new tank questions: biofilter, sand cleaning, guppy control

[flupke]

Hi,

i'm still in the planning stages of a 500 liter/139 gallon tank and i
have a few questions. Recently, i asked the LFS for an estimate and
on that estimate i saw that there was no "real" filter. Just a built
in biofilter with some carbon and sponge. Maybe they missed on the
estimate and forgot to add a pump otherwise this doesn't seem like
a good system?
Tomorrow i'll be going back to talk to the people over there to
see if it was an error or not but otherwise, if this really is the
filtration system, i would add an extra filter, for instance an
eheim or something similar. Would this be overkill?

I'm also planning to use sand and quite heavily plant the tank.
Right now i have a small 15 gal tank and it's easy to clean the
gravel by using such a vacuum cilinder. ( or how is such a cilinder
with attached tube called?)
I don't think this is going to work in a bigger tank and having
many plants will also hinder vacuuming the gravel. This bothers me
a bit since on my small tank, the gravel seems to be really filthy
if i don't vacuum a particular part after a couple of weeks.
Then when i vacuum it, the water really smells which is not the case
if it's from an area that i vacuum regularly. But the water quality
remains very good so i suppose it doesn't really hurt either.
( unless you suck the tube too hard and swallow a gulp of fish
poo water :) )
Any tips/advice other that frequent waterchanges for a tank of that
size? Any links?

When i start the new tank i'm cleaning out my 2 small tanks and i'm
going to take the water from both to fill the big tank. This should
already cut down on the time it will take to cycle. I'm going to go
for the fishless cycle also.
Anyway, this is what is going into tank in the long run. I'm
planning to add them in small batches over several weeks/months.

7 x Corydoras Paleatus
7 x Corydoras Panda
20 x Cardinal Tetra
1 x Peckoltia Vittata
5 x Otocinclus
5 x Botia Striata
8 x Fiveband barbs
4 x Platies
8 x Guppies
1 x Betta
10 x Zebra Danio
2 x Dwarf Gourami

I added the gouramis as "pest" control for the guppy & platy fry
since one guppy infested tank is enough. I like them but they breed
to much. I'm not sure if i would add they otherwise but the misses
made a clear statement about them. Ouch, that was one fight i had
to back down from ;)
So i hope that the other fish are going to be eating enough
fry to keep them from overrunning the tank.
Any other pest-control fish that would fit well with the current
batch?

flupke

[NetMax]

"flupke" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> i'm still in the planning stages of a 500 liter/139 gallon tank and i
> have a few questions. Recently, i asked the LFS for an estimate and
> on that estimate i saw that there was no "real" filter. Just a built
> in biofilter with some carbon and sponge. Maybe they missed on the
> estimate and forgot to add a pump otherwise this doesn't seem like
> a good system?
> Tomorrow i'll be going back to talk to the people over there to
> see if it was an error or not but otherwise, if this really is the
> filtration system, i would add an extra filter, for instance an
> eheim or something similar. Would this be overkill?

You would need to specify the system used or describe it better. The
higher your plant-fish ratio, the more you rely on organic filtration
instead of biological filtration.

> I'm also planning to use sand and quite heavily plant the tank.
> Right now i have a small 15 gal tank and it's easy to clean the
> gravel by using such a vacuum cilinder. ( or how is such a cilinder
> with attached tube called?)

A gravel vacuum.

> I don't think this is going to work in a bigger tank and having
> many plants will also hinder vacuuming the gravel. This bothers me
> a bit since on my small tank, the gravel seems to be really filthy
> if i don't vacuum a particular part after a couple of weeks.
> Then when i vacuum it, the water really smells which is not the case
> if it's from an area that i vacuum regularly. But the water quality
> remains very good so i suppose it doesn't really hurt either.
> ( unless you suck the tube too hard and swallow a gulp of fish
> poo water :) )
> Any tips/advice other that frequent waterchanges for a tank of that
> size? Any links?

You don't gravel vacuum sand in the conventional way, just skim the top
to suck up and detritus floating there. Also, as plants spread out, you
gravel vacuum less, so as to not damage the root network.

> When i start the new tank i'm cleaning out my 2 small tanks and i'm
> going to take the water from both to fill the big tank. This should
> already cut down on the time it will take to cycle. I'm going to go
> for the fishless cycle also.

There isn't much bacterial value in old tank water. Move your old
filters over (or the dirty filter media) for a few weeks and you will
cycle fine. Don't bother with fishless cycling. It's just not
applicable in your case, with old filters available and lots of plants.

> Anyway, this is what is going into tank in the long run. I'm
> planning to add them in small batches over several weeks/months.
>
> 7 x Corydoras Paleatus
> 7 x Corydoras Panda
> 20 x Cardinal Tetra
> 1 x Peckoltia Vittata
> 5 x Otocinclus
> 5 x Botia Striata
> 8 x Fiveband barbs
> 4 x Platies
> 8 x Guppies
> 1 x Betta
> 10 x Zebra Danio
> 2 x Dwarf Gourami
>
> I added the gouramis as "pest" control for the guppy & platy fry
> since one guppy infested tank is enough. I like them but they breed
> to much. I'm not sure if i would add they otherwise but the misses
> made a clear statement about them. Ouch, that was one fight i had
> to back down from ;)

I'm not sure how good Dwarf gouramis are at pest control, but with
everything else, it should control the numbers somewhat, but it is a 139g
tank and that's a lot of hiding spots.

> So i hope that the other fish are going to be eating enough
> fry to keep them from overrunning the tank.
> Any other pest-control fish that would fit well with the current
> batch?

Anything fast with a mouth which is big enough will do the trick. How
about 5 Giant danios?

NetMax

> flupke

[flupke]

NetMax wrote:
> You would need to specify the system used or describe it better. The
> higher your plant-fish ratio, the more you rely on organic filtration
> instead of biological filtration.

Well, we went up there today and it was an error, the biofilter includes a
pump. Anyway, their homemade aquariums are only available in 2 colors
and my wife doesn't like them. She like the style of the Rena Aqualife
Classic so i might end up with the 150cm one which is approximately
500 liters.
http://www.rena.net/cgi-bin/trans.pl/en/products/rena_range/style_aqualife_c
lassic.shtml
It seems like a decent setup, with an external pump and 2 heaters.

> You don't gravel vacuum sand in the conventional way, just skim the
> top to suck up and detritus floating there. Also, as plants spread
> out, you gravel vacuum less, so as to not damage the root network.

That makes sense.

> There isn't much bacterial value in old tank water. Move your old
> filters over (or the dirty filter media) for a few weeks and you will
> cycle fine. Don't bother with fishless cycling. It's just not
> applicable in your case, with old filters available and lots of
> plants.

Woohoo no long cycle time. Yeha! :)
I'm planning to first put a lot of plants in, put the fish that i have
now in (very low fishload compared to the size of the new tank) and
move the old filters from the 2 aquariums in and leave them in there
like you suggested. Then leave it running like this for a couple
of weeks.

> I'm not sure how good Dwarf gouramis are at pest control, but with
> everything else, it should control the numbers somewhat, but it is a
> 139g tank and that's a lot of hiding spots.

That's what i'm afraid of, lot's of hiding places...
Hhhhmm. And if i get the big tank, the 2 smaller tanks need to
dissappear so my 40+ guppies would need to go to the big tank.
I'll ask the LFS if they want some.

>> So i hope that the other fish are going to be eating enough
>> fry to keep them from overrunning the tank.
>> Any other pest-control fish that would fit well with the current
>> batch?
>
> Anything fast with a mouth which is big enough will do the trick. How
> about 5 Giant danios?

Excellent, i'll have a look at those.

Thanks
Benedict

[Robert Flory]

Yo-yos are keeping my guppy tank fry free.
bob

"flupke" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> i'm still in the planning stages of a 500 liter/139 gallon tank and i
> have a few questions. Recently, i asked the LFS for an estimate and
> on that estimate i saw that there was no "real" filter. Just a built
> in biofilter with some carbon and sponge. Maybe they missed on the
> estimate and forgot to add a pump otherwise this doesn't seem like
> a good system?
> Tomorrow i'll be going back to talk to the people over there to
> see if it was an error or not but otherwise, if this really is the
> filtration system, i would add an extra filter, for instance an
> eheim or something similar. Would this be overkill?
>
> I'm also planning to use sand and quite heavily plant the tank.
> Right now i have a small 15 gal tank and it's easy to clean the
> gravel by using such a vacuum cilinder. ( or how is such a cilinder
> with attached tube called?)
> I don't think this is going to work in a bigger tank and having
> many plants will also hinder vacuuming the gravel. This bothers me
> a bit since on my small tank, the gravel seems to be really filthy
> if i don't vacuum a particular part after a couple of weeks.
> Then when i vacuum it, the water really smells which is not the case
> if it's from an area that i vacuum regularly. But the water quality
> remains very good so i suppose it doesn't really hurt either.
> ( unless you suck the tube too hard and swallow a gulp of fish
> poo water :) )
> Any tips/advice other that frequent waterchanges for a tank of that
> size? Any links?
>
> When i start the new tank i'm cleaning out my 2 small tanks and i'm
> going to take the water from both to fill the big tank. This should
> already cut down on the time it will take to cycle. I'm going to go
> for the fishless cycle also.
> Anyway, this is what is going into tank in the long run. I'm
> planning to add them in small batches over several weeks/months.
>
> 7 x Corydoras Paleatus
> 7 x Corydoras Panda
> 20 x Cardinal Tetra
> 1 x Peckoltia Vittata
> 5 x Otocinclus
> 5 x Botia Striata
> 8 x Fiveband barbs
> 4 x Platies
> 8 x Guppies
> 1 x Betta
> 10 x Zebra Danio
> 2 x Dwarf Gourami
>
> I added the gouramis as "pest" control for the guppy & platy fry
> since one guppy infested tank is enough. I like them but they breed
> to much. I'm not sure if i would add they otherwise but the misses
> made a clear statement about them. Ouch, that was one fight i had
> to back down from ;)
> So i hope that the other fish are going to be eating enough
> fry to keep them from overrunning the tank.
> Any other pest-control fish that would fit well with the current
> batch?
>
> flupke
>
>

[flupke]

Robert Flory wrote:
> Yo-yos are keeping my guppy tank fry free.
> bob

Thanks for the tip!