Pond Overlay shining though - will it get better?

[Davy]

Just installed a new wildlife pond. The water table is a bit high here so I
weighted the liner down with some stone; and to protect the butyl liner I
put some underliner (overliner?) down on it first.
Filled it for the first time today and the pure white overliner shows very
distinctly. The pond is 5m by 6m and about 50cm deep.

Is it likely to improve?

Davy

[Köi-Lö]

"Davy" > wrote in message
...
> Just installed a new wildlife pond. The water table is a bit high here so
> I
> weighted the liner down with some stone; and to protect the butyl liner I
> put some underliner (overliner?) down on it first.
> Filled it for the first time today and the pure white overliner shows very
> distinctly. The pond is 5m by 6m and about 50cm deep.
>
> Is it likely to improve?
=====================
Are you talking about the edge of the underliner showing beyond the black
liner itself? If so fold it down and hold it in place with a rock necklace.
That will also hide the edge of the black liner and look more natural.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[John Bachman]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:57:14 -0500, Köi-Lö <$##$$@$##$$.#$$> wrote:

>
>"Davy" > wrote in message
...
>> Just installed a new wildlife pond. The water table is a bit high here so
>> I
>> weighted the liner down with some stone; and to protect the butyl liner I
>> put some underliner (overliner?) down on it first.
>> Filled it for the first time today and the pure white overliner shows very
>> distinctly. The pond is 5m by 6m and about 50cm deep.
>>
>> Is it likely to improve?
>=====================
>Are you talking about the edge of the underliner showing beyond the black
>liner itself? If so fold it down and hold it in place with a rock necklace.
>That will also hide the edge of the black liner and look more natural.

Ehhh, I am not sure that the OP has the underliner under the liner or
on top of it.

She said that she wanted to hold it down with rocks but wanted to
protect it from them.

Which is it, white underliner on top or below the black?

John

[Davy]

Just to clarify my post; I have put a patch of underlay on top of the lowest
part of the black butyl and then a bed of gravel on top of the centre of the
underlay (now probably better called overlay!). About 10 inches of white
underlay extends beyond the edge of the gravel and it is this that is
shining through. I cannot trim the underlay since the gravel would then too
easily get under the underlay. Also the exposed edge of the underlay is not
lying flat against the butyl - it billows up a bit. It can only be a matter
of time before some of the gravel finds its way under the 'billows' and may
then damage the butyl. Any thoughts?

cheers Davy

"Davy" > wrote in message
...
> Just installed a new wildlife pond. The water table is a bit high here so
I
> weighted the liner down with some stone; and to protect the butyl liner I
> put some underliner (overliner?) down on it first.
> Filled it for the first time today and the pure white overliner shows very
> distinctly. The pond is 5m by 6m and about 50cm deep.
>
> Is it likely to improve?
>
> Davy
>
>

[John Bachman]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 08:41:43 +0100, "Davy"
> wrote:

>Just to clarify my post; I have put a patch of underlay on top of the lowest
>part of the black butyl and then a bed of gravel on top of the centre of the
>underlay (now probably better called overlay!). About 10 inches of white
>underlay extends beyond the edge of the gravel and it is this that is
>shining through. I cannot trim the underlay since the gravel would then too
>easily get under the underlay. Also the exposed edge of the underlay is not
>lying flat against the butyl - it billows up a bit. It can only be a matter
>of time before some of the gravel finds its way under the 'billows' and may
>then damage the butyl. Any thoughts?
>
>cheers Davy

The white underlayment should be under the black liner. It will
protect against rock damage there as well as on top and will not be
visible.

Like most of my projects, it comes out better the second time.

John

[Hal]

I suppose you mean 1mm butyl liner, here in the states we call that
..040 or 40 mil rubber/roofing liner. It is very resistant to rock
abrasion or tearing when stepped upon, by people, a deer hoof may
punch through, but little else is likely to damage it enough you will
notice in your lifetime.. I have one rubber liner, one plastic formed
and one Permalon liner pond and consider the rubber the toughest,
because it resists abrasion better than Permalon, even though the
Permalon is rated as being stronger.

The white overlay will develop a normal coat of algae and change color
to match the bottom and sides, which will coat with algae too. The
overlay may be a curious sight waving with any current, but soon will
be almost invisible unless you are fortunate enough to have gin clear
water. Personally I wouldn't have put anything over the rubber before
throwing in the rocks. I kept a pond this way for a couple years,
but vacuuming the rocks out to clean the bottom became more of a task
than I can handle, so I cleaned out the river rock and use the pond
for floating plants now.

Regards,

Hal

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 08:41:43 +0100, "Davy"
> wrote:

>Just to clarify my post; I have put a patch of underlay on top of the lowest
>part of the black butyl and then a bed of gravel on top of the centre of the
>underlay (now probably better called overlay!). About 10 inches of white
>underlay extends beyond the edge of the gravel and it is this that is
>shining through. I cannot trim the underlay since the gravel would then too
>easily get under the underlay. Also the exposed edge of the underlay is not
>lying flat against the butyl - it billows up a bit. It can only be a matter
>of time before some of the gravel finds its way under the 'billows' and may
>then damage the butyl. Any thoughts?
>
>cheers Davy
>
>"Davy" > wrote in message
...
>> Just installed a new wildlife pond. The water table is a bit high here so
>I
>> weighted the liner down with some stone; and to protect the butyl liner I
>> put some underliner (overliner?) down on it first.
>> Filled it for the first time today and the pure white overliner shows very
>> distinctly. The pond is 5m by 6m and about 50cm deep.
>>
>> Is it likely to improve?
>>
>> Davy
>>
>>
>

[Köi-Lö]

"Davy" > wrote in message
om...
> Just to clarify my post; I have put a patch of underlay on top of the
> lowest
> part of the black butyl and then a bed of gravel on top of the centre of
> the
> underlay (now probably better called overlay!). About 10 inches of white
> underlay extends beyond the edge of the gravel and it is this that is
> shining through. I cannot trim the underlay since the gravel would then
> too
> easily get under the underlay. Also the exposed edge of the underlay is
> not
> lying flat against the butyl - it billows up a bit. It can only be a
> matter
> of time before some of the gravel finds its way under the 'billows' and
> may
> then damage the butyl. Any thoughts?
=======================
This is going to be all but impossible to clean. I ended up removing all
the gravel and rocks I had in my first pond. They looked great for the first
summer. By the next spring they were all but hidden under a layer of mulm.

Cleaning will be a worse problem for you than a white liner showing. The
liner will probably turn a dark color from algae in time but the gravel and
rocks will collect all kinds of crud.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[sean mckinney]

Meaning no offence but weighing a liner down is a poor fix and in
extreme cases can tear the liner. You would be better served by filling
the pond so that the water level within the liner is above the
ground-water/water-table or as a not so good alternative set up
permanent drainage to lower the water table.
If you liner is bulging inwards because of the water table etc
(ballooning) it means that the water table is to all intents and
purposes level with the pond water, as the water table rises the liner
crushes to keep the pond level with the water table. If the rocks
prevent sections of the liner from crushing and cause taut sections in
the liner the forces and tension in the liner can become large.
For this reason all my ponds are slightly raised with the water level
in each pond ABOVE the surrounding ground. There is no way, barring a
surface flood, that the water table can rise to be level with the pond
and my liners are always pushed out against the soil.




--
sean mckinney

[Davy]

Thanks everyone for the contributions. I think I will go with Sean
McKinney's advice that providing I keep the water level above that in the
surrounding ground then the pond liner will not 'hippo'. So tomorrow I will
wade in and remove the gravel stone and the 'overlay'. I will leave one
large smooth flat stone right in the middle to make sure that no gases can
get trapped under the centre of the liner.

many thanks

David

"Davy" > wrote in message
...
> Just installed a new wildlife pond. The water table is a bit high here so
I
> weighted the liner down with some stone; and to protect the butyl liner I
> put some underliner (overliner?) down on it first.
> Filled it for the first time today and the pure white overliner shows very
> distinctly. The pond is 5m by 6m and about 50cm deep.
>
> Is it likely to improve?
>
> Davy
>
>

[sean mckinney]

I dont think active frogs would be that put out, I dont know about newts
but I would avoid disturbing hibernating amphibians. Elodea can just be
ripped out from the side etc and the disturbance will be minimal, if
they are using it as a water bed leave clumps dense enough to support
them I think frogs are on slightly negatively bouyant so it wont take
much to hold them up.




--
sean mckinney