Please Help

[Dave W.]

As a followup to my previous post, thinking it was possibly PH shock, I
put a couple of my mollies in the new tank (since they like alkaline
water and are used to my water and they turned whitish and started to
die within an hour. Everything in the tank is new. Any thoughts? An
artifical plant, the air bubbler, the gravel? I am very bummed out and
baffled. Some sort of toxic thing, I would think, since I know of no
disease that works that fast.

[Altum]

Dave W. wrote:
> As a followup to my previous post, thinking it was possibly PH shock, I
> put a couple of my mollies in the new tank (since they like alkaline
> water and are used to my water and they turned whitish and started to
> die within an hour. Everything in the tank is new. Any thoughts? An
> artifical plant, the air bubbler, the gravel? I am very bummed out and
> baffled. Some sort of toxic thing, I would think, since I know of no
> disease that works that fast.

That's awful! Poor little guys. It's definitely toxicity. If you had
municipal water I'd swear it was chlorine or chloramine.

Nevermind all the testing - I didn't realize you have other fish tanks
with your well water. There is clearly something toxic in the tank. I
would break down the tank and clean everything, being grateful that it's
not a 70 gallon tank. ;-) Throw away any activated carbon or zeolites
that could have adsorbed the toxin. Scrub or soak everything including
all filter parts and the inside of the tank with vinegar to help
remove...whatever it is. Then rinse with lots and lots of clean water.

If the gravel is anything other than fish-safe epoxy coated aquarium
gravel, leave it out of the tank for the moment. Plastic decorations
like plants from a fish store are fine, but leave out any "found" objects.

Do you have enough tanks to scavenge tank water to fill the new tank?
It is possible that something has changed in your water that makes it
less suitable for fish. It might be OK as a 25% water change in an
established tank, but too stressful for fish at 100%.

Once the tank is full (preferably with 2/3 water from other tanks), put
the best active carbon you can find in the filter and let the tank run
for 24 hours. Try again with one small fish and be ready to rescue him
if he shows any signs of distress.

Maybe someone has something else to add to this...

--
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[MEAlston]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
> Dave W. wrote:
> > As a followup to my previous post, thinking it was possibly PH shock, I

>
> That's awful! Poor little guys. It's definitely toxicity. If you had
> municipal water I'd swear it was chlorine or chloramine.
>
> Nevermind all the testing - I didn't realize you have other fish tanks
> with your well water. There is clearly something toxic in the tank. I
> would break down the tank and clean everything, being grateful that it's
> not a 70 gallon tank. ;-) Throw away any activated carbon or zeolites
> that could have adsorbed the toxin. Scrub or soak everything including
> all filter parts and the inside of the tank with vinegar to help
> remove...whatever it is. Then rinse with lots and lots of clean water.

*Unless the water has become the culprit !!..in which case.......


> Maybe someone has something else to add to this...
>
> --
> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[MEAlston]

MEAlston wrote:
> "Altum" > wrote in message
> . com...
>> Dave W. wrote:
>>> As a followup to my previous post, thinking it was possibly PH shock, I
>
>> That's awful! Poor little guys. It's definitely toxicity. If you had
>> municipal water I'd swear it was chlorine or chloramine.
>>
>> Nevermind all the testing - I didn't realize you have other fish tanks
>> with your well water. There is clearly something toxic in the tank. I
>> would break down the tank and clean everything, being grateful that it's
>> not a 70 gallon tank. ;-) Throw away any activated carbon or zeolites
>> that could have adsorbed the toxin. Scrub or soak everything including
>> all filter parts and the inside of the tank with vinegar to help
>> remove...whatever it is. Then rinse with lots and lots of clean water.
>
> *Unless the water has become the culprit !!..in which case.......
>
>
>> Maybe someone has something else to add to this...
>>
>> --
>> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
>> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com
>
>
One other note...boil the gravel for a good 15 minutes should you decide
to use it again =/

[Altum]

MEAlston wrote:
> "Altum" > wrote in message
> . com...
>> Dave W. wrote:
>>> As a followup to my previous post, thinking it was possibly PH shock, I
>
>> That's awful! Poor little guys. It's definitely toxicity. If you had
>> municipal water I'd swear it was chlorine or chloramine.
>>
>> Nevermind all the testing - I didn't realize you have other fish tanks
>> with your well water. There is clearly something toxic in the tank. I
>> would break down the tank and clean everything, being grateful that it's
>> not a 70 gallon tank. ;-) Throw away any activated carbon or zeolites
>> that could have adsorbed the toxin. Scrub or soak everything including
>> all filter parts and the inside of the tank with vinegar to help
>> remove...whatever it is. Then rinse with lots and lots of clean water.
>
> *Unless the water has become the culprit !!..in which case.......

Yeah. That's why I'm thinking it would be better to refill with water
from the other tanks. If the water is so toxic that even residue from
rinsing poisons fish, it's probably not safe to drink.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[MEAlston]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
> MEAlston wrote:
> > "Altum" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> >> Dave W. wrote:
> >>> As a followup to my previous post, thinking it was possibly PH shock,
I
> >
> >> That's awful! Poor little guys. It's definitely toxicity. If you had
> >> municipal water I'd swear it was chlorine or chloramine.
> >>
> >> Nevermind all the testing - I didn't realize you have other fish tanks
> >> with your well water. There is clearly something toxic in the tank. I
> >> would break down the tank and clean everything, being grateful that
it's
> >> not a 70 gallon tank. ;-) Throw away any activated carbon or zeolites
> >> that could have adsorbed the toxin. Scrub or soak everything including
> >> all filter parts and the inside of the tank with vinegar to help
> >> remove...whatever it is. Then rinse with lots and lots of clean water.
> >
> > *Unless the water has become the culprit !!..in which case.......
>
> Yeah. That's why I'm thinking it would be better to refill with water
> from the other tanks. If the water is so toxic that even residue from
> rinsing poisons fish, it's probably not safe to drink.
>
Now we've really shook him up!!
Keep watching this thread..someone later will add more. Altum covered your
emergencies well.> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Dick]

On 25 Apr 2006 22:43:03 -0700, "Dave W." > wrote:

>As a followup to my previous post, thinking it was possibly PH shock, I
>put a couple of my mollies in the new tank (since they like alkaline
>water and are used to my water and they turned whitish and started to
>die within an hour. Everything in the tank is new. Any thoughts? An
>artifical plant, the air bubbler, the gravel? I am very bummed out and
>baffled. Some sort of toxic thing, I would think, since I know of no
>disease that works that fast.


Could it be "Old tank syndrome" in reverse? Have your other tanks
become "hard" over years so there is a large difference between the
existing tanks and the new one? I am just wondering as I have no
experience with your problem. Years ago Netmax drew my attention to
OTS as a long term problem if new fish were added to old water.

Hard to believe the water you are using in other tanks would become so
toxic taken straight from the well.

Here is a thought, take one fish and put it into a plastic bag filled
from the well and float it in an existing tank. That would be an easy
way to test the water.

dick

[Koi-Lo]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
>>
> One other note...boil the gravel for a good 15 minutes should you decide
> to use it again =/
================
Would that remove toxic substances? I know it works for diseases .......
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Dick>
at > was heard opining:

>> Hard to believe the water you are using in other tanks would become
>> so
>> toxic taken straight from the well.
=====================
If it is I wouldn't drink from such a well or give it to other pets
until I had it professionally tested. Those tests may not be free
everywhere but it would be worth it. There may be toxic underground
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

Yea, one look at Carol and you can see what happens when you drink
contaminated water........it affects the brain big time.............
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:13:01 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Dick>
>><>at > was heard opining:
>><>
>><>>> Hard to believe the water you are using in other tanks would become
>><>>> so
>><>>> toxic taken straight from the well.
>><>=====================
>><>If it is I wouldn't drink from such a well or give it to other pets
>><>until I had it professionally tested. Those tests may not be free
>><> everywhere but it would be worth it. There may be toxic underground
>><> --
>><> Koi-Lo....
>><> Frugal ponding since 1995.
>><> Aquariums since 1952.
>><> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>><> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>><> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>><>

Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1982.
Aquariums since 1956.
Some assholes Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Frank]

Dave W. wrote,
>thinking it was possibly PH shock, I
>put a couple of my mollies in the new tank (since they like alkaline
>water and are used to my water and they turned whitish and started to
>die within an hour.......

The "p" stands for "potenz" (this means, the potential to be) and the
"H" stands for "hydrogen". Low pH means that there is a high
concentration of hydrogen ions. High pH means low concentration of
hydrogen ions. (It's the acids and alkalis that make the colors in
plants change). Nothing there for a sudden change to harm the fish. We
used to call it pH shock, but now we know it isn't the change in pH
that kills the fish, it's the sudden change of more than 20% in TDS
(total dissolved solids). This causes an osmotic pressure change - to
fast of a change will distroy gills and enable the fish to control its
body fluids (osmoregulation). Next time, get a lot more water that the
fish is in, so you have enough to acclimate the fish a *lot* more
slowly. I would get one and a half to 2 gals. of the stores water with
the fish and add a cup of my water once an hour. By adding a teaspoon
of salt per gal. the shock will be less severe. Being that your on a
well, and the pet shop isn't, it might be a good idea for you to get a
conductivity meter, which will give you a TDS reading. If you have a
hardness test kit, DOCs (dissolved organic compounds) are _not_
detected by a hardness test, but the do measure on a conductivity
meter. Both test will determine DOC by comparing the difference between
the two test. (A build-up of DOCs create conditions that encourage
disease, parasites, and opportunistic bacteria)... Well, at least now
you know you can drink your water ;-) ................ Frank

[Altum]

Koi-Lo wrote:
>
> "MEAlston" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>> One other note...boil the gravel for a good 15 minutes should you
>> decide to use it again =/
> ================
> Would that remove toxic substances? I know it works for diseases .......

Not really. I'd go for vinegar or pure ammonia (not the sudsy stuff).
They're reasonably good solvents for aqueous compounds and will rinse
clean. You can test for residual in the tank easily by testing for pH
and ammonia.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Koi-Lo]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. com...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>> Would that remove toxic substances? I know it works for diseases .......
>
> Not really. I'd go for vinegar or pure ammonia (not the sudsy stuff).
> They're reasonably good solvents for aqueous compounds and will rinse
> clean. You can test for residual in the tank easily by testing for pH and
> ammonia.
==============
Thanks for that info.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the fish and pond NGs.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:06 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:


>><>> Koi-Lo wrote:
>><>>
>><>>
>><>> I'd go for vinegar or pure ammonia the sudsy stuff).
>><>> They're reasonably good solvents for aqueous compounds and will rinse
>><>> clean. You can test for residual by testing for pH and
>><>> ammonia. Janitor in a Drum also works great for a douche as well......



Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1982.
Aquariums since 1956.
Some assholes Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

Yet another dinkleberry from Carols asshole heard from!



On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:38:09 -0700, Larry Blanchard
> wrote:
>><>Koi-Lo wrote:
>><>
>><>> *Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
>><>> But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
>><>
>><>Yeah, right. You're so stupid you think we can't read headers. Go
>><>away, stinking pond scum!

Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1982.
Aquariums since 1956.
Some assholes Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Larry Blanchard]

Koi-Lo wrote:

> *Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
> But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.

Yeah, right. You're so stupid you think we can't read headers. Go
away, stinking pond scum!


--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Dave W.]

Thanks for the advice! I did break down the tank, wiped it down with
vinegar and rinsed it thoroughly (more than once). After thoroughly
rinsing everything that was in the tank and cleaning the heater by
wiping it with vinegar and rinsing off, I set it back up and everything
seems fine. I even replaced the gravel with new stuff. I put a
couple of rosy red minnows in it last night and all is well today, so I
guess maybe it was something used on the tank while it was in the
store.

[Altum]

Dave W. wrote:
> Thanks for the advice! I did break down the tank, wiped it down with
> vinegar and rinsed it thoroughly (more than once). After thoroughly
> rinsing everything that was in the tank and cleaning the heater by
> wiping it with vinegar and rinsing off, I set it back up and everything
> seems fine. I even replaced the gravel with new stuff. I put a
> couple of rosy red minnows in it last night and all is well today, so I
> guess maybe it was something used on the tank while it was in the
> store.

Wonderful! Thanks for letting us know that things worked out.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com