Formal pond construction from a newbie

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I'd like to build a 12' x 8' formal rectangular pond on my patio that
would contain a few goldfish and some water plants and I'd like to do
it out of concrete. Our local codes clasify ponds as swimming pools and
as such any pond or pool deeper than 24" is subject to having a fence
put around it. This means my pond will be no deeper than 22" because a
fence would ruin the look. The pond will prodrude 12" above ground with
the remainder under ground and I live in Michigan so this means it will
probably freeze solid in the winter. I would like to use concrete to
construct the form and tile over it with black slate so it matches my
patio and I'm wondering if I can drain the pond in the winter in order
to minimize the chance of the pond cracking? There seems to be a lot of
discussion about leaving the water in the pond and either using a
bubbler or heater to keep the water a liquid but the driving factor in
most of these talks is the need to keep fish alive. I would rather keep
the fish inside where I can still enjoy them especially if it means I
can drain the pond and not worry about it cracking in half over the
winter. My plan is to build the pond with a layer of insulating
foundation foam around the perimeter where it's under ground and pour
the base on top of a 6" bed of crushed stone. The idea being that any
side shifting will be taken up by the foam and any upheaval will be
distributed by the rock bed. Has anyone tried this? Do any of you drain
your concrete ponds in winter?

Please help
Thanks
Todd

[Pete Thomas]

wrote:
> I'd like to build a 12' x 8' formal rectangular pond on my patio that
> would contain a few goldfish and some water plants and I'd like to do
> it out of concrete. Our local codes clasify ponds as swimming pools and
> as such any pond or pool deeper than 24" is subject to having a fence
> put around it. This means my pond will be no deeper than 22" because a
> fence would ruin the look. The pond will prodrude 12" above ground with
> the remainder under ground and I live in Michigan so this means it will
> probably freeze solid in the winter. I would like to use concrete to
> construct the form and tile over it with black slate so it matches my
> patio and I'm wondering if I can drain the pond in the winter in order
> to minimize the chance of the pond cracking? There seems to be a lot of
> discussion about leaving the water in the pond and either using a
> bubbler or heater to keep the water a liquid but the driving factor in
> most of these talks is the need to keep fish alive. I would rather keep
> the fish inside where I can still enjoy them especially if it means I
> can drain the pond and not worry about it cracking in half over the
> winter. My plan is to build the pond with a layer of insulating
> foundation foam around the perimeter where it's under ground and pour
> the base on top of a 6" bed of crushed stone. The idea being that any
> side shifting will be taken up by the foam and any upheaval will be
> distributed by the rock bed. Has anyone tried this? Do any of you drain
> your concrete ponds in winter?

I had no problem with pond cracking when I had a concrete pond, but why
have concrete? I would never do that again. I have had several ponds
since then and am very happy with liners.

I would also not worry too much about the regulations with a pond that
size, you can have most of the depth 24" but a smallish deeper bit in
the middle. A few plants in there and the top of the plant pots will be
up to the same level as the rest.

--
Pete Thomas - www.petethomas.co.uk
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[Nick Byford]

I would agree with Pete. Concrete can be a real pain if levels around or
under the pond change due to moisture, temperature etc.

General rule of thumb is to make a pond in excess of eighteen inches deep
and that way it won't freeze completely in the winter. Of course, that may
not work for you over the pond (if you pardon the pun) since I have no idea
what you temperature will drop to or for how long.

Our pond has been created for wildlife and our fish which we inherited when
we bought the house and we started with a pond of 10' x 20' at a max depth
(we found out when emptying) of 3'.

We now have a much larger pond and our website shows the various stages we
went through making it. Obviously at 24' x 15' at its widest and longest, I
would imagine it would be a bit big to copy, but the principals are the
same.

The liner for this cost less than we thought and it nearly indestructable
(under normal circumstances, being guaranteed for 25 years). We are very
happy with what we now have, having a range of wildlife in it along with the
plants and fish.

Take a peek at www.pennix.co.uk and let us know what you think.

I hope this has been beneficial to you.

Nick B

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'd like to build a 12' x 8' formal rectangular pond on my patio that
> would contain a few goldfish and some water plants and I'd like to do
> it out of concrete. Our local codes clasify ponds as swimming pools and
> as such any pond or pool deeper than 24" is subject to having a fence
> put around it. This means my pond will be no deeper than 22" because a
> fence would ruin the look. The pond will prodrude 12" above ground with
> the remainder under ground and I live in Michigan so this means it will
> probably freeze solid in the winter. I would like to use concrete to
> construct the form and tile over it with black slate so it matches my
> patio and I'm wondering if I can drain the pond in the winter in order
> to minimize the chance of the pond cracking? There seems to be a lot of
> discussion about leaving the water in the pond and either using a
> bubbler or heater to keep the water a liquid but the driving factor in
> most of these talks is the need to keep fish alive. I would rather keep
> the fish inside where I can still enjoy them especially if it means I
> can drain the pond and not worry about it cracking in half over the
> winter. My plan is to build the pond with a layer of insulating
> foundation foam around the perimeter where it's under ground and pour
> the base on top of a 6" bed of crushed stone. The idea being that any
> side shifting will be taken up by the foam and any upheaval will be
> distributed by the rock bed. Has anyone tried this? Do any of you drain
> your concrete ponds in winter?
>
> Please help
> Thanks
> Todd
>