Koi & goldfish acting differently

[John M. Darnielle]

Hi!

First, congrats if you are a ponder who hasn't been driven away from this
group by the late unpleasantness.

Second, my Koi and goldfish, about 12 in a 450 gallon pond, average length 6
", have recently been spending most of their time at the surface under the
fountain, They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and
prefer to graze on the azolla that has grown on about 1/4 of the surface.

I've checked the chemistry, no ammonia, nitrates, salt at .05, ph at 7.4.
The fountain seems to put plenty of air into the pond. Temp is at 64. I grew
concerned when one fish died. Any ideas would be appreciated.

--
John M. Darnielle
Remove obvious phrase from address to e-mail me

[Köi-Lö]

*Note: I am again being impersonated by a troll, so there are two "Koi-Los"
on this NG.

"John M. Darnielle" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hi!
>
> First, congrats if you are a ponder who hasn't been driven away from this
> group by the late unpleasantness.

Many of us are still here.

> Second, my Koi and goldfish, about 12 in a 450 gallon pond, average length
> 6 ", have recently been spending most of their time at the surface under
> the fountain,

You have way too many fish in such a small pond. Even if you have good
aeration and filtration. Koi reach 3' in length and goldfish can reach a
foot long or more. It sounds like your fish are suffocating or the water
(go you do regular partial water changes?) has a problem.

They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and
> prefer to graze on the azolla that has grown on about 1/4 of the surface.

> I've checked the chemistry, no ammonia, nitrates, salt at .05, ph at 7.4.
> The fountain seems to put plenty of air into the pond. Temp is at 64. I
> grew concerned when one fish died. Any ideas would be appreciated.

You need to put in a much larger pond or find homes for all the koi. Keep a
few goldfish and start doing partial water changes ASAP.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[~ janj]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 07:17:07 -0600, "John M. Darnielle"
> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>First, congrats if you are a ponder who hasn't been driven away from this
>group by the late unpleasantness.
>
>Second, my Koi and goldfish, about 12 in a 450 gallon pond, average length 6
>", have recently been spending most of their time at the surface under the
>fountain, They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and
>prefer to graze on the azolla that has grown on about 1/4 of the surface.
>
>I've checked the chemistry, no ammonia, nitrates, salt at .05, ph at 7.4.
>The fountain seems to put plenty of air into the pond. Temp is at 64. I grew
>concerned when one fish died. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Hi John,

Your fish could have parasites of the gills that are causing them to pipe
at the surface. What is your Nitrite & KH?

How many, in this koi/goldfish mix, are koi? ~ jan
-----------------

Also ponding troll free at:
http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium

[Brian55]

John M. Darnielle Wrote:
> Hi!
>
> First, congrats if you are a ponder who hasn't been driven away from
> this
> group by the late unpleasantness.
>
> Second, my Koi and goldfish, about 12 in a 450 gallon pond, average
> length 6
> ", have recently been spending most of their time at the surface under
> the
> fountain, They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and
>
> prefer to graze on the azolla that has grown on about 1/4 of the
> surface.
>
> I've checked the chemistry, no ammonia, nitrates, salt at .05, ph at
> 7.4.
> The fountain seems to put plenty of air into the pond. Temp is at 64. I
> grew
> concerned when one fish died. Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
> --
> John M. Darnielle
> Remove obvious phrase from address to e-mail me

I dont like the sound of them sitting under the fountain. This is
usually a sign of stress. You may be overstocked. Do you add salt to
your pond? If no I would recommend that you do. Salt in the water
reduces stress on gills. The gills can be damaged if there is even a
small build up of nitrite. If its a big pond you will need quite a
lot of salt. Contact a reputable fish supply shop for salt supply &
recommended salt levels. Don't delay!




--
Brian55

[Köi-Lö]

=?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=<$##$$@$##$$.#$$>wrote:

> *Note: I am again being impersonated by a troll, so there are two
> "Koi-Los" on this NG.

I am not a troll, =?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=. You however, are a
****chop.

> >.

You must be like a kid at a candy store.

> Why is it called MENstruation?

Why bother to keep on going, =?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=? You cannot get
through life on your own strength. You will keep failing and you will go
deeper and deeper into despair. Kill yourself.

> "John M.

If you don't take your time, in time you will have no time.

> Darnielle" > wrote in message
> ..

Two experts. Maybe you ought to talk to a neutral, like an ex-Jesuit.

> My grandma had a heart attack, and I needed to tell her she might die
> soon.

Hey, it could be worse. You could be fat.

> >.

You just never know.

> I dread mornings. My anxiety just leads to more problems.

Note to self: Back away from the retard.

> Many of us are still here.

We could stand toe-to-toe like this for hours, the way they did in old
vaudeville routines.

> >.

Your hair is dry and brittle and old.

> I get this buzzing anxiety in my head.

You really do have personal issues, don't you,
=?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=?

> >.

Crazy comebacks.

> I haven't sorted out my personal hygeine issues yet.

Try blowing your brains out with a.44 magnum. I recommend a Ruger.

> You have way too many fish in such a small pond.

I can't stand the sound of your voice.

> Even if you have good aeration and filtration.

If you hurt yourself, that's something else.

> Koi reach 3' in length and goldfish can reach a foot long or more.

And more.

> It sounds like your fish are suffocating or the water (go you do
> regular partial water changes?) has a problem.

That's NORMAL, don't listen to the trolls who are trying to convince you
that you have a problem.

> >.

If I leave, what are you going to do?

> No. Today is my 1st day on paxil.

It could be worse, =?iso-8859-1?B?S/ZpLUz2?=. You could have lost your
only testicle.

> They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and.

You are making me hungry.

> >.

You're so insecure about what I do at my work.

> >.

People don't like you.

> You need to put in a much larger pond or find homes for all the koi.

I don't know you.

> Keep a few goldfish and start doing partial water changes ASAP.

Keep your fingers crossed.

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
I do not post from Earthlink.net
All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my
name are by my impersonator.
~~~~ <((((*> ~~~ <{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>}

[Hal]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:29:20 +0100, Brian55
> wrote:

>I dont like the sound of them sitting under the fountain. This is
>usually a sign of stress. You may be overstocked. Do you add salt to
>your pond? If no I would recommend that you do. Salt in the water
>reduces stress on gills. The gills can be damaged if there is even a
>small build up of nitrite. If its a big pond you will need quite a
>lot of salt. Contact a reputable fish supply shop for salt supply &
>recommended salt levels. Don't delay!

Here is what appears on Doc Johnson's site about salt and it's use.
http://tinyurl.com/jg6hp

I use .1% every winter/spring as the fish and parasites are coming out
of the winter cold, but .6% is more salt than I've ever seen fish
subjected to. I'm not sure I could do that to my mutts for two
weeks, simply because they were gulping under the falls. I would be
more inclined to do a dip in .3% salt and raise the pond to .1% and
let it gradually go away in water changes until next winter/spring .
..888lbs per hundred gallons=.1%
2.664lbs per hundred gallons=.3%

Regards,

Hal

[[email protected]]

450 gallons is pretty small pondwise. fish up at the surface always indicates some
kind of lack of oxygen, either because their gills are damaged from toxic water, from
parasites or bacterial infection of the gills OR there isnt enough oxygen in the
water. a fountain doesnt really add that much oxygen. a double outlet cheap air
pump with a couple big stones outta do it for that sized pond tho.
fish dont eat azolla. has the temp dropped suddenly? temp swings is a problem in a
small pond like yours. a drop of more than 4oF in a day can bring on ich. fish with
ich often stop eating. look carefully at your darkest GF for tiny salt like grains.
koi typically get reddish so look at your lightest koi for a red blush.
if it is ich, then there are two types of treatments. raising the salt level and
heat OR, quick cure. DO NOT MIX HIGH SALT WITH QUICK CURE.
Ingrid

"John M. Darnielle" > wrote:
>Second, my Koi and goldfish, about 12 in a 450 gallon pond, average length 6
>", have recently been spending most of their time at the surface under the
>fountain, They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and
>prefer to graze on the azolla that has grown on about 1/4 of the surface.
>
>I've checked the chemistry, no ammonia, nitrates, salt at .05, ph at 7.4.
>The fountain seems to put plenty of air into the pond. Temp is at 64. I grew
>concerned when one fish died. Any ideas would be appreciated.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[John M. Darnielle]

Thanks Ingrid,

It is a small pond, perhaps 5 feet wide and 8 feet long, but with a 4 foot
deep central basin designed to minimize temp swings and create a haven for
the fish during the Colorado winter. I'll go ahead and re-install the winter
air pump and see if that help. I swear my fish are eating the azolla, or at
least playing with it. I see it go in, but not out. The pond is mostly
shaded during the day by a north planted overhanging maple tree, but it gets
enough sun to produce a few hearty lily blooms and cat tail spikes. I'll
look for signs of itch, maybe do a water change if nothing else works.
Increasing the salt level from .05 percent to perhaps .1 might be a good
idea also. Also thanks for the other tips, and for staying put and resisting
the barrage of negativity that has haunted this newsgroup for what seems
forever.

John


> wrote in message
...
> 450 gallons is pretty small pondwise. fish up at the surface always
> indicates some
> kind of lack of oxygen, either because their gills are damaged from toxic
> water, from
> parasites or bacterial infection of the gills OR there isnt enough oxygen
> in the
> water. a fountain doesnt really add that much oxygen. a double outlet
> cheap air
> pump with a couple big stones outta do it for that sized pond tho.
> fish dont eat azolla. has the temp dropped suddenly? temp swings is a
> problem in a
> small pond like yours. a drop of more than 4oF in a day can bring on ich.
> fish with
> ich often stop eating. look carefully at your darkest GF for tiny salt
> like grains.
> koi typically get reddish so look at your lightest koi for a red blush.
> if it is ich, then there are two types of treatments. raising the salt
> level and
> heat OR, quick cure. DO NOT MIX HIGH SALT WITH QUICK CURE.
> Ingrid
>
> "John M. Darnielle" > wrote:
>>Second, my Koi and goldfish, about 12 in a 450 gallon pond, average length
>>6
>>", have recently been spending most of their time at the surface under the
>>fountain, They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and
>>prefer to graze on the azolla that has grown on about 1/4 of the surface.
>>
>>I've checked the chemistry, no ammonia, nitrates, salt at .05, ph at 7.4.
>>The fountain seems to put plenty of air into the pond. Temp is at 64. I
>>grew
>>concerned when one fish died. Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
> http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
> sign up:
> http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
> website.
> I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Köi-Lö]

>wrote:

> John M.

I don't think it's your mind. I don't think there's enough room in there
for a mind.

> Darnielle Wrote:.

It's under water.

> i'm a guy and theres this other guy in my year at school who i've
> known for quite a while, he says i'm his best friend and stuff and he
> once told me that he thinks he's a homo, he doesn't have any real
> friends and the only reason i'm nice to him is because i feel sorry
> for him but he is soooo annoying, he's always following me round and
> asking to sit by me in class and stuff, my friends always make jokes
> about him fancying me but i just ignore them although i can't help but
> wonder if he does or if he's just looking for a friend.

Eh? Are you serious?

> >.

King kook.

> I am a man of 39 my partner is nearly 16 she fell pregnant after 3
> months of being with me. She told me and I was enraged for 3 days. I
> phoned to meet her for dinner and said I doent want the child. After a
> few days I told her she has to choose between me or the child. My
> parents support me in this.

Don't start up any new relationships, Brian55.

> I dont like the sound of them sitting under the fountain.

I don't like it when you use the word, 'like'.

> This is usually a sign of stress.

This is more fun than anyone's had in a long time.

> You may be overstocked.

I think you are the only person who defines who you are.

> Do you add salt to your pond? If no I would recommend that you do.

If you had half a brain, you'd be dangerous.

> Salt in the water reduces stress on gills.

The world is my womb. I'll open it with my head.

> The gills can be damaged if there is even a small build up of nitrite.

If I can, I will.

> If its a big pond you will need quite a lot of salt. Contact a
> reputable fish supply shop for salt supply & recommended salt levels.

It's hard for everyone.

> Don't delay!

Don't be fresh with me, young man.

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
I do not post from Earthlink.net
All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my
name are by my impersonator.
~~~~ <((((*> ~~~ <{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>}

[Köi-Lö]

>wrote:

> >.

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

> Here is what appears on Doc Johnson's site about salt and it's use.

It's sad, isn't it?

> http://tinyurl.com/jg6hp.

I prefer the light touch.

> What was the best thing BEFORE sliced bread?

Eh? Are you mentally ill or something?

> >.

You mind? [They grabbed your spot]

> I use.

You're doing good, I guess.

> 1% every winter/spring as the fish and parasites are coming out of the
> winter cold, but.

Take two thousand aspirins and don't call me in the morning.

> 6% is more salt than I've ever seen fish subjected to.

Every ball of string unravels.

> I'm not sure I could do that to my mutts for two weeks, simply because
> they were gulping under the falls.

How do you know you should do that to your mutts for two weeks?

> I would be more inclined to do a dip in.

No you wouldn't.

> 3% salt and raise the pond to.

The more you know, the less you need.

> 1% and let it gradually go away in water changes until next
> winter/spring.

It's just as well.

> 888lbs per hundred gallons=.

You know, Americans would find that very strange.

> I think I am killing myself with stress.

You're serious, aren't you, Hal?

> 1% 2.

2?

> 664lbs per hundred gallons=.

You can't tell.

> I think I've got a dose of the clap.

Suicide will free you from personal pain, anguish, depression, debt and
fear, Hal

> 3%.

Cretin.

> Please help me. I can't take much more!! Anxiety?

Note to self: Delete from brain.

> >.

Waste of flesh.

> Regards,.

Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim, laced with invective, as
expected from someone who is adolescent.

> Please someone help my anus hurts

Note to self: Do not respond.

> >.

It's just dangerous.

> Hal.

I don't like either of your attitudes.

> I appreciate your replies to my previous post, your words are
> encouraging. I am really afraid of the road ahead, and it took a lot
> for me to just write an admission to being an alcoholic and post it.

Pass.

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
I do not post from Earthlink.net
All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my
name are by my impersonator.
~~~~ <((((*> ~~~ <{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>}

[Köi-Lö]

:

> 450 gallons is pretty small pondwise.

What do you have to pay for an apartment?

> fish up at the surface always indicates some kind of lack of oxygen,
> either because their gills are damaged from toxic water, from
> parasites or bacterial infection of the gills OR there isnt enough
> oxygen in the water.

It's not that different from heaven.

> a fountain doesnt really add that much oxygen.

That part of you is alive.

> a double outlet cheap air pump with a couple big stones outta do it
> for that sized pond tho.

Big surprise.

> fish dont eat azolla.

Big mac attack!

> has the temp dropped suddenly? temp swings is a problem in a small
> pond like yours.

That's not a problem. Spam is a problem.

> a drop of more than 4oF in a day can bring on ich.

I noticed that.

> fish with ich often stop eating.

You are too fat because you eat too much.

> look carefully at your darkest GF for tiny salt like grains.

Be very careful.

> koi typically get reddish so look at your lightest koi for a red
> blush.

So that's your news?

> if it is ich, then there are two types of treatments.

It's really deep.

> raising the salt level and heat OR, quick cure.

Quick squick?

> DO NOT MIX HIGH SALT WITH QUICK CURE.

Quick squick?

> Ingrid.

Reschedule me. I can't wait more than half an hour.

> >.

I am selling the domain name embarrassment.net and was informed you
might have an interest in it.

> "John M.

It's not going to kill everyone.

> I LIKE TO PLAY MIND GAMES WITH MYSELF INSIDE MY HEAD!!!

My heart bleeds for you.

<aside>
LMFAO

> Darnielle" > wrote:.

You may have expected me to know things I couldn't possibly know.

> I always keep an umbrella with me on hot, summer days just in case it
> rains.

Try blowing your brains out with a.44 magnum. I recommend a Ruger.

> >.

I think your sister's pretty.

> The cushions on my couch are severely worn in.

I recommend a bullet to your temple, .

> >.

It's like an act of treachery.

> I'm afraid of the dark. The doctor says I need behavioral therapy.

Hopefully, you will die painfully in a horrible accident.

> >.

Is that a snapshot of your wife at the beach, or has the Mars Polar
Lander finally started sending back pictures?

> About those red boils on my penis, they are infected.

Note to self: Delete from brain.

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager:
> Puregold Goldfish List at http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/ sign
> up: http://groups.

LITS! Please add me to the LITS O' HAET!

> google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
> www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding
> who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I
> receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold
> website.

LITS! Please add me to the LITS O' HAET!

> I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold
> site.

I didn't suppose you did run nor receive any money from the ads at the
old puregold site.

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Zone 5 next to Lake
> Michigan.

5?

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
I do not post from Earthlink.net
All rude and/or obscene messages posted in my
name are by my impersonator.
~~~~ <((((*> ~~~ <{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>}

[John M. Darnielle]

"John M. Darnielle" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hi!
>
> First, congrats if you are a ponder who hasn't been driven away from this
> group by the late unpleasantness.
>
> Second, my Koi and goldfish, about 12 in a 450 gallon pond, average length
> 6 ", have recently been spending most of their time at the surface under
> the fountain, They've pretty much stopped eating the tetra food sticks and
> prefer to graze on the azolla that has grown on about 1/4 of the surface.
>
> I've checked the chemistry, no ammonia, nitrates, salt at .05, ph at 7.4.
> The fountain seems to put plenty of air into the pond. Temp is at 64. I
> grew concerned when one fish died. Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
> --
> John M. Darnielle
> Remove obvious phrase from address to e-mail me

Turns out that the problem rapidly worsened, to include foul smelling cloudy
water and another dead fish. I drained the pond and discovered a dead bird
on the bottom. The fish were probably fleeing hydrogen sulfide, emmitted
from the birds carcass, and finding partial relief in the filter exhaust
coming from the fountain. All is well. Thanks for the advice i recieved.

John
>
>