Flowerring aquaria plants for goldfish

[PJ]

Hi Guys,looking for advice on flowerring aquaria plants suitable for
goldfish.

I just bought a small brandy glass tank [10 liters] and i want some
flowerring plants as well as the usual... Any help gratefully received...

TIA .. PJ

[[email protected]]

goldfish need 10 gallons per fish, not 10 liters and GF eat plants.

get a betta.

"PJ" > wrote:

>Hi Guys,looking for advice on flowerring aquaria plants suitable for
>goldfish.
>
>I just bought a small brandy glass tank [10 liters] and i want some
>flowerring plants as well as the usual... Any help gratefully received...
>
>TIA .. PJ
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[PJ]

The Question again... Are there any flowerring plants thats compatible with
goldfish please??? What i mean by compatible is that the plant wont poision
them... TIA.. PJ




> wrote in message
...
> goldfish need 10 gallons per fish, not 10 liters and GF eat plants.
>
> get a betta.
>
> "PJ" > wrote:
>
>>Hi Guys,looking for advice on flowerring aquaria plants suitable for
>>goldfish.
>>
>>I just bought a small brandy glass tank [10 liters] and i want some
>>flowerring plants as well as the usual... Any help gratefully received...
>>
>>TIA .. PJ
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
> http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
> sign up:
> http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
> website.
> I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[PJ]

You must have the worlds biggest tank and only ONE fish..... check your
facts before making a fool of yourself in NG's.....PJ





> wrote in message
...
> goldfish need 10 gallons per fish, not 10 liters and GF eat plants.
>
> get a betta.
>
> "PJ" > wrote:
>
>>Hi Guys,looking for advice on flowerring aquaria plants suitable for
>>goldfish.
>>
>>I just bought a small brandy glass tank [10 liters] and i want some
>>flowerring plants as well as the usual... Any help gratefully received...
>>
>>TIA .. PJ
>>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
> http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
> sign up:
> http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
> website.
> I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[netDenizen]

PJ wrote:
> You must have the worlds biggest tank and only ONE fish..... check your
> facts before making a fool of yourself in NG's.....PJ
>

Dr Solo is right about the water per goldfish, because adult goldfish
can be very large. Also they do eat many plants, but will leave some
tough ones alone. Check out her web page below (puregold...).

>
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>goldfish need 10 gallons per fish, not 10 liters and GF eat plants.
>>
>>get a betta.
>>
>>"PJ" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi Guys,looking for advice on flowerring aquaria plants suitable for
>>>goldfish.
>>>
>>>I just bought a small brandy glass tank [10 liters] and i want some
>>>flowerring plants as well as the usual... Any help gratefully received...
>>>
>>>TIA .. PJ
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
>>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
>>sign up:
>>http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
>>www.drsolo.com
>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
>>website.
>>I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan
>
>
>

[PJ]

ok ill accept what you say. but im buying minature goldfish and only 2 for
my 10 liter tank.

im told they'll grow to suit the feeding quantity and the size of the
bowl...im accepting that they know their buisness.. PJ





"netDenizen" > wrote in message
. ..
> PJ wrote:
>> You must have the worlds biggest tank and only ONE fish..... check your
>> facts before making a fool of yourself in NG's.....PJ
>>
>
> Dr Solo is right about the water per goldfish, because adult goldfish can
> be very large. Also they do eat many plants, but will leave some tough
> ones alone. Check out her web page below (puregold...).
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>goldfish need 10 gallons per fish, not 10 liters and GF eat plants.
>>>
>>>get a betta.
>>>
>>>"PJ" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Guys,looking for advice on flowerring aquaria plants suitable for
>>>>goldfish.
>>>>
>>>>I just bought a small brandy glass tank [10 liters] and i want some
>>>>flowerring plants as well as the usual... Any help gratefully
>>>>received...
>>>>
>>>>TIA .. PJ
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
>>>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
>>>sign up:
>>>http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
>>>www.drsolo.com
>>>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
>>>website.
>>>I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
>>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan
>>
>>
>>
>

[tenacity]

Take evreything with a grain of salt!

I have koi, golfish, comets, minnows, tetras, a cichlid, dainos, and
guppies all in a big (700 gal) pond with tons of plants, and I haven't
had them all eaten! Actually, they're growing so fast I'm having to
throw them out on my compost heap in handfulls. I used to try dividing
them, but they grew so fast that just wasn't cutting it.

Everyone said my koi and goldfish would destroy my plants, and I've
found that to be completely incorrect. I also have bettas, and while
they're pretty, they haven't a goldfish's charm. Plants and fish do
just fine together, as long as you have enough plants to keep everyone
busy.

You're wise to have faith in the fish - a few million years of
evolution have left fish - especially goldfish - with plenty of
gumption. 10L is fine if you keep the water clean. A little
amonia/nitrate/nitrite/ph test kit - 20$ US - will tell you if you need
to change the water, though you can tell just by looking at it most
likely. Also, don't go crazy with chemicals - regular 1/2 water changes
should be enough to keep things happy.

I started with anachris, cambomba, and elodea - common cheap plants at
the local fish store. It's been fine - the fich munch sometimes, but
they certainltly haven't destroyed the plants. What they did destroy,
now that I think of it, was the peace lily plant. The mondo grass
hasn't held up to the pond algae very well, but it didn't get eaten, it
just dies once the algae got going on it.



Consider adding four or five neon tetras to you goldfish tank -
they're tiny, and since they swim at the bottom of the tank, they'll be
a fun contrast to the slow mid-water goldies. when I first started, all
I could afford were dollar-store glass coffee pots. I had a golfish or
tetra or a few mini platys or neons in each one - I had 6 of them in
my room. It was great! They were all different, and you know a coffe
pot is a LOT less than 10 gal.

When I got bored of the water changes I just dumped 'em in the pond,
and everybody's doing great.I think fish aren't anywhere near as
delicate as hobbyosts woud have us think. Fish have lived in big
cold/warm/dirty/murky ponds for a zillion years - they can put up with
a surprising amount.

Have FUN!

No big deal. Fish + plants + clean water = happy aquarium.

[PJ]

TY Tenacity for your kind advice...
one question tho... I thought Neons needed aerated water to survive and my
tank has no air or water pumps...
Can they survive like GF under these conditions??? If so ill go buy some
Neons too... TIA.. PJ




"tenacity" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Take evreything with a grain of salt!
>
> I have koi, golfish, comets, minnows, tetras, a cichlid, dainos, and
> guppies all in a big (700 gal) pond with tons of plants, and I haven't
> had them all eaten! Actually, they're growing so fast I'm having to
> throw them out on my compost heap in handfulls. I used to try dividing
> them, but they grew so fast that just wasn't cutting it.
>
> Everyone said my koi and goldfish would destroy my plants, and I've
> found that to be completely incorrect. I also have bettas, and while
> they're pretty, they haven't a goldfish's charm. Plants and fish do
> just fine together, as long as you have enough plants to keep everyone
> busy.
>
> You're wise to have faith in the fish - a few million years of
> evolution have left fish - especially goldfish - with plenty of
> gumption. 10L is fine if you keep the water clean. A little
> amonia/nitrate/nitrite/ph test kit - 20$ US - will tell you if you need
> to change the water, though you can tell just by looking at it most
> likely. Also, don't go crazy with chemicals - regular 1/2 water changes
> should be enough to keep things happy.
>
> I started with anachris, cambomba, and elodea - common cheap plants at
> the local fish store. It's been fine - the fich munch sometimes, but
> they certainltly haven't destroyed the plants. What they did destroy,
> now that I think of it, was the peace lily plant. The mondo grass
> hasn't held up to the pond algae very well, but it didn't get eaten, it
> just dies once the algae got going on it.
>
>
>
> Consider adding four or five neon tetras to you goldfish tank -
> they're tiny, and since they swim at the bottom of the tank, they'll be
> a fun contrast to the slow mid-water goldies. when I first started, all
> I could afford were dollar-store glass coffee pots. I had a golfish or
> tetra or a few mini platys or neons in each one - I had 6 of them in
> my room. It was great! They were all different, and you know a coffe
> pot is a LOT less than 10 gal.
>
> When I got bored of the water changes I just dumped 'em in the pond,
> and everybody's doing great.I think fish aren't anywhere near as
> delicate as hobbyosts woud have us think. Fish have lived in big
> cold/warm/dirty/murky ponds for a zillion years - they can put up with
> a surprising amount.
>
> Have FUN!
>
> No big deal. Fish + plants + clean water = happy aquarium.
>

[netDenizen]

PJ wrote:
> TY Tenacity for your kind advice...
> one question tho... I thought Neons needed aerated water to survive and my
> tank has no air or water pumps...
> Can they survive like GF under these conditions??? If so ill go buy some
> Neons too... TIA.. PJ
>
>

Neon tetras will make delicious snacks for large, adult goldfish.

Good luck with your new hobby. It sounds like your fish may at least
receive more care and consideration than goldfish in a bowl, which often
don't live long due to water conditions.

[[email protected]]

an outdoor pond is quite a bit different than in indoor tank. and you had it stocked
with little fish which is GF and koi food. outdoor ponds grow lots of little
critters that eat the smaller critters that eat the bacteria live on the plants. but
GF and koi will happily eat smaller fish too, which are a rich protein source for
them. when GF are nibbling on the green plants, they are actually trying to strip
off the itty bitty critters. I feed my koi a very nutritious high protein food and
they leave my water lily alone. when I dont feed em I find bits of my plant floating
around.
so as long as there is food in the pond for the GF and koi, they will leave the
plants alone. this is not possible in small indoor tanks with GF. hundreds of
people with GF have discussed this before and there are a couple plants will hold up
in a tank.
it is true a few people have been able to keep the occasional GF in a GF "bowl" with
no aeration or filtration. but it is cruel. most GF die with those conditions. the
ammonia cooks their gills. it is like sitting in a closet breathing ammonia fumes.
like that one miner survived when everyone else died.
just because you were able to keep a GF alive under those conditions does not mean
you should advocate it for others. Ingrid

"tenacity" > wrote:
>I have koi, golfish, comets, minnows, tetras, a cichlid, dainos, and
>guppies all in a big (700 gal) pond with tons of plants,

>You're wise to have faith in the fish - a few million years of
>evolution have left fish - especially goldfish - with plenty of
>gumption. 10L is fine if you keep the water clean. A little
>amonia/nitrate/nitrite/ph test kit - 20$ US - will tell you if you need
>to change the water, though you can tell just by looking at it most
>likely. Also, don't go crazy with chemicals - regular 1/2 water changes
>should be enough to keep things happy.
>
>I started with anachris, cambomba, and elodea - common cheap plants at
>the local fish store. It's been fine - the fich munch sometimes, but
>they certainltly haven't destroyed the plants. What they did destroy,
>now that I think of it, was the peace lily plant. The mondo grass
>hasn't held up to the pond algae very well, but it didn't get eaten, it
>just dies once the algae got going on it.
>
>
>
>Consider adding four or five neon tetras to you goldfish tank -
>they're tiny, and since they swim at the bottom of the tank, they'll be
>a fun contrast to the slow mid-water goldies. when I first started, all
>I could afford were dollar-store glass coffee pots. I had a golfish or
>tetra or a few mini platys or neons in each one - I had 6 of them in
>my room. It was great! They were all different, and you know a coffe
>pot is a LOT less than 10 gal.
>
>When I got bored of the water changes I just dumped 'em in the pond,
>and everybody's doing great.I think fish aren't anywhere near as
>delicate as hobbyosts woud have us think. Fish have lived in big
>cold/warm/dirty/murky ponds for a zillion years - they can put up with
>a surprising amount.
>
>Have FUN!
>
>No big deal. Fish + plants + clean water = happy aquarium.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Koi-Lo]

"PJ" > wrote in message
u...
> ok ill accept what you say. but im buying minature goldfish and only 2 for
> my 10 liter tank.

There is no such thing as a "miniature" goldfish. If healthy they ALL get
large. GF are not small fish. And adult can reach as much as 12" in
length, including an average tail. Each adult GF eventually needs at least
20g of water. A pair would need at the least a 40gLong tank.

> im told they'll grow to suit the feeding quantity and the size of the
> bowl...im accepting that they know their buisness.. PJ

Told by who? Few "know their business" as they receive almost no training
before a fishnet is put in their hands. This is not true and starving them
to keep them stunted, small and emaciated is cruel. It will eventually kill
for deform them. Please don't listen to clerks who work in these stores
because the advice they often give is wrong. Also, they're there to SELL
you fish and fish supplies such as expensive medications and
anti-parasitics. Please use Google and go over some websites that describe
GF care and feeding.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Koi-Lo]

"PJ" > wrote in message
u...
> The Question again... Are there any flowerring plants thats compatible
> with goldfish please??? What i mean by compatible is that the plant wont
> poision them... TIA.. PJ
=======================
Do you mean an *underwater* flowering plant?
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[[email protected]]

this 10 liter or 2.6 gallon container has no filter, no aeration. and there are no
"miniature" GF. this is not going to be proper care for a living GF. Ingrid

netDenizen > wrote:
>Neon tetras will make delicious snacks for large, adult goldfish.
>
>Good luck with your new hobby. It sounds like your fish may at least
>receive more care and consideration than goldfish in a bowl, which often
>don't live long due to water conditions.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Koi-Lo]

"netDenizen" > wrote in message
. ..
> Good luck with your new hobby. It sounds like your fish may at least
> receive more care and consideration than goldfish in a bowl, which often
> don't live long due to water conditions.
=====================
What she's putting them in is no better than a bowl. She may as well use a
bowl. Without aeration how long will two GF live in less than 3g of water?
How will she cycle this tiny tank?
--
Koi-Lo....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[netDenizen]

wrote:
> this 10 liter or 2.6 gallon container has no filter, no aeration. and there are no
> "miniature" GF. this is not going to be proper care for a living GF. Ingrid
>
> netDenizen > wrote:
>
>>Neon tetras will make delicious snacks for large, adult goldfish.
>>
>>Good luck with your new hobby. It sounds like your fish may at least
>>receive more care and consideration than goldfish in a bowl, which often
>>don't live long due to water conditions.
>
>

Yes you're right - the fish don't have a chance. My care and
consideration comment was inspired by the o.p. being concerned enough to
ask questions on usenet. The 10 litres throws me off - sounds like 10
gallons, and virtually no-one buys an aquarium without a filter these
days. The o.p. will learn the hard way, the same as many of us did.

W.R.T. the question of flowering plants that can coexist with goldfish,
Anubias come to mind. It does all right with my goldfish and flowers
from time to time. The o.p. may not be interested in flowers that look
like little green lumps, however - here's a link which shows the
flowering plant: http://www.tropica.dk/productcard_1.asp?id=101 .

[PJ]

Yes,underwater flowerring plant that wont poison GF.. TY.. PJ



"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "PJ" > wrote in message
> u...
>> The Question again... Are there any flowerring plants thats compatible
>> with goldfish please??? What i mean by compatible is that the plant wont
>> poision them... TIA.. PJ
> =======================
> Do you mean an *underwater* flowering plant?
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>
>
>
>

[PJ]

TY,the plant looks great
ill get some today... PJ



"netDenizen" > wrote in message
.. .
> wrote:
>> this 10 liter or 2.6 gallon container has no filter, no aeration. and
>> there are no
>> "miniature" GF. this is not going to be proper care for a living GF.
>> Ingrid
>>
>> netDenizen > wrote:
>>
>>>Neon tetras will make delicious snacks for large, adult goldfish.
>>>
>>>Good luck with your new hobby. It sounds like your fish may at least
>>>receive more care and consideration than goldfish in a bowl, which often
>>>don't live long due to water conditions.
>>
>>
>
> Yes you're right - the fish don't have a chance. My care and consideration
> comment was inspired by the o.p. being concerned enough to ask questions
> on usenet. The 10 litres throws me off - sounds like 10 gallons, and
> virtually no-one buys an aquarium without a filter these days. The o.p.
> will learn the hard way, the same as many of us did.
>
> W.R.T. the question of flowering plants that can coexist with goldfish,
> Anubias come to mind. It does all right with my goldfish and flowers from
> time to time. The o.p. may not be interested in flowers that look like
> little green lumps, however - here's a link which shows the flowering
> plant: http://www.tropica.dk/productcard_1.asp?id=101 .

[PJ]

How do i keep Ammonia down to an acceptable level ??? TIA.. PJ



> wrote in message
...
> an outdoor pond is quite a bit different than in indoor tank. and you had
> it stocked
> with little fish which is GF and koi food. outdoor ponds grow lots of
> little
> critters that eat the smaller critters that eat the bacteria live on the
> plants. but
> GF and koi will happily eat smaller fish too, which are a rich protein
> source for
> them. when GF are nibbling on the green plants, they are actually trying
> to strip
> off the itty bitty critters. I feed my koi a very nutritious high protein
> food and
> they leave my water lily alone. when I dont feed em I find bits of my
> plant floating
> around.
> so as long as there is food in the pond for the GF and koi, they will
> leave the
> plants alone. this is not possible in small indoor tanks with GF.
> hundreds of
> people with GF have discussed this before and there are a couple plants
> will hold up
> in a tank.
> it is true a few people have been able to keep the occasional GF in a GF
> "bowl" with
> no aeration or filtration. but it is cruel. most GF die with those
> conditions. the
> ammonia cooks their gills. it is like sitting in a closet breathing
> ammonia fumes.
> like that one miner survived when everyone else died.
> just because you were able to keep a GF alive under those conditions does
> not mean
> you should advocate it for others. Ingrid
>
> "tenacity" > wrote:
>>I have koi, golfish, comets, minnows, tetras, a cichlid, dainos, and
>>guppies all in a big (700 gal) pond with tons of plants,
>
>>You're wise to have faith in the fish - a few million years of
>>evolution have left fish - especially goldfish - with plenty of
>>gumption. 10L is fine if you keep the water clean. A little
>>amonia/nitrate/nitrite/ph test kit - 20$ US - will tell you if you need
>>to change the water, though you can tell just by looking at it most
>>likely. Also, don't go crazy with chemicals - regular 1/2 water changes
>>should be enough to keep things happy.
>>
>>I started with anachris, cambomba, and elodea - common cheap plants at
>>the local fish store. It's been fine - the fich munch sometimes, but
>>they certainltly haven't destroyed the plants. What they did destroy,
>>now that I think of it, was the peace lily plant. The mondo grass
>>hasn't held up to the pond algae very well, but it didn't get eaten, it
>>just dies once the algae got going on it.
>>
>>
>>
>>Consider adding four or five neon tetras to you goldfish tank -
>>they're tiny, and since they swim at the bottom of the tank, they'll be
>>a fun contrast to the slow mid-water goldies. when I first started, all
>>I could afford were dollar-store glass coffee pots. I had a golfish or
>>tetra or a few mini platys or neons in each one - I had 6 of them in
>>my room. It was great! They were all different, and you know a coffe
>>pot is a LOT less than 10 gal.
>>
>>When I got bored of the water changes I just dumped 'em in the pond,
>>and everybody's doing great.I think fish aren't anywhere near as
>>delicate as hobbyosts woud have us think. Fish have lived in big
>>cold/warm/dirty/murky ponds for a zillion years - they can put up with
>>a surprising amount.
>>
>>Have FUN!
>>
>>No big deal. Fish + plants + clean water = happy aquarium.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
> http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
> sign up:
> http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
> website.
> I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Koi-Lo]

"PJ" > wrote in message
u...
> Yes,underwater flowerring plant that wont poison GF.. TY.. PJ
==========
That's what I thought, but I don't know of any. Your tank may be a little
small for a fish plus a plant. Sorry I couldn't help more......
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Fri, 12 May 2006 14:42:33 +1000, "PJ" >
wrote:

>How do i keep Ammonia down to an acceptable level ??? TIA.. PJ

- do not overstock
- for GF this usually means 10-30 gal per adult GF. The more water
the better.
- GF need far more water than common thin-bodied tropicals. Just
forget the 1" fish per 1 gal water rule your sales clerk may have been
told during their brief "training."


- Get the best filter you can buy.
- biological filtration is most important followed by mechanical.
Chemical filtration is mostly optional.
- wet-dry type are optimal. Others can be fine as long as
there is a lot of surface area and no super-thick media.
- If you do use ammonia absorbing chips in the filter like ammo-carb
do not use salt. This will recharge the chips and release ammonia.
(It's common practice to use salt, esp when there are water quality
problems.)


- establish a biological Nitrogen Cycle.
- Google Nitrogen Cycle, Aquarium Cycle, fishless cycle.
- water changes are important. But to use water changes to control
ammonia means you are flouting some or all of these last three points.
So it will be inevitable that the GF will be exposed to ammonia spikes
despite best efforts. Given GF waste output, relying on water changes
is a major PITA.
- Bio-spira is a good product to establish an instant cycle.
- But If it is old or hasn't been handled properly it can be
worthless. These are live, delicate, slow-growing bacteria.
- you don't really want to use it in planted aquariums as most
plants like to have a chance to get at some ammonia.
- plants will consume ammonia, but in all but the most extreme
situations cannot possibly be the sole ammonia control.


When you use a standard test kit you should show 0 Ammonia, 0
Nitrites, <50ppm Nitrates (lower is better). These parameters
indicate the status of the nitrogen cycle (biological filtration) via
levels of toxic compounds from fish waste & rotting food.

Products like Ammo-lock 2 or Amquel can detoxify ammonia at lower
levels. They can be helpful. Amquel is better.

Maybe now it's clearer where some of the other posters are coming
from?

[PJ]

Thats fine.. I Appreciate your help. TY... PJ



"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "PJ" > wrote in message
> u...
>> Yes,underwater flowerring plant that wont poison GF.. TY.. PJ
> ==========
> That's what I thought, but I don't know of any. Your tank may be a little
> small for a fish plus a plant. Sorry I couldn't help more......
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>
>
>
>

[PJ]

TY,i clearly have lots to learn.. Cheers.. PJ




"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 12 May 2006 14:42:33 +1000, "PJ" >
> wrote:
>
>>How do i keep Ammonia down to an acceptable level ??? TIA.. PJ
>
> - do not overstock
> - for GF this usually means 10-30 gal per adult GF. The more water
> the better.
> - GF need far more water than common thin-bodied tropicals. Just
> forget the 1" fish per 1 gal water rule your sales clerk may have been
> told during their brief "training."
>
>
> - Get the best filter you can buy.
> - biological filtration is most important followed by mechanical.
> Chemical filtration is mostly optional.
> - wet-dry type are optimal. Others can be fine as long as
> there is a lot of surface area and no super-thick media.
> - If you do use ammonia absorbing chips in the filter like ammo-carb
> do not use salt. This will recharge the chips and release ammonia.
> (It's common practice to use salt, esp when there are water quality
> problems.)
>
>
> - establish a biological Nitrogen Cycle.
> - Google Nitrogen Cycle, Aquarium Cycle, fishless cycle.
> - water changes are important. But to use water changes to control
> ammonia means you are flouting some or all of these last three points.
> So it will be inevitable that the GF will be exposed to ammonia spikes
> despite best efforts. Given GF waste output, relying on water changes
> is a major PITA.
> - Bio-spira is a good product to establish an instant cycle.
> - But If it is old or hasn't been handled properly it can be
> worthless. These are live, delicate, slow-growing bacteria.
> - you don't really want to use it in planted aquariums as most
> plants like to have a chance to get at some ammonia.
> - plants will consume ammonia, but in all but the most extreme
> situations cannot possibly be the sole ammonia control.
>
>
> When you use a standard test kit you should show 0 Ammonia, 0
> Nitrites, <50ppm Nitrates (lower is better). These parameters
> indicate the status of the nitrogen cycle (biological filtration) via
> levels of toxic compounds from fish waste & rotting food.
>
> Products like Ammo-lock 2 or Amquel can detoxify ammonia at lower
> levels. They can be helpful. Amquel is better.
>
> Maybe now it's clearer where some of the other posters are coming
> from?

[Koi-Lo]

"PJ" > wrote in message
...
> TY,i clearly have lots to learn.. Cheers.. PJ
>
===================
Since your tank is small and wont be filtered or aerated you may want to
consider a Betta. They're beautiful fish and they stay small. You would
only have to clean the tank about once a week.
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[tenacity]

I changed the water in my tanks often, and had some anachris and elodea
in there too. That probably gave them what they needed. In a 10 gal, if
you don't have apump or filter, you will probably need some water
plants to oxygenate the water. But a little aquarium pump/filter is
actually really cheap.

[tenacity]

That's a good point. I tested my water for ammonia, but since this
person doesn't have a pump or filter, he probably doesn't have a
chemistry kit either. I wrote him back about that - thanks for the
suggestion.

In a small bowl the ammonia buildup was nonexistant for about 2 weeks,
but then overnight almost to the day of the 15th day I saw a big spike,
so I had to change the water every 14 days. It was a bit of a pain in
the ass. Hopefully this person can learn to track his ammonia content
and accomodate it with water changes.

Do plants affect water chemistry AND o2, or just o2? I always had
plants in all my tanks - big or small - so I never had a control group
to test.

[tenacity]

This person has some great advice. Obviously, most people here have had
various ways of keeping fish - tiny bowls, medium, large, ponds,
bettas, etc. So we'll all give slightly different advice. But the
science of pond/water ecology is the same no matter what, and with
these principles of biology and chemistry you'll have a great aquarium.

[tenacity]

I read that bettas have special gills that require surface air to
breathe - but I din't know if that was true or not.

My bettas have been the easiest fish to keep.

[tenacity]

That's true - my small goldfish haven't eaten them, but my big outdoor
koi will sort of lazily try. So far my count has remained the same, but
nonetheless I'm glad those little guys are so fast.

[Koi-Lo]

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.

"tenacity" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I read that bettas have special gills that require surface air to
> breathe - but I din't know if that was true or not.
>
> My bettas have been the easiest fish to keep.
========================
They breath through their mouth and gills like other fish but also have an
air-sack that acts like a kind of a lung. That's why they do so well in
tanks that are not aerated.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Koi-Lo]

*NOTE: There are two Koi-Lo's on this NG*

"tenacity" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Do plants affect water chemistry AND o2, or just o2? I always had
> plants in all my tanks - big or small - so I never had a control group
> to test.
===============
Hi! If you don't include the message you're replying to in your posts,
many of us have no idea who that person is since we're not using Google.
Yes, plants will help keep down the nutrient load in a tank, the load that
feeds algae.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at:
http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Jolly Fisherman]

On 12 May 2006 10:07:43 -0700, "tenacity" >
wrote:

>That's a good point. I tested my water for ammonia, but since this
>person doesn't have a pump or filter, he probably doesn't have a
>chemistry kit either. I wrote him back about that - thanks for the
>suggestion.

Most ppl here recommend not keeping a GF that way. Lots of water & a
filter are a requirement for healthy long-lived fish if you don't want
to do daily large water changes, or constant trickle water exchange.

>In a small bowl the ammonia buildup was nonexistant for about 2 weeks,
>but then overnight almost to the day of the 15th day I saw a big spike,

Will all respect I don't buy that and wonder if there is something
wrong with the test kit or methodology. From experience I can tell
you that not very big GF on minimal food can raise ammonia to toxic
levels in even 5 or 10 gal containers in a day or 2 or even less.
Furthermore it tends to never be 0ppm ammonia for 2 weeks then spike
to a huge concentration on day 15 unless something extreme happened
like a nuked biological filter & simultaneously a huge water change.

>so I had to change the water every 14 days. It was a bit of a pain in
>the ass. Hopefully this person can learn to track his ammonia content
>and accomodate it with water changes.

Water changes every 2 weeks is not unreasonable. Everyone has a
different opinion & regimen, but in general smaller water changes
every week or two seems to be a good & reasonable practice for an
established, appropriate tank.

When I had GF in a small bowel as a child the water appeared even to
the naked eye to need a 100% change every day or two. Even then I was
usually lucky to get a few good months out of them. As an adult I
don't want to be bothered with all that. I like the idea of big,
healthy, long-lived ornamental fish without a ton of mess or fuss.

>Do plants affect water chemistry AND o2, or just o2? I always had
>plants in all my tanks - big or small - so I never had a control group
>to test.

Plants will absorb some of the toxins from fish waste and rotting
food. But only in the most extreme & well planned scenarios can they
truly balance the output of fish. Plants absorb CO2 & release O2 when
they are photosynthesizing. At night they consume O2 and release CO2.
While changes in dissolved gasses change PH, AFAIK normally what
affects PH & hardness most dramatically are artificial means to inject
CO2. Whatever changes the plants make are smaller and gradual so as
to not stress fish & be of concern.

[Jolly Fisherman]

On 12 May 2006 10:18:50 -0700, "tenacity" >
wrote:

>I read that bettas have special gills that require surface air to
>breathe - but I din't know if that was true or not.

basically yes

>My bettas have been the easiest fish to keep.

They are indeed hardy fish that are easy to keep relative to other
fish.

IMHO they are kind of the "other" GF in that their "easiness" and
meager requirements are frequently overstated. Like they do much
better in tropical temperatures, in actual tanks with a lot of plants
(as opposed to tiny containers with a lucky bamboo sticking out) and
often foul up the water in small containers in less time than a week-
even with meager feeding.

Don't get me wrong, though, they are easy. Significantly easier &
cheaper to own than GF & koi for example.

[Jolly Fisherman]

On 12 May 2006 10:18:50 -0700, "tenacity" >
wrote:

>I read that bettas have special gills that require surface air to
>breathe - but I din't know if that was true or not.

You're referring to how the "labyrinth organ" works
http://www.labyrinthfish.info/lf/index.cfm
http://faq.thekrib.com/fish-popular.html#Anabantids
http://en.mimi.hu/aquarium/labyrinth_organ.html

[PJ]

Ive got Elodea and water lillies [thats what they look like to me]... what
is Anachris please and is it good for GF. The fish i have are less than 1"
long,i was told they grow to the tank size... have i been ill advised please
? TY... PJ




"tenacity" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I changed the water in my tanks often, and had some anachris and elodea
> in there too. That probably gave them what they needed. In a 10 gal, if
> you don't have apump or filter, you will probably need some water
> plants to oxygenate the water. But a little aquarium pump/filter is
> actually really cheap.
>

[PJ]

I got my information from the pet shop dealer... im buying a testkit
today... PJ



"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "PJ" > wrote in message
> u...
>> ok ill accept what you say. but im buying minature goldfish and only 2
>> for my 10 liter tank.
>
> There is no such thing as a "miniature" goldfish. If healthy they ALL get
> large. GF are not small fish. And adult can reach as much as 12" in
> length, including an average tail. Each adult GF eventually needs at
> least 20g of water. A pair would need at the least a 40gLong tank.
>
>> im told they'll grow to suit the feeding quantity and the size of the
>> bowl...im accepting that they know their buisness.. PJ
>
> Told by who? Few "know their business" as they receive almost no training
> before a fishnet is put in their hands. This is not true and starving
> them to keep them stunted, small and emaciated is cruel. It will
> eventually kill for deform them. Please don't listen to clerks who work
> in these stores because the advice they often give is wrong. Also,
> they're there to SELL you fish and fish supplies such as expensive
> medications and anti-parasitics. Please use Google and go over some
> websites that describe GF care and feeding.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>
>
>
>

[PJ]

Ive never heard of Bettas. But are they compatible with GF ??? and,will they
overcrowd the tank as ive 2 GF [1" Long] GF already in the bowl ???

im buying a quality test kit today,while im there ill ask to see Bettas...im
interrested to see what they look like..
Cheers.. PJ




"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
>
> "PJ" > wrote in message
> ...
>> TY,i clearly have lots to learn.. Cheers.. PJ
>>
> ===================
> Since your tank is small and wont be filtered or aerated you may want to
> consider a Betta. They're beautiful fish and they stay small. You would
> only have to clean the tank about once a week.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Aquariums since 1952.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Aquarium FAQ are at:
> http://faq.thekrib.com/
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>
>
>
>

[PJ]

The Only Bettas theyre aware of are Fighting fish. The Females thereof are
placid enough to live together but not so the males... What are the Bettas
youre referring to please ??

PJ






"PJ" > wrote in message
u...
> Ive never heard of Bettas. But are they compatible with GF ??? and,will
> they overcrowd the tank as ive 2 GF [1" Long] GF already in the bowl ???
>
> im buying a quality test kit today,while im there ill ask to see
> Bettas...im interrested to see what they look like..
> Cheers.. PJ
>
>
>
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "PJ" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> TY,i clearly have lots to learn.. Cheers.. PJ
>>>
>> ===================
>> Since your tank is small and wont be filtered or aerated you may want to
>> consider a Betta. They're beautiful fish and they stay small. You would
>> only have to clean the tank about once a week.
>> --
>> Koi-Lo....
>> Aquariums since 1952.
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>> Aquarium FAQ are at:
>> http://faq.thekrib.com/
>> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 13:05:47 +1000, "PJ" >
wrote:

>The Only Bettas theyre aware of are Fighting fish. The Females thereof are
>placid enough to live together but not so the males... What are the Bettas
>youre referring to please ??
>
>PJ

No. Not to add the Betta to the GF bowl to make a "community" in that
bowl. That would make the problems we've been explaining ad nauseam
worse.

As I understand Koi-lo, she's telling you that if all you can afford
is a simple bowl without aeration or filtration, get rid of the GF and
buy a single male beta (Japanese fighting fish) _instead_.


While I agree this is a more tenable solution (indeed I've made that
recommendation as well to some) - personally I find it exceptionally
cruel and completely devoid of any aesthetic pleasure to keep and
watch any fish in a tiny bowl. It's self defeating because problems
can develop too quickly, fish are usually surviving for a while rather
than thriving, and the fishes' movements and behavior are unnatural
(yes bettas too). Adding a live plant or two doesn't mask that
reality for me. Even a large home tank is still puny and unnatural
relative to natural habitats. I do understand that for some GF &
bowls are cheap, simple, disposable & decorative and that seems like
all plusses. But I think that constitutes a minority among regulars
in this or similar groups feel that way (although most probably have
no problem with bettas in bowls).

[PJ]

we have a severe shortage of space here. therefore the 10 liter brandy
glass tank,otherwise id have the bigger stuff like everyone else has.

Surviving rather than thriving??? well i dont want too many in the tank,ive
got 2 only and they look happy to me ,they certainly do NOT look stressed or
gasping for air at the surface etc etc. If ever they do start surface
hanging etc ill add aeration

as for plants i have elodea and banana lilly to keep the tank balanced.

these fish are 1" long and really look healthy as far as i can see.

Cheers.. PJ






"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 13:05:47 +1000, "PJ" >
> wrote:
>
>>The Only Bettas theyre aware of are Fighting fish. The Females thereof
>>are
>>placid enough to live together but not so the males... What are the
>>Bettas
>>youre referring to please ??
>>
>>PJ
>
> No. Not to add the Betta to the GF bowl to make a "community" in that
> bowl. That would make the problems we've been explaining ad nauseam
> worse.
>
> As I understand Koi-lo, she's telling you that if all you can afford
> is a simple bowl without aeration or filtration, get rid of the GF and
> buy a single male beta (Japanese fighting fish) _instead_.
>
>
> While I agree this is a more tenable solution (indeed I've made that
> recommendation as well to some) - personally I find it exceptionally
> cruel and completely devoid of any aesthetic pleasure to keep and
> watch any fish in a tiny bowl. It's self defeating because problems
> can develop too quickly, fish are usually surviving for a while rather
> than thriving, and the fishes' movements and behavior are unnatural
> (yes bettas too). Adding a live plant or two doesn't mask that
> reality for me. Even a large home tank is still puny and unnatural
> relative to natural habitats. I do understand that for some GF &
> bowls are cheap, simple, disposable & decorative and that seems like
> all plusses. But I think that constitutes a minority among regulars
> in this or similar groups feel that way (although most probably have
> no problem with bettas in bowls).

[Koi-Lo]

Pecking at the keyboard with two fingers <PJ> at >
turned out this gem:

> Ive never heard of Bettas. But are they compatible with GF ???
> and,will they overcrowd the tank as ive 2 GF [1" Long] GF already in
> the bowl ???

You need to find a proper home for the goldfish before you buy a betta.
Each GF needs a minimum of 10g of water to remain healthy and grow normally.
You should have been told that at the store. Healthy GF can reach a foot in
length.

> im buying a quality test kit today,while im there ill ask to see
> Bettas...im interrested to see what they look like..
> Cheers.. PJ
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Koi-Lo]

Pecking at the keyboard with two fingers <PJ> at >
turned out this gem:

> The Only Bettas theyre aware of are Fighting fish. The Females
> thereof are placid enough to live together but not so the males... What
> are the Bettas youre referring to please ??
=====================
Right. They're called Siamese fighting fish by some people. But before you
buy one find a home for your GF or trade them for the male Betta.
--
Koi-Lo....
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Koi-Lo]

Pecking at the keyboard with two fingers <PJ> at >
turned out this gem:

> I got my information from the pet shop dealer... im buying a testkit
> today... PJ
==================
Have you Googled "Goldfish+Care" yet? You really need to buy a 20g tank if
you plan to keep the two GF.
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[PJ]

test



"PJ" > wrote in message
u...
> Yes,underwater flowerring plant that wont poison GF.. TY.. PJ
>
>
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "PJ" > wrote in message
>> u...
>>> The Question again... Are there any flowerring plants thats compatible
>>> with goldfish please??? What i mean by compatible is that the plant
>>> wont poision them... TIA.. PJ
>> =======================
>> Do you mean an *underwater* flowering plant?
>> --
>> Koi-Lo....
>> Aquariums since 1952.
>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
>> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[PJ]

Now Now,dont be rude . You Chose to respond. i NEVER asked Koi to
respond..... ALSO my original question was about flowerring plants..

if youre not happy then dont reply..... get real... PJ





"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 10:18:28 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>>><>Pecking at the keyboard with two fingers <PJ> at
>
>>><>turned out this gem:
>>><>
>>><>> Ive never heard of Bettas. But are they compatible with GF ???
>>><>> and,will they overcrowd the tank as ive 2 GF [1" Long] GF already in
>>><>> the bowl ???
>>><>
> You need to start buying some bloody freaking books dude, what do you
> think I am a bloody free for all encylcopedia. start to look things
> up for your own bloody self and quit being so god damed lazy. I have
> places to go and people to **** off and fish to kill..now be gone with
> you to the book store and spend some of that moldy money. Now get on
> your knees and pay h9meage to me you peckerhead! Really youy need to
> staryt a group for you clowns that live upside down......so I do not
> get hollered at by Gill ****man for know wknoing what flipping bloody
> stores are in different countries.......afterall I am a dumb ased
> sheila ya know.
> The one and only CArol Adamo Gulley, known as Koi Lo to her freinds!
>
> ==============================================
> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
> "The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
> given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
> my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
> only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion...
> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[PJ]

Now Now,dont be rude. i could be just as rude back... i NEVER ask you to
reply to my posts,YOU chose to do that for your own needs and personal
gratifacation...

Remember, my original question was and remains,about flowerring plants that
wont kill GF !!!!!

if the posts upsets you then dont reply... bye Koi

Cheers.. PJ




"Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 10:18:28 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>>><>Pecking at the keyboard with two fingers <PJ> at
>
>>><>turned out this gem:
>>><>
>>><>> Ive never heard of Bettas. But are they compatible with GF ???
>>><>> and,will they overcrowd the tank as ive 2 GF [1" Long] GF already in
>>><>> the bowl ???
>>><>
> You need to start buying some bloody freaking books dude, what do you
> think I am a bloody free for all encylcopedia. start to look things
> up for your own bloody self and quit being so god damed lazy. I have
> places to go and people to **** off and fish to kill..now be gone with
> you to the book store and spend some of that moldy money. Now get on
> your knees and pay h9meage to me you peckerhead! Really youy need to
> staryt a group for you clowns that live upside down......so I do not
> get hollered at by Gill ****man for know wknoing what flipping bloody
> stores are in different countries.......afterall I am a dumb ased
> sheila ya know.
> The one and only CArol Adamo Gulley, known as Koi Lo to her freinds!
>
> ==============================================
> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
> "The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
> given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
> my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
> only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion...
> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>

[PJ]

My posting is acting up... excuse the double posts...PJ



"PJ" > wrote in message
u...
> Now Now,dont be rude. i could be just as rude back... i NEVER ask you to
> reply to my posts,YOU chose to do that for your own needs and personal
> gratifacation...
>
> Remember, my original question was and remains,about flowerring plants
> that
> wont kill GF !!!!!
>
> if the posts upsets you then dont reply... bye Koi
>
> Cheers.. PJ
>
>
>
>
> "Koi-Lo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 13 May 2006 10:18:28 -0500, "Koi-Lo" > wrote:
>>>><>Pecking at the keyboard with two fingers <PJ> at
>
>>>><>turned out this gem:
>>>><>
>>>><>> Ive never heard of Bettas. But are they compatible with GF ???
>>>><>> and,will they overcrowd the tank as ive 2 GF [1" Long] GF already in
>>>><>> the bowl ???
>>>><>
>> You need to start buying some bloody freaking books dude, what do you
>> think I am a bloody free for all encylcopedia. start to look things
>> up for your own bloody self and quit being so god damed lazy. I have
>> places to go and people to **** off and fish to kill..now be gone with
>> you to the book store and spend some of that moldy money. Now get on
>> your knees and pay h9meage to me you peckerhead! Really youy need to
>> staryt a group for you clowns that live upside down......so I do not
>> get hollered at by Gill ****man for know wknoing what flipping bloody
>> stores are in different countries.......afterall I am a dumb ased
>> sheila ya know.
>> The one and only CArol Adamo Gulley, known as Koi Lo to her freinds!
>>
>> ==============================================
>> Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
>> "The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
>> given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
>> my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
>> only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion...
>> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~~~~ }<(((((o>
>
>
>

[Jolly Fisherman]

On Sat, 13 May 2006 18:52:10 +1000, "PJ" >
wrote:

>we have a severe shortage of space here. therefore the 10 liter brandy
>glass tank,otherwise id have the bigger stuff like everyone else has.

A 20g high footprint is 24x12". Not really that much more space IMHO.

>Surviving rather than thriving??? well i dont want too many in the tank,ive
>got 2 only and they look happy to me ,they certainly do NOT look stressed or
>gasping for air at the surface etc etc. If ever they do start surface
>hanging etc ill add aeration

GF are hardy & energetic. They can look good in marginal or toxic
water for some time. If problems reach a certain level or duration
they suddenly become ill as you are describing. By then it's often
too late. But that doesn't mean that over the long term marginal
water conditions don't detract from their overall health, life span,
or growth. If they survive marginal conditions for a long time they
are stunted in all ways. They don't need to look like they're
severely sick or going to die or suffocate for that. The other
problem is that small containers mean that chemistry, temperature, and
toxic chemicals can change too quickly & extremely with little warning
to you. Just having your airconditioner turn on & off in the summer
can be a probelm with that size bowl.

In fact I bought a GF a little while back that looked extremely strong
in the store tank. It suddenly crashed in the bag & when I brought it
home I saw it's body & fins were burnt from the store water
conditions. The trip home pushed it over the edge & suddenly from
looking so strong it was now near death for several days. After
intensive nursing it is OK but the gills are still extremely sensitive
and his growth will likely be stunted. Ill-looking behavior often
comes on suddenly.

>as for plants i have elodea and banana lilly to keep the tank balanced.

you need _lots_ of plants to completely balance fish- so much that 2
GF would have no room to swim in a 10 l. / 2.64 gal container.

>these fish are 1" long

Don't be fooled by 2' of GF. That's something like >6" of thin bodied
tropical fish. They also should be growing & spawning later on if
healthy.

>and really look healthy as far as i can see.

I'm sure they are not sick right now. Maybe they're stay in that
state for a while. Eventually, if they're "healthy", they'll grow. As
that happens the water conditions will decline & your work will
increase. It'll be hard to estimate changes.

Even if not sick, fish also are run down coming from shipping and the
nasty water conditions in the pet shop holding tanks. I've had many
fish that when purchased "looked healthy" or at least looked normal &
not sick. Then I got them home & acclimated, fed them good food in
lots of water and lo and behold they got noticeably stronger,
energetic, started eating like total pigs, and took on better colors,
etc in the first weeks.

In other words there are different degrees or levels of health.
Haven't you ever had a month in winter when you felt kinda crummy &
run down or congested but didn't actually get a full blown cold or flu
or conversely have a summer where you felt really strong & vital. Both
periods you were healthy i.e. you were not sick. One is optimal,
another is marginal. Would you want to feel like you were getting a
flu your entire life? Would you think that was "healthy"?

Well that's basically where I'm coming from. Good luck & have fun
whether you stick with GF in a brandy bowl or not.

[PJ]

You make a lot of sense. Ill check into the 20G tanks for size of
footprint..Cheers.. PJ



"Jolly Fisherman" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 18:52:10 +1000, "PJ" >
> wrote:
>
>>we have a severe shortage of space here. therefore the 10 liter brandy
>>glass tank,otherwise id have the bigger stuff like everyone else has.
>
> A 20g high footprint is 24x12". Not really that much more space IMHO.
>
>>Surviving rather than thriving??? well i dont want too many in the
>>tank,ive
>>got 2 only and they look happy to me ,they certainly do NOT look stressed
>>or
>>gasping for air at the surface etc etc. If ever they do start surface
>>hanging etc ill add aeration
>
> GF are hardy & energetic. They can look good in marginal or toxic
> water for some time. If problems reach a certain level or duration
> they suddenly become ill as you are describing. By then it's often
> too late. But that doesn't mean that over the long term marginal
> water conditions don't detract from their overall health, life span,
> or growth. If they survive marginal conditions for a long time they
> are stunted in all ways. They don't need to look like they're
> severely sick or going to die or suffocate for that. The other
> problem is that small containers mean that chemistry, temperature, and
> toxic chemicals can change too quickly & extremely with little warning
> to you. Just having your airconditioner turn on & off in the summer
> can be a probelm with that size bowl.
>
> In fact I bought a GF a little while back that looked extremely strong
> in the store tank. It suddenly crashed in the bag & when I brought it
> home I saw it's body & fins were burnt from the store water
> conditions. The trip home pushed it over the edge & suddenly from
> looking so strong it was now near death for several days. After
> intensive nursing it is OK but the gills are still extremely sensitive
> and his growth will likely be stunted. Ill-looking behavior often
> comes on suddenly.
>
>>as for plants i have elodea and banana lilly to keep the tank balanced.
>
> you need _lots_ of plants to completely balance fish- so much that 2
> GF would have no room to swim in a 10 l. / 2.64 gal container.
>
>>these fish are 1" long
>
> Don't be fooled by 2' of GF. That's something like >6" of thin bodied
> tropical fish. They also should be growing & spawning later on if
> healthy.
>
>>and really look healthy as far as i can see.
>
> I'm sure they are not sick right now. Maybe they're stay in that
> state for a while. Eventually, if they're "healthy", they'll grow. As
> that happens the water conditions will decline & your work will
> increase. It'll be hard to estimate changes.
>
> Even if not sick, fish also are run down coming from shipping and the
> nasty water conditions in the pet shop holding tanks. I've had many
> fish that when purchased "looked healthy" or at least looked normal &
> not sick. Then I got them home & acclimated, fed them good food in
> lots of water and lo and behold they got noticeably stronger,
> energetic, started eating like total pigs, and took on better colors,
> etc in the first weeks.
>
> In other words there are different degrees or levels of health.
> Haven't you ever had a month in winter when you felt kinda crummy &
> run down or congested but didn't actually get a full blown cold or flu
> or conversely have a summer where you felt really strong & vital. Both
> periods you were healthy i.e. you were not sick. One is optimal,
> another is marginal. Would you want to feel like you were getting a
> flu your entire life? Would you think that was "healthy"?
>
> Well that's basically where I'm coming from. Good luck & have fun
> whether you stick with GF in a brandy bowl or not.