Murder in my goldfish tank?!

[Clayton F.]

Tonight, my finace and I purchased a plecko and a shrimp/mini-lobster
type thing whose name I cannot remember at the moment to help curb an
algae problem. Before this, we had 4 goldfish...2 Orandas, a Black
Moor and a Calico.

Things were fine until we were ready for bed so I turned their aquarium
light off. An hour later I went to go and look at them, just to see
how they were doing. Unfortunately the Black Moor was severely
wounded, hisunderbelly was torn open and his intestine were hanging
out. Some of the other goldfish were pecking at him and pulling his
apart.

I thought goldfish were non-aggresive and communal. Were they
attacking him or had he gotten injured on something in the tank and it
was just their instinct to peck at him once he was injured. I feel
horrible, as perhaps the introduction of the plecko and lobster thingy
may have stressed them out.

Another thing...I had always noticed that the Black Moor wasn't the
smartest of the 4 original goldfish. He usually seemed to have a hard
time getting to the food when it was feeding time, and would miss and
flakes that were floating right next to his head.

Was he just the "runt" in this tank and that's just the way it goes? I
feel horrible, as I really had a soft spot for him as he seemed to be
the slowest of the 4. Could the lobster thing have given him a pinch
for getting too close while he was searching for food along the rocks?
The girl at the pet store said this "lobsters" were good for goldfish
tanks because they eat most of the bottom junk.

Any thoughts? I certainly hope I didn't contribute to this fish's
demise, I really liked him.

Thanks...

[dc]

"Clayton F." > wrote in news:1150171478.734828.152260
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

> how they were doing. Unfortunately the Black Moor was severely
> wounded, hisunderbelly was torn open and his intestine were hanging
> out. Some of the other goldfish were pecking at him and pulling his
>
> I thought goldfish were non-aggresive and communal. Were they

They are in almost all cases, but they will also attempt to eat anything
that either looks or smells remotely like food. They did not kill your
moor, but you must forgive them for snacking on his remains.

Aggressive plecos are rare. Most of the commonly available species are
placid. Even with some of the more aggressive and expensive ornamental
species belligerent behaviour in a pleco is about territory and not about
predation. However, plecos too will happily eat away at a dead decomposing
fish.


> The girl at the pet store said this "lobsters" were good for goldfish
> tanks because they eat most of the bottom junk.

Fresh water lobsters are actually crayfish. This is undoubtedly the animal
that killed your moor. Crayfish are scavengers of dead organic material by
nature, but they are opportunistic feeders and will not hesitate if they
able to get hold of a slow moving meal, err goldfish (sorry). We will not
keep crayfish with anything other than fast moving robust cichlids in my
store for this reason--we never recommend them for tanks with slow moving
unarmored fishes.

If I were you I would bring your crayfish back to the store and tell the
manager your story before you lose another pet. Perhaps you can argue your
case and get them to exchange the crayfish for a replacement moor.

Plecos are fine bottom feeders, but if you feel you need more scavengers in
your tank consider an apple snail or some harmless whisker shrimp.

[Koi-Lo]

"dc" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Plecos are fine bottom feeders, but if you feel you need more scavengers
> in
> your tank consider an apple snail or some harmless whisker shrimp.
===============
I have plecos and otos for algae control but find my goldfish scavenge the
bottom themselves. They hunt for every speck of dropped food. If I had
something like cories or some type of shrimp they'd probably starve to
death. :(
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[dc]

"Koi-Lo" <Inane messages in my name by Roy Hauer using Hipcrime.> wrote
in :

> I had something like cories or some type of shrimp they'd probably
> starve to death. :(

I've heard far too many stories of small corys getting lodged in the mouths
of large goldfish also...

[Clayton F.]

dc wrote:
> "Clayton F." > wrote in news:1150171478.734828.152260
> @u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
>
> > how they were doing. Unfortunately the Black Moor was severely
> > wounded, hisunderbelly was torn open and his intestine were hanging
> > out. Some of the other goldfish were pecking at him and pulling his
> >
> > I thought goldfish were non-aggresive and communal. Were they
>
> They are in almost all cases, but they will also attempt to eat anything
> that either looks or smells remotely like food. They did not kill your
> moor, but you must forgive them for snacking on his remains.
>
> Aggressive plecos are rare. Most of the commonly available species are
> placid. Even with some of the more aggressive and expensive ornamental
> species belligerent behaviour in a pleco is about territory and not about
> predation. However, plecos too will happily eat away at a dead decomposing
> fish.
>
>
> > The girl at the pet store said this "lobsters" were good for goldfish
> > tanks because they eat most of the bottom junk.
>
> Fresh water lobsters are actually crayfish. This is undoubtedly the animal
> that killed your moor. Crayfish are scavengers of dead organic material by
> nature, but they are opportunistic feeders and will not hesitate if they
> able to get hold of a slow moving meal, err goldfish (sorry). We will not
> keep crayfish with anything other than fast moving robust cichlids in my
> store for this reason--we never recommend them for tanks with slow moving
> unarmored fishes.
>
> If I were you I would bring your crayfish back to the store and tell the
> manager your story before you lose another pet. Perhaps you can argue your
> case and get them to exchange the crayfish for a replacement moor.
>
> Plecos are fine bottom feeders, but if you feel you need more scavengers in
> your tank consider an apple snail or some harmless whisker shrimp.

Thank you for your response. I came home today and one of my Orandas
tail fins were all shredded up and he was/is very lethargic. I've
removed the crayfish and I am bringing him back to the store hoping to
get some better advice and hopefully some replacement fish.

I am really upset, I had a nice tank going with the 4 goldfish who
seemed very, very happy and energetic...now they've lost 1.5 of their
brethren. I feel guilty because I put the fish in danger, and the last
thing I want to do is to hurt anything.

If anyone is truly interested, I will post back in a few days the
results and let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for the replies...I hope this all works out...this seems
like such a great hobby.

[Lone_Gunner]

You believe! What kind of answer is that Carol, either you know or
your guessing. Odds are your guessiung. I have to agree with others
your a waste of DNA.What your goldfish do is irrevelant as to what
other gold fish does.



On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:23:26 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"dc" > wrote in message
...
>> "Koi-Lo" <Inane messages in my name by Roy Hauer using Hipcrime.> wrote
>> in :
>>
>>> I had something like cories or some type of shrimp they'd probably
>>> starve to death. :(
>>
>> I've heard far too many stories of small corys getting lodged in the
>> mouths
>> of large goldfish also...
>===============================
>I believe it's safest to keep corys and shrimp, in fact anything small
>enough for them to try and eat - out of their tanks. Unless overfed they'll
>keep the gravel free of dropped food that lands there. My GF will spend a
>good 5 to 10 minutes scrounging the gravel for missed bits of food. If
>we're observant we all learn what amount to feed where there are no
>leftovers.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Koi-Lo]

"Clayton F." > wrote in message
s.com...
>>
> Thank you for your response. I came home today and one of my Orandas
> tail fins were all shredded up and he was/is very lethargic. I've
> removed the crayfish and I am bringing him back to the store hoping to
> get some better advice and hopefully some replacement fish.

Please be very suspicious of the advice you get from pet shop clerks. Most
are teens or young people with little or no experience or knowledge about
fish and aquarium critters. They may mean well and yet cost you a valued
pet. You would be better off asking HERE or looking for information on the
net.

> I am really upset, I had a nice tank going with the 4 goldfish who
> seemed very, very happy and energetic...now they've lost 1.5 of their
> brethren. I feel guilty because I put the fish in danger, and the last
> thing I want to do is to hurt anything.

It happens. You will learn from these experiences. You should have been
warned but the clerk either didn't know or didn't care. Mostly likely
she/he didn't know any better.

> If anyone is truly interested, I will post back in a few days the
> results and let you know how it goes.

I am truly interested so please post back.....

> Thanks again for the replies...I hope this all works out...this seems
> like such a great hobby.

It is, but there are bumps along the way.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Lone_Gunner]

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:46:32 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
wrote:

>
>"Clayton F." > wrote in message
s.com...
>>>
>> Thank you for your response. I came home today and one of my Orandas
>> tail fins were all shredded up and he was/is very lethargic. I've
>> removed the crayfish and I am bringing him back to the store hoping to
>> get some better advice and hopefully some replacement fish.

Crayfish belong in natural ponds or better yet in some crawfish boil
with seasoning and potatoes. Pinch the head suck the tail......
>
>Please be very suspicious of the advice you get from pet shop clerks. Most
>are teens or young people with little or no experience or knowledge about
>fish and aquarium critters. They may mean well and yet cost you a valued
>pet. You would be better off asking HERE or looking for information on the
>net.

Please be suspicious of any info gleemed from these aquaria groups
especially the info given so freely by one Koi Lo aka Carolyn A.
Gulley. She has been wrong more than she has been right.
>
>> I am really upset, I had a nice tank going with the 4 goldfish who
>> seemed very, very happy and energetic...now they've lost 1.5 of their
>> brethren. I feel guilty because I put the fish in danger, and the last
>> thing I want to do is to hurt anything.

Then yu do not need to be using info from Koi Lo as its definately
going to do more harm than good one way or another..
>
>It happens. You will learn from these experiences. You should have been
>warned but the clerk either didn't know or didn't care. Mostly likely
>she/he didn't know any better.

I would trust any lfs clerk over what info Koi Lo may give. Koi Lo has
an inferiority complex, and can not stand it when someone knows more
than she does. Typcially lfs clerks know a lot more than she could
comprehend. Carol always knows better, but she always elects to play
dumb when it comes to dong what is right.
>
>> If anyone is truly interested, I will post back in a few days the
>> results and let you know how it goes.
>
>I am truly interested so please post back.....
Yes, Carolyn Gulley is always looking to communicate with anyone that
wiull listen as she usually runs her online friends off in short order
with her attitude. Carol has never been truly anything in her life.,
except a jerk. Most posters already have her number and have her
angle figured out.
>
>> Thanks again for the replies...I hope this all works out...this seems
>> like such a great hobby.
>
>It is, but there are bumps along the way.

I see you as a big bump, more like a speed bump in that trailer park
you live in.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Clayton F.]

Lone_Gunner wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:46:32 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Clayton F." > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >>>
> >> Thank you for your response. I came home today and one of my Orandas
> >> tail fins were all shredded up and he was/is very lethargic. I've
> >> removed the crayfish and I am bringing him back to the store hoping to
> >> get some better advice and hopefully some replacement fish.
>
> Crayfish belong in natural ponds or better yet in some crawfish boil
> with seasoning and potatoes. Pinch the head suck the tail......
> >
> >Please be very suspicious of the advice you get from pet shop clerks. Most
> >are teens or young people with little or no experience or knowledge about
> >fish and aquarium critters. They may mean well and yet cost you a valued
> >pet. You would be better off asking HERE or looking for information on the
> >net.
>
> Please be suspicious of any info gleemed from these aquaria groups
> especially the info given so freely by one Koi Lo aka Carolyn A.
> Gulley. She has been wrong more than she has been right.
> >
> >> I am really upset, I had a nice tank going with the 4 goldfish who
> >> seemed very, very happy and energetic...now they've lost 1.5 of their
> >> brethren. I feel guilty because I put the fish in danger, and the last
> >> thing I want to do is to hurt anything.
>
> Then yu do not need to be using info from Koi Lo as its definately
> going to do more harm than good one way or another..
> >
> >It happens. You will learn from these experiences. You should have been
> >warned but the clerk either didn't know or didn't care. Mostly likely
> >she/he didn't know any better.
>
> I would trust any lfs clerk over what info Koi Lo may give. Koi Lo has
> an inferiority complex, and can not stand it when someone knows more
> than she does. Typcially lfs clerks know a lot more than she could
> comprehend. Carol always knows better, but she always elects to play
> dumb when it comes to dong what is right.
> >
> >> If anyone is truly interested, I will post back in a few days the
> >> results and let you know how it goes.
> >
> >I am truly interested so please post back.....
> Yes, Carolyn Gulley is always looking to communicate with anyone that
> wiull listen as she usually runs her online friends off in short order
> with her attitude. Carol has never been truly anything in her life.,
> except a jerk. Most posters already have her number and have her
> angle figured out.
> >
> >> Thanks again for the replies...I hope this all works out...this seems
> >> like such a great hobby.
> >
> >It is, but there are bumps along the way.
>
> I see you as a big bump, more like a speed bump in that trailer park
> you live in.

I don't know about any of this stuff...but I have another question.

One of the Orandas tail fins were attacked as well, and are shredding.
Will they regenerate? If not, will he be fine like that? I'm thinking
of calling a vetranarian.

[Koi-Lo]

"Clayton F." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
> One of the Orandas tail fins were attacked as well, and are shredding.
> Will they regenerate? If not, will he be fine like that? I'm thinking
> of calling a vetranarian.
==============================================
It should regenerate if you keep the water clean and he's healthy. Watch
for infection such as "fuzzy stuff" where it's shredded, and treat
accordingly. A healthy well fed fish should heal rapidly but the shredded
fins may never look the same again.
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Lone_Gunner]

Yes fins can come back allright. The important thing is to keep thew
water pristine adn paramters in line. A bit of salt may help. As
lomng as it heals up and yu can keep any chance of bacterial infection
away a fishes immune system is pretty darn resilient. It is stressed,
but not like it was stressed for days on end suffering from a illness.
You may want ot get some anti fungal meds just as an prophylactic,
but water changes will provide it all it needs.


On 13 Jun 2006 17:43:45 -0700, "Clayton F."
>wrote:

>
>Lone_Gunner wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 18:46:32 -0500, "Koi-Lo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Clayton F." > wrote in message
>> s.com...
>> >>>
>> >> Thank you for your response. I came home today and one of my Orandas
>> >> tail fins were all shredded up and he was/is very lethargic. I've
>> >> removed the crayfish and I am bringing him back to the store hoping to
>> >> get some better advice and hopefully some replacement fish.
>>
>> Crayfish belong in natural ponds or better yet in some crawfish boil
>> with seasoning and potatoes. Pinch the head suck the tail......
>> >
>> >Please be very suspicious of the advice you get from pet shop clerks. Most
>> >are teens or young people with little or no experience or knowledge about
>> >fish and aquarium critters. They may mean well and yet cost you a valued
>> >pet. You would be better off asking HERE or looking for information on the
>> >net.
>>
>> Please be suspicious of any info gleemed from these aquaria groups
>> especially the info given so freely by one Koi Lo aka Carolyn A.
>> Gulley. She has been wrong more than she has been right.
>> >
>> >> I am really upset, I had a nice tank going with the 4 goldfish who
>> >> seemed very, very happy and energetic...now they've lost 1.5 of their
>> >> brethren. I feel guilty because I put the fish in danger, and the last
>> >> thing I want to do is to hurt anything.
>>
>> Then yu do not need to be using info from Koi Lo as its definately
>> going to do more harm than good one way or another..
>> >
>> >It happens. You will learn from these experiences. You should have been
>> >warned but the clerk either didn't know or didn't care. Mostly likely
>> >she/he didn't know any better.
>>
>> I would trust any lfs clerk over what info Koi Lo may give. Koi Lo has
>> an inferiority complex, and can not stand it when someone knows more
>> than she does. Typcially lfs clerks know a lot more than she could
>> comprehend. Carol always knows better, but she always elects to play
>> dumb when it comes to dong what is right.
>> >
>> >> If anyone is truly interested, I will post back in a few days the
>> >> results and let you know how it goes.
>> >
>> >I am truly interested so please post back.....
>> Yes, Carolyn Gulley is always looking to communicate with anyone that
>> wiull listen as she usually runs her online friends off in short order
>> with her attitude. Carol has never been truly anything in her life.,
>> except a jerk. Most posters already have her number and have her
>> angle figured out.
>> >
>> >> Thanks again for the replies...I hope this all works out...this seems
>> >> like such a great hobby.
>> >
>> >It is, but there are bumps along the way.
>>
>> I see you as a big bump, more like a speed bump in that trailer park
>> you live in.
>
>I don't know about any of this stuff...but I have another question.
>
>One of the Orandas tail fins were attacked as well, and are shredding.
>Will they regenerate? If not, will he be fine like that? I'm thinking
>of calling a vetranarian.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[dc]

"Clayton F." > wrote in
oups.com:

> One of the Orandas tail fins were attacked as well, and are shredding.
> Will they regenerate? If not, will he be fine like that? I'm
> thinking of calling a vetranarian.

The tail fin will probably heal just fine provided your water parameters
are not off-spec. If you have been keeping up on your water changes you
should not have a problem.

Keep a close on the frayed fins. If they start to develop a whitish film
and a tattered appearance or they take on a brownish eroded appearance than
an external bacterial infection may be setting in which will stress the
fish and hinder the healing process. Consider using basic aquarium salt or
something like Melafix as a mild anti-bacteria remedy.