Ulcers on Koi - HELP Please

[acornscone]

I have 5 koi, about 15 inches each in my 1300 gallon pond. A couple
days ago, one of the koi was found dead and it had some ulcerations on
its underside near the vent. I checked the other koi and two of them
had what looked like half their lip was disintegrated and red like
bloody meat. Another had a red ulcer looking area about one inch in
diameter on its side and the last one had about a 1/4 inch red spot on
the outside of one gill flap. I love these fish and have had them in
my pond for 12 years.......The ulcers look really scary, and our fish
store owner told me that it is probably a koi virus that I got along
with the 5 new three inch koi that I bought last September, but it was
latent until the water warmed up recently. I had quaranteened those
new koi for one month, with no problems, but two of those died last
month for no reason and I could see nothing wrong with their bodies.
The three little ones left seem to be just fine, and the fish store
says that they are probably resistant carriers of the virus that is
causing the ulcers on the larger fish. He said the only way to treat
is with massive antibiotics and hopefully the virus runs its cycle
before killing the koi, and this would also cover in case it is a
bacteria instead of virus. I am treating with Tetracycline and
Trimethiazole in a 30 gallon hospital bin, but that is awfully small
for these three big koi, and I'm afraid other things will go wrong.
Any suggestions on treating my whole 1300 gallon pond and the other
three little koi with it? I tried a topical antibiotic, but actually
injured two of the fish worse while trying to handle them, so I've
given up on that method. I really appreciate any advice, thanks in
advance.
Marianne

[WHAtkinsJR]

Toss em in the compost pile. Fish are nothing but trouble anyhow
espeically in the hands of folks looking to get info for their well
being and care off USENET........
On 4 Jul 2006 17:27:17 -0700, "acornscone" >
wrote:

>I have 5 koi, about 15 inches each in my 1300 gallon pond. A couple
>days ago, one of the koi was found dead and it had some ulcerations on
>its underside near the vent. I checked the other koi and two of them
>had what looked like half their lip was disintegrated and red like
>bloody meat. Another had a red ulcer looking area about one inch in
>diameter on its side and the last one had about a 1/4 inch red spot on
>the outside of one gill flap. I love these fish and have had them in
>my pond for 12 years.......The ulcers look really scary, and our fish
>store owner told me that it is probably a koi virus that I got along
>with the 5 new three inch koi that I bought last September, but it was
>latent until the water warmed up recently. I had quaranteened those
>new koi for one month, with no problems, but two of those died last
>month for no reason and I could see nothing wrong with their bodies.
>The three little ones left seem to be just fine, and the fish store
>says that they are probably resistant carriers of the virus that is
>causing the ulcers on the larger fish. He said the only way to treat
>is with massive antibiotics and hopefully the virus runs its cycle
>before killing the koi, and this would also cover in case it is a
>bacteria instead of virus. I am treating with Tetracycline and
>Trimethiazole in a 30 gallon hospital bin, but that is awfully small
>for these three big koi, and I'm afraid other things will go wrong.
>Any suggestions on treating my whole 1300 gallon pond and the other
>three little koi with it? I tried a topical antibiotic, but actually
>injured two of the fish worse while trying to handle them, so I've
>given up on that method. I really appreciate any advice, thanks in
>advance.
>Marianne

You can reach -Ed Alston at

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[~ janj]

On 4 Jul 2006 17:27:17 -0700, "acornscone" > wrote:

>I have 5 koi, about 15 inches each in my 1300 gallon pond. A couple
>days ago, one of the koi was found dead and it had some ulcerations on
>its underside near the vent. I checked the other koi and two of them
>had what looked like half their lip was disintegrated and red like
>bloody meat. Another had a red ulcer looking area about one inch in
>diameter on its side and the last one had about a 1/4 inch red spot on
>the outside of one gill flap. I love these fish and have had them in
>my pond for 12 years.......The ulcers look really scary, and our fish
>store owner told me that it is probably a koi virus that I got along
>with the 5 new three inch koi that I bought last September, but it was
>latent until the water warmed up recently. I had quaranteened those
>new koi for one month, with no problems, but two of those died last
>month for no reason and I could see nothing wrong with their bodies.
>The three little ones left seem to be just fine, and the fish store
>says that they are probably resistant carriers of the virus that is
>causing the ulcers on the larger fish. He said the only way to treat
>is with massive antibiotics and hopefully the virus runs its cycle
>before killing the koi, and this would also cover in case it is a
>bacteria instead of virus. I am treating with Tetracycline and
>Trimethiazole in a 30 gallon hospital bin, but that is awfully small
>for these three big koi, and I'm afraid other things will go wrong.
>Any suggestions on treating my whole 1300 gallon pond and the other
>three little koi with it? I tried a topical antibiotic, but actually
>injured two of the fish worse while trying to handle them, so I've
>given up on that method. I really appreciate any advice, thanks in
>advance.
>Marianne

Hi Marianne,

Though I hate to admit, and not as harshly as the troll, that actually
there is some truth to what they typed. If the fish are really bad, and the
situation is making it worst by the small hospital tank, you may have to
put them down and start over. As far as it being a virus.... well... It is
really expensive to find out. So I'm going to give you several options:

1) Put all sick fish down. Set up a proper Q-tank w/filter system, put one
of the healthy, but suspect fish, in the Q-tank to get the filter going.
Once the filter is going, buy a small koi (from a different dealer) and see
what happens.

Btw, ALL GOOD DEALERS should be Quarantining and heating ALL KOI up before
you buy them. If not, find another dealer. There is NO REASON the buyer
should have to deal with viruses, as there are proven methods to stop it at
the dealers! You still need to quarantine for other reasons:
http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_details.php?article_id=195&name=Newest%20Articles

2) Check out www.akca.org and see if there is a koi club in your area with
a trained KHA (koi health advisor) who will come out free (or maybe for the
price of gas depending on where you're located). They will check your water
parameters, scrape and scope your fish and give you a much better idea of
what is going on then anyone can over the Internet.

3) Fill out my sick fish form list under Sick Fish or Pond Form in
Rec.ponds (I will repost it).

4) If you really want to treat these fish, I highly suggest you put down
the worst 1, and try to save only 2. 30 gallons is not enough for 3 fish
that size. Actually 2 is 2 many, but koi do better in pairs than loners.
For ulcers Tricide-Neo is what you need. I can walk you thru that.

You said you did treat the fish, but damaged it worst. What did you treat
it with?

~ jan www.jjspond.us you can e-mail me off the website, I'd like to know
what you decide and what works for you.
-----------------

Also ponding troll free at:
http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium

[[email protected]]

call Jo Ann Burke 251-649-4790 for help. Ingrid

"acornscone" > wrote:

>I have 5 koi, about 15 inches each in my 1300 gallon pond. A couple
>days ago, one of the koi was found dead and it had some ulcerations on
>its underside near the vent. I checked the other koi and two of them
>had what looked like half their lip was disintegrated and red like
>bloody meat. Another had a red ulcer looking area about one inch in
>diameter on its side and the last one had about a 1/4 inch red spot on
>the outside of one gill flap. I love these fish and have had them in
>my pond for 12 years.......The ulcers look really scary, and our fish
>store owner told me that it is probably a koi virus that I got along
>with the 5 new three inch koi that I bought last September, but it was
>latent until the water warmed up recently. I had quaranteened those
>new koi for one month, with no problems, but two of those died last
>month for no reason and I could see nothing wrong with their bodies.
>The three little ones left seem to be just fine, and the fish store
>says that they are probably resistant carriers of the virus that is
>causing the ulcers on the larger fish. He said the only way to treat
>is with massive antibiotics and hopefully the virus runs its cycle
>before killing the koi, and this would also cover in case it is a
>bacteria instead of virus. I am treating with Tetracycline and
>Trimethiazole in a 30 gallon hospital bin, but that is awfully small
>for these three big koi, and I'm afraid other things will go wrong.
>Any suggestions on treating my whole 1300 gallon pond and the other
>three little koi with it? I tried a topical antibiotic, but actually
>injured two of the fish worse while trying to handle them, so I've
>given up on that method. I really appreciate any advice, thanks in
>advance.
>Marianne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Snooze]

> wrote in message
...
> call Jo Ann Burke 251-649-4790 for help. Ingrid
>

One would question the wisdom in posting a phone number in a public forum
that is so heavily laden with trolls. Second, would you call a random number
posted online by someone?

A newbie would question if that phone number was legit, because it sure
reminds me of the proverbial bathroom notice. "for a good time, call Jo Ann
Burke, 251-555-1212"

-S

[[email protected]]

a quick search of the archives will show that Jo Ann is the Goldfish Guru. She is
one of the leading experts in Goldfish and koi. Interestingly, people DO call her
for help and are very glad to have done it. Ingrid

"Snooze" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
...
>> call Jo Ann Burke 251-649-4790 for help. Ingrid
>>
>
>One would question the wisdom in posting a phone number in a public forum
>that is so heavily laden with trolls. Second, would you call a random number
>posted online by someone?
>
>A newbie would question if that phone number was legit, because it sure
>reminds me of the proverbial bathroom notice. "for a good time, call Jo Ann
>Burke, 251-555-1212"
>
>-S
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Jeanne]

Marianne....
I suspect that there are different kinds of "ulcers" to fight with. I have
a big, 25-year-old koi that has had an ulcer of some kind on its back all
its life. He flashes occasionally but generally seems happy enough and has
not spread his ulcer to the others. So, I would caution that you may not be
too quick to kill them. Good luck.....

"acornscone" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I have 5 koi, about 15 inches each in my 1300 gallon pond. A couple
> days ago, one of the koi was found dead and it had some ulcerations on
> its underside near the vent. I checked the other koi and two of them
> had what looked like half their lip was disintegrated and red like
> bloody meat. Another had a red ulcer looking area about one inch in
> diameter on its side and the last one had about a 1/4 inch red spot on
> the outside of one gill flap. I love these fish and have had them in
> my pond for 12 years.......The ulcers look really scary, and our fish
> store owner told me that it is probably a koi virus that I got along
> with the 5 new three inch koi that I bought last September, but it was
> latent until the water warmed up recently. I had quaranteened those
> new koi for one month, with no problems, but two of those died last
> month for no reason and I could see nothing wrong with their bodies.
> The three little ones left seem to be just fine, and the fish store
> says that they are probably resistant carriers of the virus that is
> causing the ulcers on the larger fish. He said the only way to treat
> is with massive antibiotics and hopefully the virus runs its cycle
> before killing the koi, and this would also cover in case it is a
> bacteria instead of virus. I am treating with Tetracycline and
> Trimethiazole in a 30 gallon hospital bin, but that is awfully small
> for these three big koi, and I'm afraid other things will go wrong.
> Any suggestions on treating my whole 1300 gallon pond and the other
> three little koi with it? I tried a topical antibiotic, but actually
> injured two of the fish worse while trying to handle them, so I've
> given up on that method. I really appreciate any advice, thanks in
> advance.
> Marianne
>

[[email protected]]

Call Jo Ann Burke. 251-649-4790 between 10am-5pm. Explain everything to her. Ingrid

"Jeanne" > wrote:

>
>Marianne....
>I suspect that there are different kinds of "ulcers" to fight with. I have
>a big, 25-year-old koi that has had an ulcer of some kind on its back all
>its life. He flashes occasionally but generally seems happy enough and has
>not spread his ulcer to the others. So, I would caution that you may not be
>too quick to kill them. Good luck.....
>
>"acornscone" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> I have 5 koi, about 15 inches each in my 1300 gallon pond. A couple
>> days ago, one of the koi was found dead and it had some ulcerations on
>> its underside near the vent. I checked the other koi and two of them
>> had what looked like half their lip was disintegrated and red like
>> bloody meat. Another had a red ulcer looking area about one inch in
>> diameter on its side and the last one had about a 1/4 inch red spot on
>> the outside of one gill flap. I love these fish and have had them in
>> my pond for 12 years.......The ulcers look really scary, and our fish
>> store owner told me that it is probably a koi virus that I got along
>> with the 5 new three inch koi that I bought last September, but it was
>> latent until the water warmed up recently. I had quaranteened those
>> new koi for one month, with no problems, but two of those died last
>> month for no reason and I could see nothing wrong with their bodies.
>> The three little ones left seem to be just fine, and the fish store
>> says that they are probably resistant carriers of the virus that is
>> causing the ulcers on the larger fish. He said the only way to treat
>> is with massive antibiotics and hopefully the virus runs its cycle
>> before killing the koi, and this would also cover in case it is a
>> bacteria instead of virus. I am treating with Tetracycline and
>> Trimethiazole in a 30 gallon hospital bin, but that is awfully small
>> for these three big koi, and I'm afraid other things will go wrong.
>> Any suggestions on treating my whole 1300 gallon pond and the other
>> three little koi with it? I tried a topical antibiotic, but actually
>> injured two of the fish worse while trying to handle them, so I've
>> given up on that method. I really appreciate any advice, thanks in
>> advance.
>> Marianne
>>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[mathewwjohn]

I abhorrence to admit, and not as agonizingly as the troll, that actually there is some accuracy to what they typed. If the angle are absolutely bad, and the situation is authoritative it affliction by the baby hospital tank, you may accept to put them down and alpha over.