Freshwater / Tropical fish dilemma!

[El Roberto]

Right, after massacring 2 goldfish, 3 fantails and a black moor during my
abortive first attempts at amateur fishkeeping, I've done all my homework
and am now pretty much ready to start over again.

I'm using a 21 litre tank, and have been trying to cycle it for 2 weeks now
by adding cycling bacteria, a plant, and putting food in there to rot and
produce ammonia. Thus far there are no nitrites at all, some nitrate (which
I assume is a good thing, as it shows the bacteria are working), although I
don't have an ammonia test kit.

Anyhoo, I'm going to be patient and take it easy, and am probably going to
buy a fish tomorrow, most likely something small that won't grow huge and
will be happy in a relatively small tank. So the questions I have are:

a) Any suggestions for a good starter freshwater fish that is pretty durable
and won't grow to a huge size? I want something quite pretty so am prepared
to pay a bit over the usual bog-standard prices....

b) I'm considering buying a heater and getting some tetras or tropical fish:
is this advisable for my first proper tank? I was trying to think of the
extra hassles that heated tanks would bring, but can't really think of any.
What are the pros and cons? I assume you can add cold water during 10% water
changes....

Any ideas would be much appreciated - determined to get it right this time!

R

[JamesG]

El Roberto wrote:
> Right, after massacring 2 goldfish, 3 fantails and a black moor during my
> abortive first attempts at amateur fishkeeping, I've done all my homework
> and am now pretty much ready to start over again.
>
> I'm using a 21 litre tank, and have been trying to cycle it for 2 weeks now
> by adding cycling bacteria, a plant, and putting food in there to rot and
> produce ammonia. Thus far there are no nitrites at all, some nitrate (which
> I assume is a good thing, as it shows the bacteria are working), although I
> don't have an ammonia test kit.
>
> Anyhoo, I'm going to be patient and take it easy, and am probably going to
> buy a fish tomorrow, most likely something small that won't grow huge and
> will be happy in a relatively small tank. So the questions I have are:
>
> a) Any suggestions for a good starter freshwater fish that is pretty durable
> and won't grow to a huge size? I want something quite pretty so am prepared
> to pay a bit over the usual bog-standard prices....
>
> b) I'm considering buying a heater and getting some tetras or tropical fish:
> is this advisable for my first proper tank? I was trying to think of the
> extra hassles that heated tanks would bring, but can't really think of any.
> What are the pros and cons? I assume you can add cold water during 10% water
> changes....
>
> Any ideas would be much appreciated - determined to get it right this time!
>
> R

Here are some fish that I have had that have been good survivors for
me:
White Clouds, Lemon Tetras, Buenos Aires Tetras, Kuhli Loach (my
favorite and a good bottom feeder), Glowlight Tetra, Beacon Tetra,
Danios. I have also had decent results with Neons.

Good Luck,
James

[carlrs]

El Roberto wrote:
> Right, after massacring 2 goldfish, 3 fantails and a black moor during my
> abortive first attempts at amateur fishkeeping, I've done all my homework
> and am now pretty much ready to start over again.
>
> I'm using a 21 litre tank, and have been trying to cycle it for 2 weeks now
> by adding cycling bacteria, a plant, and putting food in there to rot and
> produce ammonia. Thus far there are no nitrites at all, some nitrate (which
> I assume is a good thing, as it shows the bacteria are working), although I
> don't have an ammonia test kit.
>
> Anyhoo, I'm going to be patient and take it easy, and am probably going to
> buy a fish tomorrow, most likely something small that won't grow huge and
> will be happy in a relatively small tank. So the questions I have are:
>
> a) Any suggestions for a good starter freshwater fish that is pretty durable
> and won't grow to a huge size? I want something quite pretty so am prepared
> to pay a bit over the usual bog-standard prices....
>
> b) I'm considering buying a heater and getting some tetras or tropical fish:
> is this advisable for my first proper tank? I was trying to think of the
> extra hassles that heated tanks would bring, but can't really think of any.
> What are the pros and cons? I assume you can add cold water during 10% water
> changes....
>
> Any ideas would be much appreciated - determined to get it right this time!
>
> R

Glad to hear you are giving it a try again and that you are taking it
slow.
You have a rather small aquarium to allow for much variety of fish
selection.
I like dwarf gouramis as a pretty fish that do well in a small
aquarium, but even these fish really do better in a 35 liter aquarium
or larger.
I would stay with tetras, danios , white clouds, rasboras, maybe male
livebears such as platties.
My first aquarium over 35 years ago was about your size and consisted
of similar fish. I had a heater too and with help from my LFS did OK
(but I certainly had my lessons).
I would still invest in an ammonia, KH, and pH test kit to keep the
guessing down.
As for the cold water in a 10% change, it depends how cold. If it is
more than 5 C, I would consider add warm water to it, but this is just
an opinion based on not wanting to add any artificial stress to my
fish.

Good Luck,
Carl

[Larry Blanchard]

El Roberto wrote:

> I'm using a 21 litre tank,
>

I may have missed where you're from, but the 21 liters implies you're not from
the U.S. :-). Here, a 10 gallon (41 liters?) is pretty much the standard
starter tank, and a lot of folks on this group will tell you that's too
small.

>
> a) Any suggestions for a good starter freshwater fish that is pretty durable
> and won't grow to a huge size? I want something quite pretty so am prepared
> to pay a bit over the usual bog-standard prices....
>

About the only thing I'd put in a 5 gallon tank is a betta or a half dozen
white clouds or neons. BTW, in spite of common beliefs, a betta will greatly
appreciate a heated tank. But it's hard to get a decent heater for your
small tank. The white clouds would be your best bet - no heater needed if
the tank is in a heated room.

If you want, you could plant a small cryptocoryne. The white clouds would
look great swimming in and out among the leaves.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:48:37 -0700, Larry Blanchard
> wrote:

>But it's hard to get a decent heater for your
>small tank.

6", 25W, unbreakable heaters are available. The trouble is they cost
more than the tank!

Steve

--
Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software

EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
http://www.easynn.com

[Larry Blanchard]

wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:48:37 -0700, Larry Blanchard
> > wrote:
>
>>But it's hard to get a decent heater for your
>>small tank.
>
> 6", 25W, unbreakable heaters are available. The trouble is they cost
> more than the tank!
>
And if they stick on, they can overheat a 5 gallon tank in short order!

Despite the "common wisdom" that specifies 5wpg, I put 2-3wpg in my tanks.
They seem quite adequate and give me a bigger safety margin if they stick in
the on position, which I understand is the most common failure mode.

And a 10-15 watt heater for a 5 gallon tank is not, AFAIK, available. There
is a tiny permanently on heater but it gives a water temperature related to
room temperature. If you set your thermostat down at night, as we do, the
tank temperature goes down as well.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:12:34 -0700, Larry Blanchard
> wrote:

wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:48:37 -0700, Larry Blanchard
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>But it's hard to get a decent heater for your
>>>small tank.
>>
>> 6", 25W, unbreakable heaters are available. The trouble is they cost
>> more than the tank!
>>
>And if they stick on, they can overheat a 5 gallon tank in short order!

Yes, I know that but, in my experience, 25W heaters don't stick. The
contacts don't suffer from too many melting sparks. The small,
unbreakable ones are electronic so even less likely to stick.

>
>Despite the "common wisdom" that specifies 5wpg, I put 2-3wpg in my tanks.
>They seem quite adequate and give me a bigger safety margin if they stick in
>the on position, which I understand is the most common failure mode.

I agree, in fact in a warm room I have a 100 gallon tank with just a
100W heater. If that stuck on it wouldn't even be noticed.

>
>And a 10-15 watt heater for a 5 gallon tank is not, AFAIK, available. There
>is a tiny permanently on heater but it gives a water temperature related to
>room temperature. If you set your thermostat down at night, as we do, the
>tank temperature goes down as well.

The above 100 gallon tank will retain its temperature for hours so
even if it was switched off at night I doubt it would drop more than a
few degrees.

Steve

--
Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software

EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
http://www.easynn.com

[Larry Blanchard]

wrote:

> The above 100 gallon tank will retain its temperature for hours so
> even if it was switched off at night I doubt it would drop more than a
> few degrees.

True. But lest the OP get the wrong idea, the same is NOT true for a five
gallon tank :-).

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

[...21 litre tank...]

1: In my mind almost too small for the most - even dwarf -
fish species..

2: Please try to avoid hectic wanderers like some rasbora,
brachydanio..

3: Add some MTS. Snails are able to transform dead food,
plants or fish into excellent nitrifying bacteria food..

4: What's about lightening and water parameters..?

> a) Any suggestions for a good starter freshwater fish that
> is pretty durable and won't grow to a huge size? I want
> something quite pretty so am prepared to pay a bit over
> the usual bog-standard prices....

5: Some tiny colourfull killi fish?

> b) I'm considering buying a heater and getting some tetras
> or tropical fish: is this advisable for my first proper
> tank?

6: Yes. In the 60s were 5W and 10W permanent heaters and
low flow filters available for smaller tanks. Missed them
later in the pet fish stores but they staged a comeback
in the *Nano* world..

7: Would recommend a 10W thermostat heater and a filter with
maximum 60 l/h (15 g/h) output..

> I was trying to think of the extra hassles that
> heated tanks would bring, but can't really think of any.
> What are the pros and cons?

8: I suppose for a beginner a tropical tank were easier to
set up and to manage. A lot of colourful tropical _dwarf_
fish are available.

> I assume you can add cold
> water during 10% water changes....

9: Well, where I come from tap water is drinking water so
I'm used to recommend water changes of 30-60%. But see no
problem to warm treated tap water up to room temperature in
a bucket or so, or you might even stick a small thermostat
heater in that bucket. Feel challenged to be
creative..! :-)

> Any ideas would be much appreciated - determined to get it
> right this time!

Have fun and enjoy..!

--
cu
Marco

[swarvegorilla]

"El Roberto" > wrote in message
...
> Right, after massacring 2 goldfish, 3 fantails and a black moor during my
> abortive first attempts at amateur fishkeeping, I've done all my homework
> and am now pretty much ready to start over again.
>
> I'm using a 21 litre tank, and have been trying to cycle it for 2 weeks
> now by adding cycling bacteria, a plant, and putting food in there to rot
> and produce ammonia. Thus far there are no nitrites at all, some nitrate
> (which I assume is a good thing, as it shows the bacteria are working),
> although I don't have an ammonia test kit.
>
> Anyhoo, I'm going to be patient and take it easy, and am probably going to
> buy a fish tomorrow, most likely something small that won't grow huge and
> will be happy in a relatively small tank. So the questions I have are:
>
> a) Any suggestions for a good starter freshwater fish that is pretty
> durable and won't grow to a huge size? I want something quite pretty so am
> prepared to pay a bit over the usual bog-standard prices....
>
> b) I'm considering buying a heater and getting some tetras or tropical
> fish: is this advisable for my first proper tank? I was trying to think of
> the extra hassles that heated tanks would bring, but can't really think of
> any. What are the pros and cons? I assume you can add cold water during
> 10% water changes....
>
> Any ideas would be much appreciated - determined to get it right this
> time!
>
> R
>


your ammonia is prob thru the roof
if nitrites haven't showed up and then fallen away then you are still weeks
away
get the store to check your water for ammonia
or be ready to do some serious water changes