What is the best type of pond snail?

[[email protected]]

Hello, NG.

>From my expirence with freshwater aquariums, I found the snails I tried
all reproduced quickly and were hard to control. Anyone have a
recommendation for good pond snail? Or should I instead go with a few
algae eaters from a tropical fish store? I live in north Florida and
have a new, 5-day old, 400-500 gallon pond.

Second question: I plan on adding snails or algae eaters next week --
about 10-14 days after setup. Is this good or bad timing?

Patrick

[Gail Futoran]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello, NG.
>
>>From my expirence with freshwater aquariums, I found the snails I tried
> all reproduced quickly and were hard to control. Anyone have a
> recommendation for good pond snail? Or should I instead go with a few
> algae eaters from a tropical fish store? I live in north Florida and
> have a new, 5-day old, 400-500 gallon pond.

Japanese Trapdoor snails are live bearers, don't
breed very much so won't overrun your pond.
They also won't bother your plants. On the
downside, they don't eat all that much algae.
But they're nice snails to have in the pond.

> Second question: I plan on adding snails or algae eaters next week --
> about 10-14 days after setup. Is this good or bad timing?
>
> Patrick

I can't see that it would be a problem unless
there's not enough food for them. I suppose you
could always toss in some algae tablets or
flakes for awhile until algae appears.

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8

[[email protected]]

there is no such thing as a good snail and if you got algae eaters, dont have
goldfish or koi in that pond. Ingrid

wrote:

>Hello, NG.
>
>>From my expirence with freshwater aquariums, I found the snails I tried
>all reproduced quickly and were hard to control. Anyone have a
>recommendation for good pond snail? Or should I instead go with a few
>algae eaters from a tropical fish store? I live in north Florida and
>have a new, 5-day old, 400-500 gallon pond.
>
>Second question: I plan on adding snails or algae eaters next week --
>about 10-14 days after setup. Is this good or bad timing?
>
>Patrick



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[loopy livernose]

> wrote in message
...
> there is no such thing as a good snail <snip>

can you quantify that statement please? I was of the belief snails were
beneficial to a pond, and are definitely part of a natural ponds ecosystem.

Loopy



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[Derek Broughton]

loopy livernose wrote:

>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> there is no such thing as a good snail <snip>
>
> can you quantify that statement please? I was of the belief snails were
> beneficial to a pond, and are definitely part of a natural ponds
> ecosystem.

Ingrid has a reasonably justifiable fear of snail-born pathogens. However,
you're entirely right - they're a natural part a the ecosystem and they do
have a beneficial place in the pond. You'll never eliminate them without
killing off every other invertebrate in the pond anyway, so you have to
live with them. I wouldn't actually go out and buy any, though.
--
derek

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 3 May 2006 13:59:29 +0100, "loopy livernose"
> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> there is no such thing as a good snail <snip>
>
>can you quantify that statement please? I was of the belief snails were
>beneficial to a pond, and are definitely part of a natural ponds ecosystem.
>
>Loopy

The State of Maine Fish and Wildlife Department agrees that there is
no such thing as a good snail, hence their importation into the state
is illegal.

"Snails - Because they serve as intermediate host for a wide range of
aquatic parasites and other pathogens, all snails (Gastropoda) are
restricted and can be imported only by a special importation permit
with specific health certifications, therefore snails cannot be traded
by commercial pet shops. "

Introducing a snail into a fish pond would likely bring a double
whammy, since pond fish are banned in the sate of Maine as well. I had
the pleasure of meeting the man who does inspections across the state
to enforce these laws. I asked him whether a pond in a private
person's yard could have any fish at all, and he told me yes, they may
have fish like shiners and blue gills if those fish were obtained from
another lake in the state, but only with a special permit. He told me
he has shut down hundreds of goldfish ponds and that the fine is
$10,000. I ran into the guy quite by accident and I ran as many
questions past him as I could, and I could have kept him busy for a
few days without stopping for a break. Getting the story (and reason)
on each and every species on the banned or permitted list.

Introducing tadpoles into any body of water is illegal. First grade
teachers are no longer permitted to bring in their tadpoles in a jar
classroom projects.

We were in a pet shop for this conversation, a pet shop that I knew
had tons of little snails that had hitchhiked into the state on
aquatic plants. I asked him if the law, and his enforcement, extended
to those snails as well. He said, if I inspect the tanks here, and see
a snail, I will tell the owner to kill them, and I will wait to see
that it is done. Otherwise, I could shut down the store or issue a
very large fine.

When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
southern Maine. Amazing.

Recently, officials were finally able to capture and remove an
alligator that had survived 3 winters in a Maine pond.

And on a more hopeful note, this guy is not all bad. He told me he has
closed 3 WalMart fish departments and expects to close another one
this week.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

[Koi-Lo]

*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hello, NG.
>
>>From my expirence with freshwater aquariums, I found the snails I tried
> all reproduced quickly and were hard to control. Anyone have a
> recommendation for good pond snail? Or should I instead go with a few
> algae eaters from a tropical fish store? I live in north Florida and
> have a new, 5-day old, 400-500 gallon pond.
>
> Second question: I plan on adding snails or algae eaters next week --

Some snails are more prolific than I think you realize. Some carry disease.
Koi and goldfish don't eat them. You then have to worry how you're going to
get their population under control.

> about 10-14 days after setup. Is this good or bad timing?

Algae eaters are known to rasp the slime coat of fish, removing the
protective layer and exposing them to ulcer-disease and other infections. I
would by-pass snails and algae eaters.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[[email protected]]

your pond is not natural. snails are intermediate host for diseases of fish. if you
arent going to have goldfish or koi, then there isnt a problem.
large snails, when they die and rot, are gaggingly putrid stinky.
Ingrid

"loopy livernose" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> there is no such thing as a good snail <snip>
>
>can you quantify that statement please? I was of the belief snails were
>beneficial to a pond, and are definitely part of a natural ponds ecosystem.
>
>Loopy



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[~ A R T J A M E S ~ Roy's friend!]

On Wed, 3 May 2006 09:49:55 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:
>><>*Note: There are TWO "Koi-Lo's" on this NG*
>><>

Learn to count bitch.........

If I was adding any to my pond it would have to be that Carol Gulley
species.......kinf of ....er ah, never maind, that species is a slug
not a snail...............so if ya need a prolific slug the Gulley
species is the way to go..............
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1982.
Aquariums since 1956.
Some assholes Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://maketiny.com/1cT
My pics.
http://n5.se/1cR


*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[~ A R T J A M E S ~ Roy's friend!]

Yet just your opinion........maybe you just have not mastered the art
of keeping snails..........hmmmmm.......... not as smart as I usually
gave yoiu creit for being.........have to add you to the list of
dumbasses I guess................So with your way of t hinking then
small snails when they die do not stink or gag yu? Duh!


On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:58:44 GMT, wrote:
>><>your pond is not natural. snails are intermediate host for diseases of fish. if you
>><>arent going to have goldfish or koi, then there isnt a problem.
>><>large snails, when they die and rot, are gaggingly putrid stinky.
>><>Ingrid
>><>
>><>"loopy livernose" > wrote:
>><>
>><>>
> wrote in message
...
>><>>> there is no such thing as a good snail <snip>
>><>>
>><>>can you quantify that statement please? I was of the belief snails were
>><>>beneficial to a pond, and are definitely part of a natural ponds ecosystem.
>><>>
>><>>Loopy
>><>
>><>
>><>
>><>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>><>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
>><>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
>><>sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
>><>www.drsolo.com
>><>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>><>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>><>I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
>><>I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
>><>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>><>Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1982.
Aquariums since 1956.
Some assholes Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://maketiny.com/1cT
My pics.
http://n5.se/1cR


*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
~~~ }<((((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((((o>

[loopy livernose]

"Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 3 May 2006 13:59:29 +0100, "loopy livernose"
> > wrote:
>
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>> there is no such thing as a good snail <snip>
>>
>>can you quantify that statement please? I was of the belief snails were
>>beneficial to a pond, and are definitely part of a natural ponds
>>ecosystem.
>>
>>Loopy
>
> The State of Maine Fish and Wildlife Department agrees that there is
> no such thing as a good snail, hence their importation into the state
> is illegal.
>
> "Snails - Because they serve as intermediate host for a wide range of
> aquatic parasites and other pathogens, all snails (Gastropoda) are
> restricted and can be imported only by a special importation permit
> with specific health certifications, therefore snails cannot be traded
> by commercial pet shops. "
>
> Introducing a snail into a fish pond would likely bring a double
> whammy, since pond fish are banned in the sate of Maine as well. I had
> the pleasure of meeting the man who does inspections across the state
> to enforce these laws. I asked him whether a pond in a private
> person's yard could have any fish at all, and he told me yes, they may
> have fish like shiners and blue gills if those fish were obtained from
> another lake in the state, but only with a special permit. He told me
> he has shut down hundreds of goldfish ponds and that the fine is
> $10,000. I ran into the guy quite by accident and I ran as many
> questions past him as I could, and I could have kept him busy for a
> few days without stopping for a break. Getting the story (and reason)
> on each and every species on the banned or permitted list.
>
> Introducing tadpoles into any body of water is illegal. First grade
> teachers are no longer permitted to bring in their tadpoles in a jar
> classroom projects.
>
> We were in a pet shop for this conversation, a pet shop that I knew
> had tons of little snails that had hitchhiked into the state on
> aquatic plants. I asked him if the law, and his enforcement, extended
> to those snails as well. He said, if I inspect the tanks here, and see
> a snail, I will tell the owner to kill them, and I will wait to see
> that it is done. Otherwise, I could shut down the store or issue a
> very large fine.
>
> When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
> species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
> Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
> people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
> survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
> me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
> in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
> southern Maine. Amazing.
>
> Recently, officials were finally able to capture and remove an
> alligator that had survived 3 winters in a Maine pond.
>
> And on a more hopeful note, this guy is not all bad. He told me he has
> closed 3 WalMart fish departments and expects to close another one
> this week.
>

Many thanks for the lengthy reply.

I am in the UK and find all this quite interesting, although our laws are
as yet far less encroaching we are getting there slowly.

I have a Very few Ramshorn (natural pond snails that are native) snails in
my pond, but they breed very slowly and if the fish don't eat them, I don't
know why I have so few.

My Parents had some whelk looking long shelled snails in there pond and they
seem to eat everything!! They are non native but have now almost taken over
our waterways and rivers, leaving ramshorn's suffering because they breed so
much slower.

I just keep a few ramshorns in my veggie filter (well there's 2 in there)
and a few in my "frog bog".

But I will bear this thread in mind, because I was thinking of buying some
"tiger" (Viviparous striped pond snails) snails, but I think I'll maybe give
Em a miss now!!

loopy




--
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[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:04:46 -0400, Mister Gardener
> wrote:

Re: this post. This is the link to the official list of species that
ARE PERMITTED to be imported into the state. If it's not on this list,
it's not allowed.
http://www.state.me.us/ifw/wildlife/unrestrictedspecies.htm

>The State of Maine Fish and Wildlife Department agrees that there is
>no such thing as a good snail, hence their importation into the state
>is illegal.
>
>"Snails - Because they serve as intermediate host for a wide range of
>aquatic parasites and other pathogens, all snails (Gastropoda) are
>restricted and can be imported only by a special importation permit
>with specific health certifications, therefore snails cannot be traded
>by commercial pet shops. "
>
>Introducing a snail into a fish pond would likely bring a double
>whammy, since pond fish are banned in the sate of Maine as well. I had
>the pleasure of meeting the man who does inspections across the state
>to enforce these laws. I asked him whether a pond in a private
>person's yard could have any fish at all, and he told me yes, they may
>have fish like shiners and blue gills if those fish were obtained from
>another lake in the state, but only with a special permit. He told me
>he has shut down hundreds of goldfish ponds and that the fine is
>$10,000. I ran into the guy quite by accident and I ran as many
>questions past him as I could, and I could have kept him busy for a
>few days without stopping for a break. Getting the story (and reason)
>on each and every species on the banned or permitted list.
>
>Introducing tadpoles into any body of water is illegal. First grade
>teachers are no longer permitted to bring in their tadpoles in a jar
>classroom projects.
>
>We were in a pet shop for this conversation, a pet shop that I knew
>had tons of little snails that had hitchhiked into the state on
>aquatic plants. I asked him if the law, and his enforcement, extended
>to those snails as well. He said, if I inspect the tanks here, and see
>a snail, I will tell the owner to kill them, and I will wait to see
>that it is done. Otherwise, I could shut down the store or issue a
>very large fine.
>
>When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
>species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
>Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
>people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
>survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
>me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
>in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
>southern Maine. Amazing.
>
>Recently, officials were finally able to capture and remove an
>alligator that had survived 3 winters in a Maine pond.
>
>And on a more hopeful note, this guy is not all bad. He told me he has
>closed 3 WalMart fish departments and expects to close another one
>this week.
>
>-- Mister Gardener
>-- Pull the WEED to email me

[Derek Broughton]

Mister Gardener wrote:

> When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
> species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
> Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
> people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
> survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
> me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
> in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
> southern Maine. Amazing.

He "said" that, but I still maintain that it's no more than a suburban
legend. There's no documentation available online, and the one source I
was able to find for you implicitly stated that they have not been
naturalized.
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

loopy livernose wrote:

>
> "Mister Gardener" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Recently, officials were finally able to capture and remove an
>> alligator that had survived 3 winters in a Maine pond.
>>

An alligator, btw, is subtropical (not to mention much more massive). Jack
Dempseys are tropical. The fact that an alligator could survive says
nothing about Dempseys.

> I have a Very few Ramshorn (natural pond snails that are native) snails in
> my pond, but they breed very slowly and if the fish don't eat them, I
> don't know why I have so few.

Fish and/or acid rain. Acidity weakens their shells, making it easier for
fish to extract the snail, but goldfish and koi will munch on snails
anyway.
--
derek

[Derek Broughton]

wrote:

> your pond is not natural. snails are intermediate host for diseases of
> fish. if you arent going to have goldfish or koi, then there isnt a
> problem. large snails, when they die and rot, are gaggingly putrid stinky.

Only if they have massive enough shells to deter the fish - otherwise they
get eaten anyway (of course, still exposing the fish to potential disease).
--
derek

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:27:06 -0300, Derek Broughton
> wrote:

>Mister Gardener wrote:
>
>> When I posted the link to Maine's official list of allowed and banned
>> species a few weeks ago, several people expressed disbelief that the
>> Jack Dempsey has been added to the list of banned imports. How, many
>> people asked, could a Jack Dempsey be a threat, no way could one
>> survive a Maine winter. I asked the inspector about this and he told
>> me that Jack Dempseys were found to have survived more than one winter
>> in the state of Connecticut, whose climate can be just as harsh as
>> southern Maine. Amazing.
>
>He "said" that, but I still maintain that it's no more than a suburban
>legend. There's no documentation available online, and the one source I
>was able to find for you implicitly stated that they have not been
>naturalized.

I'm sorry Derek, but he is one of the officials of the State
Department of Fish and Wildlife. I really doubt he is acting on urban
legends. And surviving a winter is the first step toward
naturalization, the goal here is to prevent naturalization. I've
posted the web site, I'm sure you can express your differences to one
of the addresses listed there.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

[netDenizen]

Mister Gardener wrote:
> On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:04:46 -0400, Mister Gardener
> > wrote:
>
> Re: this post. This is the link to the official list of species that
> ARE PERMITTED to be imported into the state. If it's not on this list,
> it's not allowed.
> http://www.state.me.us/ifw/wildlife/unrestrictedspecies.htm
>
>

Thanks for posting Maine's list! A great many types of fish seem to be
allowed, so it doesn't appear too restrictive.

It does seem to me though, that the aquarium/ pond hobby does not pose
much harm to our natural environment. Certain types of plants
(milfoil...) excepted.

[Mister Gardener]

On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:52:17 -0400, netDenizen > wrote:

>Mister Gardener wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 May 2006 10:04:46 -0400, Mister Gardener
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Re: this post. This is the link to the official list of species that
>> ARE PERMITTED to be imported into the state. If it's not on this list,
>> it's not allowed.
>> http://www.state.me.us/ifw/wildlife/unrestrictedspecies.htm
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for posting Maine's list! A great many types of fish seem to be
>allowed, so it doesn't appear too restrictive.

They only began this list thing a few years ago, and for the first
year or two, the list was very short, as each species had to be
studied before addition to the list. And that take time. It drove the
pet industry and hobbyists wild!

>
>It does seem to me though, that the aquarium/ pond hobby does not pose
>much harm to our natural environment. Certain types of plants
>(milfoil...) excepted.

Maine's restricted plant list is short, but includes two milfoils.
Milfoil is a dirty word around these parts.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me