Cycling... or at least trying to....

[Elizabeth Armstrong]

Ok... I know I posted this before, but this cycling thing has me very
confused ... and slightly worried.

I've been trying to cycle my 10-gallon aquarium for a month to the day now.
I have an undergravel filter in there with my molly that keeps gasping (been
doing it for a week+ now), another molly, four platys, and a betta whose
fins and tail keeps getting mysteriously sliced up. There's also a ruffled
sword plant in there. Ammonia is high (about 3.0), nitrite is 0, Ph is
consistently wavering between 7.8 / 8.0.

I have no idea what's going on, but ammonia has been consistently at 2.0 or
higher since I began (no steady rise like the graphs on websites have). I
just started using Ammo-lock ... nothing really yet to tell from that. I've
been using NitroMax every other day (bacteria thing to help cycle? who
knows... I'm doubting it).

I know I have too many fish in there, though I have been feeding them
sparingly. Is this all just bio-overload?

So my question is this: what can I do to get this thing cycling ... for real
(I've had absolutely no nitrite and its been on perpetual ammonia peak)? And
is there anything other than the number of fish that I'm doing wrong?
Because it still wasn't doing anything for the three weeks when it was just
2 platys and a betta in there.

Help?

Thanks!!

~Elizabeth

[John]

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:02:58 -0500, "Elizabeth Armstrong"
> wrote:

>Ok... I know I posted this before, but this cycling thing has me very
>confused ... and slightly worried.
>
>I've been trying to cycle my 10-gallon aquarium for a month to the day now.
>I have an undergravel filter in there with my molly that keeps gasping (been
>doing it for a week+ now), another molly, four platys, and a betta whose
>fins and tail keeps getting mysteriously sliced up. There's also a ruffled
>sword plant in there. Ammonia is high (about 3.0), nitrite is 0, Ph is
>consistently wavering between 7.8 / 8.0.
>
>I have no idea what's going on, but ammonia has been consistently at 2.0 or
>higher since I began (no steady rise like the graphs on websites have). I
>just started using Ammo-lock ... nothing really yet to tell from that. I've
>been using NitroMax every other day (bacteria thing to help cycle? who
>knows... I'm doubting it).
>
>I know I have too many fish in there, though I have been feeding them
>sparingly. Is this all just bio-overload?
>
>So my question is this: what can I do to get this thing cycling ... for real
>(I've had absolutely no nitrite and its been on perpetual ammonia peak)? And
>is there anything other than the number of fish that I'm doing wrong?
>Because it still wasn't doing anything for the three weeks when it was just
>2 platys and a betta in there.
>
>Help?
>
>Thanks!!
>
>~Elizabeth
>


Here are a few links that could help you:

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html <--- The Krib

http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/water/water.shtml <--- NetMax's
Website

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm <--- Article Link on
Chuck's Site


Those should get you started I know there is lots out there. I was
swamped with all the info when I started look up this topic 2 years
ago.

[Dinky]

"John <-^)) ><" > wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:02:58 -0500, "Elizabeth Armstrong"
| > wrote:
|
| >Ok... I know I posted this before, but this cycling thing has me
very
| >confused ... and slightly worried.
| >
| >I've been trying to cycle my 10-gallon aquarium for a month to the
day now.
| >I have an undergravel filter in there with my molly that keeps
gasping (been
| >doing it for a week+ now), another molly, four platys, and a betta
whose
|

In short, the tank is overloaded, in fact, I'd hazard that it's near
the maximum stocking level. One molly would have been enough to cycle
a ten. UG filters aren't terrific bio-filters, IMO, and IME, and it's
not up to the job of trying to house enough bacteria to process all
the ammonia those fish are creating. If possible, please take a
couple of those fish back to your LFS. In any case, get on an
aggressive water-change regimen if you haven't already. I'd also
recommend the addition of a small powerfilter for better biological
filtration. Also grab a nitrate test kit, I've always found them
useful to determine if the cycle is actually reaching the final step,
among other things.
Finally, I second John's posting of those great links, take a
look-see and please post back with any old thing you need...keep us
informed, most of us started out in this pretty clueless, except for
Netmax, who emerged from the womb a genius of aquaria. <g>

billy

[Graham Broadbridge]

"Elizabeth Armstrong" > wrote in message
...
> Ok... I know I posted this before, but this cycling thing has me very
> confused ... and slightly worried.
>
> I've been trying to cycle my 10-gallon aquarium for a month to the day
now.

Patience :-) Use Ammo-Lock to convert the ammonia to ammonium while the
cycle completes. You're probably a lot closer than you think to it all
starting to work. It does take a long time for the first stage of cycling
to complete under heavily loaded conditions.

Once you start to see nitrite, remember to add 1 or 2 teaspoons of salt to
the aquarium to guard against nitrite poisoning - even add it now if you
like.


Graham.

[NetMax]

"Elizabeth Armstrong" > wrote in message
...
> Ok... I know I posted this before, but this cycling thing has me very
> confused ... and slightly worried.
>
> I've been trying to cycle my 10-gallon aquarium for a month to the day
now.
> I have an undergravel filter in there with my molly that keeps gasping
(been
> doing it for a week+ now), another molly, four platys, and a betta
whose
> fins and tail keeps getting mysteriously sliced up. There's also a
ruffled
> sword plant in there. Ammonia is high (about 3.0), nitrite is 0, Ph is
> consistently wavering between 7.8 / 8.0.
>
> I have no idea what's going on, but ammonia has been consistently at
2.0 or
> higher since I began (no steady rise like the graphs on websites have).
I
> just started using Ammo-lock ... nothing really yet to tell from that.
I've
> been using NitroMax every other day (bacteria thing to help cycle? who
> knows... I'm doubting it).
>
> I know I have too many fish in there, though I have been feeding them
> sparingly. Is this all just bio-overload?
>
> So my question is this: what can I do to get this thing cycling ... for
real
> (I've had absolutely no nitrite and its been on perpetual ammonia
peak)? And
> is there anything other than the number of fish that I'm doing wrong?
> Because it still wasn't doing anything for the three weeks when it was
just
> 2 platys and a betta in there.
>
> Help?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> ~Elizabeth


It can certainly take its time sometimes. Here are some comments, I
apologise if they are pretty basic. When you say you feed sparingly,
think of their stomach being the size of their eyes, and feed once a day
until cycled. Don't allow uneaten food to remain in the tank.

Some items which would slow cycling down are:
Any chlorine/chloramine.
Using RO or DI water.
Turning off the UGF (must run continuously).
Strong sunlight (UV kills bacteria in the water).
Phosphate removers
There are a few others, but if you have live fish in there, then they
would not be applicable.

Gravel vacuuming will help control the ammonia levels. Are you confident
that your test kit(s) are ok? Are you certain that the UGF is working
correctly? There might be one pipe (riser), with air bubbles coming up
or with a powerhead. If there are 2 risers, then each needs to have a
steady flow of water upwards. Using 1 powerhead and leaving the 2nd
riser open would render the UGF useless. For your fish-load, an
additional small powerfilter would be warranted.

Otherwise, you just need to wait it out, knowing that your conditions are
ready. Bacterial seeding from another established aquarium would help.
Keep up the water changes and start adding some aquarium salt. I suggest
you move the Betta into its own container for the duration of the cycle.
You could even float a 1/2g goldfish bowl in the 10g for the Betta (that
would keep him warm). This allows you to use more salt (2 or 3
tablespoons), and add another tablespoon when you do a 5g change (which
you might be doing every 24-36 hours at this rate). Don't forget to w/c
the Betta a few times a week and Ammo-lock is your friend.
--
http://www.netmax.tk/

[NetMax]

"Dinky" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "John <-^)) ><" > wrote in message
> ...
> | On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:02:58 -0500, "Elizabeth Armstrong"
> | > wrote:
> |
> | >Ok... I know I posted this before, but this cycling thing has me
> very
> | >confused ... and slightly worried.
> | >
> | >I've been trying to cycle my 10-gallon aquarium for a month to the
> day now.
> | >I have an undergravel filter in there with my molly that keeps
> gasping (been
> | >doing it for a week+ now), another molly, four platys, and a betta
> whose
> |
>
> In short, the tank is overloaded, in fact, I'd hazard that it's near
> the maximum stocking level. One molly would have been enough to cycle
> a ten. UG filters aren't terrific bio-filters, IMO, and IME, and it's
> not up to the job of trying to house enough bacteria to process all
> the ammonia those fish are creating. If possible, please take a
> couple of those fish back to your LFS. In any case, get on an
> aggressive water-change regimen if you haven't already. I'd also
> recommend the addition of a small powerfilter for better biological
> filtration. Also grab a nitrate test kit, I've always found them
> useful to determine if the cycle is actually reaching the final step,
> among other things.
> Finally, I second John's posting of those great links, take a
> look-see and please post back with any old thing you need...keep us
> informed, most of us started out in this pretty clueless, except for
> Netmax, who emerged from the womb a genius of aquaria. <g>
>
> billy

LOL on womb, might be the _smallest_ grain of truth in that. They had to
come in after me by Caesarean section. Apparently I was in no rush to
enter the world of air-breathers. In hindsight, it was warm in there, I
was fed regularly and it was completely cycled ;~).
--
http://www.netmax.tk/

[Elizabeth Armstrong]

> It can certainly take its time sometimes. Here are some comments, I
> apologise if they are pretty basic. When you say you feed sparingly,
> think of their stomach being the size of their eyes, and feed once a day
> until cycled. Don't allow uneaten food to remain in the tank.
>
> Some items which would slow cycling down are:
> Any chlorine/chloramine.
> Using RO or DI water.
> Turning off the UGF (must run continuously).
> Strong sunlight (UV kills bacteria in the water).
> Phosphate removers
> There are a few others, but if you have live fish in there, then they
> would not be applicable.
>
> Gravel vacuuming will help control the ammonia levels. Are you confident
> that your test kit(s) are ok? Are you certain that the UGF is working
> correctly? There might be one pipe (riser), with air bubbles coming up
> or with a powerhead. If there are 2 risers, then each needs to have a
> steady flow of water upwards. Using 1 powerhead and leaving the 2nd
> riser open would render the UGF useless. For your fish-load, an
> additional small powerfilter would be warranted.
>
> Otherwise, you just need to wait it out, knowing that your conditions are
> ready. Bacterial seeding from another established aquarium would help.
> Keep up the water changes and start adding some aquarium salt. I suggest
> you move the Betta into its own container for the duration of the cycle.
> You could even float a 1/2g goldfish bowl in the 10g for the Betta (that
> would keep him warm). This allows you to use more salt (2 or 3
> tablespoons), and add another tablespoon when you do a 5g change (which
> you might be doing every 24-36 hours at this rate). Don't forget to w/c
> the Betta a few times a week and Ammo-lock is your friend.
> --
> http://www.netmax.tk/
>
>

The UGF is working like you said it should... two with a good flow. I
actually just bought a power filter yesterday (Whisper 10) that I'll put in
tomorrow. I've had 2 tbspoons of aquarium salt in there since I set it up
(recommendation for livebearers... I couldn't find anything about bettas and
salt but he seems pretty happy) that I've been replacing about every two
water changes to keep the amount constant (about 20 to 30 % water changes).
I'll also start feeding them less.

I'm using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master kit ... I wasn't so confident
with the test results before, but I am becoming increasingly so after
testing other water samples.

I checked out those links... thanks! :) I've done a lot of web-research, but
it's nice to do some more.

Thanks so much, everyone.... Unfortunately, I've gotten myself in a bit of a
bad situation with the number of fish (my LFS told me to start w/4 platys or
mollies to cycle... then I lost two of them in the 3 hr drive and "replaced"
them) but I'll keep at it.

Thank you!!

~Elizabeth

[John]

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:03:48 -0500, "Elizabeth Armstrong"
> wrote:

< Snip>
>
>Thanks so much, everyone.... Unfortunately, I've gotten myself in a bit of a
>bad situation with the number of fish (my LFS told me to start w/4 platys or
>mollies to cycle... then I lost two of them in the 3 hr drive and "replaced"
>them) but I'll keep at it.
>
>Thank you!!
>
>~Elizabeth
>


3 HOUR DRIVE for a LFS..... Man do you ever have the bug bad.... and
here I thought going 1 hour one way was a bit much for me. Mind you I
have done the 1 hour trip more than once, some times for only 2
fish.... now that's bad... once it was only for 2 "Siamese Algae
Eaters"


-=< Gandalf >=-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
o
o
/ \ | \ >< (( ->
\| \/ / o
| / | o
\ | / <- )) ><
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[IDzine01]

"Elizabeth Armstrong" > wrote in message >...
> The UGF is working like you said it should... two with a good flow. I
> actually just bought a power filter yesterday (Whisper 10) that I'll put in
> tomorrow. I've had 2 tbspoons of aquarium salt in there since I set it up
> (recommendation for livebearers... I couldn't find anything about bettas and
> salt but he seems pretty happy)

Aquarium salt with bettas is controversial. Some people believe it
might help and others swear off it. (I belong to the later group
personally) It can irritate the bettas slime coat and in large doses
can be fatal but generally it doesn't do much more good then harm. It
may be fine in this instance because you're trying to avoid nitrite
poisoning. Personally, I'm more concerned about the betta being
exposed to so much ammonia. 3 ppm can burn a bettas gills beyond
repair, shorten his life-span and weaken his immune system. I'd get
him out of there and keep him in a heated tank with 100% water changes
regularly until the tank has finished cycling. They are not good
cycling fish and may be suffering because of it. Also, Bettas and
mollies have been know to be bad roommates because bettas tend to be
more aggressive toward them then some other fish. (It's a fin thing)


> I'm using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals master kit ... I wasn't so confident
> with the test results before, but I am becoming increasingly so after
> testing other water samples.

Is that a Nessler test kit or a salicylate test kit? I know AP sells
both and I'm not sure which comes in the Master Kit. A Nessler tester
will show you all ammonia including "locked" and will not give you an
accurate reading. Just be sure it's the Salicylate tester. The
Aquarium Pharm. brand is sold for both sal****er AND freshwater and
comes with two dropper bottles. Their Nessler tester is for freshwater
only and comes with only one bottle.