener
>>>
>>>well like i posted before, i now use water conditioner all the time, just
>>>because, but for the first eight years i had my pacu i did not use it at
>>>all, nothing in his tank but water & food, then about the last 8-10 years
>>>i
>>>used it, i never noticed a difference between using /not using in his
>>>health, In all those years i never used one medication on him, and he live
>>>quite some time, over 15 years, of course we did water changes but not a
>>>lot
>>>of them. I also did not use it when i got my guppies, at least for the
>>>first
>>>few months, i do now and i cant say that back then i did not have better
>>>water.
>>>Nik
>>>
>>>hey how are the angels that are left doing?
>>>
>>
>>There is only one, and he's a keeper, I'm pretty certain. I posted
>>about his good morning kiss earlier today. He's a black marble, my
>>favorite, and he is very active and begging and eating like there's no
>>tomorrow. He definitely has a belly on him, unlike the others who were
>>paper thin where the guts were supposed to be. I just measured him
>>against some coins and he is larger than a quarter but not quite fifty
>>cent piece. I was just wondering what my odds are going to be of
>>finding reasonably priced mates in his size range. Prices jump
>>dramatically around 50 cent size. Of the five stores within 30 miles
>>of me, none have any angels right now.
>>
>>-- Mister Gardener
>
>
> I seen some angels up the oddball place they were so big, but they were so
> pretty never seen them quite that big, they were his i think for breeding...
> (no price on them) he also had some other very big cichlids with out prices
> and discus also, they looked to be very healthy, i guess he had them for
> some time. but i did notice on other ones he had that were not quite as big
> as his ....but big none the less they were much more expensive then the
> babies, i seen some fish there as high as 200.00, i was suprised.
> Nikki
>
>

A good size Angel over here will cost between £15-30 pounds but we are
talking 4" fish (you can all do your own conversion but as a clue $1.75
to the £1)....and these are healthy fish....the small ones cost around
£3 but I guess you take your chances with those....SIL bought some a few
months ago that have rapidly grown to the £15 mark....if you buy
small/young they will grow...and are cheaper...

Gill

[Mister Gardener]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:03:49 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>Nikki wrote:
>> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:48:40 -0400, "Nikki"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 23:44:54 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>All in all, it was a good experience. And my black marble is still
>>>>>>>>>very active and feeding well. Will I buy from this store again? I
>>>>>>>>>know
>>>>>>>>>that I will visit again, and I know that if I become interested in
>>>>>>>>>some of their fish I will talk directly to this girl and ask her
>>>>>>>>>point
>>>>>>>>>blank for a complete history of the fish and I feel confident that
>>>>>>>>>she
>>>>>>>>>won't screw me. (Pun intended.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>=====================
>>>>>>>>What a story. I wish we could find out which wholesalers the problem
>>>>>>>>fish
>>>>>>>>were coming from. We could avoid any fish coming from those places,
>>>>>>>>forcing
>>>>>>>>some changes somewhere..... it's surprising she was that honest with
>>>>>>>>you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The problem was not with a wholesaler, it was with the City water
>>>>>>>system that began adding chloramines to the city water and didn't tell
>>>>>>>the pet shops of the change. It was the wholesaler who came up with
>>>>>>>the idea of testing the city water.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh - GOTCHA!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The wholesaler was the one whose
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>suggestion solved the problem. What I'm wondering about is the people
>>>>>>>in their homes all over the city that are doing their weekly water
>>>>>>>changes unknowingly with Chloramines loaded water and watching all
>>>>>>>their fish die.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You can call your local paper and talk to someone there. Many small
>>>>>>papers
>>>>>>are always looking for stories like that and you would be doing people a
>>>>>>favor. I'm sure the pet stores themselves can start telling everyone
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>water co. is now using chloromines.
>>>>>
>>>>>You know, I was just thinking about a thread here from a few days ago
>>>>>about water changes and treating the new water with dechlor. I wrote
>>>>>something about how I often forget to add something, but I don't have
>>>>>chloramines in my tap water and the heavy splashing of the filters
>>>>>during the water change has always seemed enough to dissipate the
>>>>>chlorine. I use dechlor stuff faithfully when I am doing huge, more
>>>>>than 50% changes. I intentionally bought a product intended for
>>>>>chlorine, and requires a much larger dose for chloramines, and I
>>>>>always use the smallest dose, a few mls for chlorine. My product,
>>>>>API's Tap Water Conditioner, is rarely seen in stores around here. But
>>>>>most popular products sold take care of chloramines and chlorine at
>>>>>the same label dose. So if people are using their dechlor with their
>>>>>water changes like they are supposed to, they shouldn't have a problem
>>>>>with their water which now has chloramines. And if they are having
>>>>>die-offs after water changes, it could indicate that they are not
>>>>>using their dechlor stuff. I can see the pet shops using a lesser
>>>>>strength product like I do, it's MUCH cheaper, or simply using nothing
>>>>>for smaller water changes like I do. Makes me wonder.
>>>>>
>>>>>-- Mister Gardener
>>>>
>>>>well like i posted before, i now use water conditioner all the time, just
>>>>because, but for the first eight years i had my pacu i did not use it at
>>>>all, nothing in his tank but water & food, then about the last 8-10 years
>>>>i
>>>>used it, i never noticed a difference between using /not using in his
>>>>health, In all those years i never used one medication on him, and he live
>>>>quite some time, over 15 years, of course we did water changes but not a
>>>>lot
>>>>of them. I also did not use it when i got my guppies, at least for the
>>>>first
>>>>few months, i do now and i cant say that back then i did not have better
>>>>water.
>>>>Nik
>>>>
>>>>hey how are the angels that are left doing?
>>>>
>>>
>>>There is only one, and he's a keeper, I'm pretty certain. I posted
>>>about his good morning kiss earlier today. He's a black marble, my
>>>favorite, and he is very active and begging and eating like there's no
>>>tomorrow. He definitely has a belly on him, unlike the others who were
>>>paper thin where the guts were supposed to be. I just measured him
>>>against some coins and he is larger than a quarter but not quite fifty
>>>cent piece. I was just wondering what my odds are going to be of
>>>finding reasonably priced mates in his size range. Prices jump
>>>dramatically around 50 cent size. Of the five stores within 30 miles
>>>of me, none have any angels right now.
>>>
>>>-- Mister Gardener
>>
>>
>> I seen some angels up the oddball place they were so big, but they were so
>> pretty never seen them quite that big, they were his i think for breeding...
>> (no price on them) he also had some other very big cichlids with out prices
>> and discus also, they looked to be very healthy, i guess he had them for
>> some time. but i did notice on other ones he had that were not quite as big
>> as his ....but big none the less they were much more expensive then the
>> babies, i seen some fish there as high as 200.00, i was suprised.
>> Nikki
>>
>>
>
>A good size Angel over here will cost between £15-30 pounds but we are
>talking 4" fish (you can all do your own conversion but as a clue $1.75
>to the £1)....and these are healthy fish....the small ones cost around
>£3 but I guess you take your chances with those....SIL bought some a few
>months ago that have rapidly grown to the £15 mark....if you buy
>small/young they will grow...and are cheaper...
>
>Gill
Buying young has been my plan all along, but now I find myself looking
at a single almost "medium" as the pet stores call it, which I would
love to match size with - but I may still just go ahead and buy all
new youngsters. It's not just the money, raising them young provides a
lot of benefits. Dunno yet. Still thinking about it.

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
>>
> Yes we are having a lot of rain today also, i dont know if the sky has
> changed since nite time, this weather sucks.

It did warm up when the sun came out and never rained. Then in the middle
of the mess he gets an emergency call and had to take off...... that gave
me some time to get the petunias planted in front of the house. I also got
to separate and replant a waterlily, not one of my favorite jobs. Tomorrow
we start working with the rebar, cement and forms. We'll be raising the
berm about 4" above the yard surface. I hope we don't have to buy a new
liner as I don't even see 60mil liners any more. The price would also be
incredible now.

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>