sinking betta sick

[Nikki]

Till this past week Mr. red betta was fine, I noticed this week he has been
sitting in his silk tree a lot, however I moved his tank last week and he
sulks when I move him so I was not surprised...but when I went to clean his
tank today I noticed he was straight up and down, butt/tail down, head up,
seems like he is having trouble swimming, he comes to the top once and a
while and blows a bubble, then he will sink back down, he did have a bubble
next a few days ago. I see nothing on his body that is not normal, his eyes
are clear, fin/tail fine, very long, he had damage to it when I got him and
after treating him his tail grew back very long....he is not swimming
around, I feed him betta flakes, frozen brine shrimp, bloodworms once in a
while, and pea's once a week. I guess the only thing I can see that is wrong
is he is having a hard time swimming, and he is staying in a up/down
position. If anyone has any idea's they want to run by me I would appreciate
it, I am out of idea's.

Nik

[Koi-Lo]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> Till this past week Mr. red betta was fine, I noticed this week he has
> been sitting in his silk tree a lot, however I moved his tank last week
> and he sulks when I move him so I was not surprised...but when I went to
> clean his tank today I noticed he was straight up and down, butt/tail
> down, head up, seems like he is having trouble swimming, he comes to the
> top once and a while and blows a bubble, then he will sink back down, he
> did have a bubble next a few days ago. I see nothing on his body that is
> not normal, his eyes are clear, fin/tail fine, very long, he had damage to
> it when I got him and after treating him his tail grew back very
> long....he is not swimming around, I feed him betta flakes, frozen brine
> shrimp, bloodworms once in a while, and pea's once a week. I guess the
> only thing I can see that is wrong is he is having a hard time swimming,
> and he is staying in a up/down position. If anyone has any idea's they
> want to run by me I would appreciate it, I am out of idea's.
===========================
I'm so sorry to hear this but I have no advice to offer except to do an
immediate water change - a major one! Is he warm enough? He's not in the
draft from an A/C unit is he? Has anyone sprayed anything near his tank?
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's*
on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[MEAlston]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> Till this past week Mr. red betta was fine, I noticed this week he has
been
> sitting in his silk tree a lot, however I moved his tank last week and he
> sulks when I move him so I was not surprised...but when I went to clean
his
> tank today I noticed he was straight up and down, butt/tail down, head up,
> seems like he is having trouble swimming, he comes to the top once and a
> while and blows a bubble, then he will sink back down, he did have a
bubble
> next a few days ago. I see nothing on his body that is not normal, his
eyes
> are clear, fin/tail fine, very long, he had damage to it when I got him
and
> after treating him his tail grew back very long....he is not swimming
> around, I feed him betta flakes, frozen brine shrimp, bloodworms once in a
> while, and pea's once a week. I guess the only thing I can see that is
wrong
> is he is having a hard time swimming, and he is staying in a up/down
> position. If anyone has any idea's they want to run by me I would
appreciate
> it, I am out of idea's.
>
> Nik
>
Could He be 'Bottom-Heavy' with too much tail? =0

[Nikki]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Nikki" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Till this past week Mr. red betta was fine, I noticed this week he has
>> been sitting in his silk tree a lot, however I moved his tank last week
>> and he sulks when I move him so I was not surprised...but when I went to
>> clean his tank today I noticed he was straight up and down, butt/tail
>> down, head up, seems like he is having trouble swimming, he comes to the
>> top once and a while and blows a bubble, then he will sink back down, he
>> did have a bubble next a few days ago. I see nothing on his body that is
>> not normal, his eyes are clear, fin/tail fine, very long, he had damage
>> to it when I got him and after treating him his tail grew back very
>> long....he is not swimming around, I feed him betta flakes, frozen brine
>> shrimp, bloodworms once in a while, and pea's once a week. I guess the
>> only thing I can see that is wrong is he is having a hard time swimming,
>> and he is staying in a up/down position. If anyone has any idea's they
>> want to run by me I would appreciate it, I am out of idea's.
> ===========================
> I'm so sorry to hear this but I have no advice to offer except to do an
> immediate water change - a major one! Is he warm enough? He's not in the
> draft from an A/C unit is he? Has anyone sprayed anything near his tank?
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> *Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's*
> on the pond and aquaria groups.
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>
I changed his water 100% cleaned his tank, no he is not by no draft, his
tank stays about 76-78 degree's, Since my ordeal with rot when I bought him
I never feed a lot, as to keep his tank as clean as possible.
He is kept with the other five on a shelf unit (2 bettas per shelf with a
piece of cardboard between tanks) and all the others look fine, which would
rule out something getting in his tank, but there is nothing sprayed in the
house any way due to Luke being on a breathing machine. Oh this is driving
me crazy, i want to do something for him but what??? would being constipated
make him bottom heavy do you think??? One other thing, when i go over he
still comes over to me, but i was watching when he tries to stay straight in
the right fish position his top fin falls over... like he is losing his
balance ??(i wish i could explain better)

Nik

[Nikki]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Nikki" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Till this past week Mr. red betta was fine, I noticed this week he has
> been
>> sitting in his silk tree a lot, however I moved his tank last week and he
>> sulks when I move him so I was not surprised...but when I went to clean
> his
>> tank today I noticed he was straight up and down, butt/tail down, head
>> up,
>> seems like he is having trouble swimming, he comes to the top once and a
>> while and blows a bubble, then he will sink back down, he did have a
> bubble
>> next a few days ago. I see nothing on his body that is not normal, his
> eyes
>> are clear, fin/tail fine, very long, he had damage to it when I got him
> and
>> after treating him his tail grew back very long....he is not swimming
>> around, I feed him betta flakes, frozen brine shrimp, bloodworms once in
>> a
>> while, and pea's once a week. I guess the only thing I can see that is
> wrong
>> is he is having a hard time swimming, and he is staying in a up/down
>> position. If anyone has any idea's they want to run by me I would
> appreciate
>> it, I am out of idea's.
>>
>> Nik
>>
> Could He be 'Bottom-Heavy' with too much tail? =0
>
you know i thought about that but it would not of just started so i dont
think, he does have a very long tail/fin, guess i treated his rot to well,
he is very pretty..
Nik

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <MEAlston> at
> was heard opining:

>>
> Could He be 'Bottom-Heavy' with too much tail? =0
=================================
*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

I've had bettas with excessive tail growth and they still stayed horizontal.
I have seen very old bettas seem to lose their ability to stay horizontal
though. The real old one I lost a week or two back was kind of head-down
for awhile at the end. I had him over 4 yrs.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Nikki]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <MEAlston> at
> > was heard opining:
>
>>>
>> Could He be 'Bottom-Heavy' with too much tail? =0
> =================================
> *Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*
>
> I've had bettas with excessive tail growth and they still stayed
> horizontal. I have seen very old bettas seem to lose their ability to stay
> horizontal though. The real old one I lost a week or two back was kind
> of head-down for awhile at the end. I had him over 4 yrs.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Aquarium FAQ are at:
> http://faq.thekrib.com/
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
Mine is head up, tail down, i been watching he keeps trying to swim up, i am
wondering if i should lower the water even more, i have it half way now.
Nik

[MEAlston]

He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come up
for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
trimming the tail back some.

[Gill Passman]

MEAlston wrote:
> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come up
> for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
> required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
> trimming the tail back some.
>
>

I would be very suprised if this was the case and certainly would not
consider trimming his tail.....no way....

The advice to keep up the water changes is the best course until you
find out what is actually wrong with him....keep up with the peas in
case of constipation - another option is epsom salts but I've not used
these myself (although I seem to remember that you have) - adding salt
might also help....

Gill

[Nikki]

"MEAlston" > wrote in message
...
> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come
> up
> for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
> required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
> trimming the tail back some.
>
>
No, cant do that, i have only had to cut the tail of a fish once and that
was from rot on a fancy guppy who got injured then infected.
I think his tail would be fine if not for the fact something else was wrong
with him, he has been dragging it around for quite some time, with out a
problem, i was kind of half joking about it holding him down, its very long,
he is such a pretty betta, but for some reason he is just not doing good.
thanks Nik

[Nikki]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> MEAlston wrote:
>> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come
>> up
>> for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
>> required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
>> trimming the tail back some.
>>
>>
>
> I would be very suprised if this was the case and certainly would not
> consider trimming his tail.....no way....
>
> The advice to keep up the water changes is the best course until you find
> out what is actually wrong with him....keep up with the peas in case of
> constipation - another option is epsom salts but I've not used these
> myself (although I seem to remember that you have) - adding salt might
> also help....
>
> Gill

I did do a 5 minute Epsom salt dip but he was not looking to good in there,
I have him in a betta hex right now (I hate those things) but since he is
having a bit of a hard time getting to the top he will have an easier time
in this. When he pulls his self up to get air it seems like he is falling
but down back to the bottom. Tried to get him to eat some pea's he wont eat
them, he normally don't like them, pea day is Sunday and he sulks that day
because he don't like them, so I did not expect him to eat it......he is a
spoiled little fish...
Nik
thanks gill
I cant even think of what to search for on google, he don't seem to have any
other symptoms other then swimming difficulty

[Gill Passman]

Nikki wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>MEAlston wrote:
>>
>>>He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come
>>>up
>>>for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
>>>required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
>>>trimming the tail back some.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I would be very suprised if this was the case and certainly would not
>>consider trimming his tail.....no way....
>>
>>The advice to keep up the water changes is the best course until you find
>>out what is actually wrong with him....keep up with the peas in case of
>>constipation - another option is epsom salts but I've not used these
>>myself (although I seem to remember that you have) - adding salt might
>>also help....
>>
>>Gill
>
>
> I did do a 5 minute Epsom salt dip but he was not looking to good in there,
> I have him in a betta hex right now (I hate those things) but since he is
> having a bit of a hard time getting to the top he will have an easier time
> in this. When he pulls his self up to get air it seems like he is falling
> but down back to the bottom. Tried to get him to eat some pea's he wont eat
> them, he normally don't like them, pea day is Sunday and he sulks that day
> because he don't like them, so I did not expect him to eat it......he is a
> spoiled little fish...
> Nik
> thanks gill
> I cant even think of what to search for on google, he don't seem to have any
> other symptoms other then swimming difficulty
>
>

Is he showing any signs of bloat/dropsy? Boris :-( looked almost as if
he had mumps....

Gill

[Altum]

MEAlston wrote:
> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come up
> for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
> required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
> trimming the tail back some.

What?!? This is probably a swim bladder infection. Lowering the water
is a good idea if he's having trouble getting to the surface to breathe.
Do you have any antibiotic food around, Nikki?

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Koi-Lo]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
.. Oh this is driving
> me crazy, i want to do something for him but what??? would being
> constipated make him bottom heavy do you think??? One other thing, when i
> go over he still comes over to me, but i was watching when he tries to
> stay straight in the right fish position his top fin falls over... like he
> is losing his balance ??(i wish i could explain better)
===================
*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

I never had a constipated betta to my knowledge so can't say if that's the
problem or not. You could try feeding him more brine shrimp as they're
supposed to encourage bowl movement in fish - if you think that's the
problem. Does his abdomen look unusually swollen? Is it possible he's very
old? Keep us informed......
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Nikki> at
> was heard opining: Tried to get
> him to eat some pea's he wont eat them, he normally don't like them,
> pea day is Sunday and he sulks that day because he don't like them,
> so I did not expect him to eat it......he is a spoiled little fish...
===============
*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty bugs
and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Nikki]

"Altum" > wrote in message
. net...
> MEAlston wrote:
>> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come
>> up
>> for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
>> required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
>> trimming the tail back some.
>
> What?!? This is probably a swim bladder infection. Lowering the water is
> a good idea if he's having trouble getting to the surface to breathe. Do
> you have any antibiotic food around, Nikki?
>
> --
> Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
> Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

no I was thinking the same thing, but I am out of antibiotic, its the only
thing I think I don't have, I am going to try and get out tomorrow my
husband has the car and is working 72 hours a week so I'm stuck for the
moment, I had a fish before (however not a betta) with swim bladder and it
don't seem like the same thing but could be different if caused by something
else like constipation injury, so I guess it could be I guess, he has been
in the hex since this morning and I have not noticed any poop, which can
just be from not eating, but I just got him to take a bit of a pea so I will
watch him and do 1 more Epsom salt bath tonight.
Nikki

[Frank]

Altum wrote,
>This is probably a swim bladder infection...

I agree - If she can find it, Tetra makes, or made, a medicated food
for Parasites that worked great on swim bladder infections. Aquatronics
makes one that is OK, but I forgot the name of it. Waterlife makes
Protozin & Myxazin - I think they sell that on your side of the pond.
That's the trouble with not being able to buy an antibiotic over the
counter - all you need is a broad spectrum antibiotic...
A second guess would be constipation. If you haven't seen him with any
waste this morning, I would treat for constipation. One teaspoon of
Epsom Salts per US gallon works great, but not as a dip. Put the Epsom
Salts in his tank - won't harm a thing, even if it isn't
constipation.............Frank

[Nikki]

"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Nikki> at
> > was heard opining: Tried to get
>> him to eat some pea's he wont eat them, he normally don't like them,
>> pea day is Sunday and he sulks that day because he don't like them,
>> so I did not expect him to eat it......he is a spoiled little fish...
> ===============
> *Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*
>
> But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty bugs
> and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
I give all my fish a bit or two of pea once a week just to stay safe had
problems with constipation in the past, and it don't hurt them, actually
three of my betta's really like them (at least I think they do) when they
see me give them to the goldfish they beg at the front of the tank, so I
just started giving them some also.
Nik

[Gill Passman]

Nikki wrote:
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Nikki> at
> was heard opining: Tried to get
>>
>>>him to eat some pea's he wont eat them, he normally don't like them,
>>>pea day is Sunday and he sulks that day because he don't like them,
>>>so I did not expect him to eat it......he is a spoiled little fish...
>>
>>===============
>>*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*
>>
>>But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty bugs
>>and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.
>>--
>>Koi-Lo....
>>Frugal ponding since 1995.
>>Aquariums since 1952.
>>My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>>http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>>~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>
>>
>>
> I give all my fish a bit or two of pea once a week just to stay safe had
> problems with constipation in the past, and it don't hurt them, actually
> three of my betta's really like them (at least I think they do) when they
> see me give them to the goldfish they beg at the front of the tank, so I
> just started giving them some also.
> Nik
>
>

Nikki is quite right here....feeding peas or veg to usually carnivorous
fish helps clean out their bowels/stomachs....good thing....think of a
dog a total carnivore by nature - how many times do dogs go out and eat
grass?....it is an instinctive thing to clean out their stomachs....how
many many times have you cleaned up the resulting mess from at best your
kitchen floor at worst your most expensive rug? (yuk - have a dog, been
there done that)....or even worse, imagine if you lived on a meat only
diet....(sorry that one would be a credit to Mr G rather than me - lol)

I feed veggies to my meat eating fish occassionally - cleans out their
systems....

Gill

[Mister Gardener]

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:49:42 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:


>Nikki is quite right here....feeding peas or veg to usually carnivorous
>fish helps clean out their bowels/stomachs....good thing....think of a
>dog a total carnivore by nature - how many times do dogs go out and eat
>grass?....it is an instinctive thing to clean out their stomachs....how
>many many times have you cleaned up the resulting mess from at best your
>kitchen floor at worst your most expensive rug? (yuk - have a dog, been
>there done that)....or even worse, imagine if you lived on a meat only
>diet....(sorry that one would be a credit to Mr G rather than me - lol)
>
>I feed veggies to my meat eating fish occassionally - cleans out their
>systems....
>
>Gill
>
Now what in the world has Mr G got to do with any of this, unless
you're talking about, may he rest in peace, Mr Greenjeans. Very few
animals are total carnivores or total vegetarians. An all meat diet
for any animal can eventually cause constipation and other digestive
problems. Veggies keep things moving. Did I ever tell you about this
room mate I had in college?

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

[Nikki]

"Frank" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Altum wrote,
>>This is probably a swim bladder infection...
>
> I agree - If she can find it, Tetra makes, or made, a medicated food
> for Parasites that worked great on swim bladder infections. Aquatronics
> makes one that is OK, but I forgot the name of it. Waterlife makes
> Protozin & Myxazin - I think they sell that on your side of the pond.
> That's the trouble with not being able to buy an antibiotic over the
> counter - all you need is a broad spectrum antibiotic...
> A second guess would be constipation. If you haven't seen him with any
> waste this morning, I would treat for constipation. One teaspoon of
> Epsom Salts per US gallon works great, but not as a dip. Put the Epsom
> Salts in his tank - won't harm a thing, even if it isn't
> constipation.............Frank
>

Frank i have always been under the impression due to reading "dont leave
them in there more then 15-20 min" that you did it as a dip, which is how i
have done it.. You are sure its ok to leave him in it, and at the same dose
1 teaspoon per gallon? I will do that now, i was just dipping him for 15
min....i will leave him in it over night and see how he is in the morning
then try and go get him the med you said to use.
thanks a lot
Nik

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Nikki> at
> was heard opining:

> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty
>> bugs and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.
>> =========================
> I give all my fish a bit or two of pea once a week just to stay safe
> had problems with constipation in the past, and it don't hurt them,
> actually three of my betta's really like them (at least I think they
> do) when they see me give them to the goldfish they beg at the front
> of the tank, so I just started giving them some also.
> Nik
===========================
*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

I suppose it wont hurt them, but it seems like feeding spinach to a cat or
hay to a dog.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Gill Passman> at
> was heard opining:
>
> Nikki is quite right here....feeding peas or veg to usually
> carnivorous fish helps clean out their bowels/stomachs....good
> thing....think of a dog a total carnivore by nature - how many times
> do dogs go out and eat grass?....it is an instinctive thing to clean
> out their stomachs..
======================
*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

...how many many times have you cleaned up the
> resulting mess from at best your kitchen floor at worst your most
> expensive rug? (yuk - have a dog, been there done that)....or even
> worse, imagine if you lived on a meat only diet....(sorry that one
> would be a credit to Mr G rather than me - lol)

Our dogs (and the cat we had) eat grass and vomit it back up, usually
covered in hair and bits of "stuff.". The vet said that's how they clean
hair or fur from their stomachs,.... ugh! Bleah... :þ

> I feed veggies to my meat eating fish occassionally - cleans out their
> systems....

I never have, so never gave it a thought. Only the vegetarians and
omnivores got veggies or fruit. I feed my GF oranges for the fresh vitamin
C and color pigments. They get to share the pleco's zucchini and cucumbers.

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Koi-Lo]

Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Mister Gardener> at
> was heard opining:

Did I ever tell you about this
> room mate I had in college?
>
==================
*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

Uh,... LOL! ..... please don't. :-D
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
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[Beano]

Gill Passman wrote:
> MEAlston wrote:
>> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to
>> come up
>> for air. The extra large tail could present extra weight and the energy
>> required to move it further exhausts him. Perhaps you should consider
>> trimming the tail back some.
>>
>>
>
> I would be very suprised if this was the case and certainly would not
> consider trimming his tail.....no way....
>
> The advice to keep up the water changes is the best course until you
> find out what is actually wrong with him....keep up with the peas in
> case of constipation - another option is epsom salts but I've not used
> these myself (although I seem to remember that you have) - adding salt
> might also help....
>
> Gill

I used epsom salts on my baby oscar a few weeks back... They are
fabulous!!! Not sure how a betta would respond though...

[Frank]

Nikki wrote,
>You are sure its ok to leave him in it, and at the same dose
>1 teaspoon per gallon?.....

1 teaspoon per 5 US gal......... Frank

[Frank]

Nikki wrote,
>Frank i have always been under the impression due to reading "dont leave
>them in there more then 15-20 min" that you did it as a dip, which is how i
>have done it....

I used to hang out at the alt. aquarium news group (8 years or so)
before I switched over to this news group. I've been giving these 'home
med treatments' advice going back that far in the news group, being
carefull to be accurate with dosing, because many of my 'home med
treatments' haven't been heard of by many people. Then, in telling you
the right way to use the Epsom Salts to treat constipation, I give you
the wrong dose ((should have been 1 teaspoon per *5* US gals.)(forgot
to stick in that '5' )), and I'm _really_ sorry for that. I hope you
got my short reply with the right dose, before you went to bed so you
could give it the right dose! However, if your dose was 1 teaspoon per
gal. and you woke up with a dead betta because of me, please e-mail me
your home address as I would like to replace the betta - again,
sorry.............. Frank

[default]

Nikki, I just "inherited" my first betta from a 15 yr old boy who
lost interest in taking care of it. While it was at the house I
figured he (the betta) would die in the first week. He was kept in a
fish bowl in the kitchen, where the temp would range from 65-75 degrees
F daily. The fish always layed on the bottom of the bowl! I thought
for sure he was sick, but John said the fish store lady told him he
(the betta) was a lazy one. Lazy fish? Well, anyway, now he's in my
desktop planted 3 gallon and wouldn't you know it? Even in a lush,
filtered, heated, green garden, the darn fish just sits there all day.
He's either laying right down on the gravel or laying on a leaf. When
I feed him, it looks like he's really struggling to swim. He's been
this way since December of last year. All other outward signs look
fine, he's just not a swimmer I guess.

steve


Nikki wrote:
> Till this past week Mr. red betta was fine, I noticed this week he has been
> sitting in his silk tree a lot, however I moved his tank last week and he
> sulks when I move him so I was not surprised...but when I went to clean his
> tank today I noticed he was straight up and down, butt/tail down, head up,
> seems like he is having trouble swimming, he comes to the top once and a
> while and blows a bubble, then he will sink back down, he did have a bubble
> next a few days ago. I see nothing on his body that is not normal, his eyes
> are clear, fin/tail fine, very long, he had damage to it when I got him and
> after treating him his tail grew back very long....he is not swimming
> around, I feed him betta flakes, frozen brine shrimp, bloodworms once in a
> while, and pea's once a week. I guess the only thing I can see that is wrong
> is he is having a hard time swimming, and he is staying in a up/down
> position. If anyone has any idea's they want to run by me I would appreciate
> it, I am out of idea's.
>
> Nik

[Nikki]

"Frank" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Nikki wrote,
>>Frank i have always been under the impression due to reading "dont leave
>>them in there more then 15-20 min" that you did it as a dip, which is how
>>i
>>have done it....
>
> I used to hang out at the alt. aquarium news group (8 years or so)
> before I switched over to this news group. I've been giving these 'home
> med treatments' advice going back that far in the news group, being
> carefull to be accurate with dosing, because many of my 'home med
> treatments' haven't been heard of by many people. Then, in telling you
> the right way to use the Epsom Salts to treat constipation, I give you
> the wrong dose ((should have been 1 teaspoon per *5* US gals.)(forgot
> to stick in that '5' )), and I'm _really_ sorry for that. I hope you
> got my short reply with the right dose, before you went to bed so you
> could give it the right dose! However, if your dose was 1 teaspoon per
> gal. and you woke up with a dead betta because of me, please e-mail me
> your home address as I would like to replace the betta - again,
> sorry.............. Frank
>

No frank he is ok, sorry I was not on today I am really sick, I felt bad
after reading your post...did not want you to think anything happened to
him, although he is not swimming that well, he also does not seem worse, I
gave him peas yesterday and today he ate them (attacked them) but still has
not pooped, nothing at the bottom of his hex, happy as ever to see me when I
go over, I am giving him another day with pea's and Epsom salt because I do
think its constipation because of the no poop. I don't know what else to
do...
He is not even acting sick. PS: I would not replace him, I have enough male
bettas more then enough, I just happen to like him a lot, he sits beside my
computer and hangs out with me. for the record if you do a search it also
says 1 teaspoon per gallon for epsom salt, and i know the table spoon per 5
gallons with aquarium salt.
Nik

[Frank]

Nikki wrote,
> although he is not swimming that well, he also does not seem worse...

That's good - good that you didn't overdose the poor guy...

>for the record if you do a search it also
>says 1 teaspoon per gallon for epsom salt...

Although I never tried that high of a dose, I didn't think one teaspoon
per gal. would kill, but didn't really know. Still seems like it would
be way to much - one teaspoon per gal. used as a dip mabe, but as a
treatment (?) - you sure you read it right? One teaspoon of Epsom
Salts per 5 gals., raised temp. (85 to 86º), lot of air, and a
medicated food for a month is a treatment for Dropsy!

Well, I hope you can cure him...................... Frank

[Nikki]

"Frank" > wrote in message
oups.com...
Nikki wrote,
> although he is not swimming that well, he also does not seem worse...

That's good - good that you didn't overdose the poor guy...

>for the record if you do a search it also
>says 1 teaspoon per gallon for epsom salt...

Although I never tried that high of a dose, I didn't think one teaspoon
per gal. would kill, but didn't really know. Still seems like it would
be way to much - one teaspoon per gal. used as a dip mabe, but as a
treatment (?) - you sure you read it right? One teaspoon of Epsom
Salts per 5 gals., raised temp. (85 to 86º), lot of air, and a
medicated food for a month is a treatment for Dropsy!

Well, I hope you can cure him...................... Frank

frank is it possible it is not a infection, the reason I ask is he still has
not pooped (boy I don't ever think I talk about poop this much and I have
three kids) he has been in the Epsom salt, this is the third day, I have
gave him some pea's every day, and still nothing is coming out, his body
looks 100 normal not bloated, nothing sticking up, this morning I woke up
and he had a *big* bubble nest built and was his happy self, the only
problem he has a hard time swimming, to the top of what ever he is in.
Nik

[Frank]

Nikki wrote,
> is it possible it is not a infection....

Constipation isn't an infection, it's an intestinal obstruction, from
overfeeding most of the time.

>he has been in the Epsom salt, this is the third day, I have
>gave him some pea's every day....

The Epsom Salts isn't going to hurt him - try feeding some frozen
brineshrimp, mabe it's the peas that's pluging him up............. Frank

[Nikki]

yes I know constipation is not an infection, I was referring to swimmers
bladder, which I assume is what I am dealing with (he is dealing with).
Since it can be caused by many things like injury, constipation, bacterial
infection, and probably some more things I am not aware of, I was trying to
rule things out, the only change in his diet would of been the frozen brine
shrimp, I am not aware if they can cause constipation, I don't know how he
could get a bacterial infection, he is kept in very clean water, and I don't
see no injury on him and the only thing in his tank is a sponge filter and
silk plant, so I think its constipation but no swelling in his belly, I was
just watching him he will move his tail in the back hard to get to the top
to get air then float back down tail first he has to work to get up to the
top.....I had put a little more water in his hex today to see how he would
do, but I took it back down, I was surprised he was building a bubble nest
which makes me think he is not feeling to bad.
hay frank thanks for helping me out with this, im just frustrated. if you
get a chance I posted early today about my 3 spot blue gourami (the one the
kissing fish was bothering, I did take him out of the tank a few days back)
and the blue gourami seems happy about it, but today he lost his two black
spots, I never seen something like that before, and can only think it was
from being stressed..is that possible, he is now blue/gray all over no spots
Nik

"Frank" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Nikki wrote,
>> is it possible it is not a infection....
>
> Constipation isn't an infection, it's an intestinal obstruction, from
> overfeeding most of the time.
>
>>he has been in the Epsom salt, this is the third day, I have
>>gave him some pea's every day....
>
> The Epsom Salts isn't going to hurt him - try feeding some frozen
> brineshrimp, mabe it's the peas that's pluging him up............. Frank
>

[Frank]

Nikki wrote,
>yes I know constipation is not an infection, I was referring to swimmers
>bladder, which I assume is what I am dealing with.............
>Since it can be caused by many things like injury, constipation, bacterial
>infection, and probably some more things I am not aware of, I was trying to
>rule things out..............

Swim bladder infections are bacterial origin - without an antibitoc,
hard to treat. On your side of the pond, you have a Waterlife product
(medicated food) called Protozin & Myxazin - I would give that a try
for a few days and see if it will make a difference.

> the only change in his diet would of been the frozen brine
>shrimp, I am not aware if they can cause constipation.....

To much of any kind of food could have given it constipation - if he
has been eating peas for 2 or 3 days, switch him back to the brine
shrimp, or blood/black worms...

>so I think its constipation but no swelling in his belly....

If he hasn't had any waste in three days - it's constipation, I
wouldn't worry about it being a swim bladder infection. No swelling yet
(?) beleave me, with Epsom Salts in the tank and he's still eating, he
will eather swell first, then pass his waste, or just start passing his
waste. When he does, if the stool is long, white and thin, then there
is some type of bacterial infection going on...

>I was surprised he was building a bubble nest
>which makes me think he is not feeling to bad...

Just one of those guy things - my wife calls it "wishfull
thinking"................ Frank

[Nikki]

"Frank" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Nikki wrote,
>>yes I know constipation is not an infection, I was referring to swimmers
>>bladder, which I assume is what I am dealing with.............
>>Since it can be caused by many things like injury, constipation, bacterial
>>infection, and probably some more things I am not aware of, I was trying
>>to
>>rule things out..............
>
> Swim bladder infections are bacterial origin - without an antibitoc,
> hard to treat. On your side of the pond, you have a Waterlife product
> (medicated food) called Protozin & Myxazin - I would give that a try
> for a few days and see if it will make a difference.
>
>> the only change in his diet would of been the frozen brine
>>shrimp, I am not aware if they can cause constipation.....
>
> To much of any kind of food could have given it constipation - if he
> has been eating peas for 2 or 3 days, switch him back to the brine
> shrimp, or blood/black worms...
>
>>so I think its constipation but no swelling in his belly....
>
> If he hasn't had any waste in three days - it's constipation, I
> wouldn't worry about it being a swim bladder infection. No swelling yet
> (?) beleave me, with Epsom Salts in the tank and he's still eating, he
> will eather swell first, then pass his waste, or just start passing his
> waste. When he does, if the stool is long, white and thin, then there
> is some type of bacterial infection going on...
>
>>I was surprised he was building a bubble nest
>>which makes me think he is not feeling to bad...
>
> Just one of those guy things - my wife calls it "wishfull
> thinking"................ Frank
>

well in his defense he is in sight of the female betta's tank so he has 9
girls in front of him...probably showing off a little.....lol
nik

[IDzine01]

>But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty bugs
>and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.

Bettas can become consitpated from being overfed or from eating dry
food like pellets, which can swell to 3x their size after soaking up
water in the digestive track. A consistant diet of meat with no fiber
can also cause constipation. In nature, bettas would be eating the
wings and exoskeletons that would help to clear things out. If you feed
your bettas a diet consisting mostly of meat the pea will help to add
the fiber that is missing.

It's generally believed that constipation can cause pressure internally
affecting the swim bladder, which leaves the betta unable to right
himself. Usually a couple of days of fasting fixes the problem.

[Koi-Lo]

*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

"IDzine01" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty bugs
>>and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.
>
> Bettas can become consitpated from being overfed or from eating dry
> food like pellets, which can swell to 3x their size after soaking up
> water in the digestive track. A consistant diet of meat with no fiber
> can also cause constipation. In nature, bettas would be eating the
> wings and exoskeletons that would help to clear things out. If you feed
> your bettas a diet consisting mostly of meat the pea will help to add
> the fiber that is missing.

I see. I suppose since I haven't had that experience with bettas yet I
never had to consider feeding them peas. They only get thawed frozen foods
and pellets designed for bettas. They don't like flakes so I seldom feed
them betta flakes.

> It's generally believed that constipation can cause pressure internally
> affecting the swim bladder, which leaves the betta unable to right
> himself. Usually a couple of days of fasting fixes the problem.

Thanks for the info' :-)
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

Nikki wrote:

> I give all my fish a bit or two of pea once a week just to stay safe had
> problems with constipation in the past, and it don't hurt them, actually
> three of my betta's really like them (at least I think they do) when they
> see me give them to the goldfish they beg at the front of the tank, so I
> just started giving them some also.

Mine get a basic diet of flake food, combined with some live food when I
happen to come by the pet shop (red and white blood worms, Artemia and
Tubifex in turn). The idea is that manufacturers of flake food can mix
various food components to meet the nutritional needs of fish, while the
live food allows them to practice their hunting behaviour. All my fish
(except the Otos of course but including my Bettas) love the flakes, and
according to the label they contain fish meal, brown rice, algae, yeast,
shrimp, weat, potatoe and soy plus colourings and vitamins. Sounds like
a healthy, mixed diet to me.

[Nikki]

"Dr Engelbert Buxbaum" > wrote in message
...
> Nikki wrote:
>
>> I give all my fish a bit or two of pea once a week just to stay safe had
>> problems with constipation in the past, and it don't hurt them, actually
>> three of my betta's really like them (at least I think they do) when they
>> see me give them to the goldfish they beg at the front of the tank, so I
>> just started giving them some also.
>
> Mine get a basic diet of flake food, combined with some live food when I
> happen to come by the pet shop (red and white blood worms, Artemia and
> Tubifex in turn). The idea is that manufacturers of flake food can mix
> various food components to meet the nutritional needs of fish, while the
> live food allows them to practice their hunting behaviour. All my fish
> (except the Otos of course but including my Bettas) love the flakes, and
> according to the label they contain fish meal, brown rice, algae, yeast,
> shrimp, weat, potatoe and soy plus colourings and vitamins. Sounds like
> a healthy, mixed diet to me.

yes I agree with you.....and I don't think it would hurt the betta's to not
get the pea's but since they like them, and they are close by the GF I just
give it to them, all it can do is clean them out...lol..
I also feed the betta flakes, sometimes I will give them blood worms, if I
am feeding the others something I will usually give them a piece also...I am
going to pick up some of that Atison's betta food, they also have Atison's
betta starter for fry that they say you can use for betta fry instead of
live food...I am going to seperate the fry and see how the ones who dont get
live food and only that do, the guy who makes it or Co that makes it says
they use it instead of live food..I will see
Nik

[Tynk]

MEAlston wrote:
> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come up
> for air.

WHAT!!!!!

Don't ever, ever recommend that to anyone!

Sheesh!

A Betta that has an extended tail, such as a Delta or Super Delta may
hang down on the rear end a little, but not heads up-tail
down..vertical like Nikki is describing.
This is not his tail being too long or too heavy.
This is just all of a sudden.
I've seen this on a couple Bettas that had a bacterial infection, and
one of them had Flexibactor bacteria (Columnaris, or aka body "fungus"
which isn't a true fungus).
Now I'm not saying it's Flex, because the other male I saw doing this
didn't show the typical symptoms of Flex.

[Tynk]

Koi-Lo wrote:
> Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond <Nikki> at
> > was heard opining: Tried to get
> > him to eat some pea's he wont eat them, he normally don't like them,
> > pea day is Sunday and he sulks that day because he don't like them,
> > so I did not expect him to eat it......he is a spoiled little fish...
> ===============
> *Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*
>

> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

Koi-Lo
> But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty bugs
> and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.

This is actualy a good thing to do with a Betta that becomes
constipated, or that gets freeze dried foods mainly (which can cause
constipation).
The way to get things moving faster (more so than a feeding of frozen
or live Brine) is feeding it a cooked, shelled, pea.

[Nikki]

>
> This is actualy a good thing to do with a Betta that becomes
> constipated, or that gets freeze dried foods mainly (which can cause
> constipation).
> The way to get things moving faster (more so than a feeding of frozen
> or live Brine) is feeding it a cooked, shelled, pea.
>


Mr. red fish is still not swimming, he can get up if he wants to because I
have seen him at the top of the water but has to work a little hard to do
it, and since he has a big bubble nest going he is getting up there, but
still not swimming like a *normal* betta. (however i only have his tank half
full)
I guess I am going to go get some antibiotics since the Epsom salt and pea
did nothing for him, I just don't think other then the swimming thing he is
acting sick at all. He still does his betta dance when he sees me.
I also have a red female (guess its a red thing here) who is having a bit of
a problem *i think* i have nine females together and i will catch the one
red female looking like she is having problems staying up but then sometimes
(like at feeding) she is up at the top with the rest, she does look overly
full with eggs, i thought about puttitng her in with a male however if she
does not feel good i dont want her to get hurt.
I also gave up on spawing the blue male... he i guess is just to friendly he
is not getting the idea, he spent more time playing with her *for a week* i
considered putting him in with the females he never flared at her, never bit
her, was nice as can be..i think she was trying to show him but he is a boy
go figure....so i have a off white male with a deep red tail so i exchanged
them, but he is a little mean so i worry about him a bit....these betta's
are driving me crazy
Nik

[Nikki]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> MEAlston wrote:
>> He sounds like his tail is more than he wants to manage...He want to come
>> up
>> for air.
>
> WHAT!!!!!
>
> Don't ever, ever recommend that to anyone!
>
> Sheesh!
>
> A Betta that has an extended tail, such as a Delta or Super Delta may
> hang down on the rear end a little, but not heads up-tail
> down..vertical like Nikki is describing.
> This is not his tail being too long or too heavy.
> This is just all of a sudden.
> I've seen this on a couple Bettas that had a bacterial infection, and
> one of them had Flexibactor bacteria (Columnaris, or aka body "fungus"
> which isn't a true fungus).
> Now I'm not saying it's Flex, because the other male I saw doing this
> didn't show the typical symptoms of Flex.
>

You know I have checked him with a magnified glass and flash light for any
kind of fungus or anything else for that matter, I kept him in a betta hex
(even though I hate them) so I could watch what was coming out, when I was
feeding him the pea and doing Epsom salt baths, I did not see no fungus
....his tail is fine (by the way I was joking about the tail holding him
down, that's what it looks like when you see him, he has a big beautiful
tail)
nikki

[Koi-Lo]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Koi-Lo
>> But why would you feed peas to a carnivorous fish? Bettas eat meaty bugs
>> and insects, not veggies. Personally I would skip the peas.
>
> This is actualy a good thing to do with a Betta that becomes
> constipated, or that gets freeze dried foods mainly (which can cause
> constipation).
> The way to get things moving faster (more so than a feeding of frozen
> or live Brine) is feeding it a cooked, shelled, pea.
=======================
Thanks. That's good to know if one of my "boys" develops a problem.........
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Koi-Lo]

"Nikki" > wrote in message
...
> I also gave up on spawing the blue male... he i guess is just to friendly
> he is not getting the idea, he spent more time playing with her *for a
> week* i considered putting him in with the females he never flared at her,
> never bit her, ................
=====================
I'm wondering if the clerk who sold my grandson a pair of bettas had one
like this. Of course the one my grandson got wasn't........ I've got to
call him and find out if he ever got the tank.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>