Attempt at water ditch waterfall.

[Mama Bear]

We have an agricultural water ditch running right next to our house.
It's about 4' wide and 3' deep. ( the actual ditch not the water flow )

We thought it would be nice to have some falling water sound in there,
so we could hear it in our yard. So I went and bought 6 concrete blocks
at the store ( 8x8x16 ) and put 3 across the bottom and 3 across on top
of those, but as the water rose in the ditch, the pressure pushed them
all over.

So I put the bottom row back in place and placed the top row back, but
set back a couple of inches towards the water flow, so they wouldn't
topple over. But what that did was create a situation where the water
flows up into the holes in the top row, down into the holes in the
bottom row, and back out through the holes in the bottom row again. It
makes a little waterfall sound but not enough to hear from the house.

How can I do this, so as to keep the water pressure from pushing the
blocks over, and still make the water flow over the top in a nice little
waterfall?

I thought of putting a wood panel up against the blocks from the back,
sort of like a ramp, so the water might flow up and over the top, but
don't know if that would stay in place either.



--
- Mama Bear

[Koi-Lo]

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Mama Bear" > wrote in message
...
> We have an agricultural water ditch running right next to our house.
> It's about 4' wide and 3' deep. ( the actual ditch not the water flow )
>
===============
What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small pond with
a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you seek?
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Reading Headers:
http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
All rude or obscene messages are/were posted by my impersonator.
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Koi-Lo]

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Mama Bear" > wrote in message
...
> "Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote :
>
>> What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small
>> pond with a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you
>> seek?
>
>
> Interesting thought.

> Do they have inexpensive self-priming pond pumps that would pull water
> from the ditch 30 feet away, and up into, for example, a large fountain
> bird bath?

Why do you need to use water from this ditch? Surely you have running water
in your home. ???

It could be rigged up with a float switch to only turn on when
> the birds knocked the water level down.

If it's underwater there is no need for it to be self priming. When the
switch flips it will run.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
All rude and/or obscene messages posted
by my impersonator ~Roy.
Anti-Troll FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Koi-Lo]

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Mama Bear" > wrote in message
...
> "Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote :
>> If it's underwater there is no need for it to be self priming. When
>> the switch flips it will run.

> Not what I'm talking about. I don't have electricity out in the ditch. I
> need the pump at the house where the bird bath will be, and for it to
> suck water from the ditch 30 ft away, self priming, and fill the
> fountain or bird bath.
>
> --
> - Mama Bear
============================
I see what you mean. You would need a powerful and "not cheap" pump to suck
the water from 30' away. I have a birdbath that holds about 2 gallons of
water and only have to fill it once every few days.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
All rude and/or obscene messages
posted by my impersonator Roy.
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[~Roy]

As yuy can tell this dumb assed bitch Carol Gulley aka koi lo does not
have a clue what the hell she is talking about as usual. her answers
illustrate this perfectly, as she was at a loss to find an existing
website with the pertinient information she could just copy / paste
and pretend she knew the answer to like she normally does......so
there fore with her propensity to respond and be noticed she is gonna
state something, anything , no matter if its right or wrong......

On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 23:59:50 -0500, "Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote:
>><>*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>><>
>><>"Mama Bear" > wrote in message
...
>><>> "Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote :
>><>>
>><>>> What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small
>><>>> pond with a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you
>><>>> seek?
>><>>
>><>>
>><>> Interesting thought.
>><>
>><>> Do they have inexpensive self-priming pond pumps that would pull water
>><>> from the ditch 30 feet away, and up into, for example, a large fountain
>><>> bird bath?
>><>
>><>Why do you need to use water from this ditch? Surely you have running water
>><>in your home. ???
>><>
>><>It could be rigged up with a float switch to only turn on when
>><>> the birds knocked the water level down.
>><>
>><>If it's underwater there is no need for it to be self priming. When the
>><>switch flips it will run.

[~Roy]

Yes they do make pumps as such. Its not the disrtance that degrades a
pumps performance as much as the height it has to pull / suck / push
water. A typical birdbath or fountain is pretty well within the
regions of a typical pump, however you need to take into consideratin
the lay of the land as well, as any gade is gong to have to be counted
into the height factor.....

You cold theroetically have a water hole 100 feet away and have a pump
mounted at the end of a 100 feet of pipe, and pull water fairly
efficient. However pushing water by having water at the water hole
and pushing it 100 feet is harder to do, so your best off with the
pump around the fountain area....make the supplly line larger than is
necessary. If it was me, I would probbaly make a manifold out of large
diameter PVC pipe say 4" or larger, and bury it, so it had an inlet
with screen ata the source of the water in the ditch, and had an out
let at the fountain. Water level would fill this PVC manifold
normally, so I wul din all reality be just pulling water from the
outlet end and let gravity push or keep the manifold filled. Sediement
may be an issue but there is means / fixes to take for that as well..

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 22:41:27 -0500, Mama Bear >
wrote:
>><>"Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote :
>><>
>><>> What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small
>><>> pond with a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you
>><>> seek?
>><>
>><>
>><>Interesting thought.
>><>
>><>Do they have inexpensive self-priming pond pumps that would pull water
>><>from the ditch 30 feet away, and up into, for example, a large fountain
>><>bird bath? It could be rigged up with a float switch to only turn on when
>><>the birds knocked the water level down.

[~ janj]

>> What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small
>> pond with a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you
>> seek?
>
>Interesting thought.
>
>Do they have inexpensive self-priming pond pumps that would pull water
>from the ditch 30 feet away, and up into, for example, a large fountain
>bird bath? It could be rigged up with a float switch to only turn on when
>the birds knocked the water level down.

Sure they do, or a sump pump..... though.... in my county (desert
w/irrigation) you'd need a permit, or it would be consider water stealing.
<Yikes!> ;) ~ jan
-----------------
(Do you know where your water quality is?)
Also ponding troll free at:
http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium

[Roy]

"Koi-Lo" aka ROY > wrote in message
...

> Save your momneyb and get a decent filter such as a POndmaster kit or
> BIo force. ALgae is a big problem in smaller ponds as such and a
> filter capable of picking it o=up is needed, and those filter kits
> sold in big box stores are not the ticket. They are minimum by any
> means in terms of even filtration no matter what the box label
> says.......especially a beckett.
> Get a Danner MAg Drive Pondmaster. A Mag7 ot 9 will do it, no need to
> go to 2 on such a small preform, unless yu go to a 12 and use it as a
> sole pump, but its still may overkill in a 165 gal preform. With 18
> inches of depth, and twop feet high water fall, your ball park to a
> lift of 3 1/2 feet already and its gonna cut down on pump performance
> big time with that becket or anyt other smaller pump even if its just
> used for water fall alone.
>
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 02:16:50 GMT, "Steve" > wrote:
> >><>Well I have been reading for a few weeks and finally decided to do a
pond.
> >><>I will probably just put a few small goldfish in it nothing big. It
will be
> >><>a preformed one from HD 165 gallons and 18" deep. I will bring in the
> >><>goldfish in the winter to an aquarium ( i have 4 of them).
> >><>
> >><>My questions is : I will be getting a pump and filter combo (Beckett
Small
> >><>Pond Filter Kit Model 7040210). Will I be able to run a waterfall
that is 2
> >><>ft high and about 3 feet away from where the pump will be located? I
> >><>noticed that it has a valve for other water features on it so that is
what I
> >><>was going to hook up to it. I will use the fountain attachement also.
> >><>
> >><>Thanks in advance. It is all confusing to me. I am jsut not wanting
to
> >><>spend money on two pumps if not needed.
> >><>
> >><>Thanks
> >><>steve
> >><>
> >><>

[~Roy]

"Koi-Lo" aka Roy > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I think kevin is in dire need of a tranquillizer or two.Chill out
> dude, Princes Di is dead and no amound of hurrying up is gonna
> change that... better yet, go ask your stupid questions on google run
> by and for brits!

"Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote in message
...
> *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>
> "Mama Bear" > wrote in message
> ...
> > We have an agricultural water ditch running right next to our house.
> > It's about 4' wide and 3' deep. ( the actual ditch not the water flow )
> >
> ===============
> What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small pond
with
> a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you seek?
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Reading Headers:
> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
> All rude or obscene messages are/were posted by my impersonator.
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>
>
>
>

[Lone Gunman]

On rec.ponds, in
,
"Koi-Lo" wrote:

> A classic forged header:
<snip>

And again I say "DUH" Carol...
--
Anti-Troll FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/d8e4

Ignore the grassy knoll, there is only one Lone Gunman.

[~Roy]

"~Roy" aka Koi-Lo > wrote in message
...
Its b****ing asholes like you that keep the noise level going. Your
the first ****ing moron to snap today......you poor pityful
looser......

"Mama Bear" > wrote in message
...
> We have an agricultural water ditch running right next to our house.
> It's about 4' wide and 3' deep. ( the actual ditch not the water flow )
>
> We thought it would be nice to have some falling water sound in there,
> so we could hear it in our yard. So I went and bought 6 concrete blocks
> at the store ( 8x8x16 ) and put 3 across the bottom and 3 across on top
> of those, but as the water rose in the ditch, the pressure pushed them
> all over.
>
> So I put the bottom row back in place and placed the top row back, but
> set back a couple of inches towards the water flow, so they wouldn't
> topple over. But what that did was create a situation where the water
> flows up into the holes in the top row, down into the holes in the
> bottom row, and back out through the holes in the bottom row again. It
> makes a little waterfall sound but not enough to hear from the house.
>
> How can I do this, so as to keep the water pressure from pushing the
> blocks over, and still make the water flow over the top in a nice little
> waterfall?
>
> I thought of putting a wood panel up against the blocks from the back,
> sort of like a ramp, so the water might flow up and over the top, but
> don't know if that would stay in place either.
>
>
>
> --
> - Mama Bear

[~Roy]

"~Roy" aka Koi-Lo > wrote in message
...

Its b****ing asholes like you that keep the noise level going. Your
the first ****ing moron to snap today......you poor pityful
looser......

"Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote in message
...
> *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>
> "Mama Bear" > wrote in message
> ...
> > We have an agricultural water ditch running right next to our house.
> > It's about 4' wide and 3' deep. ( the actual ditch not the water flow )
> >
> ===============
> What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small pond
with
> a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you seek?
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> Reading Headers:
> http://tinyurl.com/amm9s
> All rude or obscene messages are/were posted by my impersonator.
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>
>
>
>

[~Roy]

"~Roy" aka Koi-Lo > wrote in message
...

Its b****ing asholes like you that keep the noise level going. Your
the first ****ing moron to snap today......you poor pityful
looser......

"Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote in message
...
> *Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>
> "Mama Bear" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Koi-Lo" <Reply to NG Only> wrote :
> >
> >> What you are attempting may not be legal. Why not put in a small
> >> pond with a waterfall or some kind of fountain to make the noise you
> >> seek?
> >
> >
> > Interesting thought.
>
> > Do they have inexpensive self-priming pond pumps that would pull water
> > from the ditch 30 feet away, and up into, for example, a large fountain
> > bird bath?
>
> Why do you need to use water from this ditch? Surely you have running
water
> in your home. ???
>
> It could be rigged up with a float switch to only turn on when
> > the birds knocked the water level down.
>
> If it's underwater there is no need for it to be self priming. When the
> switch flips it will run.
> --
> Koi-Lo....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
> http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> All rude and/or obscene messages posted
> by my impersonator ~Roy.
> Anti-Troll FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/d8e4
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[sean mckinney]

Mama Bear Wrote:
>
>
> How can I do this, so as to keep the water pressure from pushing the
> blocks over, and still make the water flow over the top in a nice
> little
> waterfall?
>
>
>
> --
> - Mama Bear


I'd buy solid block and cut them to the shape of arch stones, ie wedge
like, them build them in a curve like the hoover dam. A 9" diamond
edged stone cutting disc in a 9" angle grinder would make short work of
the cutting and the discs are cheap, about £19 here


--
sean mckinney

[~Roy]

Actually there is no ned to use a grinder and cuttin gwheel, as they
are just cast concrete, and using a 4" masonary chisel and hammer
makes a nice clean break directly under the chisels cutting edge.
Nothing to wear out and its fast and easy to cut the typical edger and
retaining wall man made stones with a hammer and wide chisel.

They sell a 4" as well as other thicknesses of solid retaiing wall
stones that are man made. They have a lip on them that would lend
themselves to holding them in place against pressure of water being
against them, as the way they stack would lock them in polace just
fine, plus they have the ends cut on an angle so it would
automatically form a curved wall without the need to really cut any of
them. I think sediment would eventually fill in a lot of the joints,
and if there is enough volume would still fill up behind it just fine
even if it does leak in joints etc.



On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 10:43:48 +0000, sean mckinney
> wrote:
>><>
>><>Mama Bear Wrote:
>><>>
>><>>
>><>> How can I do this, so as to keep the water pressure from pushing the
>><>> blocks over, and still make the water flow over the top in a nice
>><>> little
>><>> waterfall?
>><>>
>><>>
>><>>
>><>> --
>><>> - Mama Bear
>><>
>><>
>><>I'd buy solid block and cut them to the shape of arch stones, ie wedge
>><>like, them build them in a curve like the hoover dam. A 9" diamond
>><>edged stone cutting disc in a 9" angle grinder would make short work of
>><>the cutting and the discs are cheap, about £19 here

[PlainBill]

There are several potential problems. I'm going to assume this
agricultural ditch is on your property and you have the right to
manipulate the flow.

You are trying to create a dam and spillway. The dam must be stable
enough to hold back the water, the spillway must be situated so it
does not undercut the base of the dam. It appears there is sufficient
slope in the ditch that you can get at least a 16" rise in water
level.

I can think of several approaches. It seems to me the danger of
undercutting can be eliminated by using pond liner at the point where
the waterfall strikes the bottom of the ditch. I'd start with a 6' x
12' piece of liner. The upstream end would be burried in the muck at
the bottom of the ditch, rise over the blocks, descend over the
downstream end of the blocks, and continue downstream from there.
I'd also buy 4 6' long pieces of rebar, and at least three more
blocks.

Place the first row of blocks in the bottom of the ditch. Trap one
end of the pond liner under the blocks. Drive a rebar through the
center hole of each block, driving it so only 7" extends above the top
of each block. Take the last piece of rebar and cut it into 3 pieces,
then bend each piece into a U shaped 'staple'. The space across the
top of the U will be equal to the wall thickness of the concrete
blocks + the diameter of the rebar.

Now set two rows of blocks on top of the first, one row on the
upstream side of the main rebar, one on the bottom side. Use the
'staples' to hold the blocks in postition. Run the liner up the face
of the upstream blocks, across the top, then down and on downstream.

Another approach would be to purchase about a dozen bags of
Readi-Crete, Quick-Crete, or equivalent product. Stack these to make
a dam (run the length of the bags parallel to the sides of the ditch).
Again, I'd use pond liner to prevent erosion at the bottom of the
waterfall.

PlainBill


On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 17:10:58 -0500, Mama Bear >
wrote:

>We have an agricultural water ditch running right next to our house.
>It's about 4' wide and 3' deep. ( the actual ditch not the water flow )
>
>We thought it would be nice to have some falling water sound in there,
>so we could hear it in our yard. So I went and bought 6 concrete blocks
>at the store ( 8x8x16 ) and put 3 across the bottom and 3 across on top
>of those, but as the water rose in the ditch, the pressure pushed them
>all over.
>
>So I put the bottom row back in place and placed the top row back, but
>set back a couple of inches towards the water flow, so they wouldn't
>topple over. But what that did was create a situation where the water
>flows up into the holes in the top row, down into the holes in the
>bottom row, and back out through the holes in the bottom row again. It
>makes a little waterfall sound but not enough to hear from the house.
>
>How can I do this, so as to keep the water pressure from pushing the
>blocks over, and still make the water flow over the top in a nice little
>waterfall?
>
>I thought of putting a wood panel up against the blocks from the back,
>sort of like a ramp, so the water might flow up and over the top, but
>don't know if that would stay in place either.

[sean mckinney]

PlainBill Wrote:
> the spillway must be situated so it
> does not undercut the base of the dam

good point


--
sean mckinney