Black Angels Epidemic

[MEAlston]

I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this true
and if so, is the issue still current?

[NetMax]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
>I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
> due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this
> true
> and if so, is the issue still current?


Imported Angels are almost always a poor idea. They are quite weak, and
there has been a lot of problems with viruses over the years. Generally,
black & marble Angels are genetically weaker and more prone to disease, so
imported blacks would be very dicey.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[MEAlston]

So if I were to order any black angels on-line...? I had considered Foster
& Smith as a source. Should I stay away from black angels altogether or do
you know of a reliable source of domestic blacks?

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:20:58 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
>>I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
>> due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this
>> true
>> and if so, is the issue still current?
>
>
>Imported Angels are almost always a poor idea. They are quite weak, and
>there has been a lot of problems with viruses over the years. Generally,
>black & marble Angels are genetically weaker and more prone to disease, so
>imported blacks would be very dicey.

I agree on the blacks, even the best bred are often weaker. Over the
years, black marbles have always been very hardy animals for me - but
who knows.

-- Mister Gardener

[Charles]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:18:21 GMT, "MEAlston"
> wrote:

>I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
>due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this true
>and if so, is the issue still current?
>

someone was promoting the idea that all angles from some large chain
were infected with a virus. True or not? I have no idea.

If there were something in particular I wanted I'd go to Aquabid, find
a breeder there and ask them about their particular stock.

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:35:04 GMT, Charles >
wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:18:21 GMT, "MEAlston"
> wrote:
>
>>I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
>>due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this true
>>and if so, is the issue still current?
>>
>
>someone was promoting the idea that all angles from some large chain
>were infected with a virus. True or not? I have no idea.
>
>If there were something in particular I wanted I'd go to Aquabid, find
>a breeder there and ask them about their particular stock.

Oh, believe me, I have the current stock and prices memorized at
Angels Plus and the other web sellers. I have been hoping I could go
locally, but it's not looking great right now. And I'm also hearing
from some that breeder fishes aren't always a good deal either, many
supposedly with very poor immune systems from their pampered
lifestyle.

-- Mister Gardener

[NetMax]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
> So if I were to order any black angels on-line...? I had considered
> Foster
> & Smith as a source. Should I stay away from black angels altogether
> or do
> you know of a reliable source of domestic blacks?


It's not possible to comment on the quality of your local stock, though
generally local breeders have a better handle on the situation. Buying
on-line might be hit & miss, as these places can buy off-shore for a
significant profit margin, and the fish are often fine in species tanks.
Mix them up with other fish, and the exposure to pathogens takes their
weak systems down. That has been my limited experience.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[MEAlston]

Well, as it is...I'm itching to gamble with a couple of black angels I found
at Foster & Smith online. It's in my price range, although I'm not wild
about the transport they'll suffer intransit to my residence. It's an itch
I can rein in though until I've exhausted my search.

Should anyone know of a reputable breeder in the SouthEast, I'm in West
Alabama. Money's tight, business is way past slow...blah blah bleh...you
know the drill. Thanks for the reply...ED

[Pete Becker]

MEAlston wrote:

> Well, as it is...I'm itching to gamble with a couple of black angels I found
> at Foster & Smith online. It's in my price range, although I'm not wild
> about the transport they'll suffer intransit to my residence. It's an itch
> I can rein in though until I've exhausted my search.
>

Don't forget that Foster & Smith charges you for overnight shipping.
That's an additional $35 in the continental US.

--

Pete Becker
Roundhouse Consulting, Ltd.

[MEAlston]

Yeah, that's stamped on my forehead for sure. I can't find an easier way
from here.

[Tynk]

Charles wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:18:21 GMT, "MEAlston"
> > wrote:
>
> >I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
> >due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this true
> >and if so, is the issue still current?
> >
>

>
> If there were something in particular I wanted I'd go to Aquabid, find
> a breeder there and ask them about their particular stock.

Hi there Charles.

> someone was promoting the idea that all angles from some large chain
> were infected with a virus. True or not? I have no idea.

Most likely, that was me. = )
Several yrs ago Petsmart started carrying Angelfish again. However,
they got imported ones from their wholesaler. They have a stop over in
Florida before being shipped out the individual stores.
Either they're coming in with the Angelfish virus (aka Discus plague as
it only affects Discus and Angelfish, but any fish can be a carrier and
infect healthy Angels and Discus...even rooms away from them!), or..the
stop over farms in Florida never killed off the virus from when it
first hit in the late 80's. That was the begining of local shops buying
only locally, US bred Angels as the imports were bringing in the virus
back then.
Being that most pet shops carry locally bred angels, now local simply
means either in the area or in the USA in general...anything that is
not imported from Singapore, etc., this leads me to believe that
they're picking it up at the stop off farms in Florida.
You see...it's 100% fatal for young angels and about 80% fatal for
healthy adult angels.
There's a 14 day incubation period for the virus. If these youngsters
(over 14 days old) were making it past 14 days old...they're not bring
it with them, but catching it along the way. Of course this is my own
personal hypothosis of the situation.
However, it's the only thing that makes sense in my head.
I'm curious if others who have also been through the invasion of the
virus in the late 80's and is still active in Angelfish or Discus what
they think about my idea.
For years Petsmart would get in small and medium Angels that appeared
perfectly healthy. 2 weeks later all the youngsters died off and the
adults were showing clear symptoms of the virus. 20% of those adults
made it through it.
I battled Petsmart over this and they outright denied (to me live..on
the phone!) that the virus ever existed, that there's never been such a
virus in the USA, and that they can guarantee that all their Angels, in
all of their stores, were perfectly healthy.
Right then and there I knew that they knew and didn't give a crap about
it and weren't going to do anything about it either.
They knew what it would take to get the virus out of their stores
too...not something they would want to do. They'd lose money, AND most
of all..if they admitted to knowingly selling fish carrying a deadly
virus to 2 species of fish they would be sued by knowledgeable
aquarists who knew what's going on.
It's been several years since (like 6-7 yrs ago) and they still have
infected Angels.
I personally know several folks who work at Petsmart's (differrent
stores) and they have been fed a line of bullcrappy that's ridiculous.
I know several who had complained to the corp. offices about the sick
Angelfish they care constantly getting in, or turningup sick after
going into home if customers and them bring back dead fish in...all
having had the same symptoms before death (typical symptoms of the
disease).
Finally the company told the stores with complaining employees that it
was pH shock and nothing to worry about.
Of course the knowledgeable (there's a few out there) employees knew
that was bullcrap and thought somethings *fishy* here. Ph shock. what a
joke.
My son was over yesterday and he and his girfriend brought over an old
friend from high school with them. She works for one of the Petsmarts
in the next town.
I asked if they were still having troubles with the Angels and they
are.
I asked..are they still getting imports...she said "Well, they come in
from our farms in Florida." That's says enough right there. = /

[Tynk]

Hi there MEAlston.



> I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
> due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this true
> and if so, is the issue still current?

As far as a disease affecting only certain colors of Angels....no.
However, some color strains are not as hardy as others. Black Angels
are not the hardiest strains, but they're not the worst either.
I think the blushers and I forget what other color strains are more
delicate than blacks, but there are some.

As for imported and disease...that's a horse of a different color.
Totally has nothing to do with what color the fish are. Imports have a
tendancy to carry a horrible virus that only affects Angels and Discus,
yet any fish can be a carrier.

The issue of the Angelfish virus (aka Discu plague or Angel plague, or
Angel AIDS) is very much so still current.
This is why you want American bred fish. Not fish from a pet shop who
says "yes, their local"....thinking "local" means from their wholesaler
in Florida. Those are imported.
If the shop knows who the breeder is and can tell you "yes...he's out
of such and such...that's "locally bred". It makes no difference if
they're even in the same state as your shop....just as long as they
aren't imported stock.

Now if you do end up buying Angels...and they're still healthy after a
2 week quarantine (I mean it..no less than 14 days, min 15 days if they
got them the day you buy them), then you can assume the're free of the
virus.
After that...I would strongly urge you never to buy any fish from any
Petsmart, or any shop who for that matter that gets imported Angels.
Being a retired Angelfish breeder and trying to get beack into it, I
must be very....very careful where I buy any fish from out of fear of
bring back in the virus.
I've been hit twice with it. Let me tell you....this is a disease that
puts breeders out of business!
It did it to me in the late 80's... and again to me many yrs back (this
was the time I bought a male Betta that was carrying the virus from
infected Angels they had in their store. Of course I didn't know it at
the time othertwise I would have ran from the store and showered like
the Hazmat folks in the space suits do when you you've been
contaminated by big time nasties).
I've been looking for yrs for good stock locally, but the 2 other
"good" quality..not near the quality I had been getting from my breeder
back in the 80's and 90's, but they have both been put out of business
from the virus. One of them was just within the last couple yrs too.
The other one was about 5 or so yrs back when she got wiped out from
the virus.
So yes..it is still very much a current issue, only many of the shops
now don't even know what the virus is. If they weren't in the business
or hobby back inthe 80's, they often haven't a clue.
Google the virus in any one of those "aka's or just Angelfish virus (or
plague) to find out more.

Now I'm really hoping you were just hearing about certain color strains
being less hardy than others. However, when you mentioned dying of some
disease or being imports....my red flags went bonkers! = O
Been there twice already...and have been trying very hard for yrs not
have the pleasure again.

[Koi-Lo]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>> They knew what it would take to get the virus out of their stores
> too...not something they would want to do. They'd lose money, AND most
> of all..if they admitted to knowingly selling fish carrying a deadly
> virus to 2 species of fish they would be sued by knowledgeable
> aquarists who knew what's going on.
> It's been several years since (like 6-7 yrs ago) and they still have
> infected Angels.
======================
The PM store where I bought the GF infested with gillflukes readily admitted
they had a problem, told me the name of the breeder in AK and pulled every
GF in the store. I was told they were switching suppliers. The GF tanks
were empty when I went back to the store with a bag of dead GF, along with
slides of the gillflukes and my receipts. He never tried to deny a thing
and replaced every fish I lost. I had to wait until they cleaned the system
and got all new fish in. I was happy they did that but it still left me
with tanks, tubs, filters and all kinds of stuff to sterilize besides the
emotional pain of watching all those fish die one by one........
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on this NG.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Nikki]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
>
> Hi there MEAlston.
>
>
>
>> I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
>> due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this
>> true
>> and if so, is the issue still current?
>
> As far as a disease affecting only certain colors of Angels....no.
> However, some color strains are not as hardy as others. Black Angels
> are not the hardiest strains, but they're not the worst either.
> I think the blushers and I forget what other color strains are more
> delicate than blacks, but there are some.
>
> As for imported and disease...that's a horse of a different color.
> Totally has nothing to do with what color the fish are. Imports have a
> tendancy to carry a horrible virus that only affects Angels and Discus,
> yet any fish can be a carrier.
>
> The issue of the Angelfish virus (aka Discu plague or Angel plague, or
> Angel AIDS) is very much so still current.
> This is why you want American bred fish. Not fish from a pet shop who
> says "yes, their local"....thinking "local" means from their wholesaler
> in Florida. Those are imported.
> If the shop knows who the breeder is and can tell you "yes...he's out
> of such and such...that's "locally bred". It makes no difference if
> they're even in the same state as your shop....just as long as they
> aren't imported stock.
>
> Now if you do end up buying Angels...and they're still healthy after a
> 2 week quarantine (I mean it..no less than 14 days, min 15 days if they
> got them the day you buy them), then you can assume the're free of the
> virus.
> After that...I would strongly urge you never to buy any fish from any
> Petsmart, or any shop who for that matter that gets imported Angels.
> Being a retired Angelfish breeder and trying to get beack into it, I
> must be very....very careful where I buy any fish from out of fear of
> bring back in the virus.
> I've been hit twice with it. Let me tell you....this is a disease that
> puts breeders out of business!
> It did it to me in the late 80's... and again to me many yrs back (this
> was the time I bought a male Betta that was carrying the virus from
> infected Angels they had in their store. Of course I didn't know it at
> the time othertwise I would have ran from the store and showered like
> the Hazmat folks in the space suits do when you you've been
> contaminated by big time nasties).
> I've been looking for yrs for good stock locally, but the 2 other
> "good" quality..not near the quality I had been getting from my breeder
> back in the 80's and 90's, but they have both been put out of business
> from the virus. One of them was just within the last couple yrs too.
> The other one was about 5 or so yrs back when she got wiped out from
> the virus.
> So yes..it is still very much a current issue, only many of the shops
> now don't even know what the virus is. If they weren't in the business
> or hobby back inthe 80's, they often haven't a clue.
> Google the virus in any one of those "aka's or just Angelfish virus (or
> plague) to find out more.
>
> Now I'm really hoping you were just hearing about certain color strains
> being less hardy than others. However, when you mentioned dying of some
> disease or being imports....my red flags went bonkers! = O
> Been there twice already...and have been trying very hard for yrs not
> have the pleasure again.
>
tynk, i read a post from you a while back saying you lost all your female
betta's then did not see you for a while, what happend?
Nik

[Tynk]

Nikki wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi there MEAlston.
> >
> >
> >
> >> I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the petshops
> >> due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this
> >> true
> >> and if so, is the issue still current?
> >
> > As far as a disease affecting only certain colors of Angels....no.
> > However, some color strains are not as hardy as others. Black Angels
> > are not the hardiest strains, but they're not the worst either.
> > I think the blushers and I forget what other color strains are more
> > delicate than blacks, but there are some.
> >
> > As for imported and disease...that's a horse of a different color.
> > Totally has nothing to do with what color the fish are. Imports have a
> > tendancy to carry a horrible virus that only affects Angels and Discus,
> > yet any fish can be a carrier.
> >
> > The issue of the Angelfish virus (aka Discu plague or Angel plague, or
> > Angel AIDS) is very much so still current.
> > This is why you want American bred fish. Not fish from a pet shop who
> > says "yes, their local"....thinking "local" means from their wholesaler
> > in Florida. Those are imported.
> > If the shop knows who the breeder is and can tell you "yes...he's out
> > of such and such...that's "locally bred". It makes no difference if
> > they're even in the same state as your shop....just as long as they
> > aren't imported stock.
> >
> > Now if you do end up buying Angels...and they're still healthy after a
> > 2 week quarantine (I mean it..no less than 14 days, min 15 days if they
> > got them the day you buy them), then you can assume the're free of the
> > virus.
> > After that...I would strongly urge you never to buy any fish from any
> > Petsmart, or any shop who for that matter that gets imported Angels.
> > Being a retired Angelfish breeder and trying to get beack into it, I
> > must be very....very careful where I buy any fish from out of fear of
> > bring back in the virus.
> > I've been hit twice with it. Let me tell you....this is a disease that
> > puts breeders out of business!
> > It did it to me in the late 80's... and again to me many yrs back (this
> > was the time I bought a male Betta that was carrying the virus from
> > infected Angels they had in their store. Of course I didn't know it at
> > the time othertwise I would have ran from the store and showered like
> > the Hazmat folks in the space suits do when you you've been
> > contaminated by big time nasties).
> > I've been looking for yrs for good stock locally, but the 2 other
> > "good" quality..not near the quality I had been getting from my breeder
> > back in the 80's and 90's, but they have both been put out of business
> > from the virus. One of them was just within the last couple yrs too.
> > The other one was about 5 or so yrs back when she got wiped out from
> > the virus.
> > So yes..it is still very much a current issue, only many of the shops
> > now don't even know what the virus is. If they weren't in the business
> > or hobby back inthe 80's, they often haven't a clue.
> > Google the virus in any one of those "aka's or just Angelfish virus (or
> > plague) to find out more.
> >
> > Now I'm really hoping you were just hearing about certain color strains
> > being less hardy than others. However, when you mentioned dying of some
> > disease or being imports....my red flags went bonkers! = O
> > Been there twice already...and have been trying very hard for yrs not
> > have the pleasure again.
> >


Hi there Nikki.

> tynk, i read a post from you a while back saying you lost all your female
> betta's then did not see you for a while, what happend?
> Nik

(Off topic)

Thanks for asking. = )
Life got a bit busy here for a while, then my Grandma was told she has
cancer running through all of her major organs...this she found out in
the hospital after she fell and broke both her hip and her shoulder.
Now during this period of time for her healing from the breaks and
doing all the tests etc for what type and where the cancer is, etc...I
wiped out on my bike while riding the trails in the forest preserve our
family loves. I was going fast around a left turn when I spied a baby
snake and swerved ever so slightly to avoide running it over...well
duh! As I was going down I said out loud to myself.."Ah, crap." lol
At least I know how to fall and had my gloves on so my hands didn't
ripped up, but my left calf sure did.
I took absolute proper wound care of it (it's a 6" x 3" deep area),
but I'm told (after the fact) that these are actually pretty bad wounds
and often get bacteria in then right at the scene of the accident and
become infected no matter how good a care you take of it....and that's
what happened.
My leg is infected and it's so painful!!! Not the wound at all...I
tougher than a man when it comes to pain like that..but I knew
something wasn't right because it hurt more than it should underneath
the wound. I thought I may had chipped bone or a small fracture so I
went to have it x-rayed and the Doc took one look and said that's
infected. Didn't look infected to me but what do I know. I'm not a Doc
and if it's not oozing puss and streaking red it doesn't look infected
to me. It was though and a nasty one at that.
Nothing about makes sense either (to me). As long as I'm constantly
moving it, it the pain goes to zero...I stop for a minutes and 30
seconds later it shoots to an 8 (1-10 pain scale)...then 1-2 minutes
later it's back to zero. When sitting I have to have it elevated or
else it kills. However, when I get up I can only take 3-4 steps before
it's back to an 8...then I just have to grin and bear it until it lets
up (1-2 minutes) ane then it's back to zero. The Doc said that's from
the infection.
I still don't get it though. Maybe I'm too dense, but I would think it
would hurt all the time, not just with certain things and then go to
nothing.
I've been on heavy duty antibiotics and am doing much better. The pain
is better but not gone..just hurts when I stop moving or after getting
up after sitting, and the wound is healing nicely. The swelling is
almost gone too. Amazing what a little pill can do in a couple days.
I tell ya though...yesterday it looked more like the wound from flesh
eating bacteria disease and this morning I woke up to no hole in the
middle of my leg. Yea!!!

Oh man.
I was just on the phone. My Grandma passed. = (

[MEAlston]

I'm very sorry about your Grandmother... and as for the wounds...keep
hydrogen peroxide in the house.

[Altum]

Tynk wrote:

> Oh man.
> I was just on the phone. My Grandma passed. = (

I'm very sorry to hear that, Tynk.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Nikki]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Nikki wrote:
>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi there MEAlston.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> I heard not long ago that the black angels were dying off in the
>> >> petshops
>> >> due to some disease. Not sure if they were imported or what. Is this
>> >> true
>> >> and if so, is the issue still current?
>> >
>> > As far as a disease affecting only certain colors of Angels....no.
>> > However, some color strains are not as hardy as others. Black Angels
>> > are not the hardiest strains, but they're not the worst either.
>> > I think the blushers and I forget what other color strains are more
>> > delicate than blacks, but there are some.
>> >
>> > As for imported and disease...that's a horse of a different color.
>> > Totally has nothing to do with what color the fish are. Imports have a
>> > tendancy to carry a horrible virus that only affects Angels and Discus,
>> > yet any fish can be a carrier.
>> >
>> > The issue of the Angelfish virus (aka Discu plague or Angel plague, or
>> > Angel AIDS) is very much so still current.
>> > This is why you want American bred fish. Not fish from a pet shop who
>> > says "yes, their local"....thinking "local" means from their wholesaler
>> > in Florida. Those are imported.
>> > If the shop knows who the breeder is and can tell you "yes...he's out
>> > of such and such...that's "locally bred". It makes no difference if
>> > they're even in the same state as your shop....just as long as they
>> > aren't imported stock.
>> >
>> > Now if you do end up buying Angels...and they're still healthy after a
>> > 2 week quarantine (I mean it..no less than 14 days, min 15 days if they
>> > got them the day you buy them), then you can assume the're free of the
>> > virus.
>> > After that...I would strongly urge you never to buy any fish from any
>> > Petsmart, or any shop who for that matter that gets imported Angels.
>> > Being a retired Angelfish breeder and trying to get beack into it, I
>> > must be very....very careful where I buy any fish from out of fear of
>> > bring back in the virus.
>> > I've been hit twice with it. Let me tell you....this is a disease that
>> > puts breeders out of business!
>> > It did it to me in the late 80's... and again to me many yrs back (this
>> > was the time I bought a male Betta that was carrying the virus from
>> > infected Angels they had in their store. Of course I didn't know it at
>> > the time othertwise I would have ran from the store and showered like
>> > the Hazmat folks in the space suits do when you you've been
>> > contaminated by big time nasties).
>> > I've been looking for yrs for good stock locally, but the 2 other
>> > "good" quality..not near the quality I had been getting from my breeder
>> > back in the 80's and 90's, but they have both been put out of business
>> > from the virus. One of them was just within the last couple yrs too.
>> > The other one was about 5 or so yrs back when she got wiped out from
>> > the virus.
>> > So yes..it is still very much a current issue, only many of the shops
>> > now don't even know what the virus is. If they weren't in the business
>> > or hobby back inthe 80's, they often haven't a clue.
>> > Google the virus in any one of those "aka's or just Angelfish virus (or
>> > plague) to find out more.
>> >
>> > Now I'm really hoping you were just hearing about certain color strains
>> > being less hardy than others. However, when you mentioned dying of some
>> > disease or being imports....my red flags went bonkers! = O
>> > Been there twice already...and have been trying very hard for yrs not
>> > have the pleasure again.
>> >
>
>
> Hi there Nikki.
>
>> tynk, i read a post from you a while back saying you lost all your female
>> betta's then did not see you for a while, what happend?
>> Nik
>
> (Off topic)
>
> Thanks for asking. = )
> Life got a bit busy here for a while, then my Grandma was told she has
> cancer running through all of her major organs...this she found out in
> the hospital after she fell and broke both her hip and her shoulder.
> Now during this period of time for her healing from the breaks and
> doing all the tests etc for what type and where the cancer is, etc...I
> wiped out on my bike while riding the trails in the forest preserve our
> family loves. I was going fast around a left turn when I spied a baby
> snake and swerved ever so slightly to avoide running it over...well
> duh! As I was going down I said out loud to myself.."Ah, crap." lol
> At least I know how to fall and had my gloves on so my hands didn't
> ripped up, but my left calf sure did.
> I took absolute proper wound care of it (it's a 6" x 3" deep area),
> but I'm told (after the fact) that these are actually pretty bad wounds
> and often get bacteria in then right at the scene of the accident and
> become infected no matter how good a care you take of it....and that's
> what happened.
> My leg is infected and it's so painful!!! Not the wound at all...I
> tougher than a man when it comes to pain like that..but I knew
> something wasn't right because it hurt more than it should underneath
> the wound. I thought I may had chipped bone or a small fracture so I
> went to have it x-rayed and the Doc took one look and said that's
> infected. Didn't look infected to me but what do I know. I'm not a Doc
> and if it's not oozing puss and streaking red it doesn't look infected
> to me. It was though and a nasty one at that.
> Nothing about makes sense either (to me). As long as I'm constantly
> moving it, it the pain goes to zero...I stop for a minutes and 30
> seconds later it shoots to an 8 (1-10 pain scale)...then 1-2 minutes
> later it's back to zero. When sitting I have to have it elevated or
> else it kills. However, when I get up I can only take 3-4 steps before
> it's back to an 8...then I just have to grin and bear it until it lets
> up (1-2 minutes) ane then it's back to zero. The Doc said that's from
> the infection.
> I still don't get it though. Maybe I'm too dense, but I would think it
> would hurt all the time, not just with certain things and then go to
> nothing.
> I've been on heavy duty antibiotics and am doing much better. The pain
> is better but not gone..just hurts when I stop moving or after getting
> up after sitting, and the wound is healing nicely. The swelling is
> almost gone too. Amazing what a little pill can do in a couple days.
> I tell ya though...yesterday it looked more like the wound from flesh
> eating bacteria disease and this morning I woke up to no hole in the
> middle of my leg. Yea!!!
>
> Oh man.
> I was just on the phone. My Grandma passed. = (
>

Tynk : ( I am so sorry, both about your leg, and about losing your gram,
that is so hard, some times life just does not seem fair........i lost my
brother last week, a couple days before Easter so i do understand, and will
keep your family in my thoughts.....Take care of your self.
I was going to email you a couple weeks back, i figured you were not online
for one reason or another....i was going to run something by you about which
color female to breed with one of my males.
Did you figure out what happend with all your females?
When you are around and have a minute let me know, ill send you the pics of
my females.
Again i hope you & your family are ok, take care. Oh just a thought, my aunt
had injured her leg, god i think about ten years ago, it also got infected
and she was in and out of doctors offices getting second, third ect.
opinions, in the end she went to a wound doctor, did not know they had
those, they helped a lot...
Nik

[Koi-Lo]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Oh man.
> I was just on the phone. My Grandma passed. = (
=======================
So sorry to hear this. Going quickly is better than suffering and lingering
with what could be a painful disease - may her soul rest in peace.

Take care of your leg.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Tynk]

Koi-Lo wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Oh man.
> > I was just on the phone. My Grandma passed. = (
> =======================
> So sorry to hear this. Going quickly is better than suffering and lingering
> with what could be a painful disease - may her soul rest in peace.
>
> Take care of your leg.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Thanks all for the kind thoughts about my Gramdma passing. It was so
quick.
That really is a blessing when it comes to cancer.
One thing about my Gram was that she didn't feel pain like normal
folks.
I think her pain receptors were wired wrong (so to speak) because she
just didn't feel pain at times when she should be in agony.
She onced ran her arm over with her own car, broke her arm and it
didn't hurt a bit.
When she fell and broke her hip and shoulder, her hip didn't hurt at
all, just her shoulder.
It's pretty amazing actually. She was lucky enough to not feel pain
from her cancer, because it so often is unbearable.
The cancer med they had her on had terrible side affects. So much so
that she wanted off of them. It became a quality of life issue rather
than prolonging it a couple months (that was a big maybe). She had her
Doc appointment a few days after she made that choice. My Dad wanted
her to wait and see what her Doc would say.
My Grams reply....
It'll be too late by then.
She died the day she was to have her appointment. She knew somehow and
wanted her last days without the misery the medication caused her.

My leg is doing much better now. There was some question about blood
clots causing the intense pain when I stood up or stood still for so
long, but the hospital checked and no clots...just that it was a bad
injury (I didn't realize how deep the middle of it was) and my body had
to regenerate a lot of brand new tissue.
I got nervous at one point as it started looking quite odd. I had these
white looking blobs just appear one day. Looked like tiny cones and
then one day little hairs popped out.
= O It was regenerating my little leg hairs..of course I could have
done without those, lol.

Yesterday my sister gave birth to my new little nephew!!
My Mom, Dad and I were all there too. I had figured I'd stop by, and
then let her be and most likely he'd be born after midnight....but
nope. All of a sudden she went fast. She went from half way there, to
THERE in like half an hour or less. We were all going to leave and let
her be, then the nurse came out (as the proud soon to be Dad was
walking us out) and she asked "Who's Steve?" Then she replied.."It's
time to have a baby!"
So we stayed of course and got to see are newest family member only an
hour old.
Gram wanted so badly to make it until he was born, but something tells
me she was there.
Little Daniel was 3 weeks early, but perfect. = )

Maybe now I can exhale. Boy when life gets moving so fast and so many
major things happen all at once you tend to forget exhale and settle
your self until you are wound so tight.
My poor fish tanks have been let go. They're full of algae (the 75g is
the worst because it's across from a huge picture window). No water
changes (I'm hanging my head low) but today they get done..all of them.
Good thing I didn't have any fry tanks going.

It's also a good thing that I have some BioSpira in the frige, as I
have to do algae scraping, at least a 40% water change and the Magnum
needs cleaing too. Something I never do all at once without BioSpira on
hand. Otherwise I'd be having a bacteria bloom.
I guess I'll catch up on reading the newsgroup another time. = /
Have a Betta day all!

[Nikki]

> Thanks all for the kind thoughts about my Gramdma passing. It was so
> quick.
> That really is a blessing when it comes to cancer.
> One thing about my Gram was that she didn't feel pain like normal
> folks.
> I think her pain receptors were wired wrong (so to speak) because she
> just didn't feel pain at times when she should be in agony.
> She onced ran her arm over with her own car, broke her arm and it
> didn't hurt a bit.
> When she fell and broke her hip and shoulder, her hip didn't hurt at
> all, just her shoulder.
> It's pretty amazing actually. She was lucky enough to not feel pain
> from her cancer, because it so often is unbearable.
> The cancer med they had her on had terrible side affects. So much so
> that she wanted off of them. It became a quality of life issue rather
> than prolonging it a couple months (that was a big maybe). She had her
> Doc appointment a few days after she made that choice. My Dad wanted
> her to wait and see what her Doc would say.
> My Grams reply....
> It'll be too late by then.
> She died the day she was to have her appointment. She knew somehow and
> wanted her last days without the misery the medication caused her.
>
> My leg is doing much better now. There was some question about blood
> clots causing the intense pain when I stood up or stood still for so
> long, but the hospital checked and no clots...just that it was a bad
> injury (I didn't realize how deep the middle of it was) and my body had
> to regenerate a lot of brand new tissue.
> I got nervous at one point as it started looking quite odd. I had these
> white looking blobs just appear one day. Looked like tiny cones and
> then one day little hairs popped out.
> = O It was regenerating my little leg hairs..of course I could have
> done without those, lol.
>
> Yesterday my sister gave birth to my new little nephew!!
> My Mom, Dad and I were all there too. I had figured I'd stop by, and
> then let her be and most likely he'd be born after midnight....but
> nope. All of a sudden she went fast. She went from half way there, to
> THERE in like half an hour or less. We were all going to leave and let
> her be, then the nurse came out (as the proud soon to be Dad was
> walking us out) and she asked "Who's Steve?" Then she replied.."It's
> time to have a baby!"
> So we stayed of course and got to see are newest family member only an
> hour old.
> Gram wanted so badly to make it until he was born, but something tells
> me she was there.
> Little Daniel was 3 weeks early, but perfect. = )
>
> Maybe now I can exhale. Boy when life gets moving so fast and so many
> major things happen all at once you tend to forget exhale and settle
> your self until you are wound so tight.
> My poor fish tanks have been let go. They're full of algae (the 75g is
> the worst because it's across from a huge picture window). No water
> changes (I'm hanging my head low) but today they get done..all of them.
> Good thing I didn't have any fry tanks going.
>
> It's also a good thing that I have some BioSpira in the frige, as I
> have to do algae scraping, at least a 40% water change and the Magnum
> needs cleaing too. Something I never do all at once without BioSpira on
> hand. Otherwise I'd be having a bacteria bloom.
> I guess I'll catch up on reading the newsgroup another time. = /
> Have a Betta day all!
>

Wow girl, when things get crazy in your life they really get crazy, huh
Very sorry about your gram:( Glad she did no suffer a lot...
Congratulations on the new addition to the family:) Love babies, they seem
to always make things a little better
My first one took 49 hours ouch....second just 12 hours...and Luke 1 hour,
they like to keep you on your toes, get you prepared for when they grow
up..lol
Know what you mean about letting the tanks go, so don't feel bad, I had luke
in the hospital a few weeks back, then my brother killed him self, gees my
house looked almost as bad as my tanks, both got let go, but it got taken
care of when i got to it.
Hope your leg heals and you dont continute to have problems with it....Nice
to see you around again
take care Nik

[Tynk]

Nikki wrote:
> > Thanks all for the kind thoughts about my Gramdma passing. It was so
> > quick.
> > That really is a blessing when it comes to cancer.
> > One thing about my Gram was that she didn't feel pain like normal
> > folks.
> > I think her pain receptors were wired wrong (so to speak) because she
> > just didn't feel pain at times when she should be in agony.
> > She onced ran her arm over with her own car, broke her arm and it
> > didn't hurt a bit.
> > When she fell and broke her hip and shoulder, her hip didn't hurt at
> > all, just her shoulder.
> > It's pretty amazing actually. She was lucky enough to not feel pain
> > from her cancer, because it so often is unbearable.
> > The cancer med they had her on had terrible side affects. So much so
> > that she wanted off of them. It became a quality of life issue rather
> > than prolonging it a couple months (that was a big maybe). She had her
> > Doc appointment a few days after she made that choice. My Dad wanted
> > her to wait and see what her Doc would say.
> > My Grams reply....
> > It'll be too late by then.
> > She died the day she was to have her appointment. She knew somehow and
> > wanted her last days without the misery the medication caused her.
> >
> > My leg is doing much better now. There was some question about blood
> > clots causing the intense pain when I stood up or stood still for so
> > long, but the hospital checked and no clots...just that it was a bad
> > injury (I didn't realize how deep the middle of it was) and my body had
> > to regenerate a lot of brand new tissue.
> > I got nervous at one point as it started looking quite odd. I had these
> > white looking blobs just appear one day. Looked like tiny cones and
> > then one day little hairs popped out.
> > = O It was regenerating my little leg hairs..of course I could have
> > done without those, lol.
> >
> > Yesterday my sister gave birth to my new little nephew!!
> > My Mom, Dad and I were all there too. I had figured I'd stop by, and
> > then let her be and most likely he'd be born after midnight....but
> > nope. All of a sudden she went fast. She went from half way there, to
> > THERE in like half an hour or less. We were all going to leave and let
> > her be, then the nurse came out (as the proud soon to be Dad was
> > walking us out) and she asked "Who's Steve?" Then she replied.."It's
> > time to have a baby!"
> > So we stayed of course and got to see are newest family member only an
> > hour old.
> > Gram wanted so badly to make it until he was born, but something tells
> > me she was there.
> > Little Daniel was 3 weeks early, but perfect. = )
> >
> > Maybe now I can exhale. Boy when life gets moving so fast and so many
> > major things happen all at once you tend to forget exhale and settle
> > your self until you are wound so tight.
> > My poor fish tanks have been let go. They're full of algae (the 75g is
> > the worst because it's across from a huge picture window). No water
> > changes (I'm hanging my head low) but today they get done..all of them.
> > Good thing I didn't have any fry tanks going.
> >
> > It's also a good thing that I have some BioSpira in the frige, as I
> > have to do algae scraping, at least a 40% water change and the Magnum
> > needs cleaing too. Something I never do all at once without BioSpira on
> > hand. Otherwise I'd be having a bacteria bloom.
> > I guess I'll catch up on reading the newsgroup another time. = /
> > Have a Betta day all!
> >
>
> Wow girl, when things get crazy in your life they really get crazy, huh
> Very sorry about your gram:( Glad she did no suffer a lot...
> Congratulations on the new addition to the family:) Love babies, they seem
> to always make things a little better
> My first one took 49 hours ouch....second just 12 hours...and Luke 1 hour,
> they like to keep you on your toes, get you prepared for when they grow
> up..lol
> Know what you mean about letting the tanks go, so don't feel bad, I had luke
> in the hospital a few weeks back, then my brother killed him self, gees my
> house looked almost as bad as my tanks, both got let go, but it got taken
> care of when i got to it.
> Hope your leg heals and you dont continute to have problems with it....Nice
> to see you around again
> take care Nik

Oh those poor fish. = /
They got fed, but the tanks had no care other than that.
The house...well lets just say I'm still catching up on that.
My Mustang even had dust on it!!!!! = O
I couldn't take it when it got hit with bird doo....I had to run and
wash it, then waxed and buffed it at home until late. Hubby knew I'd be
out in the garage for at least a couple hours, so he went to bed. I
came in and all the lights were off and both he and our daughter were
fast alseep. = )~
Today....yard work and I have to wax and buff my car.
I enjoy working on the car though.
I guess it's odd. Hubby doesn't get it, but I know there's folks out
there that know just what I mean!

Darn good thing I don't know squat about the engine. He'd never see me
again!

Found some lovely long finned female Bettas last night. Comb tail to
boot. I haven't seen comb tails since the Crowntails took over.

Still no luck finding any good angels.
Even I'm starting to consider paying the shipping costs and getting
some from Angel's plus.

[Nikki]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Nikki wrote:
>> > Thanks all for the kind thoughts about my Gramdma passing. It was so
>> > quick.
>> > That really is a blessing when it comes to cancer.
>> > One thing about my Gram was that she didn't feel pain like normal
>> > folks.
>> > I think her pain receptors were wired wrong (so to speak) because she
>> > just didn't feel pain at times when she should be in agony.
>> > She onced ran her arm over with her own car, broke her arm and it
>> > didn't hurt a bit.
>> > When she fell and broke her hip and shoulder, her hip didn't hurt at
>> > all, just her shoulder.
>> > It's pretty amazing actually. She was lucky enough to not feel pain
>> > from her cancer, because it so often is unbearable.
>> > The cancer med they had her on had terrible side affects. So much so
>> > that she wanted off of them. It became a quality of life issue rather
>> > than prolonging it a couple months (that was a big maybe). She had her
>> > Doc appointment a few days after she made that choice. My Dad wanted
>> > her to wait and see what her Doc would say.
>> > My Grams reply....
>> > It'll be too late by then.
>> > She died the day she was to have her appointment. She knew somehow and
>> > wanted her last days without the misery the medication caused her.
>> >
>> > My leg is doing much better now. There was some question about blood
>> > clots causing the intense pain when I stood up or stood still for so
>> > long, but the hospital checked and no clots...just that it was a bad
>> > injury (I didn't realize how deep the middle of it was) and my body had
>> > to regenerate a lot of brand new tissue.
>> > I got nervous at one point as it started looking quite odd. I had these
>> > white looking blobs just appear one day. Looked like tiny cones and
>> > then one day little hairs popped out.
>> > = O It was regenerating my little leg hairs..of course I could have
>> > done without those, lol.
>> >
>> > Yesterday my sister gave birth to my new little nephew!!
>> > My Mom, Dad and I were all there too. I had figured I'd stop by, and
>> > then let her be and most likely he'd be born after midnight....but
>> > nope. All of a sudden she went fast. She went from half way there, to
>> > THERE in like half an hour or less. We were all going to leave and let
>> > her be, then the nurse came out (as the proud soon to be Dad was
>> > walking us out) and she asked "Who's Steve?" Then she replied.."It's
>> > time to have a baby!"
>> > So we stayed of course and got to see are newest family member only an
>> > hour old.
>> > Gram wanted so badly to make it until he was born, but something tells
>> > me she was there.
>> > Little Daniel was 3 weeks early, but perfect. = )
>> >
>> > Maybe now I can exhale. Boy when life gets moving so fast and so many
>> > major things happen all at once you tend to forget exhale and settle
>> > your self until you are wound so tight.
>> > My poor fish tanks have been let go. They're full of algae (the 75g is
>> > the worst because it's across from a huge picture window). No water
>> > changes (I'm hanging my head low) but today they get done..all of them.
>> > Good thing I didn't have any fry tanks going.
>> >
>> > It's also a good thing that I have some BioSpira in the frige, as I
>> > have to do algae scraping, at least a 40% water change and the Magnum
>> > needs cleaing too. Something I never do all at once without BioSpira on
>> > hand. Otherwise I'd be having a bacteria bloom.
>> > I guess I'll catch up on reading the newsgroup another time. = /
>> > Have a Betta day all!
>> >
>>
>> Wow girl, when things get crazy in your life they really get crazy, huh
>> Very sorry about your gram:( Glad she did no suffer a lot...
>> Congratulations on the new addition to the family:) Love babies, they
>> seem
>> to always make things a little better
>> My first one took 49 hours ouch....second just 12 hours...and Luke 1
>> hour,
>> they like to keep you on your toes, get you prepared for when they grow
>> up..lol
>> Know what you mean about letting the tanks go, so don't feel bad, I had
>> luke
>> in the hospital a few weeks back, then my brother killed him self, gees
>> my
>> house looked almost as bad as my tanks, both got let go, but it got taken
>> care of when i got to it.
>> Hope your leg heals and you dont continute to have problems with
>> it....Nice
>> to see you around again
>> take care Nik
>
> Oh those poor fish. = /
> They got fed, but the tanks had no care other than that.
> The house...well lets just say I'm still catching up on that.
> My Mustang even had dust on it!!!!! = O
> I couldn't take it when it got hit with bird doo....I had to run and
> wash it, then waxed and buffed it at home until late. Hubby knew I'd be
> out in the garage for at least a couple hours, so he went to bed. I
> came in and all the lights were off and both he and our daughter were
> fast alseep. = )~
> Today....yard work and I have to wax and buff my car.
> I enjoy working on the car though.
> I guess it's odd. Hubby doesn't get it, but I know there's folks out
> there that know just what I mean!
>
> Darn good thing I don't know squat about the engine. He'd never see me
> again!
>
> Found some lovely long finned female Bettas last night. Comb tail to
> boot. I haven't seen comb tails since the Crowntails took over.
>
> Still no luck finding any good angels.
> Even I'm starting to consider paying the shipping costs and getting
> some from Angel's plus.
>

I will be getting some angels from this place around me, its not a normal
fish store, its kind of out of the way, but the guy breeds angels and
cichlids and others but he has such nice angels and discus, big very big...
http://www.alloddballaquatics.com/index.html (he ships if you want to take a
look) I emailed him about the angel disease since he has so many healthy
angels and don't seem to have any problems with it, he said he does not
order any of his fish, they are all breed here and have been for years same
with the discus so he said he has seen the disease years ago but said your
more likely to deal with it if the store orders from fishfarms and places
like that. I was amazed to see how big some of his were, he has 2-3 floors
of just breeding tanks.
He just got some female bettas for me, I am going to start another tank of
them, I have nine in my one tank and they all get along very well, plus the
seven males, I am going to get some different males for breeding.
Nik
What happened to your females? you never said

[Mister Gardener]

On 6 May 2006 09:11:31 -0700, "Tynk" > wrote:
>Still no luck finding any good angels.
>Even I'm starting to consider paying the shipping costs and getting
>some from Angel's plus.

I'm probably buying within the next week. I've spent a lot of time
looking at about a dozen different sellers, they all look reputable
(!?!) and after narrowing it down to the fish I want and the best
warranty and prices, I'm between Angels Plus and Angels By Carolyn.
http://www.angelsbycarolyn.com/angelsnow.html

I've contacted both places a couple of times, Carolyn more than Angels
Plus, and I've gotten quick, satisfying responses from both. I'm
pretty certain I am going with Carolyn's - their prices are about a
dollar cheaper, their minimum order is less, and the shipping quotes
for the two places were within a couple of dollars of each other,
around $45. I found more flexibility at Carolyn's, when I asked how
they define small and medium, I was told that of the fish I am most
interested in, the mediums are currently between quarter and half
dollar sized - which is a lot of bang for the buck. Angels Plus seems
to ship nickel sized and that's that, without going into very
expensive breeders. Emails from Carolyn's were more personal, Angels
Plus more cut and dry. I still haven't made up my mind for certain.
Let me know what you do, when you do it. I'm also looking at Wayne's
World, which is about a day's drive from my home, I'd spend the
shipping on gas for my van and also have to overnight in a motel,
which doesn't make economic sense unless I just want to take a quick
holiday.


-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

[Tynk]

Nikki wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Nikki wrote:
> >> > Thanks all for the kind thoughts about my Gramdma passing. It was so
> >> > quick.
> >> > That really is a blessing when it comes to cancer.
> >> > One thing about my Gram was that she didn't feel pain like normal
> >> > folks.
> >> > I think her pain receptors were wired wrong (so to speak) because she
> >> > just didn't feel pain at times when she should be in agony.
> >> > She onced ran her arm over with her own car, broke her arm and it
> >> > didn't hurt a bit.
> >> > When she fell and broke her hip and shoulder, her hip didn't hurt at
> >> > all, just her shoulder.
> >> > It's pretty amazing actually. She was lucky enough to not feel pain
> >> > from her cancer, because it so often is unbearable.
> >> > The cancer med they had her on had terrible side affects. So much so
> >> > that she wanted off of them. It became a quality of life issue rather
> >> > than prolonging it a couple months (that was a big maybe). She had her
> >> > Doc appointment a few days after she made that choice. My Dad wanted
> >> > her to wait and see what her Doc would say.
> >> > My Grams reply....
> >> > It'll be too late by then.
> >> > She died the day she was to have her appointment. She knew somehow and
> >> > wanted her last days without the misery the medication caused her.
> >> >
> >> > My leg is doing much better now. There was some question about blood
> >> > clots causing the intense pain when I stood up or stood still for so
> >> > long, but the hospital checked and no clots...just that it was a bad
> >> > injury (I didn't realize how deep the middle of it was) and my body had
> >> > to regenerate a lot of brand new tissue.
> >> > I got nervous at one point as it started looking quite odd. I had these
> >> > white looking blobs just appear one day. Looked like tiny cones and
> >> > then one day little hairs popped out.
> >> > = O It was regenerating my little leg hairs..of course I could have
> >> > done without those, lol.
> >> >
> >> > Yesterday my sister gave birth to my new little nephew!!
> >> > My Mom, Dad and I were all there too. I had figured I'd stop by, and
> >> > then let her be and most likely he'd be born after midnight....but
> >> > nope. All of a sudden she went fast. She went from half way there, to
> >> > THERE in like half an hour or less. We were all going to leave and let
> >> > her be, then the nurse came out (as the proud soon to be Dad was
> >> > walking us out) and she asked "Who's Steve?" Then she replied.."It's
> >> > time to have a baby!"
> >> > So we stayed of course and got to see are newest family member only an
> >> > hour old.
> >> > Gram wanted so badly to make it until he was born, but something tells
> >> > me she was there.
> >> > Little Daniel was 3 weeks early, but perfect. = )
> >> >
> >> > Maybe now I can exhale. Boy when life gets moving so fast and so many
> >> > major things happen all at once you tend to forget exhale and settle
> >> > your self until you are wound so tight.
> >> > My poor fish tanks have been let go. They're full of algae (the 75g is
> >> > the worst because it's across from a huge picture window). No water
> >> > changes (I'm hanging my head low) but today they get done..all of them.
> >> > Good thing I didn't have any fry tanks going.
> >> >
> >> > It's also a good thing that I have some BioSpira in the frige, as I
> >> > have to do algae scraping, at least a 40% water change and the Magnum
> >> > needs cleaing too. Something I never do all at once without BioSpira on
> >> > hand. Otherwise I'd be having a bacteria bloom.
> >> > I guess I'll catch up on reading the newsgroup another time. = /
> >> > Have a Betta day all!
> >> >
> >>
> >> Wow girl, when things get crazy in your life they really get crazy, huh
> >> Very sorry about your gram:( Glad she did no suffer a lot...
> >> Congratulations on the new addition to the family:) Love babies, they
> >> seem
> >> to always make things a little better
> >> My first one took 49 hours ouch....second just 12 hours...and Luke 1
> >> hour,
> >> they like to keep you on your toes, get you prepared for when they grow
> >> up..lol
> >> Know what you mean about letting the tanks go, so don't feel bad, I had
> >> luke
> >> in the hospital a few weeks back, then my brother killed him self, gees
> >> my
> >> house looked almost as bad as my tanks, both got let go, but it got taken
> >> care of when i got to it.
> >> Hope your leg heals and you dont continute to have problems with
> >> it....Nice
> >> to see you around again
> >> take care Nik
> >
> > Oh those poor fish. = /
> > They got fed, but the tanks had no care other than that.
> > The house...well lets just say I'm still catching up on that.
> > My Mustang even had dust on it!!!!! = O
> > I couldn't take it when it got hit with bird doo....I had to run and
> > wash it, then waxed and buffed it at home until late. Hubby knew I'd be
> > out in the garage for at least a couple hours, so he went to bed. I
> > came in and all the lights were off and both he and our daughter were
> > fast alseep. = )~
> > Today....yard work and I have to wax and buff my car.
> > I enjoy working on the car though.
> > I guess it's odd. Hubby doesn't get it, but I know there's folks out
> > there that know just what I mean!
> >
> > Darn good thing I don't know squat about the engine. He'd never see me
> > again!
> >
> > Found some lovely long finned female Bettas last night. Comb tail to
> > boot. I haven't seen comb tails since the Crowntails took over.
> >
> > Still no luck finding any good angels.
> > Even I'm starting to consider paying the shipping costs and getting
> > some from Angel's plus.
> >
>
> I will be getting some angels from this place around me, its not a normal
> fish store, its kind of out of the way, but the guy breeds angels and
> cichlids and others but he has such nice angels and discus, big very big...
> http://www.alloddballaquatics.com/index.html (he ships if you want to take a
> look) I emailed him about the angel disease since he has so many healthy
> angels and don't seem to have any problems with it, he said he does not
> order any of his fish, they are all breed here and have been for years same
> with the discus so he said he has seen the disease years ago but said your
> more likely to deal with it if the store orders from fishfarms and places
> like that. I was amazed to see how big some of his were, he has 2-3 floors
> of just breeding tanks.
> He just got some female bettas for me, I am going to start another tank of
> them, I have nine in my one tank and they all get along very well, plus the
> seven males, I am going to get some different males for breeding.
> Nik

Hi Nikki
> What happened to your females? you never said

Oh, sorry.
I don't know what exactly it was, but it killed most of them and only
Bettas.
There are virus' that will attack only certain breeds, and I'm assuming
this is the case with my girls.
I have 2 left out of the original batch that were dropping like flies.
The "test" male I had in there was perfectly fine for a very long time
and then he just up and died. I don't know if it was from the same
thing or not. The others took no time to show symptoms and croak, he
was fine for weeks and then just died...body was perfect too, color
great, just dead as a door nail. = /
After more time, I added another "test" male.
He's actually quite lovely. A crowntail, marble.
He's been perfectly fine, although he's a little odd.
But he's always been a little odd.
He does weird things like rest his chin on a resin log, fins are held
stiff, but not a full flare, still as could be, and not move from there
for mintues.
I still haven't frigured out what the heck he's doing.
Is he taking a nap during the day? Is it just more of his weirdness?
I don't know, hehe.
I found 3 more females to add to the couple of combtails I got the
other day.
2 of these are crowntails. They'll all go into quarantine and then I'll
add them to the 75g and see what happens.
Hopefully what ever it was is out of there by now.
My marble male is still fine, just goofy in the head, lol.
The 2 other females in that tank, one of them last night was holding
her tail clamped.
The is the "omega" (lowest on the totum pole) and with there being only
the two of them she's getting put in her place a little too often. I
have a feeling that's why she was holding her tail closed. I may have
to take out the alpha female while these new girls quarantine. That'll
give the little one time heal and become more assertive by claiming
territory while the other is away.

[Nikki]

> Hi Nikki
>> What happened to your females? you never said
>
> Oh, sorry.
> I don't know what exactly it was, but it killed most of them and only
> Bettas.
> There are virus' that will attack only certain breeds, and I'm assuming
> this is the case with my girls.
> I have 2 left out of the original batch that were dropping like flies.
> The "test" male I had in there was perfectly fine for a very long time
> and then he just up and died. I don't know if it was from the same
> thing or not. The others took no time to show symptoms and croak, he
> was fine for weeks and then just died...body was perfect too, color
> great, just dead as a door nail. = /
> After more time, I added another "test" male.
> He's actually quite lovely. A crowntail, marble.
> He's been perfectly fine, although he's a little odd.
> But he's always been a little odd.
> He does weird things like rest his chin on a resin log, fins are held
> stiff, but not a full flare, still as could be, and not move from there
> for mintues.
> I still haven't frigured out what the heck he's doing.
> Is he taking a nap during the day? Is it just more of his weirdness?
> I don't know, hehe.
> I found 3 more females to add to the couple of combtails I got the
> other day.
> 2 of these are crowntails. They'll all go into quarantine and then I'll
> add them to the 75g and see what happens.
> Hopefully what ever it was is out of there by now.
> My marble male is still fine, just goofy in the head, lol.
> The 2 other females in that tank, one of them last night was holding
> her tail clamped.
> The is the "omega" (lowest on the totum pole) and with there being only
> the two of them she's getting put in her place a little too often. I
> have a feeling that's why she was holding her tail closed. I may have
> to take out the alpha female while these new girls quarantine. That'll
> give the little one time heal and become more assertive by claiming
> territory while the other is away.
>

sorry to hear about the female's, I lost one the other day i was mad.... You
know I finally got this male to breed and while I cant get to close to the
tank (stage fright..that's a first) he will stop...I have 20/20 vision and
cant see eggs dropping after he does his thing....this is just a bad week
for spawning, I had two others who were together for a few days and she let
her eggs go while she was swimming and they ate them together, nice snack, I
guess these two are just getting started so we will see what happens, maybe
they can get their act together...
nik
I have some females on hold for me but he is QT them for me for a couple
weeks.
Nik