Any tips

[Manky Badger]

I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres long, 2
metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres deep.
Anyone got any tips?

Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it - will the
sides cave in?
If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides of the
pond, how thick should the sides be?

And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?

[Köi-Lö]

"Manky Badger" > wrote in message
...
> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres long, 2
> metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres deep.
> Anyone got any tips?
>
> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it - will
> the sides cave in?
> If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides of
> the pond, how thick should the sides be?
>
> And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?
==========================
Do some research online before you buy your liner. Where I live the clay
soil caves in unless the hole is bowl shaped where the water pressure keeps
the sides from caving in. Our berms caved in anyway and both ponds had to
be redone and the berms done in reinforced concrete.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[BoyPete]

Manky Badger wrote:
> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres
> long, 2 metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres
> deep. Anyone got any tips?
>
> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it -
> will the sides cave in?
> If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides
> of the pond, how thick should the sides be?
>
> And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?

Maidenhead Aquatics.............
http://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/
--
ßôyþëtë

[Manky Badger]

"BoyPete" > wrote in message
...
> Manky Badger wrote:
>> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres
>> long, 2 metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres
>> deep. Anyone got any tips?
>>
>> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it -
>> will the sides cave in?
>> If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides
>> of the pond, how thick should the sides be?
>>
>> And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?
>
> Maidenhead Aquatics.............
> http://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/

Cheers :o)

[~ janj]

>> Manky Badger wrote:
>>> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres
>>> long, 2 metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres
>>> deep. Anyone got any tips?
>>>
>>> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it -
>>> will the sides cave in?

Depends on soil type and if you destroy the integrity of the soil.... When
we dug our ponds we didn't dig into the sides (change our mind on the
shape), so even though I'm in almost pure sand the sides haven't caved. (12
years) 3 foot koi ponds have 18" shelf all around. 2 foot lily pond does
not.

But 4 meters is much deeper so you may need support or sharp angles
downward. ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[[email protected]]

6 feet deep is probably too deep unless you plan on swimming in this.
yes, steep sides are likely to cave in. here is the old website of the first pond we
dug and redug and lined with cement block
http://weloveteaching.com/hopepond/page1/pp1.htm
shallow sloping sides are almost always fine, except right at the edge where people
usually want to put heavy stone. we used wood decking right up to the edge.
OTOH, our current pond we used stud walls (we like steep walls because our ponds are
for our fish) http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/2000/p2000.htm
Ingrid

"Manky Badger" > wrote:

>I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres long, 2
>metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres deep.
>Anyone got any tips?
>
>Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it - will the
>sides cave in?
>If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides of the
>pond, how thick should the sides be?
>
>And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?
>
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[Gantz]

Köi-Lö wrote:
> ==========================
> Do some research online before you buy your liner. Where I live the clay
> soil caves in unless the hole is bowl shaped where the water pressure keeps
> the sides from caving in. Our berms caved in anyway and both ponds had to
> be redone and the berms done in reinforced concrete.


This should help Randy fight his addiction

Overcoming Addiction
There are a lot of articles in the Watchtower and Awake that can help
you to overcome addiction. For any kind of addiction here are some
Bible principles that you can use to help.



1. You cannot have a feeling (emotion) without first having experienced
a thought. Make your mind over - Romans 12:2



2. Pray - Psalm 139:23, 24



3. Think of chaste things - Phil 4:8-9



4. Mat 5:30 - get rid of the improper thoughts from your mind as soon
as you think about it



5. pray to Jehovah for his holy spirit, asking him to remove the bad
thoughts, emotions, feelings from within you.



6. Get the help of close friends, relatives , love ones to monitor,
help and encourage you. Be honest



7. Bad associations spoil useful habits, don't go to places & avoid
people which you know you'll succumb to your addiction. (Prov
4:14-15)



8. Appreciate the sacrifice Jesus and Jehovah have done for you (John
3:16)



9. Study & apply the Bible in your life everyday.



10. Know the love of Christ that excels/surpasses knowledge (Eph 3:13)

[Alice Buckner Greeves]

"Gantz" > wrote in message
ups.com... is Antonio
Santana, known stalker of the Gully family.

Tell us how Norma's rape screwed up her innards and your head Antonio. Tell
us how Revis rape screwed up her head and her innards Antonio. Tell us how
all these rapes screwed up Antonio Jr's head. And tell us why one of your
sock-puppets holds a conversation and replies to another of your
sock-puppets. All those rapes in your family really screwed up your head
where sex is concerned. Pitiful..........................

[marika]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:31:04 -0400, Gantz > wrote:

>
> Köi-Lö wrote:
>> ==========================
>> Do some research online before you buy your liner. Where I live the
>> clay
>> soil caves in unless the hole is bowl shaped where the water pressure
>> keeps
>> the sides from caving in. Our berms caved in anyway and both ponds had
>> to
>> be redone and the berms done in reinforced concrete.
>
>
> This should help Randy fight his addiction
>
> Overcoming Addiction
> There are a lot of articles in the Watchtower and Awake that can help
> you to overcome addiction. For any kind of addiction here are some
> Bible principles that you can use to help.
>
>
>
> 1. You cannot have a feeling (emotion) without first having experienced
> a thought. Make your mind over - Romans 12:2
>
>
>
> 2. Pray - Psalm 139:23, 24
>
>
>
> 3. Think of chaste things - Phil 4:8-9
>
>
>
> 4. Mat 5:30 - get rid of the improper thoughts from your mind as soon
> as you think about it
>
>
>
> 5. pray to Jehovah for his holy spirit, asking him to remove the bad
> thoughts, emotions, feelings from within you.
>
>
>

NO WAY! Then Jehovah will give him testicular cancer. And I'll bet if he
has one removed, he'll develop phantom embrassment.


> 6. Get the help of close friends, relatives , love ones to monitor,
> help and encourage you. Be honest
>
>
>
> 7. Bad associations spoil useful habits, don't go to places & avoid
> people which you know you'll succumb to your addiction. (Prov
> 4:14-15)
>
>
>
> 8. Appreciate the sacrifice Jesus and Jehovah have done for you (John
> 3:16)
>
>
>
> 9. Study & apply the Bible in your life everyday.
>
>
>
> 10. Know the love of Christ that excels/surpasses knowledge (Eph 3:13)
>

[Henry Mankinna]

"marika" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:31:04 -0400, Gantz > wrote:
>
>>
>> Köi-Lö wrote:
>>> ==========================
>>> Do some research online before you buy your liner. Where I live the
>>> clay
>>> soil caves in unless the hole is bowl shaped where the water pressure
>>> keeps
>>> the sides from caving in. Our berms caved in anyway and both ponds had
>>> to
>>> be redone and the berms done in reinforced concrete.
>>
>>
>> This should help Randy fight his addiction
>>
>> Overcoming Addiction
>> There are a lot of articles in the Watchtower and Awake that can help
>> you to overcome addiction. For any kind of addiction here are some
>> Bible principles that you can use to help.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. You cannot have a feeling (emotion) without first having experienced
>> a thought. Make your mind over - Romans 12:2
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. Pray - Psalm 139:23, 24
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. Think of chaste things - Phil 4:8-9
>>
>>
>>
>> 4. Mat 5:30 - get rid of the improper thoughts from your mind as soon
>> as you think about it
>>
>>
>>
>> 5. pray to Jehovah for his holy spirit, asking him to remove the bad
>> thoughts, emotions, feelings from within you.
>>
>>
>>
>
> NO WAY! Then Jehovah will give him testicular cancer. And I'll bet if he
> has one removed, he'll develop phantom embrassment.


If Antonio Santana had any testicles he wouldn't be harassing and
threatening old women online. He's been psychologically castrated by the
Watchtower Society and takes it out on women he finds on usenet. He spends
so much time with his nose up Carol's skirts his wife Norma is downloading
porn and he somehow thinks the object of his obsession's husband put it on
his computer. The kook Antonio had one too many epileptic seizures. When he
puts Norma's metal spaghetti strainer on his head he has visions of all kind
of weird sex and murders and blames his victims in TN.

[Manky Badger]

"~ janj" > wrote in message
...
>>> Manky Badger wrote:
>>>> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres
>>>> long, 2 metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres
>>>> deep. Anyone got any tips?
>>>>
>>>> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it -
>>>> will the sides cave in?
>
> Depends on soil type and if you destroy the integrity of the soil.... When
> we dug our ponds we didn't dig into the sides (change our mind on the
> shape), so even though I'm in almost pure sand the sides haven't caved.
> (12
> years) 3 foot koi ponds have 18" shelf all around. 2 foot lily pond does
> not.
>
> But 4 meters is much deeper so you may need support or sharp angles
> downward. ~ jan

I was planning on two metres deep as the main at the Koi centre said two
metres, but I read on the net that one metre is plenty. What IS the minimum
depth for koi carp?

[marika]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:45:54 -0400, Henry Mankinna >
wrote:

>
> "marika" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:31:04 -0400, Gantz > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Köi-Lö wrote:
>>>> ==========================
>>>> Do some research online before you buy your liner. Where I live the
>>>> clay
>>>> soil caves in unless the hole is bowl shaped where the water pressure
>>>> keeps
>>>> the sides from caving in. Our berms caved in anyway and both ponds
>>>> had to
>>>> be redone and the berms done in reinforced concrete.
>>>
>>>
>>> This should help Randy fight his addiction
>>>
>>> Overcoming Addiction
>>> There are a lot of articles in the Watchtower and Awake that can help
>>> you to overcome addiction. For any kind of addiction here are some
>>> Bible principles that you can use to help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. You cannot have a feeling (emotion) without first having experienced
>>> a thought. Make your mind over - Romans 12:2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. Pray - Psalm 139:23, 24
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. Think of chaste things - Phil 4:8-9
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 4. Mat 5:30 - get rid of the improper thoughts from your mind as soon
>>> as you think about it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 5. pray to Jehovah for his holy spirit, asking him to remove the bad
>>> thoughts, emotions, feelings from within you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> NO WAY! Then Jehovah will give him testicular cancer. And I'll bet if
>> he has one removed, he'll develop phantom embrassment.
>
>
> If Antonio Santana had any testicles he wouldn't be harassing and
> threatening old women online. He's been psychologically castrated by the
> Watchtower Society and takes it out on women he finds on usenet. He
> spends so much time with his nose up Carol's skirts his wife Norma is
> downloading porn and he somehow thinks the object of his obsession's
> husband put it on his computer.

What did she really put on his computer?
The ice cream guys, right?

> The kook Antonio had one too many epileptic seizures.

Wow! Where's he been?

> When he puts Norma's metal spaghetti strainer on his head he has visions
> of all kind of weird sex and murders and blames his victims in TN.

[~ janj]

>On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 23:06:52 +0100, "Manky Badger" > wrote:

>I was planning on two metres deep as the main at the Koi centre said two
>metres, but I read on the net that one metre is plenty. What IS the minimum
>depth for koi carp?

If it is a combo koi/water garden at least 1 meter. But if you want a
serious, for good growth and tone, koi pond, do the 2 meters. ~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

[Brendan DJ Murphy]

"Manky Badger" > wrote in message
...
> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres long, 2
> metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres deep.
> Anyone got any tips?
>
> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it - will
> the sides cave in?
> If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides of
> the pond, how thick should the sides be?
>
> And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?

Hi !
I think the general advice is to have some sand on the bottom and sides of
the hole to protect the liner.
Also I think you'll find the water pressure in the liner will push the out
rather than the soil outside caving in.
My suggestion is to back-fill the soil/sand whilst filling the pond with
water.

Secondly, we have a store literally round the corner from where we live
called "Swallow Aquatics". I live in Rayleigh, Essex
They also have a shop in Kent near Southfleet (Gravesend ?)
Their number is 01474 56112

Brendan

[sean mckinney]

Personally I see no problem with 2m deep. However 2m deep and only 2m
wide, with shelves, is going to make for an awkward lining with sheet
liner, I speak with the experience of lining my 4ft deep 10ft wide,
shelved pond. Try making up a shelved cardboard box and try lining that
with plastic sheet to see what I mean. Given your dimensions I'd suggest
either digging straight down to depth and building concrete block walls
or if you want built in shelves reduce the depth or preferably increase
the width significantly.

Personally straight down and concrete walls would be my choice, its
simpler to line and greatly increases the water volume, plant shelves
can them be made of benchs sat on the pond floor or plants can be hung
in baskets from the sides. Make sure you or visitors could, unaided,
get out of 6ft deep water should they fall in

That said I would do some research before going any further, look into
filtration, pumps, access, wiring and plumbing etc

A good UK site to browse is http://www.koicymru.co.uk/construct.htm
http://www.yorkshirekoi.co.uk/ may also be useful

useful american board is
http://208.67.224.245/forums/
the latter is for ideas, not techniques, their building methods differ
from ours.

Re a minimum thickness for soil levees, I dont know numeric values but
I think they are a good idea because, IMO, they allow the pond level to
be above the surrounding ground level which avoids runoff and liner
ballooning issues. Mine is about 2ft wide at the top, ie wide enough
for a path, for ease of access reasons not structural.




--
sean mckinney

[Derek Broughton]

Manky Badger wrote:

> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres long, 2
> metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres deep.
> Anyone got any tips?
>
> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it - will
> the sides cave in?
> If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides of
> the pond, how thick should the sides be?

I've somehow lost the most recent posts to this group, so I'll respond to
your later questions here :-)

For _show_ koi (please: not "koi carp" - that's so repetitively redundant),
deeper is supposedly better. If you have herons or other predators, deeper
is better. 2 meters is probably more than you need, but 1.5 is good.

Whether the soil will tend to collapse depends entirely on the soil. I went
down 5 feet in almost pure sand, and had very little trouble - but I think
it was perhaps reaching it's natural lifetime when I sold that place after
about 5 years. There was beginning to be some slippage. In clay, you
probably never need to worry. You also need to worry about drainage,
though - if your pond goes below, or even close, to the water table, you
will _always_ have trouble with subsidence, even in clay, because the
hydrostatic pressure outside will counter the pressure inside the pond.
--
derek

[Davy]

Do you really mean 2 metres deep but only 2 metres wide? I think in the UK,
because of the danger of the sides collapsing, a commercial company would
not be allowed to dig that without installing temporary shoring. You would
certainly not want to dig it alone; you would need someone on standby just
in case ...

cheers, Davy

"Manky Badger" > wrote in message
...
> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres long, 2
> metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres deep.
> Anyone got any tips?
>
> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it - will
the
> sides cave in?
> If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides of
the
> pond, how thick should the sides be?
>
> And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?
>
>
>
>

[BoyPete]

Manky Badger wrote:
> I'm starting digging a pond today. the plan is that it's 4 metres
> long, 2 metres wide, and going down in steps to a maximum of 2 metres
> deep. Anyone got any tips?
>
> Some questions spring to mind - can I just dig the hole & line it -
> will the sides cave in?
> If I (as I hope to) use the soil from the hole to build up the sides
> of the pond, how thick should the sides be?
>
> And does anyone know of a decent pond shop in Kent (UK)?

Just had a thought. I have some Bradshaws liner underlay spare. Never
undone. 2Mts x 8Mts. I'm in Erith, Kent. Can be yours for the cost of your
petrol to pick it up. :)
--
ßôyþëtë

[Manky Badger]

"sean mckinney" > wrote in message
...
>
> Personally I see no problem with 2m deep. However 2m deep and only 2m
> wide, with shelves, is going to make for an awkward lining with sheet
> liner, I speak with the experience of lining my 4ft deep 10ft wide,
> shelved pond. Try making up a shelved cardboard box and try lining that
> with plastic sheet to see what I mean. Given your dimensions I'd suggest
> either digging straight down to depth and building concrete block walls
> or if you want built in shelves reduce the depth or preferably increase
> the width significantly.
>
> Personally straight down and concrete walls would be my choice, its
> simpler to line and greatly increases the water volume, plant shelves
> can them be made of benchs sat on the pond floor or plants can be hung
> in baskets from the sides. Make sure you or visitors could, unaided,
> get out of 6ft deep water should they fall in
>
> That said I would do some research before going any further, look into
> filtration, pumps, access, wiring and plumbing etc
>
> A good UK site to browse is http://www.koicymru.co.uk/construct.htm
> http://www.yorkshirekoi.co.uk/ may also be useful
>
> useful american board is
> http://208.67.224.245/forums/
> the latter is for ideas, not techniques, their building methods differ
> from ours.
>
> Re a minimum thickness for soil levees, I dont know numeric values but
> I think they are a good idea because, IMO, they allow the pond level to
> be above the surrounding ground level which avoids runoff and liner
> ballooning issues. Mine is about 2ft wide at the top, ie wide enough
> for a path, for ease of access reasons not structural.

Cheers for that.

The plan is to have a rectangular pond 4 metres by 2 metres, which slopes
(steeply) down to a maximum depth of 2 metres. I wasn't planning on shelves,
but I like your idea of sitting benches in there if need be.

I'm very grateful for all the advice - but another question if I may -
is/are there any newsgroups/forums that stay more on topic. I know what
usenet is like, but as a newbie it strikes me that this ng seems to attract
far more than the usual share of OT flames & squabbles.

[[email protected]]

I think there is. I dont see much cause I use the filters heavily. there is/was
somebody on the list who fights on all channels and brought the fight here.
sorry. Ingrid

"Manky Badger" > wrote:
>I'm very grateful for all the advice - but another question if I may -
>is/are there any newsgroups/forums that stay more on topic. I know what
>usenet is like, but as a newbie it strikes me that this ng seems to attract
>far more than the usual share of OT flames & squabbles.
>
>
>
>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

[BoyPete]

Manky Badger wrote:
> "sean mckinney" > wrote in
> message ...

snip
> I'm very grateful for all the advice - but another question if I may -
> is/are there any newsgroups/forums that stay more on topic. I know
> what usenet is like, but as a newbie it strikes me that this ng seems
> to attract far more than the usual share of OT flames & squabbles.

If you find one, let me know please! :)
--
ßôyþëtë

[Köi-Lö]

"Manky Badger" > wrote in message
...
> I'm very grateful for all the advice - but another question if I may -
> is/are there any newsgroups/forums that stay more on topic. I know what
> usenet is like, but as a newbie it strikes me that this ng seems to
> attract far more than the usual share of OT flames & squabbles.
==========================
Yes. But unfortunately I don't have the information to give. I don't care
much for Internet Forums. I stick with Usenet.
I'm sure someone will come along and post the information for you.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Köi-Lö]

"BoyPete" > wrote in message
...
> Manky Badger wrote:
>> "sean mckinney" > wrote in
>> message ...
>
> snip
>> I'm very grateful for all the advice - but another question if I may -
>> is/are there any newsgroups/forums that stay more on topic. I know
>> what usenet is like, but as a newbie it strikes me that this ng seems
>> to attract far more than the usual share of OT flames & squabbles.
>
> If you find one, let me know please! :)
=================
You might have to do a search of this NG as I know there are at least two
online Pond Forums that are moderated. Both were mentioned here in the past
year.
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>