Lighting

[John Allen]

I have a choice

2 x 38watt t8 flourescent tubes, or
3x 54watt t5 luminaire

Which would people use for a 240litre tank mainly for plants ?

Thanks

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
John Allen > wrote:
>I have a choice
>
>2 x 38watt t8 flourescent tubes, or
>3x 54watt t5 luminaire

For economy the T8's.

For performance the T5's.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Altum]

Richard Sexton wrote:
> In article >,
> John Allen > wrote:
>> I have a choice
>>
>> 2 x 38watt t8 flourescent tubes, or
>> 3x 54watt t5 luminaire
>
> For economy the T8's.
>
> For performance the T5's.

I'd go for T5. 2 x 38 watt tubes is not enough for high light plants
unless it's supplemented by some natural light.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[John Allen]

Thanks for the replies. One other thing though should I add an undergravel
heating cable along with the t5's.


Thanks
"Altum" > wrote in message
. net...
> Richard Sexton wrote:
>> In article >,
>> John Allen > wrote:
>>> I have a choice
>>>
>>> 2 x 38watt t8 flourescent tubes, or
>>> 3x 54watt t5 luminaire
>>
>> For economy the T8's.
>>
>> For performance the T5's.
>
> I'd go for T5. 2 x 38 watt tubes is not enough for high light plants
> unless it's supplemented by some natural light.
>
> --
> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Limnophile]

"John Allen" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the replies. One other thing though should I add an undergravel
> heating cable along with the t5's.
>
An undergravel heating cable should improve the growth of your plants, but
it's an extra expense. If cost isn't a problem, go for it.

For more plant advice, rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants is good.

Please let us know how it turns out;
Limnophile

[Altum]

Limnophile wrote:
> "John Allen" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Thanks for the replies. One other thing though should I add an undergravel
>> heating cable along with the t5's.
>>
> An undergravel heating cable should improve the growth of your plants, but
> it's an extra expense. If cost isn't a problem, go for it.
>
> For more plant advice, rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants is good.
>
> Please let us know how it turns out;
> Limnophile
>
Undergravel heating isn't as popular as it was 10 years ago. People who
have tried it say it doesn't make much difference. I would spend money
on a good laterite substrate instead.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Limnophile]

"Altum" > wrote in message
m...
> Limnophile wrote:
>> An undergravel heating cable should improve the growth of your plants,
>> but it's an extra expense. If cost isn't a problem, go for it.
>>
>> For more plant advice, rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants is good.
>>
>> Please let us know how it turns out;
>> Limnophile
>>
> Undergravel heating isn't as popular as it was 10 years ago. People who
> have tried it say it doesn't make much difference. I would spend money on
> a good laterite substrate instead.
>
> --
People have a variety of opinions on undergravel heating cables. I've seen a
few planted tanks with the undergravel heating cables, and the plants were
very lush and beautiful. On the other hand, they may have done just as well
without the cables. The theory is that heating the bottom of the tank causes
more water flow through the plant roots, increasing the amount of nutrients
available. Does anyone here have results from any experiments to support
whether it improves growth or not ?

I do strongly agree with using laterite though, my tanks have vastly
improved since I began adding laterite to the substrate.

Your mileage may vary;
Limnophile

[Altum]

Limnophile wrote:
> "Altum" > wrote in message
>>
>> Undergravel heating isn't as popular as it was 10 years ago. People who
>> have tried it say it doesn't make much difference. I would spend money on
>> a good laterite substrate instead.
>>
>> --
> People have a variety of opinions on undergravel heating cables. I've seen a
> few planted tanks with the undergravel heating cables, and the plants were
> very lush and beautiful. On the other hand, they may have done just as well
> without the cables. The theory is that heating the bottom of the tank causes
> more water flow through the plant roots, increasing the amount of nutrients
> available. Does anyone here have results from any experiments to support
> whether it improves growth or not ?

Horst and Kipper did the experiments and found improvement. They talk
about it in the Optimum Aquarium. Tom Barr (a well-trained plant
physiologist) has done carefully controlled experiments and says he
found no differences. George booth found differences but only after a
few years. Plant growth slowed some in his non-heated tanks. Diana
Walstad addresses them in her book but I'm waiting my turn to borrow a
copy to read. Have you seen anything from Amano on cables? I know his
ADA line doesn't manufacture them.

The cables certainly won't harm a tank.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:51:12 GMT, Altum >
wrote:

>Limnophile wrote:
>> "Altum" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> Undergravel heating isn't as popular as it was 10 years ago. People who
>>> have tried it say it doesn't make much difference. I would spend money on
>>> a good laterite substrate instead.
>>>
>>> --
>> People have a variety of opinions on undergravel heating cables. I've seen a
>> few planted tanks with the undergravel heating cables, and the plants were
>> very lush and beautiful. On the other hand, they may have done just as well
>> without the cables. The theory is that heating the bottom of the tank causes
>> more water flow through the plant roots, increasing the amount of nutrients
>> available. Does anyone here have results from any experiments to support
>> whether it improves growth or not ?
>
>Horst and Kipper did the experiments and found improvement. They talk
>about it in the Optimum Aquarium. Tom Barr (a well-trained plant
>physiologist) has done carefully controlled experiments and says he
>found no differences. George booth found differences but only after a
>few years. Plant growth slowed some in his non-heated tanks. Diana
>Walstad addresses them in her book but I'm waiting my turn to borrow a
>copy to read. Have you seen anything from Amano on cables? I know his
>ADA line doesn't manufacture them.
>
>The cables certainly won't harm a tank.

Every time I plan a new "big" tank, I consider undergravel heating
cables. My pocketbook usually makes the decision for me, but there
have been times, like my current plant tank, when I saved for a year
and vowed to spend whatever I needed, but I still didn't go with
cables. (At Christmas 2004 I announced that for Christmas 2005 I would
get my dream aquarium.) The theory behind the continuous convection
currents of heated water rising through the gravel makes sense, but I
always come back home to: The strongest convection currents that can
be produced are going to be immediately destroyed by all of the other
currents going on from my one or two power or canister filters as well
as simple fish motion and the not so easy to measure currents created
along all 4 glass walls with the 15 or 20 degree difference between
the room air and the water temperature. I've placed regular back ache
type heat pads under tanks on top of beadboard in the past, waterbed
heat mats are much better for this because they can be
thermostatically controlled over a wide range of temperatures. I
honestly thing that the best bang for my buck has come in the
investment and time devoted to a healthy clay based substrate and
conscientious feeding and maintenance, (pruning, snipping and
replanting tops of stem plants, etc.). I've always placed my tank
heater horizontally about an inch above the gravel, that simple
placement provides a bottom to top convection wave of sorts. In my
current large planted tank, I am using a heater inline in my filter,
so the heater near the substrate may have been as useful/less as under
gravel or under tank heating. A waterbed heat pad runs around $60,
last time I checked, and is pretty close to the size of the bottom of
a 55 gallon tank. I use one to start my seedlings for my gardens in
the spring. It is from one of the old waterbeds that I have since
gotten rid of. I only wish I had saved the heaters from the other
three water beds we got rid of.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:16:48 -0700, Larry Blanchard
> wrote:

>Mister Gardener wrote:
>
>> I've always placed my tank
>> heater horizontally about an inch above the gravel, that simple
>> placement provides a bottom to top convection wave of sorts
>
>That brings up a question. I always see heaters on the back wall of a
>tank. Is there any reason they can't go on an end wall?
>
>I'm planning on a rotating powerhead at the left corner of the back wall
>and a stealth heater on the right end wall. This should give me plenty
>of circulation past the heater.
>
>The way the tank is going to be situated in the living room, the end
>placement of the heater is the best way of hiding it with the fewest
>plants. Now I just have to find the least conspicuous (and most
>readable) spot for the thermometer :-).
>
>BTW, I got some more cork to experiment with. I should have some
>reportable results in another month or two.

Go for it. Think outside of the rectangular box. With submersible
heaters and various lengths, you can put it anywhere you like. Create
some interesting flow patterns. I've been pleased with the I forget
who makes it but it's at Foster and Smith stainless steel heater with
the outboard controller. With a little temp sensor size of a dime that
can suction cup anywhere you want it. The cables for the sensor and
the controller/thermostat are quite long, so there are many options
for placement. Less than 20 bucks. I'm also test driving one of the
digital thermometers, 5 bucks, also at F&S. Not a cheapo stick on.
Small temp probe same deal as the heater, and the little LCD display
box outside the tank, mines mounted on part of the wooden stand that
holds the tank. In a location that I can see it whenever I pass
through the room. Seems quite accurate. I'm about to pick up a couple
more for my other tanks. I've always felt limited in filter placement,
I think my filter would be much more effective hanging off the end of
the tank instead of the back, more of a river effect in circulation.
I'll probably do that one of these days, but I'll have to do some
custom light and hood arrangement. For now, I'm just happy that I've
got everything growing and living inside the proverbial box. I'll save
the custom work for something do in my old age. After I catch up with
NetMax.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

[Larry Blanchard]

Mister Gardener wrote:

> I've always placed my tank
> heater horizontally about an inch above the gravel, that simple
> placement provides a bottom to top convection wave of sorts

That brings up a question. I always see heaters on the back wall of a
tank. Is there any reason they can't go on an end wall?

I'm planning on a rotating powerhead at the left corner of the back wall
and a stealth heater on the right end wall. This should give me plenty
of circulation past the heater.

The way the tank is going to be situated in the living room, the end
placement of the heater is the best way of hiding it with the fewest
plants. Now I just have to find the least conspicuous (and most
readable) spot for the thermometer :-).

BTW, I got some more cork to experiment with. I should have some
reportable results in another month or two.


--
It's turtles, all the way down

[[email protected]]

Larry Blanchard wrote:
> Mister Gardener wrote:
>
>
>> I've always placed my tank
>>heater horizontally about an inch above the gravel, that simple
>>placement provides a bottom to top convection wave of sorts
>
>
> That brings up a question. I always see heaters on the back wall of a
> tank. Is there any reason they can't go on an end wall?
>
> I'm planning on a rotating powerhead at the left corner of the back wall
> and a stealth heater on the right end wall. This should give me plenty
> of circulation past the heater.
>
> The way the tank is going to be situated in the living room, the end
> placement of the heater is the best way of hiding it with the fewest
> plants. Now I just have to find the least conspicuous (and most
> readable) spot for the thermometer :-).
>
> BTW, I got some more cork to experiment with. I should have some
> reportable results in another month or two.
>
>

I always put my heaters near the intake of my filters so they will
circulate the warm water...seems to help keep the temp more even...

i set up my filters on my 75 gallon with PVC pipe. i basically plumbed
the back of the tank so it would have a low wall profile. i think im
down to 2" from the wall.

i run twin magnum 350's and just run the return back up into the tank
with a pvc 90* elbow on the end. i can rotate the elbow to change the
flow direction in my tank. the nice thing is with enough teflon tape the
stock strainers from the magnums will seal in a 1/2" pvc pipe.

at the other end i just used hose barbs and plumbed the final 18" with
the hose that came with the filters.

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:22:27 -0400, "
> wrote:

>I always put my heaters near the intake of my filters so they will
>circulate the warm water...seems to help keep the temp more even...

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. There is something to be said for
allowing uneven heating, allowing a difference of a degree or two in
different regions of the tank. Like in nature. Though there's probably
not enough to make much difference in a well filtered 55 - maybe in
much larger tanks.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me