Clown Loach with an attitude!

[Mark]

I bought a Clown Loach about 6 months ago. During the time I have had
him, he's been fun to watch and appears to be very healthy. I thought
he could use a buddy so I bought a second one. The first few days they
resembled two old dogs circling and sniffing each other out. It was
really a funny sight. The couldn't get enough of each other.

The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one day
because now when the little one trys to get near the larger clown, the
larger clown body slams the little one away. The larger one has snapped
(lurched) at the smaller clown to keep him away.

They both appear to be very healthy, have good appetites and get along
with the other fish, just not each other. I have them in a 20 long with
about a 70% load on the tank overall. Water parameters are just fine, I
do weekly water changes and clean the tank the same time I do a water
change. All the other fish interact just fine. This behaivor is not
typical of clown loaches that I'm aware of. Any thoughts?

Mark

[Victor Martinez]

Mark wrote:
> change. All the other fish interact just fine. This behaivor is not
> typical of clown loaches that I'm aware of. Any thoughts?

It's very typical for loaches to "fight" to determine who's boss. Also,
most loaches are social creatures and prefer to be in groups of at least
3. Five is better.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[Dinky]

"Mark" > wrote in message
...
|| change. All the other fish interact just fine. This behaivor is
not
| typical of clown loaches that I'm aware of. Any thoughts?
|
| Mark

Could be due to only having two. I've always been told that you
should not keep less than three in a tank. I've always followed that
rule, so I've no info about the results of not doing so.

b

[luminos]

It's time for a trip to the store for about three more.

"Mark" > wrote in message
...
> I bought a Clown Loach about 6 months ago. During the time I have had
> him, he's been fun to watch and appears to be very healthy. I thought
> he could use a buddy so I bought a second one. The first few days they
> resembled two old dogs circling and sniffing each other out. It was
> really a funny sight. The couldn't get enough of each other.
>
> The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
> around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one day
> because now when the little one trys to get near the larger clown, the
> larger clown body slams the little one away. The larger one has snapped
> (lurched) at the smaller clown to keep him away.
>
> They both appear to be very healthy, have good appetites and get along
> with the other fish, just not each other. I have them in a 20 long with
> about a 70% load on the tank overall. Water parameters are just fine, I
> do weekly water changes and clean the tank the same time I do a water
> change. All the other fish interact just fine. This behaivor is not
> typical of clown loaches that I'm aware of. Any thoughts?
>
> Mark

[blank]

I recently added two smaller clown loaches to a community tank with about 60
fish, including a larger (<3") clown loach. For the first couple days the
old fella varied between disinterested and aggressive. But they have
settled down now, and all are happy together, tho' the big guy likes the
other two to know who is boss. Interestingly, the large one has now started
making the clicking noises I have read about, but not previously heard. He
definately didn't do it before the new ones were added to the tank. I
suppose he is just letting the others know he is the top dog. Fish are
fascinating.

I would also like the whole world to know that for the first time I actually
kept the two little ones in a quarantine tank for the whole three weeks
which is commonly recommended. It was painful, but I did it.

[Flash Wilson]

On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:17:46 -0600, Mark > wrote:
>The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
>around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one day
>because now when the little one trys to get near the larger clown, the
>larger clown body slams the little one away. The larger one has snapped
>(lurched) at the smaller clown to keep him away.

I had three, all small, one became the boss and acted like this
to the two others, particularly when food was around. Assuming
you have a long tank in order to keep clowns (which can grow to a
foot long), you can help by putting pellets at both ends so both
get some. The bossy one is now 4" and the others are around half
his size. Curiously when I was given another smaller clown as a
gift the big one accepted it, so they now go round in two pairs.

I would get at least one more clown so the bullied one has a friend.


--
Flash Wilson
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Going abroad? Please take a photo of a pylon in another country!
www.gorge.org/pylons has 34 countries covered - only 158 to go!

[Dick]

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:35:30 -0800, "luminos" > wrote:

>It's time for a trip to the store for about three more.
>
>"Mark" > wrote in message
...
>> I bought a Clown Loach about 6 months ago. During the time I have had
>> him, he's been fun to watch and appears to be very healthy. I thought
>> he could use a buddy so I bought a second one. The first few days they
>> resembled two old dogs circling and sniffing each other out. It was
>> really a funny sight. The couldn't get enough of each other.
>>
>> The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
>> around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one day
>> because now when the little one trys to get near the larger clown, the
>> larger clown body slams the little one away. The larger one has snapped
>> (lurched) at the smaller clown to keep him away.
>>
>> They both appear to be very healthy, have good appetites and get along
>> with the other fish, just not each other. I have them in a 20 long with
>> about a 70% load on the tank overall. Water parameters are just fine, I
>> do weekly water changes and clean the tank the same time I do a water
>> change. All the other fish interact just fine. This behaivor is not
>> typical of clown loaches that I'm aware of. Any thoughts?
>>
>> Mark
>
I have clowns in 4 tanks. They really do vary in behavior. I have
one alone in my quarantine tank. He is a runt and I put him there to
try and save him as he was being bullied and not eating in another 10
gallon tank. He is happy in the Q tank along with 5 black mollies
and one large platty. I moved him back to his original tank for a
week and he actually dug a cave under a rock and stayed there. I
moved him back and he returned to his socializing with the mollies.

In a 75 gallon tank I have 7 clowns. I have seen the aggressive
action happen for a few days. Most of the time the 7 go their
separate ways, but at times most of the fish (about 60 fish total)
like to swarm. The 7 clowns are right in with the rest. Funny, when
these clowns first arrived they were really tight. One time 5 of them
formed a circle around the base of a plant and looked dead. As time
passes they spend less time together and no more buddy sleeps.

In another 10 gallon I have 2 clowns that do swim around together,
but not real tight.

My summary is clowns are not all the same. Their behaviors is not
always the same. They are a healthy and amusing fish to have around
and they do control the snails. I can believe any story about their
social behavior, but rarely see mine acting in real continuing
closeness. I keep one in one tank, two in another, 3 in a third and
the 7 in the 75 gallon.

One thing I do worry about is what will their final size be? My
largest is only 3 inches now. They are all about the same age, say
one year. I picture the day when they will all have to be in the 75
or in the 29 gallon tank. That will be crowded. In adding more
consider the future possibilities as well as the immediate.

[Graham Broadbridge]

"Mark" > wrote in message
...
> I bought a Clown Loach about 6 months ago. During the time I have had
> him, he's been fun to watch and appears to be very healthy. I thought
> he could use a buddy so I bought a second one. The first few days they
> resembled two old dogs circling and sniffing each other out. It was
> really a funny sight. The couldn't get enough of each other.
>
> The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
> around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one day
> because now when the little one trys to get near the larger clown, the
> larger clown body slams the little one away. The larger one has snapped
> (lurched) at the smaller clown to keep him away.

Clown loaches are very social fish, but they do form 'gangs'.

Two clowns will argue endlessly, 3 clowns will leave an odd man out. Best
bet is a minimum of 5 clown loaches who will either get together or form two
groups.

The 5 Clowns in my 55 gal are around 5 inch each and swim together.


G.

[Victor Martinez]

Graham Broadbridge wrote:
> Two clowns will argue endlessly, 3 clowns will leave an odd man out. Best
> bet is a minimum of 5 clown loaches who will either get together or form two
> groups.

I agree. I have 7 clowns and they all used to squeeze into one slate
cave to sleep together. Now they don't all fit and they've divided in
two groups for sleeping. The largest clown is about 4", the smallest one
is 2".

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[RedForeman ©®]

> The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
> around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one

Not sure if anyone would believe, but I'd say it's a size difference... We
see it in cichlids, the same breed but in two different sizes will result in
a dominance war or sorts....the larger will beat up on the smaller ones to
bully and establish their dominance, leaving the rest to either follow or
get beat up more...

My advice would be to get more of similar size, closer to the first
purchased clown.... and be careful about getting such dramatically
differering sized clown loaches.

--
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streetfighter!!!

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of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

[NetMax]

"Dick" > wrote...
> "luminos" > wrote:
> >"Mark" > wrote

<snip>
> I have clowns in 4 tanks. They really do vary in behavior. I have
> one alone in my quarantine tank. He is a runt and I put him there to
> try and save him as he was being bullied and not eating in another 10
> gallon tank. He is happy in the Q tank along with 5 black mollies
> and one large platty. I moved him back to his original tank for a
> week and he actually dug a cave under a rock and stayed there. I
> moved him back and he returned to his socializing with the mollies.
<snip>

I find it commendable when a habitat is arranged to suit a particular
personality, even when it runs a bit contrary to the usual advice. To
me, that's the spirit of the hobby, to watch and adjust. Advice is just
where to start from.

You might try re-acclimating the runt to the group periodically (once a
year?), just to see when or if the situation changes. I've had fish
which had permanent separate quarters (to prevent them killing each
other) and age mellowed them enough, so that they could be put together
again. Non-ideal same-species company is sometimes preferable to species
solitude, but it varies by species, personality and age.

NetMax

[Josh Mills]

In article >,
says...
> The 5 Clowns in my 55 gal are around 5 inch each and swim together.
>
>
> G.
>
>
>
>
If you bought the loaches when they were small, how long did it take
them to reach 5"? I have a 55 gallon with one clown(2 1/2"), and I'm
going to buy 4 more as soon as my quarantine tank is cycled. I would
guess it would take a long time for them to out grow a 55 gal.

Josh

[Mark]

Thanks to all who replied. I'm a bit hesitant to purchase a third
Clown for now due to the tank size. I have my eye on a 75g that
would make a perfect home for them. This is probably one of the most
interesting fish I have. Their social behaivior is unlike anything
else I have witnessed before.

Fortunately, they do not fight in the true sense. Their behaivor appears
to be a territorial issue. The larger of the two does not want the little
one in his "personal" space. If this gets to be a any more aggressive
I suppose it would be best to seperate them.

[Dick]

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:35:07 -0500, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>
>"Dick" > wrote...
>> "luminos" > wrote:
>> >"Mark" > wrote
>
><snip>
>> I have clowns in 4 tanks. They really do vary in behavior. I have
>> one alone in my quarantine tank. He is a runt and I put him there to
>> try and save him as he was being bullied and not eating in another 10
>> gallon tank. He is happy in the Q tank along with 5 black mollies
>> and one large platty. I moved him back to his original tank for a
>> week and he actually dug a cave under a rock and stayed there. I
>> moved him back and he returned to his socializing with the mollies.
><snip>
>
>I find it commendable when a habitat is arranged to suit a particular
>personality, even when it runs a bit contrary to the usual advice. To
>me, that's the spirit of the hobby, to watch and adjust. Advice is just
>where to start from.
>
>You might try re-acclimating the runt to the group periodically (once a
>year?), just to see when or if the situation changes. I've had fish
>which had permanent separate quarters (to prevent them killing each
>other) and age mellowed them enough, so that they could be put together
>again. Non-ideal same-species company is sometimes preferable to species
>solitude, but it varies by species, personality and age.
>
>NetMax
>

I am like you NetMax, I like to see unique personalities. Actually, I
am glad the runt likes the quarantine tank and is happy with the
mollies. Not only do I not like having him hiding in the other tank,
but I am glad to have his snail services in the quarantine tank. I
don't have much need for the Q tank, so I keep it running like all my
other tanks ready to accept a fish for observation. Since the CL is
happy, I am happy and don't plan to try moving him again.

[Dick]

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:09:42 +1000, "Graham Broadbridge"
> wrote:

>"Mark" > wrote in message
...
>> I bought a Clown Loach about 6 months ago. During the time I have had
>> him, he's been fun to watch and appears to be very healthy. I thought
>> he could use a buddy so I bought a second one. The first few days they
>> resembled two old dogs circling and sniffing each other out. It was
>> really a funny sight. The couldn't get enough of each other.
>>
>> The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
>> around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one day
>> because now when the little one trys to get near the larger clown, the
>> larger clown body slams the little one away. The larger one has snapped
>> (lurched) at the smaller clown to keep him away.
>
>Clown loaches are very social fish, but they do form 'gangs'.
>
>Two clowns will argue endlessly, 3 clowns will leave an odd man out. Best
>bet is a minimum of 5 clown loaches who will either get together or form two
>groups.
>
>The 5 Clowns in my 55 gal are around 5 inch each and swim together.
>
>
>G.
>
>

How old are your 5 inch CLs? Mine have leveled off at about 3 inches
and are about 1 year old. I have had them for about 10 months and
they were an inch when I got them.

[Dick]

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:19:28 -0500, "RedForeman ©®"
> wrote:

>> The first clown I purchased is about 2 inches long and the new one is
>> around an inch long. Something happened while my back was turned one
>
>Not sure if anyone would believe, but I'd say it's a size difference... We
>see it in cichlids, the same breed but in two different sizes will result in
>a dominance war or sorts....the larger will beat up on the smaller ones to
>bully and establish their dominance, leaving the rest to either follow or
>get beat up more...
>
>My advice would be to get more of similar size, closer to the first
>purchased clown.... and be careful about getting such dramatically
>differering sized clown loaches.

Red, I think getting additional CLs would be a gamble. I get all my
fish through the internet, so all are gambles. I have 4 tanks with
CLs. One 10 has two, another has one, my 29 gallon has 3 and the 75
gallon has 7. I have had very little chasing and only one time that
looked serious. That one only lasted a few hours. The 75 gallon CLs
early on were very chummy, now, 10 months later, they are seldom close
to each other. Each seems to live in its own space. I miss the
chummy get togethers. The 3 in the 29 gallon stay closer together,
but never do the stuff the others did. The 2 in the 10 gallon do stay
together more, but no more than the 3. The loner in the 10 gallon
tank seems happy to swim with the 6 mollies. In my tanks, the mollies
stay together more than any of the Clowns.

I was just watching 3 in my 75 swim across the front together,
suddenly they broke off and went 3 different directions.

I hope that the size of these fish doesn't ever get beyond 6 inches.
Three inches is just fine. They haven't grown noticeably in the last
3 months.

[Dick]

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:38:30 -0600, Mark > wrote:

>Thanks to all who replied. I'm a bit hesitant to purchase a third
>Clown for now due to the tank size. I have my eye on a 75g that
>would make a perfect home for them. This is probably one of the most
>interesting fish I have. Their social behaivior is unlike anything
>else I have witnessed before.
>
>Fortunately, they do not fight in the true sense. Their behaivor appears
>to be a territorial issue. The larger of the two does not want the little
>one in his "personal" space. If this gets to be a any more aggressive
>I suppose it would be best to seperate them.

Now that is unique to me. My CLs have never shown terratorialism.
Even when chasing down the same food flake, it is first come first
eats. Mine range all over their tanks.

Thanks for starting this thread. I always enjoy hearing more about
this unique species. Like you, I find the CL the most interesting.