injured fish question

[Trevor]

Hi

My pair of Dempseys have just spawned and have obviously been defending
their spawning site with zeal. One of my pair of Oscars has taken a hit or
two as I can see missing scales. I also have a pair of Peacocks and one of
them has taken a hit to the side which has left a small open wound

The fish does not seem too troubled by it.

Should I intervene? Should I be trying to treat the wound with anything or
even removing the fish from the tank (1.5 m ). Or should I just wait and
see if it heals naturally. I will be looking closely for and sign of
infection or fungal outbreak.

Thanks in advance

Trev

[nuchumYussel]

I would personally put in the recomended amount of melafix. I would
hold off on moving the fish though.

Nuchum Yussel

[NetMax]

"Trevor" > wrote in message
se.com...
> Hi
>
> My pair of Dempseys have just spawned and have obviously been defending
> their spawning site with zeal. One of my pair of Oscars has taken a hit
or
> two as I can see missing scales. I also have a pair of Peacocks and one
of
> them has taken a hit to the side which has left a small open wound
>
> The fish does not seem too troubled by it.
>
> Should I intervene? Should I be trying to treat the wound with anything
or
> even removing the fish from the tank (1.5 m ). Or should I just wait
and
> see if it heals naturally. I will be looking closely for and sign of
> infection or fungal outbreak.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Trev

I don't do anything for lost scales and other war wounds unless an
infection starts. For very expensive fish, I might put in some Melafix.
I'm not a big fan of Melafix as a medication, but it's convenient as a
preventative. It does sound like you should be seperating them though.
The Dempseys would rather be alone, and the other fish would rather be
elsewhere, especially the big 'baby' Oscars ;~). Alternately, you can
restore some peace by removing the eggs, and turning the tank temperature
down a few degrees.
--
http://www.netmax.tk/

[Trevor]

On Sat, 01 May 2004 19:36:48 -0400, NetMax wrote:


>
> I don't do anything for lost scales and other war wounds unless an
> infection starts. For very expensive fish, I might put in some Melafix.
> I'm not a big fan of Melafix as a medication, but it's convenient as a
> preventative. It does sound like you should be seperating them though.
> The Dempseys would rather be alone, and the other fish would rather be
> elsewhere, especially the big 'baby' Oscars ;~). Alternately, you can
> restore some peace by removing the eggs, and turning the tank temperature
> down a few degrees.

Thanks for the Input Netmax I was not planning to take action unless
infection/fungus set in.

Unfortunately I do not have another suitable tank for any of the other
fish. All has been well up to now!!!!!

I want to see them raise the babies as far as they can as I have not seen
this before, so I do not want to remove the eggs. I will of course be
monitoring the situation closely and if I have to remove fish I will make
a plan. IE good excuse for a new big tank!!!

Trev

[Trevor]

On Sat, 01 May 2004 15:10:38 -0700, nuchumYussel wrote:

> I would personally put in the recomended amount of melafix. I would hold
> off on moving the fish though.
>
> Nuchum Yussel

YeS I read good things about Melafix but I have never seen it available in
South Africa. I was recently in the UK and did not think to buy some and
bring it home with me.

Now the Oscars pectoral fin is looking pretty ragged. I am keeping a close
watch on things.

Trev

[E.Otter]

How about adding a divider to the tank? Even if you have to put one on
either side of the nest it would prevent attacks.

If the tank size or the decorations, aqua-scaping etc... don't allow for a
regular divider you could create a makeshift divider. Buy mosquito-netting
or the metal screen used in screen doors and screen windows or some other
mesh/netting-type material Attach the top to a thin piece of wood or a rod
that's sits just under the hood and weight the bottom to keep the netting
tight (very important). It could form-fit over any rocks, decorations,
whatever you might have. It will probably look ugly, but its only temporary
and it will keep your fish from losing any more of their fins.

[Trevor]

On Mon, 03 May 2004 04:52:21 +0000, E.Otter wrote:

> How about adding a divider to the tank? Even if you have to put one on
> either side of the nest it would prevent attacks.
>
> If the tank size or the decorations, aqua-scaping etc... don't allow for a
> regular divider you could create a makeshift divider. Buy
> mosquito-netting or the metal screen used in screen doors and screen
> windows or some other mesh/netting-type material Attach the top to a thin
> piece of wood or a rod that's sits just under the hood and weight the
> bottom to keep the netting tight (very important). It could form-fit over
> any rocks, decorations, whatever you might have. It will probably look
> ugly, but its only temporary and it will keep your fish from losing any
> more of their fins.

Thank you for a great suggestion - it should have been obvious and I am
aware of this technique but it never occured to me.

I have a gap in my rock work right in the middle of the tank so I could
give the demspesy's half the tank.

The eggs have been picked off the rock spwaning site and are wiggling
about in a pit the dempseys have dug so all the other fish are being
"confined" to the end third of the tank anyway.

I am going to get some plastic mesh and make the temporary divider.

Thanks for your suggestion

Trev

[RedForeman ©®]

> My pair of Dempseys have just spawned and have obviously been
> defending their spawning site with zeal. One of my pair of Oscars has
> taken a hit or two as I can see missing scales. I also have a pair of
> Peacocks and one of them has taken a hit to the side which has left a
> small open wound

Risking the group flaming me for this, I'll take a deep breath and say
this...

Why on earth are you housing oscars, dempseys, and peacocks? in the same
tank? it should be a min. 200g to even get near workable....

Of course you're going to have problems, just look at your mix.... expect
problems with a problematic setup... I'm sure it was fine until the
spawning....

Sorry, just rubbed me the wrong way... housing those fish together... 2 SA,
and a pair Malawis

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[nuchumYussel]

You could try aquabid.com But no being in the United States, i dont
know how easily you could get some, this is because the seller might
not ship globally.

GOOD LUCK!
Nuchum Yussel

[RedForeman ©®]

> Evan

Then I do apologize....

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[nuchumYussel]

Red, that was unnecessary. Even if it was, you could have put nicer.
Maybe this guy has fish with good personalities. I have a 6 inch male
pearl gourami in the same 20 gallon tank as 2, 1 inch Serpae Tetras.
NO PROBLEMS.

Whoever the original poster is, dont take what Red says seriously if
you havent had any problems prior to this. I personally am disgusted
by that post Red. I almost left this hobby due to being insulted on
this newsgroup. Whoever the original poster is, dont let one person
ruin the hobby for you!

Evan

[NetMax]

"Trevor" > wrote in message
se.com...
> On Mon, 03 May 2004 04:52:21 +0000, E.Otter wrote:
>
> > How about adding a divider to the tank? Even if you have to put one
on
> > either side of the nest it would prevent attacks.
> >
> > If the tank size or the decorations, aqua-scaping etc... don't allow
for a
> > regular divider you could create a makeshift divider. Buy
> > mosquito-netting or the metal screen used in screen doors and screen
> > windows or some other mesh/netting-type material Attach the top to a
thin
> > piece of wood or a rod that's sits just under the hood and weight the
> > bottom to keep the netting tight (very important). It could form-fit
over
> > any rocks, decorations, whatever you might have. It will probably
look
> > ugly, but its only temporary and it will keep your fish from losing
any
> > more of their fins.
>
> Thank you for a great suggestion - it should have been obvious and I am
> aware of this technique but it never occured to me.
>
> I have a gap in my rock work right in the middle of the tank so I could
> give the demspesy's half the tank.
>
> The eggs have been picked off the rock spwaning site and are wiggling
> about in a pit the dempseys have dug so all the other fish are being
> "confined" to the end third of the tank anyway.
>
> I am going to get some plastic mesh and make the temporary divider.
>
> Thanks for your suggestion
>
> Trev

I find window screen a bit fragile for holding back Dempseys. I use
egg-crate light diffusers. If you have a Home Depot in Aus, here is the
part number SKU# A110-881.
--
http://www.netmax.tk/

[Trevor]

On Mon, 03 May 2004 13:41:44 -0700, nuchumYussel wrote:

> Red, that was unnecessary. Even if it was, you could have put nicer. Maybe
> this guy has fish with good personalities. I have a 6 inch male pearl
> gourami in the same 20 gallon tank as 2, 1 inch Serpae Tetras. NO
> PROBLEMS.
>
> Whoever the original poster is, dont take what Red says seriously if you
> havent had any problems prior to this. I personally am disgusted by that
> post Red. I almost left this hobby due to being insulted on this
> newsgroup. Whoever the original poster is, dont let one person ruin the
> hobby for you!
>
> Evan

Hi Evan

Although a not too frequent poster I have been reading the aquaria groups
for well over two years and usenet in general for ten

I am all to aware of what happens

I thinks Reds Ok and I did not take what hed had to say the wrong way as I
kind of agree anyway. See my reply to him

Trev

[Trevor]

On Mon, 03 May 2004 10:27:31 -0400, RedForeman ©® wrote:

>> My pair of Dempseys have just spawned and have obviously been defending
>> their spawning site with zeal. One of my pair of Oscars has taken a hit
>> or two as I can see missing scales. I also have a pair of Peacocks and
>> one of them has taken a hit to the side which has left a small open
>> wound
>
> Risking the group flaming me for this, I'll take a deep breath and say
> this...
>
> Why on earth are you housing oscars, dempseys, and peacocks? in the same
> tank? it should be a min. 200g to even get near workable....
>
> Of course you're going to have problems, just look at your mix.... expect
> problems with a problematic setup... I'm sure it was fine until the
> spawning....
>
> Sorry, just rubbed me the wrong way... housing those fish together... 2
> SA, and a pair Malawis

Well I guess I should not mention I have two firemouths in there too then
;)

After a quick excel conversion see my tank dimension below

length breadth depth volume

Decimal 150 60 50 450
Imperial 59.06 23.62 19.69 118.85


Yes this mix may not be ideal but I really don;t think it is too bad. I
did ask about the inhabitants when I first set it up and was advised not
to keep the peacocks being malawis and needing diif water parameters not
too mention different temperamnets. I have only lost one fish to agression
in 18months the tank has been running and that was a reintroduced fry of
the demspeys killed by the the dempseys ( i am guessing the fish could
have died of natural or other causes as it did not look too beat up)

I am running a eheim 2238 filter and have never had problems with water
quality.


I have alwasy read that oscars (cause of their sheer size) are suitable as
tankmates for demspesys, The peacocks hold their own and the firemouths
actually also hold their own.

I do really want to remove the peacoks and the firemouths and am plannign
for another tank soon - maybe this will happen even sooner now!

So while the tank may be problematical it is not out of ignorance more
like a calulated risk if you will

In th mean time I am dividing the tank.

So what would you think of the two oscars and two dempseys along with a
ten inch gibbiceps which I plan to add from another tank that he has
outgrown The oscars are probably ten inch as well and the demspesy 7/8
inches. Or should oscars not be kept with demspeys or is it the size of my
tank that makes this a problem

Then further to that I have a tank
Decimal 90 38 32 109.44
Imperial 35.43 14.96 12.6 28.9

that currently houses a juvenile dempsey (last surviving fry from first
spawning 14 months ago) a convict the gibbicepps and two malawis (who
knows what could be mbuna of some sort)

I intend to put the two firemouths in there for another all SA tank (until
they outgrow it of course) So would 2 firemuths (3inch) 1 dempsey (4inch)
and 1 convict (4inch be ok. Would it be ok to add more firemouths a I
really like them?

The peacocks then go to my yet to be acquired 4 foot tank along with the
three red empress fry I have growing out in a smaller tank (when their
sizes are compatible) Is that a sensible mix of malawis (more suitable
ones to be purchased as well

Sorry for the long post!


Trev

[RedForeman ©®]

> So while the tank may be problematical it is not out of ignorance more
> like a calulated risk if you will
>
> Trev

Apologies for the previous post, I didn't think it was terribly overboard,
but nonetheless, unnecessary....

As long as you know what your doing, and it does sound like you do....
here's my short lived experience with JDs..

A friend who got me into the hobby, had a male female pair... Big, ugly, but
would change colors here and there, so I started to kinda like them....
Months and months had went by and one day, he got a 4" Jewel.... it got
shredded... a 5"oscar.... gone.... 2-5"pacus... missing...2-4" convicts....
1 jumped, the other was eaten... Now realize that the JDs were adults, full
sized and were M8" and F9" and the whole time had been guarding first eggs,
then fry.. but the owner never knew it.... He realized it when he was taking
what was left of a convict out, and momma JD got him, bit him on the thumb,
and that's when he realized he had babies....

He never put anything else in that tank, but the babies lived long enough to
stress the parents, who were given away... the fry later were given to the
LFS for new fish....

The JDs I have seen weren't huge, but mean....

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[Happy'Cam'per]

"nuchumYussel" > wrote in message
m...
> Red, that was unnecessary. Even if it was, you could have put nicer.
> Maybe this guy has fish with good personalities. I have a 6 inch male
> pearl gourami in the same 20 gallon tank as 2, 1 inch Serpae Tetras.
> NO PROBLEMS.
>
> Whoever the original poster is, dont take what Red says seriously if
> you havent had any problems prior to this. I personally am disgusted
> by that post Red. I almost left this hobby due to being insulted on
> this newsgroup. Whoever the original poster is, dont let one person
> ruin the hobby for you!
>
> Evan

As Eric Schrieber once politely told me: get a thicker skin or leave
usenent.....LOL ;)
I actually second Red on this one, it really is an ODD combination of fish
and in the long term could cause you and more importantly your fish, alot of
problems. Reds advice was sound, if it came across as stern it's because
he's passionate about his fish! DOH
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[NetMax]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> The JDs I have seen weren't huge, but mean....

<g> Cichlasoma biocellatum (oops, octofasciatum now) were not named after
the boxer, Jack Dempsey (1895-1983) for his good looks ;~) The word
pugnacious comes to mind when discussing JDs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Dempsey
http://www.aquariacentral.com/fishinfo/fresh/dempsey.shtml
--
http://www.NetMax.tk/

> --
> RedForeman ©®

[Boris]

"nuchumYussel" > wrote in message
m...
> Red, that was unnecessary. Even if it was, you could have put nicer.
> Maybe this guy has fish with good personalities. I have a 6 inch male
> pearl gourami in the same 20 gallon tank as 2, 1 inch Serpae Tetras.
> NO PROBLEMS.
>

If "Red" left the newsgroup then their would be no one left to laugh at.

[Trevor]

On Tue, 04 May 2004 09:13:15 -0400, RedForeman ©® wrote:

>> So while the tank may be problematical it is not out of ignorance more
>> like a calulated risk if you will
>>
>> Trev
>
> Apologies for the previous post, I didn't think it was terribly overboard,
> but nonetheless, unnecessary....
>
> As long as you know what your doing, and it does sound like you do....
> here's my short lived experience with JDs..
>

No apologies needed Red, My dempseys have been absolutely fine till now -
even first tme they spawned they were really too small to cause many
problems as all the fish were small (2-3 inches) and there wash relativelu
much more tankspace per fish.

I have put the tank divider up and this protects the other fish from the
dempseys and the fry from the other fish.

There don't seem to be too many of them left as The mother picked the
wigglers of the rocks and dumped them into a pit and a lot seem to have
fallen through the ugf plates. They have been moved a couple of times and
are now in a cave so I can't really see them.

I guess there a few should make it!

Trev

[PurityFailed]

>As Eric Schrieber once politely told me: get a thicker skin or leave
>usenent.....LOL ;)

I'll second that. If anyone want's to see some attitudes so horrible they're
funny, take a peek over at rec.arts.bodyart. I subscribed to that one for a
bit when I was 17 and promptly left when the atmosphere became contagious.
(Same name, so do a search for some laughs if you're really bored.)

I'd just like to insert a heartfelt 'thank you' to everyone here who takes the
time to remember to be kind, and even the 'fearsome' RedForeman for being kind
in his moments of accused rudeness. Hehe.

Amazing that a simple NG can so drastically affect one's blood pressure. I
read through here and I feel intrigued and peaceful. I damn near had an
aneurism every time I checked the posts over there. :D

Very Happy Trails,
Jessica
-Yet another baffled victim of a fish that decided to go MIA.

[Mudbunny]

(PurityFailed) wrote in message >...
> >As Eric Schrieber once politely told me: get a thicker skin or leave
> >usenent.....LOL ;)
>
> I'll second that. If anyone want's to see some attitudes so horrible they're
> funny, take a peek over at rec.arts.bodyart. I subscribed to that one for a
> bit when I was 17 and promptly left when the atmosphere became contagious.
> (Same name, so do a search for some laughs if you're really bored.)

I'll third that. And looking and Red's comments, they were actually
pretty nice and very restrained. As for meanness, I will see your
rec.arts.bodyart, and raise you rec.pets.cats.health+behav. Drop in
there and make a comment about declawing cats. Either that or go into
rec.pets.dogs.behaviour and do one of the following: a) Chat with the
Puppy Wiz@rd (Name munged so he doesn't come trollin') b)mention that
pp(purely positive) training is the only way to go or c) talk about
keeping a dog outdoors all of the time. Then you put on the asbestos
undies and wait.

> I'd just like to insert a heartfelt 'thank you' to everyone here who takes the
> time to remember to be kind, and even the 'fearsome' RedForeman for being kind
> in his moments of accused rudeness. Hehe.

I would have to agree with this as well. Even when feeling
particularly mean (which is relative) everyone in here is extremely
helpful to us newbies.

Marcel

[Eric Schreiber]

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

> As Eric Schrieber once politely told me: get a thicker skin or leave
> usenent.....LOL ;)

I'll take my fifteen minutes any way I can get it :)

> I actually second Red on this one

I do as well, not on account of the fish (I'm not familiar enough with
them to know if the combo will work) but on account of the tone - that
was NOT in any way, shape or form a rude or 'disgusting' reply. At the
absolute worst, it was mildly blunt.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

[Eric Schreiber]

Boris wrote:

> If "Red" left the newsgroup then their would be no one left to laugh
> at.

On the contrary, we'd still have you.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

[RedForeman ©®]

|| Boris wrote:
||
||| If "Red" left the newsgroup then their would be no one left to laugh
||| at.
||
|| On the contrary, we'd still have you.
|| --
|| www.ericschreiber.com

That's funny... I've blocked 'some' people, for obvious reasons... I didn't
even see this until you replied... still doesn't matter, laugh away... My
skin is thick, my suit is HazMat approved, and I ain't skeerd....

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??