Old Tank Syndrome

[JSCharter]

I've heard mention before about old tank syndrome. What parameters are
in place that lead to this problem so I can head such an event off?
Thanks for the help

[Koi-Lo]

"JSCharter" > wrote in message
...
> I've heard mention before about old tank syndrome. What parameters are in
> place that lead to this problem so I can head such an event off?
> Thanks for the help
=====================
Few or no partial water changes over time. Water evaporates and leaves
behind the minerals and pollutants. These build up and build up until the
water in the tank is nothing like the water from your tap.

Do 50% or more water changes at least several times a month to prevent this
from happening.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> I've heard mention before about old tank syndrome. What
> parameters are in place that lead to this problem so I can
> head such an event off? Thanks for the help

Well the expression "Old Tank Syndrome" seem to be more
popular to the North American Audience than (or then? -
will never learn to decide between both..) to the
continental Europeans.

Personally I've ever had tanks with "Old Water", too.

HTH.
--
cu
Marco

[Victor Martinez]

Koi-Lo wrote:
> Few or no partial water changes over time. Water evaporates and leaves
> behind the minerals and pollutants. These build up and build up until
> the water in the tank is nothing like the water from your tap.

This, IME, only applies to non-planted tanks.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[Koi-Lo]

"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
> Koi-Lo wrote:
>> Few or no partial water changes over time. Water evaporates and leaves
>> behind the minerals and pollutants. These build up and build up until
>> the water in the tank is nothing like the water from your tap.
>
> This, IME, only applies to non-planted tanks.
============================
Not true! All my tanks are planted and I've had the water change
drastically from what comes from my tap. When I broke my leg I couldn't do
water changes for weeks - about 2 months. OTS reared it's ugly head when I
started changes. I had to do a little at a time, like 20% every other day.
Even with plants water evaporates and more must be added.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Victor Martinez]

Koi-Lo wrote:
> Not true! All my tanks are planted and I've had the water change
> drastically from what comes from my tap. When I broke my leg I couldn't
> do water changes for weeks - about 2 months. OTS reared it's ugly head
> when I started changes. I had to do a little at a time, like 20% every
> other day. Even with plants water evaporates and more must be added.

I add water when I notice the level has dropped, perhaps once every
month or so? Don't really do water changes, perhaps once a year when I
decide to use the python to clean up some of the debris that tends to
accumulate in the forest of vals. :)
I've been operating like this for many years now with no issues.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[Koi-Lo]

"Victor Martinez" > wrote in message
...
>
> I add water when I notice the level has dropped, perhaps once every month
> or so? Don't really do water changes, perhaps once a year when I decide to
> use the python to clean up some of the debris that tends to accumulate in
> the forest of vals. :)
> I've been operating like this for many years now with no issues.
===========================
That's great. Our tanks need topping up at least once a week in my climate.
I vac the gravel at least twice a month, sometimes more often because
Goldfish are messy fish. ;-) I try to do water changes every week but in
the summer I only get to it 3 times a month. When I do the water changes
they're quite large, leaving only enough to cover the fish's dorsal fins.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[dc]

JSCharter > wrote in news:Xjarg.4966$Oh1.2766
@news01.roc.ny:

> I've heard mention before about old tank syndrome. What parameters are
> in place that lead to this problem so I can head such an event off?
> Thanks for the help

Lack of water changing, mulm removal, and filter maintenance leads to a
large accumulation of undissolved waste particles and high concentrations
of dissolved nitrate (nitric acid) leading to a pH crash over time and a
gradual break-down of the biological filter.

Don't ignore your regular maintenance and you won't encounter this problem.

[dc]

Victor Martinez > wrote in news:4h5aniF1p8d79U1
@individual.net:

> Koi-Lo wrote:
>> Few or no partial water changes over time. Water evaporates and leaves
>> behind the minerals and pollutants. These build up and build up until
>> the water in the tank is nothing like the water from your tap.
>
> This, IME, only applies to non-planted tanks.

That only applies to tanks that a very heavily planted and lightly stocked.

Even in that circumstance, if all you are doing is toping up for
evaporation you are still going to get a gradual build-up of dissolved
elements that plants do not remove.

More often than not, unless you have a ton of plants and only a few small
fish the amount of waste being produced in the aquarium still exceeds the
amount taken up by plants. A planted tank is not a complete ecosystem. The
conversion of nitrate into free nitrogen gas is not occurring.

[Dick]

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:57:24 GMT, "Gail Futoran"
> wrote:

>"dc" > wrote in message
...
>> JSCharter > wrote in news:Xjarg.4966$Oh1.2766
>> @news01.roc.ny:
>>
>>> I've heard mention before about old tank syndrome. What parameters are
>>> in place that lead to this problem so I can head such an event off?
>>> Thanks for the help
>>
>> Lack of water changing, mulm removal, and filter maintenance leads to a
>> large accumulation of undissolved waste particles and high concentrations
>> of dissolved nitrate (nitric acid) leading to a pH crash over time and a
>> gradual break-down of the biological filter.
>>
>> Don't ignore your regular maintenance and you won't encounter this
>> problem.
>
>I agree. My tanks are moderately to heavily planted,
>with small fish and not overstocked, and I still do
>partial water changes at least once per month. My
>largest tank (only a 30 G) especially will experience
>a pH drop if I don't keep up with it.
>
>To add one more thing for the OP: It might be
>worth running some basic water tests until you
>get a feeling for the range of nitrates, pH, and
>hardness in your tanks. My pH tends to run
>high naturally (tap water is hard and alkaline) so
>if I notice pH dropping I know I've let the
>vacuuming go too long!
>
>Gail
>

Might as well add my 2 cents.

I have read that the OTS is not detected by normal aquariam tests.
Some time back, one fellow wanted to test for the condition and found
the equipment ran into hundreds of dollars.

Since the fish are exposed to the change in density over time, current
stock will adapt, thus no warning.

Problems start with addition of new fish. The osmotic pressure in the
old tank is higher than what stock tanks, that is routinely serviced
tanks, are. The new fish cannot exchange their low pressure insides
with the new high pressure fast enough.

I don't "know" anything I have just written, I am merely parroting
what my miserable memory has stored from what others have written.

A Goggle search will bring more mystifying information.

dick

[MkSpanners]

Perhaps the most important concept to bear in mind is that home
aquariums are very "closed systems" - in essence meaning that, with few
exceptions, everything we put in the aquarium stays there, in one form
or another, until we take it out. That ten ounce can of flake food, two
bottles of water conditioner, and even the chemicals present in the
top-off water added during the last six months, are all still in there
somewhere - unless we have taken steps to remove them. Some of these
chemicals will now be in "good" forms (for example, much of the protein
in the fish food will hopefully be in the form of bigger, healthier
fish), but others will occur in forms more detrimental to the
well-being of our prized pets.

The first, and perhaps best indicator of potential problems is rising
nitrate levels. As the end product of the breakdown of fish waste,
nitrate is released into the water on a continual basis. In a neglected
aquarium, nitrate accumulation knows no bounds, sometimes reaching
several hundred parts per million. Many invertebrates and some fish are
directly affected or even killed by high nitrite levels, but elevated
readings should be of concern even to keepers of hardier fish. If
nitrate levels are continually rising, it can be assumed that other,
more threatening but harder to test, compounds are accumulating as
well.

The same processes that reduce ammonia to nitrite to nitrate also
produce an abundance of hydrogen ions, which, if left to their own
accord, acidify the water. In water from some sources that contain few
"buffers" (ions that help stabilize pH by combining with excess
hydrogen or hydroxyl ions), pH will tend to decline steadily just as
the nitrate increases, and again regular pH testing may help alert the
aquarist to impending trouble. However, in more heavily buffered water,
an interesting but more threatening phenomenon occurs. As hydrogen ions
are produced, they are immediately tied up by the buffer ion, and the
pH remains roughly the same - until all the buffer ions are used up. At
this point, the pH drops rapidly, and this sudden "pH crash" can be
very damaging to fish.

If this process is allowed to continue (and a few, very hardy fish
survive), another interesting biochemical phenomena occurs. At a pH of
about 5.5 or less, the bacteria that usually convert ammonia to nitrite
are inhibited, so ammonia levels begin to rise. Strangely, though, the
low pH actually protects the remaining fish by keeping the ammonia in
the non-toxic ammonia (molecular) form instead of the very toxic
ammonium (ionic) form! It is not uncommon to see an old, neglected tank
with a pH reading off the bottom of the chart, ammonia and nitrate off
the top, and a couple of old-timer fish still swimming about.

In some cases, aquariums get little maintenance, but need to be "topped
off" regularly with additional water to replace that which has
evaporated. If the source water is buffered and its addition frequent,
the pH crash and resultant ammonia rise might be forestalled, but a new
problem is encountered. When water evaporates, only pure, clean, H2O
leaves the system; all the other minerals and impurities are left
behind in the aquarium. Adding more water means adding more minerals
(and by definition buffered water has significant amounts of minerals),
in effect concentrating them. Such aquariums often show acceptable pH
and ammonia levels, but high nitrates and hardness.

In some rarer situations, notably in "natural" or some reef aquaria in
which plants, rather than bacteria, are the primary nitrogen consumers,
the inhabitants could be suffering even if nitrate and ammonia readings
are very low, and pH steady or a bit high. Rarely is any aquarium so
well balanced that no by-products are accumulating and no necessary
elements are in decline.

In either of the above scenarios, the fish that survive such declining
water quality often become mere shadows of what they could be. Poor
conditions limit growth and color, and may contribute to conditions
like "hole-in-the-head" and " head-and-lateral-line-erosion". In fact,
the old myth that "a fish will only grow to the size of its container"
may well be attributed to the stunting that occurs in poorly maintained
aquariums. Other fish may appear to remain unaffected, at least to the
casual observer, which may lead to yet another calamity.

An unwary aquarist is most likely to be rudely awakened to Old Tank
Syndrome when he attempts to add new fish to his existing collection.
Many fish "shock out" upon introduction to this very different, harsh
environment and simply perish within a few hours. Others may survive
the initial shock, but the acute stress of this radical change in
environment weakens them, making them more susceptible to infection.
Ironically, disease-causing parasites may well be so successful at
attacking these weakened fish that they quickly multiply to epidemic
proportions, and wreak havoc on the original residents as well.

The aquarist might be inclined to blame the dealer for "selling sick
fish"; after all, he hadn't lost any fish or seen a sign of disease in
several months - or maybe years - before making this purchase.
"Obviously," he argues, "there's nothing wrong with my aquarium, or all
my fish would have died long ago". But that isn't necessarily the case.
The original inhabitants had the opportunity to become slowly
accustomed to waste buildup. The hardier specimens adapted to the
chronic stress and survived. Weaker individuals were overcome one at a
time, perhaps over a period of months, and their deaths attributed to
natural causes.

We'll leave this aquarist and dealer to wrangle over replacement
policies, just as many others have done before them, but hopefully take
with us the knowledge that such tragedies don't need to happen. Good,
regular aquarium maintenance is both the prevention and cure for Old
Tank Syndrome.

Filtration - at least "mechanical" and "chemical" filtration - can
remove some specific compounds from the water, providing the filter
media is cleaned or discarded periodically. "Dirt" that is stuck in a
filter cartridge or adsorbed in a chemical media is still part of the
aquarium environment until the cartridge or media is removed from the
filter. Interestingly, "biological" filtration does not actually result
in the net removal of waste; it simply converts one form into a
different, hopefully less dangerous form (for example toxic ammonia is
converted to less toxic nitrite and then into relatively safe nitrate).


But no filtration system removes everything, and there tends to be a
continuous accumulation of waste products and other compounds in every
aquarium until - you guessed it - a water change is performed. A 25%
water change removes 25% of the nitrate and ammonia and restores 25% of
the buffers, all in one fell swoop. Water changes can be performed as
often as desired, assuming that there is suitable water readily
available, and should be performed as often as necessary to keep
nitrate and pH levels stable. A typical aquarium might require a
minimum of 25% changed every two to four weeks, while a crowded or
overfed tank may need to be serviced weekly.

If a tank is found to be experiencing Old Tank Syndrome, water changes
are again the treatment of choice, but care must be taken not to
attempt too great a change at once. Sudden changes in environment are
always stressful to fish, even if the changes are for the better.
Furthermore, if the aquarium has already gone into the low pH / high
ammonia phase, a rise in pH will change non- toxic ammonia into lethal
ammonium and lead to catastrophe. Daily changes of 15% to 20% are safer
and as effective as the one-time 50% to 90% cleaning we might be
tempted to perform. Constant monitoring of pH, ammonia and nitrate are
highly recommended during this process. If ammonia levels remain high
while pH is being raised, it is wise to back off the water changes for
a few days to allow the ammonia-eating bacteria the chance to catch up.


Once proper conditions have been restored, a regular maintenance
program, including water changing, filter cleaning and perhaps chemical
testing, should be set up and followed. A well- maintained aquarium is
a thing of beauty and wonder, and who knows, it just might rekindle a
long-lost flame.
HTH-JMK