Re: SAE aggression or mating?

[Nikki Casali]

Bill Stock wrote:

> OK, so aggression is a bit overstated. They sit on the bottom and one slowly
> approaches the other and it backs off. Then the one that backed off
> approaches the first one and it backs off. I don't know if this is a
> territorial thing or a mating ritual. It all looks pretty peaceful whatever
> is happening.

I have two aquariums with SAE. In the 75 gallon the three SAE seem to
get on with each other. The bigger one does like to show its authority
every so by gently chasing the smaller two, otherwise they enjoy
swimming together. In my 24 gallon tank the three SAE hate each other
with a vengeance. Last week, one shot through a tiny hole at the back of
the tank and found it dried up and dead on the condensation glass cover.
The remaining two stay at opposite ends of the tank. Maybe its a space
issue. Or maybe its a size issue. Those three were identical in size.
How to choose a leader when they are all equal in strength and size?

Nikki

[Bill Stock]

"Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
...

> I have two aquariums with SAE. In the 75 gallon the three SAE seem to get
> on with each other. The bigger one does like to show its authority every
> so by gently chasing the smaller two, otherwise they enjoy swimming
> together. In my 24 gallon tank the three SAE hate each other with a
> vengeance. Last week, one shot through a tiny hole at the back of the tank
> and found it dried up and dead on the condensation glass cover. The
> remaining two stay at opposite ends of the tank. Maybe its a space issue.
> Or maybe its a size issue. Those three were identical in size. How to
> choose a leader when they are all equal in strength and size?

Yeah, I suspect they're trying to assert their authority over the feeding
corner. They're certainly polite about it though.

I lost one when I got my first batch, it leapt out of the assimilation
chamber. I also lost one in the big tank, but I have no idea what happened
to that one.

[Nikki Casali]

Bill Stock wrote:
> "Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>I have two aquariums with SAE. In the 75 gallon the three SAE seem to get
>>on with each other. The bigger one does like to show its authority every
>>so by gently chasing the smaller two, otherwise they enjoy swimming
>>together. In my 24 gallon tank the three SAE hate each other with a
>>vengeance. Last week, one shot through a tiny hole at the back of the tank
>>and found it dried up and dead on the condensation glass cover. The
>>remaining two stay at opposite ends of the tank. Maybe its a space issue.
>>Or maybe its a size issue. Those three were identical in size. How to
>>choose a leader when they are all equal in strength and size?
>
>
> Yeah, I suspect they're trying to assert their authority over the feeding
> corner. They're certainly polite about it though.
>
> I lost one when I got my first batch, it leapt out of the assimilation
> chamber.

Trying to flee from the Borg, I suspect?

I also lost one in the big tank, but I have no idea what happened
> to that one.

I've blocked up every hole. Nothing's getting in or out without express
permission. Hoping that the plants and CO2 provide sufficient life
support in the absence of ambient air.

Nikki

[Dick]

On Mon, 08 May 2006 13:48:34 +0100, Nikki Casali
> wrote:

>Bill Stock wrote:
>
>> OK, so aggression is a bit overstated. They sit on the bottom and one slowly
>> approaches the other and it backs off. Then the one that backed off
>> approaches the first one and it backs off. I don't know if this is a
>> territorial thing or a mating ritual. It all looks pretty peaceful whatever
>> is happening.
>
>I have two aquariums with SAE. In the 75 gallon the three SAE seem to
>get on with each other. The bigger one does like to show its authority
>every so by gently chasing the smaller two, otherwise they enjoy
>swimming together. In my 24 gallon tank the three SAE hate each other
>with a vengeance. Last week, one shot through a tiny hole at the back of
>the tank and found it dried up and dead on the condensation glass cover.
>The remaining two stay at opposite ends of the tank. Maybe its a space
>issue. Or maybe its a size issue. Those three were identical in size.
>How to choose a leader when they are all equal in strength and size?
>
>Nikki

I have 3 SAEs in a 29 gallon tank, 6 in the 75 and one in a 10 gallon
tank.

I see the "glass dance" in all 3 tanks. I do see side by side
swimming, but I have never noticed any form of attack. I think I
would have noticed as one thing I prize about my communities is how
well they get along. I hate to see torn fins. I have a black
angelfish that I love dearly, but the girl often hurts herself by
getting caught in places she can't maneuver.

Nikki, isn't jumping out of a tank somewhat common? I keep my tanks
pretty tight. I have had fish jump in the past, but did not relate it
to aggression. My SAEs often make a run from the bottom to the top
breaking the water's surface. I don't see any chasing related to the
journey. What about the behavior of the 3 that "hate" each other
leads you to call it that? I know we sometimes cannot put into words
how such feelings come about and I am not trying to argue their
behavior is not "hate", but I am curious what you see that leads to
that conclusion. I see lots of fish chasing each other. Often the
lead (victim?) will turn and become the aggressor. They never do harm
to one another. I take the behavior as playful.

dick

[Nikki Casali]

Dick wrote:

> On Mon, 08 May 2006 13:48:34 +0100, Nikki Casali
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Bill Stock wrote:
>>
>>
>>>OK, so aggression is a bit overstated. They sit on the bottom and one slowly
>>>approaches the other and it backs off. Then the one that backed off
>>>approaches the first one and it backs off. I don't know if this is a
>>>territorial thing or a mating ritual. It all looks pretty peaceful whatever
>>>is happening.
>>
>>I have two aquariums with SAE. In the 75 gallon the three SAE seem to
>>get on with each other. The bigger one does like to show its authority
>>every so by gently chasing the smaller two, otherwise they enjoy
>>swimming together. In my 24 gallon tank the three SAE hate each other
>>with a vengeance. Last week, one shot through a tiny hole at the back of
>>the tank and found it dried up and dead on the condensation glass cover.
>>The remaining two stay at opposite ends of the tank. Maybe its a space
>>issue. Or maybe its a size issue. Those three were identical in size.
>>How to choose a leader when they are all equal in strength and size?
>>
>>Nikki
>
>
> I have 3 SAEs in a 29 gallon tank, 6 in the 75 and one in a 10 gallon
> tank.
>
> I see the "glass dance" in all 3 tanks. I do see side by side
> swimming, but I have never noticed any form of attack. I think I
> would have noticed as one thing I prize about my communities is how
> well they get along. I hate to see torn fins. I have a black
> angelfish that I love dearly, but the girl often hurts herself by
> getting caught in places she can't maneuver.

She a bit clumsy?

>
> Nikki, isn't jumping out of a tank somewhat common? I keep my tanks
> pretty tight. I have had fish jump in the past, but did not relate it
> to aggression. My SAEs often make a run from the bottom to the top
> breaking the water's surface. I don't see any chasing related to the
> journey. What about the behavior of the 3 that "hate" each other
> leads you to call it that? I know we sometimes cannot put into words
> how such feelings come about and I am not trying to argue their
> behavior is not "hate", but I am curious what you see that leads to
> that conclusion. I see lots of fish chasing each other. Often the
> lead (victim?) will turn and become the aggressor. They never do harm
> to one another. I take the behavior as playful.

The two SAE chase each other until their stripes almost disappear and
their gills are pumping hard. They do shoot across the aquarium when
they are being chased but at no other time. I'm presuming this is what
happened to the jumper. Have you seen your SAE do a run spontaneously
with no prompting? I wonder why they'd do that.

Nikki

[Altum]

Nikki Casali wrote:

> I've blocked up every hole. Nothing's getting in or out without express
> permission. Hoping that the plants and CO2 provide sufficient life
> support in the absence of ambient air.

ROFL! I have visions of a tank in a bubble...

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to email me.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

[Dick]

On Tue, 09 May 2006 15:03:47 +0100, Nikki Casali
> wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 08 May 2006 13:48:34 +0100, Nikki Casali
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bill Stock wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>OK, so aggression is a bit overstated. They sit on the bottom and one slowly
>>>>approaches the other and it backs off. Then the one that backed off
>>>>approaches the first one and it backs off. I don't know if this is a
>>>>territorial thing or a mating ritual. It all looks pretty peaceful whatever
>>>>is happening.
>>>
>>>I have two aquariums with SAE. In the 75 gallon the three SAE seem to
>>>get on with each other. The bigger one does like to show its authority
>>>every so by gently chasing the smaller two, otherwise they enjoy
>>>swimming together. In my 24 gallon tank the three SAE hate each other
>>>with a vengeance. Last week, one shot through a tiny hole at the back of
>>>the tank and found it dried up and dead on the condensation glass cover.
>>>The remaining two stay at opposite ends of the tank. Maybe its a space
>>>issue. Or maybe its a size issue. Those three were identical in size.
>>>How to choose a leader when they are all equal in strength and size?
>>>
>>>Nikki
>>
>>
>> I have 3 SAEs in a 29 gallon tank, 6 in the 75 and one in a 10 gallon
>> tank.
>>
>> I see the "glass dance" in all 3 tanks. I do see side by side
>> swimming, but I have never noticed any form of attack. I think I
>> would have noticed as one thing I prize about my communities is how
>> well they get along. I hate to see torn fins. I have a black
>> angelfish that I love dearly, but the girl often hurts herself by
>> getting caught in places she can't maneuver.
>
>She a bit clumsy?
>
One might say that. Devils go where angels fear to go! <g> My girl is
confused, never heard the saying.

I have no notion of what she is doing. Most of the day she is
"dominating" a front and center area near the bottom of the tank. She
takes short runs at another fish which merely makes a quick short move
away from her. The actions never last over a second or two. And the
other fish never take her seriously such as remaining clear. They
just give her a token run and come right back. I don't "know" many of
my fish as individuals, but she is my "Angel."

>>
>> Nikki, isn't jumping out of a tank somewhat common? I keep my tanks
>> pretty tight. I have had fish jump in the past, but did not relate it
>> to aggression. My SAEs often make a run from the bottom to the top
>> breaking the water's surface. I don't see any chasing related to the
>> journey. What about the behavior of the 3 that "hate" each other
>> leads you to call it that? I know we sometimes cannot put into words
>> how such feelings come about and I am not trying to argue their
>> behavior is not "hate", but I am curious what you see that leads to
>> that conclusion. I see lots of fish chasing each other. Often the
>> lead (victim?) will turn and become the aggressor. They never do harm
>> to one another. I take the behavior as playful.
>
>The two SAE chase each other until their stripes almost disappear and
>their gills are pumping hard. They do shoot across the aquarium when
>they are being chased but at no other time. I'm presuming this is what
>happened to the jumper. Have you seen your SAE do a run spontaneously
>with no prompting? I wonder why they'd do that.
>
>Nikki

The run is always spontaneous from what I see. Not sure if it is one
or all taking such runs as they all look the same to my eye. However,
the runs are always one individual doing the run. I have seen the one
SAE in a 10 gallon tank take the same run, but I don't recall seeing
any of the 3 in my 29 gallon ever make such runs.

One thought strikes me odd about what you are seeing, you say they
chase until the stripes almost disappear. If it was 2 fish "flashing"
I would expect the stripe to get more vivid. I wonder what they think
they are doing?

Fish can be as enigmatic as people, can't they?

dick