What are effects of not changin water for long periods?

[JeffinMS]

I havent had time to change water in about 5-6 weeks due to some work and
family related issues. Took time to add treated water though. There seems to
be no ill effects and the water readings are pretty good and consistent with
the exception of the water being a little hard. The water is becoming
somewhat cloudy. What are some of the problems I might come across with not
changing water for long periods?

20 gal. tank
Clown Loaches
1 Pleco
3 Black Molly
2 Swords
4 tetras.

1 real plant (Cant remember what its called but its long and thin and grows
very rapidly)

Thanks
J

[Victor Martinez]

JeffinMS wrote:
> I havent had time to change water in about 5-6 weeks due to some work and
> family related issues. Took time to add treated water though. There seems to
> be no ill effects and the water readings are pretty good and consistent with
> the exception of the water being a little hard. The water is becoming
> somewhat cloudy. What are some of the problems I might come across with not
> changing water for long periods?

If you don't have lots of fast growing plants, nitrates will accumulate.
Which is not good for fish.

--
Victor M. Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[dc]

"JeffinMS" > wrote in
:

> problems I might come across with not changing water for long periods?

The build-up of organic and inorganic wastes; dissolved in the water table
as well as trapped in the substrate and in your filter.

These byproducts will gradually increase the stress level of your fish and
drop your pH potentially making your fish more susceptible to infection or
shock.

The accumulation of these wastes can eventually impact the efficiency of
your filter too possibly leading to an ammonia/ammonium or nitrite spike
which spells toxic shock/stress for your livestock.

[Köi-Lö]

"JeffinMS" > wrote in message
...
>I havent had time to change water in about 5-6 weeks due to some work and
>family related issues. Took time to add treated water though. There seems
>to be no ill effects and the water readings are pretty good and consistent
>with the exception of the water being a little hard. The water is becoming
>somewhat cloudy. What are some of the problems I might come across with not
>changing water for long periods?
===================
The water will get harder and harder as it evaporates and you replace it
with more water. Organics will build up and the tank can suffer a deadly PH
crash. It's really not a good idea to let it got for long periods without a
partial water changes.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[swarvegorilla]

"JeffinMS" > wrote in message
...
>I havent had time to change water in about 5-6 weeks due to some work and
>family related issues. Took time to add treated water though. There seems
>to be no ill effects and the water readings are pretty good and consistent
>with the exception of the water being a little hard. The water is becoming
>somewhat cloudy. What are some of the problems I might come across with not
>changing water for long periods?
>
> 20 gal. tank
> Clown Loaches
> 1 Pleco
> 3 Black Molly
> 2 Swords
> 4 tetras.
>
> 1 real plant (Cant remember what its called but its long and thin and
> grows very rapidly)
>
> Thanks
> J
>

reduction in water clarity is a big one
also the water can lose the ability to hold as much oxygen
the main prob is the water becomes less like the tap water and the fish will
stress more from a large change if you have to do one.

[Pete]

Take a look at
http://www.barrreport.com/forums/

There, Tom Barr discusses low-light, non CO2 tanks where you never do
a water change...... strange but true..

I can't comment myself, as I have a high-light, CO2 flooded tank..
I follow Tom's EI dosing strategy with great success.

Best wishes
Pete

[Dick]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 01:09:21 GMT, "JeffinMS"
> wrote:

>I havent had time to change water in about 5-6 weeks due to some work and
>family related issues. Took time to add treated water though. There seems to
>be no ill effects and the water readings are pretty good and consistent with
>the exception of the water being a little hard. The water is becoming
>somewhat cloudy. What are some of the problems I might come across with not
>changing water for long periods?
>
>20 gal. tank
>Clown Loaches
>1 Pleco
>3 Black Molly
>2 Swords
>4 tetras.
>
>1 real plant (Cant remember what its called but its long and thin and grows
>very rapidly)
>
>Thanks
>J
>

The "cloudy water" may be signaling a problem. Over feeding is more
likely to be a problem than not changing water.

I am totally dedicated to routing water changes over anything else
except care about over feeding.

How can you not worry about the water conditions, just the disolved
solids issue alone? (see old tank syndrome.)

It is my observation that filters are actually "strainers." They hold
the larger solids, but the water passing by is eroding the solids and
letting the stuff to return to the tank. Oh, woe is me, I predict
disaster due to negligence.

But, what do I know? There is more to life than fish - well, maybe.

dick

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

> I havent had time to change water in about 5-6 weeks due
> to some work and family related issues. Took time to add
> treated water though.

Demineralised water or treated rain water were a better
choice..

> There seems to be no ill effects and
> the water readings are pretty good and consistent with the
> exception of the water being a little hard. The water is
> becoming somewhat cloudy. What are some of the problems I
> might come across with not changing water for long
> periods?

Depends on stocking and organic input, too..

> 20 gal. tank
> Clown Loaches
> 1 Pleco
> 3 Black Molly
> 2 Swords
> 4 tetras.

That tank I suppose is much too small for clowns and even
for swords and this might finally be the _main_ problem you
will get or have..

Unfortunately nobody cares..
--
cu
Marco

[dc]

Dick > wrote in
:

> It is my observation that filters are actually "strainers." They hold
> the larger solids, but the water passing by is eroding the solids and
> letting the stuff to return to the tank. Oh, woe is me, I predict
> disaster due to negligence.

That's not a strainer, that's just a filter. The primary media traps
debris allowing heterotrophic bacteria (not just flowing water) to
consume it and break it down efficiently into smaller particles which
pass on to the later stages of the filter. Nitrifying bacteria, living
harmoniously with the heterotrophic bacteria, processes the nitrogenous
byproducts of the break down of organic material.

A strainer would be the physical trapping of debris in the absence of
anything else. A diatom filter could be described as an advanced type
of strainer. Any filter that has been broken-in or cycled is not a
simple strainer.

Essentially there are three stages to aquarium filters, mechanical,
biological, and chemical.

Mechanical filtration involves the trapping of physical waste particles.
These are generally the primary and final stages of your filter (that is
if you are using something like polyfiber at the end stage of your
filter to prevent very small particles returning to your aquarium).

Biological involves what I described above. Heterotrophic bacteria
decompose physical organic debris, and nitrifying bacteria go to work on
the byproducts of that decomposition, especially in the later stages
where there water flow is less impeded by the build-up of physical
debris.

Chemical filtration is optional and can involve a wide variety of media
which can trap within them an array of different substances. The most
common types of chemical filtration media are active carbon and Zeolite.

[Dick]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:20:36 -0500, dc > wrote:

>Dick > wrote in
:
>
>> It is my observation that filters are actually "strainers." They hold
>> the larger solids, but the water passing by is eroding the solids and
>> letting the stuff to return to the tank. Oh, woe is me, I predict
>> disaster due to negligence.
>
>That's not a strainer, that's just a filter. The primary media traps
>debris allowing heterotrophic bacteria (not just flowing water) to
>consume it and break it down efficiently into smaller particles which
>pass on to the later stages of the filter. Nitrifying bacteria, living
>harmoniously with the heterotrophic bacteria, processes the nitrogenous
>byproducts of the break down of organic material.
>
>A strainer would be the physical trapping of debris in the absence of
>anything else. A diatom filter could be described as an advanced type
>of strainer. Any filter that has been broken-in or cycled is not a
>simple strainer.
>

I don't understand much of what you said, but I have 3 different
filters on my 5 tanks. I don't use charcoal and I removed bio wheels,
so my filtration media is a "strainer." What do you believe is
happening to the debris on the media with the water pouring past?

I call it erosion. Works fine, but then I do weekly water changes.

dick
>Essentially there are three stages to aquarium filters, mechanical,
>biological, and chemical.
>
>Mechanical filtration involves the trapping of physical waste particles.
>These are generally the primary and final stages of your filter (that is
>if you are using something like polyfiber at the end stage of your
>filter to prevent very small particles returning to your aquarium).
>
>Biological involves what I described above. Heterotrophic bacteria
>decompose physical organic debris, and nitrifying bacteria go to work on
>the byproducts of that decomposition, especially in the later stages
>where there water flow is less impeded by the build-up of physical
>debris.
>
>Chemical filtration is optional and can involve a wide variety of media
>which can trap within them an array of different substances. The most
>common types of chemical filtration media are active carbon and Zeolite.
>
>

[dc]

Dick > wrote in
:

> I don't understand much of what you said, but I have 3 different
> filters on my 5 tanks. I don't use charcoal and I removed bio wheels,
> so my filtration media is a "strainer." What do you believe is
> happening to the debris on the media with the water pouring past?

I just told you what happened.

Heterotrophic bacteria are breaking down the organic particles, not the
water flow or erosion.

Removing the biowheel diminishes the biological capacity of your filter to
remove the toxic ammonia produced by the action of the heterotrophic
bacteria.

Active carbon (what you call charcoal) is not really necessary.

[Nikki Casali]

Dick wrote:

> It is my observation that filters are actually "strainers." They hold
> the larger solids, but the water passing by is eroding the solids and
> letting the stuff to return to the tank. Oh, woe is me, I predict
> disaster due to negligence.

Well, I just discovered why one of my external filters' flow rate
dropped to almost nothing, even though it apparently looked clean. It
was driving me nuts. I hadn't cleaned the prefilter sponge for almost 8
months, but it looked pristine. I scrunched it in a bucket full of
water, just in case I was missing something. What did I then see at the
bottom of that bucket? Masses of white snail shells. Over the months,
tiny snails had got through the strainer then bred and died, finally
choking the sponge with their insoluble remains. The flow rate after
that was incredible. I'd forgotten how much water it could shift when it
was new.

Nikki

[swarvegorilla]

The closest I can come is high light rockpool type biotypes.
I have one that has been below 5ppm nitrate and zero ammonia/nitirite for
over a year now.
That said it has had very very fish fish in there lately.
started as a feeder tank and went on to become a sanctuary for the coolest
bits live rock I could buy.
Myself, I think a big part of having nitrate eaters in your tank is having a
high level of nitrates in you water for a while.
Letting them breed up.
Then when you water change, nitrates may go but the bacteria populations
stay.
Anyway I don't mind water changes, they are a good chance to keep me tanks
looking good.
Unlike planted tank peoples, I like to meddle.
Trick is having enough tanks to spread your meddling out that it doesn't
stress fish.
The solution to pollution is dilution.
remember the mantra.


"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> Take a look at
> http://www.barrreport.com/forums/
>
> There, Tom Barr discusses low-light, non CO2 tanks where you never do
> a water change...... strange but true..
>
> I can't comment myself, as I have a high-light, CO2 flooded tank..
> I follow Tom's EI dosing strategy with great success.
>
> Best wishes
> Pete
>

[swarvegorilla]

"Marco Schwarz" > wrote in message
...
> Hi..
>
>> I havent had time to change water in about 5-6 weeks due
>> to some work and family related issues. Took time to add
>> treated water though.
>
> Demineralised water or treated rain water were a better
> choice..
>
>> There seems to be no ill effects and
>> the water readings are pretty good and consistent with the
>> exception of the water being a little hard. The water is
>> becoming somewhat cloudy. What are some of the problems I
>> might come across with not changing water for long
>> periods?
>
> Depends on stocking and organic input, too..
>
>> 20 gal. tank
>> Clown Loaches
>> 1 Pleco
>> 3 Black Molly
>> 2 Swords
>> 4 tetras.
>
> That tank I suppose is much too small for clowns and even
> for swords and this might finally be the _main_ problem you
> will get or have..


don't be silly the only thing gonna outgrow that thing in a hurry is the
pleco prob



>
> Unfortunately nobody cares..
> --
> cu
> Marco

[swarvegorilla]

"Nikki Casali" > wrote in message
...
> Dick wrote:
>
>> It is my observation that filters are actually "strainers." They hold
>> the larger solids, but the water passing by is eroding the solids and
>> letting the stuff to return to the tank. Oh, woe is me, I predict
>> disaster due to negligence.
>
> Well, I just discovered why one of my external filters' flow rate dropped
> to almost nothing, even though it apparently looked clean. It was driving
> me nuts. I hadn't cleaned the prefilter sponge for almost 8 months, but it
> looked pristine. I scrunched it in a bucket full of water, just in case I
> was missing something. What did I then see at the bottom of that bucket?
> Masses of white snail shells. Over the months, tiny snails had got through
> the strainer then bred and died, finally choking the sponge with their
> insoluble remains. The flow rate after that was incredible. I'd forgotten
> how much water it could shift when it was new.
>
> Nikki


A common snail tactic unfortunately.
the old clogging of filter parts with their dead.
I once had an otto 450G cannister impellor jammed after a power outtage for
5hours on masses of dead floating tiny snails.
When the impellor finally worked it's way free it pumped the nastiest
ammonia filled goop into me tank.
Oh did it smell.
To it's credit, the fluidised sand bed filter on it's side (rainbow or
something) had converted most the ammonia to nitrite by morning but still
dam I lost some fish!!! 6X2X2 african display. One of several tanks but was
a few buckets of fish gone :-(
hated snails with a vengence..... but then after the ocky I find them
really quite interesting.
still lucky you had the prefilter on! clean that more often and you can
clean the actual filter much less.

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

[...]

@ JeffinMS:
> the only thing gonna outgrow that thing in
> a hurry is the pleco prob

Don't believe in fairy-tales..
--
cu
Marco

[Gill Passman]

Well I would say it would depend on the Pleco....my smallest full grown
plec is around 3-4" and is a King Arabesque....I then have a full grown
snowball Plec that is aroung 5"....I also have, in my big tank, a
Leopard Plec that will probably grow to 15" but in a 6 foot tank I'm not
sweating it too much.....

IMO Clown Loaches need a larger tank than 20 gall...that is not to say
that they won't do OK in there short term but you need to plan for
moving them soon.....My CLs are also in the 130g although I have kept
them quite happily in a 47.5 UK gall tank....

As for the water change question....sometimes these things happen....I
would suggest following a routine of small water changes more
frequently...this will lessen the stress on the fish rather than a
sudden change in their water quality.....I would go for 10% changes
every other day over a week and then adopt a policy of 10-20% changes
weekly.....make sure you clean the gravel at the same time....one of
your big problems could be trapped grunge in the gravel....again take it
nice and slowly.....do so much gravel each time you change the water....

Good Luck

Gill