Gravel or Sand

[[email protected]]

Hi All,

A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
cons? Is sand easy clean?

TIA

[Köi-Lö]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
> cons? Is sand easy clean?
>
> TIA
=========================
Gravel is easier to vacuum clean. Sand could become anaerobic and possibly
give off dangerous gasses. My suggestion is to go with the gravel.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Nikki Casali]

wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
> cons? Is sand easy clean?

Go with fine gravel and you have the best of both worlds. If you have a
planted aquarium, it isn't absolutely necessary to vacuum because all
the waste eventually becomes fertiliser. I have sand in all my planted
aquariums because I find plants easier to root and sand won't damage
delicate roots. Large gravel traps food and waste, requiring deep gravel
cleans. With no plants to aerate a sand substrate, pockets with no
access to fresh, oxygenated water can become anaerobic (as mentioned by
the other poster) and give off poisonous gas.

Nikki

[swarvegorilla]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi All,
>
> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
> cons? Is sand easy clean?
>
> TIA
>

ok I'd go gravel and yea I'm gonna do it.... set up an undergravel filter
they do require maintenence and stuff
but they look good in tall tanks

[Dick]

On 19 Aug 2006 09:59:19 -0700,
wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
>rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
>for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
>cons? Is sand easy clean?
>
>TIA

I have gravel in 2 tanks, medium sand in a 75 and fine sand in a 10.
For about a year I did not use sand in a 10 gallon tank
What is better? None, they all work better with some plants than
others. I have Crypts in the 75 with medium sand and the same stock
of Crypts in a 29 gallon with coarse gravel. In the 29 they were
almost to the top of the tank, say 15 inches, they have never grown
above 10 inches in the 75. I have low light levels in all the tanks.

If your question is ease of maintenance, again I draw a neutral. In 3
years I have never cleaned the gravel, whereas the 10 with no gravel I
cleaned the bottom every water change.

I believe the secret to easy tank maintenance is changing a percentage
of water on a regular basis. I change 20% twice weekly. I change
filter cartridges only when more water is going out the over flow than
through filters.

I just re-read your comments. Tall tanks are hard to clean. I have
problems reaching the bottom of my and 29 gallon tanks. I wouldn't
even try cleaning the bottom unless it was bare.

You didn't mention plants. They can be lots of fun, but be sure they
are suitable for the tank lighting. It is measured as watts/gallon,
but I would think a tall tank less light would reach the bottom.

You certainly are a good friend.

dick

[Larry Blanchard]

wrote:

> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
> cons? Is sand easy clean?

Another consideration which hasn't been mentioned is that bottom rooters can
kick up sand easier than gravel. I've got sand in a tank with catfish and
I'm constantly cleaning sand off of the leaves of low plants with spreading
leaves.

If your friend is going to have live plants, tell him to go with EcoComplete.
A bit spendy, but has all the nutrients plants need.

If not, tell him to get some traction sand (also called tube sand) and sift
out the fine stuff. What's left is just about the perfect size. Might be a
bit hard to find at this time of year, although that would depend on where he
lives.

Oops. I just noticed the "uk" in the address. I don't know if either
traction sand or EcoComplete is available in the UK. But the advice to use
gravel still stands.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[swarvegorilla]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
>> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
>> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
>> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
>> cons? Is sand easy clean?
>
> Another consideration which hasn't been mentioned is that bottom rooters
> can
> kick up sand easier than gravel. I've got sand in a tank with catfish and
> I'm constantly cleaning sand off of the leaves of low plants with
> spreading
> leaves.
>
> If your friend is going to have live plants, tell him to go with
> EcoComplete.
> A bit spendy, but has all the nutrients plants need.
>
> If not, tell him to get some traction sand (also called tube sand) and
> sift
> out the fine stuff. What's left is just about the perfect size. Might be
> a
> bit hard to find at this time of year, although that would depend on where
> he
> lives.
>
> Oops. I just noticed the "uk" in the address. I don't know if either
> traction sand or EcoComplete is available in the UK. But the advice to
> use
> gravel still stands.
>
> --
> It's turtles, all the way down


You can always mix gravel or shellgrit with the sand to compact/settle it.
If I was to reccomend sand I'd go with the sandblasting 'garnet' sand
takes a bit to clean but VERY heavy and holds plants down well and doesn't
get sucked into impellors.
I say keep sand with fish that live over sand and gravel for those that live
over gravel.
that eco-complete stuff is good plant substrate tho. roots get stuck into it
hey

[carlrs]

wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
> cons? Is sand easy clean?
>
> TIA

I have used mixtures of gravels with success. The fine will settle to
the bottom while the course gravel will remain at the top. The
advantage is have course gravel to trap the larger debris, more aerobic
bacteria, and is easier to vacuum. The fine is better for Many plants
(but not all). Also with proper maintenance (regular water changes),
anaerobic bacteria can be useful for Nitrate removal, the problem with
anaerobic bacteria is when too much builds up, then the gravel gets
stirred up releasing too much poisonous gas at once. An example of this
on a large scale just happened at the Salton Sea in California, where
the bottom got stirred up by wind storms, causing a massive fish die
off. Under normal conditions these gases float to the surface and are
released harmlessly into the atmosphere.

Carl

[Dick]

On 20 Aug 2006 15:06:44 -0700, "carlrs"
> wrote:

>
wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
>> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
>> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
>> cons? Is sand easy clean?
>>
>> TIA
>
>I have used mixtures of gravels with success. The fine will settle to
>the bottom while the course gravel will remain at the top. The
>advantage is have course gravel to trap the larger debris, more aerobic
>bacteria, and is easier to vacuum. The fine is better for Many plants
>(but not all). Also with proper maintenance (regular water changes),
>anaerobic bacteria can be useful for Nitrate removal, the problem with
>anaerobic bacteria is when too much builds up, then the gravel gets
>stirred up releasing too much poisonous gas at once. An example of this
>on a large scale just happened at the Salton Sea in California, where
>the bottom got stirred up by wind storms, causing a massive fish die
>off. Under normal conditions these gases float to the surface and are
>released harmlessly into the atmosphere.
>
>Carl

"Stir, don't shake please."

I always wondered about possibility of sediment being toxic. I found
a dead fish the morning after doing a major plant weeding. Could be
coincidence or stress also. I know the fish take hours to days to
settle after I make a lengthy pursuit of a fish. I have actually
decided to leave the fish stay where they are even if I have good
intentions in making a move such as fish getting too large for the
tank they are in.

dick

[Eoghan]

Go for sand it looks better and is easier to clean, all you have to do is aggitate to sand. Also food dosen't get lost in gaps as it does in gravel. thus meaning it's easier to keep. Sand is also better for keeping corys who can easily find food in the sand while scavenging. While in gravel their "whiskers" can easily become infected.

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
> rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
> for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
> cons? Is sand easy clean?
>
> TIA

Thanks everyone who replied.

[[email protected]]

In message >, Dick
> writes
>On 19 Aug 2006 09:59:19 -0700,
>wrote:
>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
>>rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
>>for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
>>cons? Is sand easy clean?
>>
>>TIA
>
>I have gravel in 2 tanks, medium sand in a 75 and fine sand in a 10.
>For about a year I did not use sand in a 10 gallon tank
>What is better? None, they all work better with some plants than
>others. I have Crypts in the 75 with medium sand and the same stock
>of Crypts in a 29 gallon with coarse gravel. In the 29 they were
>almost to the top of the tank, say 15 inches, they have never grown
>above 10 inches in the 75. I have low light levels in all the tanks.
>
>If your question is ease of maintenance, again I draw a neutral. In 3
>years I have never cleaned the gravel, whereas the 10 with no gravel I
>cleaned the bottom every water change.
>

Okay, regular water changes cut down on cleaning. But if you have to
clean sand how is it done? Rinsing in a bucket? Wouldn't getting it out
disturb any poisonous gases?

>I believe the secret to easy tank maintenance is changing a percentage
>of water on a regular basis. I change 20% twice weekly. I change
>filter cartridges only when more water is going out the over flow than
>through filters.
>
>I just re-read your comments. Tall tanks are hard to clean. I have
>problems reaching the bottom of my and 29 gallon tanks. I wouldn't
>even try cleaning the bottom unless it was bare.
>
>You didn't mention plants. They can be lots of fun, but be sure they
>are suitable for the tank lighting. It is measured as watts/gallon,
>but I would think a tall tank less light would reach the bottom.

I've found a lighting formula that takes into account the height of the
tank.

http://faq.thekrib.com/plant-lighting.html


My friend really likes fish, most times he passes any body of water he
stops and looks for them, but he's tried setting up a tank before and
been unsuccessful.

He was interested to hear about Eco-Complete, which is available in the
UK by mail order, but in the past plants have been one of his problems.
If he gets Eco I gather it would be a good idea to avoid bottom feeders
that would stir it up as it may coat lower leaves and get into pumps
and such where it could do damage.


I've talked to him about his last attempt with plants, the story is as
follows. He went into a fish shop and picked a couple of healthy
looking plants more or less at random, put them straight into warm
water nestling the little plastic root pot into pea gravel. He did have
a fluorescent tube that was supposed to be a good for plants, but he
can't remember the wattage. He added liquid fertiliser as per the
instructions, but after a couple of days the plants started to slowly
rot and after about a week the water was getting bad. There were no
fish in the tank.

I've followed a link from Netmax's site and found a kind of plant
generator based on plant size and water conditions. So I might
recommend getting specific types by mail order.

>
>You certainly are a good friend.

He's done me some good turns in the past. Now it's suspected he's
starting to suffer from depression, as part of which he is showing
reduced motivation for everything at the moment. I know that is being
looked into.
However he has always wanted a nice tank, but never liked study, so
part of my helping is research. I'm reading some of the websites listed
in the newbie thread, but I hope you won't mind when I'm back with more
questions because, as you can imagine, I'm quite keen for it to go
smoothly.

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> Okay, regular water changes cut down on cleaning. But if
> you have to clean sand how is it done? Rinsing in a
> bucket? Wouldn't getting it out disturb any poisonous
> gases?

Hmm.., I'm not Dick but Marco..! :-) All my tanks are
"sandy" and I've never cleaned the bottom or changed the
sand in my tanks. So please let it undisturbed..

For a tropical tank I would recommend to add some MTS..!
Snails that love to dig around in the bottom and that will
clean it steadily..

>>I change 20% twice weekly.
>>I change filter cartridges only when more water is going
>>out the over flow than through filters.

That's okay..!

>>You didn't mention plants. They can be lots of fun, but
>>be sure they
>>are suitable for the tank lighting. It is measured as
>>watts/gallon, but I would think a tall tank less light
>>would reach the bottom.

Hmm.., there are some (few!!!) low light plants, too..

> I've talked to him about his last attempt with plants, the
> story is as follows. He went into a fish shop and picked a
> couple of healthy looking plants more or less at random,
> put them straight into warm water nestling the little
> plastic root pot into pea gravel. He did have a
> fluorescent tube that was supposed to be a good for
> plants, but he can't remember the wattage. He added liquid
> fertiliser as per the instructions, but after a couple of
> days the plants started to slowly rot and after about a
> week the water was getting bad. There were no fish in the
> tank.

Life is so cruel..! ;-) The most plants love sand..

> I've followed a link from Netmax's site and found a kind
> of plant generator based on plant size and water
> conditions. So I might recommend getting specific types by
> mail order.

You'll reach NetMax _there_ , too..

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W2DC5199D

> I'm reading some
> of the websites listed in the newbie thread, but I hope
> you won't mind when I'm back with more questions because,
> as you can imagine, I'm quite keen for it to go smoothly.

Ask here or _there_ - I'm sure you'll get helpful answers.
In any case..!
--
cu
Marco

[Köi-Lö]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>>
> I've talked to him about his last attempt with plants, the story is as
> follows. He went into a fish shop and picked a couple of healthy
> looking plants more or less at random, put them straight into warm
> water nestling the little plastic root pot into pea gravel.
He did have
> a fluorescent tube that was supposed to be a good for plants, but he
> can't remember the wattage. He added liquid fertiliser as per the
> instructions, but after a couple of days the plants started to slowly
> rot and after about a week the water was getting bad. There were no
> fish in the tank.
==================
Keep in mind that many shops are selling HOUSEPLANTS as aquarium plants.
It's a dishonest thing to do as these plants are doomed to die, rot and foul
the water. You must make sure they're aquarium plants, not house plants.
The clerks wont tell you, and probably don't know themselves.

--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Dick]

On 21 Aug 2006 10:07:44 -0700,
wrote:

>In message >, Dick
> writes
>>On 19 Aug 2006 09:59:19 -0700,
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All,
>>>
>>>A friend is setting up a fresh water tank he has been given. It's tall
>>>rather than long and fits in a corner unit. He's not sure weather to go
>>>for sand or gravel at the bottom of the tank. What are the pro's and
>>>cons? Is sand easy clean?
>>>
>>>TIA
>>
>>I have gravel in 2 tanks, medium sand in a 75 and fine sand in a 10.
>>For about a year I did not use sand in a 10 gallon tank
>>What is better? None, they all work better with some plants than
>>others. I have Crypts in the 75 with medium sand and the same stock
>>of Crypts in a 29 gallon with coarse gravel. In the 29 they were
>>almost to the top of the tank, say 15 inches, they have never grown
>>above 10 inches in the 75. I have low light levels in all the tanks.
>>
>>If your question is ease of maintenance, again I draw a neutral. In 3
>>years I have never cleaned the gravel, whereas the 10 with no gravel I
>>cleaned the bottom every water change.
>>
>
>Okay, regular water changes cut down on cleaning. But if you have to
>clean sand how is it done? Rinsing in a bucket? Wouldn't getting it out
>disturb any poisonous gases?
>
>>I believe the secret to easy tank maintenance is changing a percentage
>>of water on a regular basis. I change 20% twice weekly. I change
>>filter cartridges only when more water is going out the over flow than
>>through filters.
>>
>>I just re-read your comments. Tall tanks are hard to clean. I have
>>problems reaching the bottom of my and 29 gallon tanks. I wouldn't
>>even try cleaning the bottom unless it was bare.
>>
>>You didn't mention plants. They can be lots of fun, but be sure they
>>are suitable for the tank lighting. It is measured as watts/gallon,
>>but I would think a tall tank less light would reach the bottom.
>
>I've found a lighting formula that takes into account the height of the
>tank.
>
>http://faq.thekrib.com/plant-lighting.html
>
>
>My friend really likes fish, most times he passes any body of water he
>stops and looks for them, but he's tried setting up a tank before and
>been unsuccessful.
>
>He was interested to hear about Eco-Complete, which is available in the
>UK by mail order, but in the past plants have been one of his problems.
>If he gets Eco I gather it would be a good idea to avoid bottom feeders
>that would stir it up as it may coat lower leaves and get into pumps
>and such where it could do damage.
>
>
>I've talked to him about his last attempt with plants, the story is as
>follows. He went into a fish shop and picked a couple of healthy
>looking plants more or less at random, put them straight into warm
>water nestling the little plastic root pot into pea gravel. He did have
>a fluorescent tube that was supposed to be a good for plants, but he
>can't remember the wattage. He added liquid fertiliser as per the
>instructions, but after a couple of days the plants started to slowly
>rot and after about a week the water was getting bad. There were no
>fish in the tank.
>
>I've followed a link from Netmax's site and found a kind of plant
>generator based on plant size and water conditions. So I might
>recommend getting specific types by mail order.
>
>>
>>You certainly are a good friend.
>
>He's done me some good turns in the past. Now it's suspected he's
>starting to suffer from depression, as part of which he is showing
>reduced motivation for everything at the moment. I know that is being
>looked into.
>However he has always wanted a nice tank, but never liked study, so
>part of my helping is research. I'm reading some of the websites listed
>in the newbie thread, but I hope you won't mind when I'm back with more
>questions because, as you can imagine, I'm quite keen for it to go
>smoothly.

I hope your friend gets good medical advice. So much can be done with
pills these days. I don't have any faith in talk-therapy.

Don't hold your breath for it going "smoothly." My tanks didn't reach
that goal for a year or more.

You're still a good mate.

dick