Algae problem

[David McDermott]

I have finally decided to tackle my aquarium's algae problem. For many
months now I have simply bit the bullet and scrubbed my tank with a algae
scrubber, but over time the situation grew out of control because I couldn't
reach all the little nooks and crannies and the tank was starting to look
really grimy. So, about 3 weeks ago I decided to put a single snail in the
tank to eat. What a job he did too!

I know that many people have problems with snails breeding and taking over
the tank, so me, thinking I was very clever, only got one snail, hoping to
deny him the pleasure of finding a mate. Now my friend informs me that
snails have both male and female parts and can still reproduce. Is this
true? Please say no because he is such a good cleaner and I don't want to
get rid of him (or her, or both I guess)!

[Gill Passman]

David McDermott wrote:
> I have finally decided to tackle my aquarium's algae problem. For many
> months now I have simply bit the bullet and scrubbed my tank with a algae
> scrubber, but over time the situation grew out of control because I couldn't
> reach all the little nooks and crannies and the tank was starting to look
> really grimy. So, about 3 weeks ago I decided to put a single snail in the
> tank to eat. What a job he did too!
>
> I know that many people have problems with snails breeding and taking over
> the tank, so me, thinking I was very clever, only got one snail, hoping to
> deny him the pleasure of finding a mate. Now my friend informs me that
> snails have both male and female parts and can still reproduce. Is this
> true? Please say no because he is such a good cleaner and I don't want to
> get rid of him (or her, or both I guess)!
>
>

I believe that they are hermaphrodites...but don't think that they can
impregnate themselves....from what I remember snails breed by firing
"love-darts" at another snail which stimulates the correct hormone for
breeding - at least land snails do...you might need to google for the
type of snail that you have

If he/she/it is doing a good job on the algae and you are happy I
wouldn't worry about it until you start notice more of them on the glass

Gill

[Altum]

David McDermott wrote:
> I have finally decided to tackle my aquarium's algae problem. For many
> months now I have simply bit the bullet and scrubbed my tank with a algae
> scrubber, but over time the situation grew out of control because I couldn't
> reach all the little nooks and crannies and the tank was starting to look
> really grimy. So, about 3 weeks ago I decided to put a single snail in the
> tank to eat. What a job he did too!
>
> I know that many people have problems with snails breeding and taking over
> the tank, so me, thinking I was very clever, only got one snail, hoping to
> deny him the pleasure of finding a mate. Now my friend informs me that
> snails have both male and female parts and can still reproduce. Is this
> true? Please say no because he is such a good cleaner and I don't want to
> get rid of him (or her, or both I guess)!

What sort of snail is it?

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[David McDermott]

Thanks for the info! I don't think I will get rid of mr. snail unless I see
some baby snails. If it does reproduce I will at least have learned a
lesson! You would think the pet store guy would have warned me if this was
a real concern, although I suppose I would be foolish to rely on that.

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> David McDermott wrote:
>> I have finally decided to tackle my aquarium's algae problem. For many
>> months now I have simply bit the bullet and scrubbed my tank with a algae
>> scrubber, but over time the situation grew out of control because I
>> couldn't reach all the little nooks and crannies and the tank was
>> starting to look really grimy. So, about 3 weeks ago I decided to put a
>> single snail in the tank to eat. What a job he did too!
>>
>> I know that many people have problems with snails breeding and taking
>> over the tank, so me, thinking I was very clever, only got one snail,
>> hoping to deny him the pleasure of finding a mate. Now my friend informs
>> me that snails have both male and female parts and can still reproduce.
>> Is this true? Please say no because he is such a good cleaner and I
>> don't want to get rid of him (or her, or both I guess)!
>
> I believe that they are hermaphrodites...but don't think that they can
> impregnate themselves....from what I remember snails breed by firing
> "love-darts" at another snail which stimulates the correct hormone for
> breeding - at least land snails do...you might need to google for the type
> of snail that you have
>
> If he/she/it is doing a good job on the algae and you are happy I wouldn't
> worry about it until you start notice more of them on the glass
>
> Gill

[David McDermott]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. net...
> David McDermott wrote:
>> I have finally decided to tackle my aquarium's algae problem. For many
>> months now I have simply bit the bullet and scrubbed my tank with a algae
>> scrubber, but over time the situation grew out of control because I
>> couldn't reach all the little nooks and crannies and the tank was
>> starting to look really grimy. So, about 3 weeks ago I decided to put a
>> single snail in the tank to eat. What a job he did too!
>>
>> I know that many people have problems with snails breeding and taking
>> over the tank, so me, thinking I was very clever, only got one snail,
>> hoping to deny him the pleasure of finding a mate. Now my friend informs
>> me that snails have both male and female parts and can still reproduce.
>> Is this true? Please say no because he is such a good cleaner and I
>> don't want to get rid of him (or her, or both I guess)!
>
> What sort of snail is it?
>
> --
> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

That's part of the problem. In my haste and naivety I didn't even think to
ask. Assuming it didn't make much difference, I just told the pet store guy
"I need a snail that eats algae" and he said "here ya go" or something like
that. Are some species self reproducing and some not? That would certainly
be helpful for future reference.

[Charles]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:36:53 GMT, "David McDermott"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Altum" > wrote in message
. net...
>> David McDermott wrote:
>>> I have finally decided to tackle my aquarium's algae problem. For many
>>> months now I have simply bit the bullet and scrubbed my tank with a algae
>>> scrubber, but over time the situation grew out of control because I
>>> couldn't reach all the little nooks and crannies and the tank was
>>> starting to look really grimy. So, about 3 weeks ago I decided to put a
>>> single snail in the tank to eat. What a job he did too!
>>>
>>> I know that many people have problems with snails breeding and taking
>>> over the tank, so me, thinking I was very clever, only got one snail,
>>> hoping to deny him the pleasure of finding a mate. Now my friend informs
>>> me that snails have both male and female parts and can still reproduce.
>>> Is this true? Please say no because he is such a good cleaner and I
>>> don't want to get rid of him (or her, or both I guess)!
>>
>> What sort of snail is it?
>>
>> --
>> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
>> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>That's part of the problem. In my haste and naivety I didn't even think to
>ask. Assuming it didn't make much difference, I just told the pet store guy
>"I need a snail that eats algae" and he said "here ya go" or something like
>that. Are some species self reproducing and some not? That would certainly
>be helpful for future reference.
>


Try googling for ramshorn snail and for apple snail, those are the two
you would most likely be given.

As far as I know, what Gill told you is correct, except that there are
a few snails that have separate male and female genders, most are
hermaphroditic. The problem with just one is that it may have been
darted already and be developing eggs.

People complain about snails, but learn to live with them.

[Altum]

David McDermott wrote:
> "Altum" > wrote in message

> That's part of the problem. In my haste and naivety I didn't even think to
> ask. Assuming it didn't make much difference, I just told the pet store guy
> "I need a snail that eats algae" and he said "here ya go" or something like
> that. Are some species self reproducing and some not? That would certainly
> be helpful for future reference.

It's probably a mystery/apple snail. That's the most common snail in
pet shops. Check http://applesnail.net for pictures and info. They
have separate sexes and lay their eggs above the water line in big
clusters. Don't worry about it reproducing.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:36:20 GMT, "David McDermott"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the info! I don't think I will get rid of mr. snail unless I see
>some baby snails. If it does reproduce I will at least have learned a
>lesson! You would think the pet store guy would have warned me if this was
>a real concern, although I suppose I would be foolish to rely on that.

Not all snails are able to reproduce without a partner, though at
least one common species can and does do this. I don't see why you are
worried about having more than one snail in your tank. Especially if
there is plenty of algae to eat. When your algae has been removed by
your snail(s), it will come right back if you remove the snails
because you've done nothing to prevent the regrowth of the algae.
Which is OK if you have active snails or algae eating fish to keep up
with the supply.

We aquarists have a tendency to enjoy beating up on pet shop workers,
when something goes wrong we like to blame someone for not warning us
ahead of time. As fishkeepers, we have a responsibility to learn all
we can about our pets, and with the internet available to almost
everyone, there is no excuse for not looking up information on every
living creature we add to our tanks.

I think I will declare this to be "Be Kind To Pet Shop Guys" week.
Until, of course, the next one ****es me off.

For Killfile FAQs visit
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm

[MEAlston]

ROTFLOL

[Gill Passman]

MEAlston wrote:
> ROTFLOL
>
>
Is this an emotional response to a snail problem???

[Mister Gardener]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:35:10 GMT, "David McDermott"
> wrote:

>
>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:36:20 GMT, "David McDermott"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks for the info! I don't think I will get rid of mr. snail unless I
>>>see
>>>some baby snails. If it does reproduce I will at least have learned a
>>>lesson! You would think the pet store guy would have warned me if this
>>>was
>>>a real concern, although I suppose I would be foolish to rely on that.
>>
>> Not all snails are able to reproduce without a partner, though at
>> least one common species can and does do this. I don't see why you are
>> worried about having more than one snail in your tank. Especially if
>> there is plenty of algae to eat. When your algae has been removed by
>> your snail(s), it will come right back if you remove the snails
>> because you've done nothing to prevent the regrowth of the algae.
>> Which is OK if you have active snails or algae eating fish to keep up
>> with the supply.
>>
>> We aquarists have a tendency to enjoy beating up on pet shop workers,
>> when something goes wrong we like to blame someone for not warning us
>> ahead of time. As fishkeepers, we have a responsibility to learn all
>> we can about our pets, and with the internet available to almost
>> everyone, there is no excuse for not looking up information on every
>> living creature we add to our tanks.
>>
>> I think I will declare this to be "Be Kind To Pet Shop Guys" week.
>> Until, of course, the next one ****es me off.
>>
>> For Killfile FAQs visit
>> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
>
>The reason I don't want to have more than one snail is that I have heard of
>many people losing control of their snail population and having their tanks
>overrun. My one snail is able to keep up with the algae so I have no need
>or desire for more. Incidentally, what do you recommend to prevent algae
>growth? I realize that the snail is really just treating the symptom and
>not identifying the problem. I have just started a new tank and would like
>to avoid the problem in the first place if I can.
>
>And for the record I am nice to the pet store guys, as they have done me
>well over the years. But I must say that I find the best way to get
>information is via the internet and not by badgering the store clerk, that
>way there is no time pressure. The downfall of my snail situation is that
>it was an impulse purchase - I was in there just checking out stuff, killing
>time one day and I thought "hey I read somewhere that snails eat algae -
>better buy one!" having not done any research. I didn't even think of the
>reproduction problem and hence didn't ask about it. I guess it's not his
>problem nor is it his duty to inform me about every possible pitfall that
>might come up. I asked for a snail and I got one, and he did just what the
>pet store guy said he would.
>
Yup. You asked for a snail and you got one. By the way, I can't do
that in my state - it is illegal to sell snails here. But sadly, there
are no snail cops to pick off all those pond snails and ramshorns and
other assorted little snails that hitch hike into the state on the
backs of plants. The Governor says there isn't enough money in the
budget this year. If you are just starting a new tank, start with as
many live plants as you can afford. As your aquarium matures, there
will be food for plants. Algae will be competing with your higher
order plants for the nutrients, so the more fast growing plants you
have going, the less nutrients left over for the algae. Hornwort,
water sprite, elodea, java moss are just a few plants that suck up
those nutrients. Your regular weekly water charges will also help,
along with gravel vacuuming at each change. Good lighting is important
for the plants - fluorescent or compact fluorescent are the most
commonly used, aim for around 1.5 to 2 watts of light per gallon of
water. Higher wattages are available, and in fact many people use
them, but with the increased lighting comes increased demand for
specific plant fertilizers and carbon dioxide. The 1.5-2 watt setup
will work well for most popular plants, swords, crypts, cabomba, the
list goes on and on. Put your lights on a timer, catch them on sale
for 5 bucks or so at a hardware or home supply store. 12 hours on and
12 off is a good place to start. Using a timer with plants is not just
a convenience, it's beneficial to the plants who are accustomed to the
sun rising and setting and the same time every day. Like us animals,
plants also have a biorhythm. Make certain that no sunlight directly
hits your tank at any time of the day or night. Check out this link
for some discussions on Algae. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/

-- Mister Gardener

[Nikki]

"Charles" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:36:53 GMT, "David McDermott"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Altum" > wrote in message
. net...
>>> David McDermott wrote:
>>>> I have finally decided to tackle my aquarium's algae problem. For many
>>>> months now I have simply bit the bullet and scrubbed my tank with a
>>>> algae
>>>> scrubber, but over time the situation grew out of control because I
>>>> couldn't reach all the little nooks and crannies and the tank was
>>>> starting to look really grimy. So, about 3 weeks ago I decided to put
>>>> a
>>>> single snail in the tank to eat. What a job he did too!
>>>>
>>>> I know that many people have problems with snails breeding and taking
>>>> over the tank, so me, thinking I was very clever, only got one snail,
>>>> hoping to deny him the pleasure of finding a mate. Now my friend
>>>> informs
>>>> me that snails have both male and female parts and can still reproduce.
>>>> Is this true? Please say no because he is such a good cleaner and I
>>>> don't want to get rid of him (or her, or both I guess)!
>>>
>>> What sort of snail is it?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
>>> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com
>>
>>That's part of the problem. In my haste and naivety I didn't even think
>>to
>>ask. Assuming it didn't make much difference, I just told the pet store
>>guy
>>"I need a snail that eats algae" and he said "here ya go" or something
>>like
>>that. Are some species self reproducing and some not? That would
>>certainly
>>be helpful for future reference.
>>
>
>
> Try googling for ramshorn snail and for apple snail, those are the two
> you would most likely be given.
>
> As far as I know, what Gill told you is correct, except that there are
> a few snails that have separate male and female genders, most are
> hermaphroditic. The problem with just one is that it may have been
> darted already and be developing eggs.
>
> People complain about snails, but learn to live with them.


http://applesnail.net/
nik

[Mister Gardener]

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 00:15:14 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

>MEAlston wrote:
>> ROTFLOL
>>
>>
>Is this an emotional response to a snail problem???

I dunno. Maybe he'll let us in on the joke when he gets off the floor.

OT - For those in the Red Sox Nation: Manny finally hit a home run!
-- Mister Gardener

[David McDermott]

I think my algae problem must stem from my lighting. I turn it on in the
morning before I leave for work at 7 am, and it remains on until I go to bed
at 10 - 10:30 at night. I know that 8 - 12 is usually ideal for light so I
guess I ought to get a timer. I'm sure all that light encourages the algae
growth. Also, the tank will get about an hour of direct sunlight per day in
the spring/summer and there's not much I can do about it at the moment given
the layout of my house. The snail has done wonders for me though. The tank
is clean and my water chemistry is great. I suppose having a tank prone to
algae growth will keep mr. snail happy. Incidentally, after visiting some
of the websites referred to me in this thread, I believe that my particular
snail is not capable of reproducing without a mate. It's been over a month
since I got him and there are no eggs in sight so I don't believe he (she?)
was fertilized at the pet store.
"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:35:10 GMT, "David McDermott"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:36:20 GMT, "David McDermott"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Thanks for the info! I don't think I will get rid of mr. snail unless I
>>>>see
>>>>some baby snails. If it does reproduce I will at least have learned a
>>>>lesson! You would think the pet store guy would have warned me if this
>>>>was
>>>>a real concern, although I suppose I would be foolish to rely on that.
>>>
>>> Not all snails are able to reproduce without a partner, though at
>>> least one common species can and does do this. I don't see why you are
>>> worried about having more than one snail in your tank. Especially if
>>> there is plenty of algae to eat. When your algae has been removed by
>>> your snail(s), it will come right back if you remove the snails
>>> because you've done nothing to prevent the regrowth of the algae.
>>> Which is OK if you have active snails or algae eating fish to keep up
>>> with the supply.
>>>
>>> We aquarists have a tendency to enjoy beating up on pet shop workers,
>>> when something goes wrong we like to blame someone for not warning us
>>> ahead of time. As fishkeepers, we have a responsibility to learn all
>>> we can about our pets, and with the internet available to almost
>>> everyone, there is no excuse for not looking up information on every
>>> living creature we add to our tanks.
>>>
>>> I think I will declare this to be "Be Kind To Pet Shop Guys" week.
>>> Until, of course, the next one ****es me off.
>>>
>>> For Killfile FAQs visit
>>> http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
>>
>>The reason I don't want to have more than one snail is that I have heard
>>of
>>many people losing control of their snail population and having their
>>tanks
>>overrun. My one snail is able to keep up with the algae so I have no need
>>or desire for more. Incidentally, what do you recommend to prevent algae
>>growth? I realize that the snail is really just treating the symptom and
>>not identifying the problem. I have just started a new tank and would
>>like
>>to avoid the problem in the first place if I can.
>>
>>And for the record I am nice to the pet store guys, as they have done me
>>well over the years. But I must say that I find the best way to get
>>information is via the internet and not by badgering the store clerk, that
>>way there is no time pressure. The downfall of my snail situation is that
>>it was an impulse purchase - I was in there just checking out stuff,
>>killing
>>time one day and I thought "hey I read somewhere that snails eat algae -
>>better buy one!" having not done any research. I didn't even think of the
>>reproduction problem and hence didn't ask about it. I guess it's not his
>>problem nor is it his duty to inform me about every possible pitfall that
>>might come up. I asked for a snail and I got one, and he did just what
>>the
>>pet store guy said he would.
>>
> Yup. You asked for a snail and you got one. By the way, I can't do
> that in my state - it is illegal to sell snails here. But sadly, there
> are no snail cops to pick off all those pond snails and ramshorns and
> other assorted little snails that hitch hike into the state on the
> backs of plants. The Governor says there isn't enough money in the
> budget this year. If you are just starting a new tank, start with as
> many live plants as you can afford. As your aquarium matures, there
> will be food for plants. Algae will be competing with your higher
> order plants for the nutrients, so the more fast growing plants you
> have going, the less nutrients left over for the algae. Hornwort,
> water sprite, elodea, java moss are just a few plants that suck up
> those nutrients. Your regular weekly water charges will also help,
> along with gravel vacuuming at each change. Good lighting is important
> for the plants - fluorescent or compact fluorescent are the most
> commonly used, aim for around 1.5 to 2 watts of light per gallon of
> water. Higher wattages are available, and in fact many people use
> them, but with the increased lighting comes increased demand for
> specific plant fertilizers and carbon dioxide. The 1.5-2 watt setup
> will work well for most popular plants, swords, crypts, cabomba, the
> list goes on and on. Put your lights on a timer, catch them on sale
> for 5 bucks or so at a hardware or home supply store. 12 hours on and
> 12 off is a good place to start. Using a timer with plants is not just
> a convenience, it's beneficial to the plants who are accustomed to the
> sun rising and setting and the same time every day. Like us animals,
> plants also have a biorhythm. Make certain that no sunlight directly
> hits your tank at any time of the day or night. Check out this link
> for some discussions on Algae. http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/
>
> -- Mister Gardener

[Mister Gardener]

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:47:05 GMT, "David McDermott"
> wrote:

>I think my algae problem must stem from my lighting. I turn it on in the
>morning before I leave for work at 7 am, and it remains on until I go to bed
>at 10 - 10:30 at night. I know that 8 - 12 is usually ideal for light so I
>guess I ought to get a timer. I'm sure all that light encourages the algae
>growth. Also, the tank will get about an hour of direct sunlight per day in
>the spring/summer and there's not much I can do about it at the moment given
>the layout of my house. The snail has done wonders for me though. The tank
>is clean and my water chemistry is great. I suppose having a tank prone to
>algae growth will keep mr. snail happy. Incidentally, after visiting some
>of the websites referred to me in this thread, I believe that my particular
>snail is not capable of reproducing without a mate. It's been over a month
>since I got him and there are no eggs in sight so I don't believe he (she?)
>was fertilized at the pet store.

A five dollar timer is a most excellent investment. And keep looking
at the times of direct sunlight hitting your tank, it could make a big
difference if you could simply pull a curtain or shade - or cover one
end of your tank for a couple of hours - I know, it's a hassle. When
you get your timer, begin at around 10 hours a day. Maybe the sunlight
won't have such a "overdose" effect if it's only for a couple of hours
a day. Maybe. A small maybe. But a maybe.

-- Mister Gardener

[Koi-Lo]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> MEAlston wrote:
>> ROTFLOL
>>
>>
> Is this an emotional response to a snail problem???
=====================
I explained to him how to INCLUDE the message he's replying to in EO but he
hasn't done it yet. In my NR, also OE, I have no idea who his replies are
directed to........
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[MEAlston]

Well, I can tell ya that trying to keep the functions straight between
Opera, Thunderbird and Outlook..its enough for my plate. Thank You!! :-/

[Koi-Lo]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I can tell ya that trying to keep the functions straight between
> Opera, Thunderbird and Outlook..its enough for my plate. Thank You!! :-/
===============================
Just curious but why are you using 3 different NRs? That would confuse
anyone I would think. When you don't include the message you're replying
to, some of us have no way to know who that person is. I'm not complaining,
I just wanted you to know it can cause some confusion.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[MEAlston]

I employ Opera's browser when I visit KNOWN safe internet sites (its faily
secure..far more than IE).it's integrated news reader and email services are
always on-hand. Outlook seems simple enough..and Thunderbird is one I play
with from time to time, getting the feel of it, so to speak. My main
browser is Mozilla's FireFox. It stops the hackers cold..no matter what
they sling your way. And since I'm in Firefox, I'll go to Google's
newsgroups and check this group from time to time.

Remember...I'm a full-fledged newbie with the news group thing. Heard they
always invited malware into your system. So, between BitDefender Nine..the
NAT router's firewall on stout settings, and the application firewall, I
haven't encountered a problem, (err,..umm) thus far !! -ED

[Koi-Lo]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
>I employ Opera's browser when I visit KNOWN safe internet sites (its faily
> secure..far more than IE).it's integrated news reader and email services
> are
> always on-hand.

I never tried Opera. I did have Firefox for awhile but never got
comfortable with it. I have the free ZoneAlarm to help keep hackers out and
all MS's updates for IE. I also have the free AVG anti-virus software plus
a few other PC prophylactics. E-mail is where most nasty things come in
from. I have AVG scan all incoming mail and I'm very careful who I give my
e-mail address to.

Outlook seems simple enough..and Thunderbird is one I play
> with from time to time, getting the feel of it, so to speak. My main
> browser is Mozilla's FireFox. It stops the hackers cold..no matter what
> they sling your way. And since I'm in Firefox, I'll go to Google's
> newsgroups and check this group from time to time.

I truly hate Google's NGs. It's such a pain to read and post through them
compared to OE6. If your ISP doesn't provide a free Newsserver there are
some free ones out there. Mine are free.

> Remember...I'm a full-fledged newbie with the news group thing. Heard
> they
> always invited malware into your system.

I don't believe that's at all true. All you're downloading is text. Your
anti-virus software would or should catch anything that tries to sneak onto
your PC. I've been online 10 years and never had a problem with Usenet
(Newsgroups).

So, between BitDefender Nine..the
> NAT router's firewall on stout settings, and the application firewall, I
> haven't encountered a problem, (err,..umm) thus far !! -ED

And you probably wont,... but you need a regular NSP so you can dump Google.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>