consistant 0.1 ppm Ntirite reading in established tank. what's going on?!

[Paul]

This is really starting to bother me. 18 days ago I added around 12 inches
of fish to my 120 gallon tank, to go with the rest of the african cichlids
that have been in the tank for almost a year. soon after I go a small
reading of nitrite.. around 0.1-0.3 ppm. almost 2 weeks later and I still
have this small reading showing up on my test kit. it's the faintest tinge
of purple colour on my test sample, but it's there. I would have though such
a minor spike would have gone by now? or is it the case that it might still
take 2-3 weeks like a "real" cycle spike?

very confused.. my filtration is a sump system that turns over the tank
volume 4-5 times an hour. it's a well stocked tank, with around 100 inches
of fish in there, fed quite well, but not much hits the substrate. I've done
3 20 % water changes in the 2 weeks and 3 gravel vacs...

what am I doing wrong??

[NetMax]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> This is really starting to bother me. 18 days ago I added around 12
inches
> of fish to my 120 gallon tank, to go with the rest of the african
cichlids
> that have been in the tank for almost a year. soon after I go a small
> reading of nitrite.. around 0.1-0.3 ppm. almost 2 weeks later and I
still
> have this small reading showing up on my test kit. it's the faintest
tinge
> of purple colour on my test sample, but it's there. I would have though
such
> a minor spike would have gone by now? or is it the case that it might
still
> take 2-3 weeks like a "real" cycle spike?
>
> very confused.. my filtration is a sump system that turns over the
tank
> volume 4-5 times an hour. it's a well stocked tank, with around 100
inches
> of fish in there, fed quite well, but not much hits the substrate. I've
done
> 3 20 % water changes in the 2 weeks and 3 gravel vacs...
>
> what am I doing wrong??

Can you provide some more data, NH3, NO3 (and rate) and pH? One of the
nitrite oxidizers (nitrobacter) is more sensitive to low O2 levels, and
also cannot oxidize NO2 to NO3 in the absence of phosphates. At a basic
level though, it sounds like you're at your filter's threshold. The
filter size ratio is not about fish, inches per gallon or bio-load. It's
about total grams of food, and if these guys are all eating well, then
that's a lot of biological activity going on. Reducing your temperature
a few degrees (reduce their hunger) and feeding less (total quantity)
might get your nitrogen chain balanced again. If yes, then you need to
add a filter. If not, then it's back to chemistry and it might be a lack
of phosphates (?). Water changes should help that unless your source
water is void as well. Fish foods have varying amounts of phosphates
(also listed in the ingredients as ash I think). Alternately, has
anything changed around the sump to make it less bacteria friendly? Was
there a change in quantity of plants used, or in the filter media?
Adding 12" to 90" of fish would (in theory) require less than 14 hours
for the bacteria to compensate.
--
http://www.NetMax.tk/

[Paul]

NetMax wrote in message ...
>"Paul" > wrote in message
...
>> This is really starting to bother me. 18 days ago I added around 12
>inches
>> of fish to my 120 gallon tank, to go with the rest of the african
>cichlids
>> that have been in the tank for almost a year. soon after I go a small
>> reading of nitrite.. around 0.1-0.3 ppm. almost 2 weeks later and I
>still
>> have this small reading showing up on my test kit. it's the faintest
>tinge
>> of purple colour on my test sample, but it's there. I would have though
>such
>> a minor spike would have gone by now? or is it the case that it might
>still
>> take 2-3 weeks like a "real" cycle spike?
>>
>> very confused.. my filtration is a sump system that turns over the
>tank
>> volume 4-5 times an hour. it's a well stocked tank, with around 100
>inches
>> of fish in there, fed quite well, but not much hits the substrate. I've
>done
>> 3 20 % water changes in the 2 weeks and 3 gravel vacs...
>>
>> what am I doing wrong??
>
>Can you provide some more data, NH3, NO3 (and rate) and pH? One of the
>nitrite oxidizers (nitrobacter) is more sensitive to low O2 levels, and
>also cannot oxidize NO2 to NO3 in the absence of phosphates. At a basic
>level though, it sounds like you're at your filter's threshold. The
>filter size ratio is not about fish, inches per gallon or bio-load. It's
>about total grams of food, and if these guys are all eating well, then
>that's a lot of biological activity going on. Reducing your temperature
>a few degrees (reduce their hunger) and feeding less (total quantity)
>might get your nitrogen chain balanced again. If yes, then you need to
>add a filter. If not, then it's back to chemistry and it might be a lack
>of phosphates (?). Water changes should help that unless your source
>water is void as well. Fish foods have varying amounts of phosphates
>(also listed in the ingredients as ash I think). Alternately, has
>anything changed around the sump to make it less bacteria friendly? Was
>there a change in quantity of plants used, or in the filter media?
>Adding 12" to 90" of fish would (in theory) require less than 14 hours
>for the bacteria to compensate.
>--
>http://www.NetMax.tk/


thankyou for the quick reply.

some extra info:

*my ammonia was also registering a tiny amount (around 0.1ppm) I haven't
checked lately though.

*last time I checked my nitrate it was around 4-7ppm.

*PH is around 7.8 - 8

*3 large java ferns (12-15" each) on other large plant of the same size.


You back up my idea/suspicion that my filter is at it's threshold. I know
alot of people in my area using the same water supply as me who do not have
any problems with phosphates. I have been using the Easy Life Fluid Filter
Media, which claims to remove phosphates from the water though. But;

I have a feeling the drip tray for the sump may be tilted, which means all
the water will be flowing out the holes in one corner of the drip tray,
which will be reducing the surface area of the foam media in the filter that
is getting wet. I will rectify this when I get home. I also have a few kilos
of inch size balls of what we call lava rock. I think you guys might call it
texas holy rock. I'm going to add that to the filter (some above, some below
the surface of the water) and that should pretty well double my
bio-inhabitable surface area. I'm talking about alot of rock pieces).

so a couple of questions now.

1. Do you agree that this addtion of several kilos of this rock and
rectifying the possible tilting of the drip tray will give me a good enough
boost in surface area to compensate for this 0.1 ppm of nitrite?

2. how long, after these adjustments, will it take to read 0 in the Nitrite
test kit?

p.s. tap water has been tested and contains no nitrites. my other tank of
around half the volume with only around 10 inches of fish does not have this
problem.

[NetMax]

"Paul" > wrote in message
...
>
> NetMax wrote in message ...
> >"Paul" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> This is really starting to bother me. 18 days ago I added around 12
> >inches
> >> of fish to my 120 gallon tank, to go with the rest of the african
> >cichlids
> >> that have been in the tank for almost a year. soon after I go a
small
> >> reading of nitrite.. around 0.1-0.3 ppm. almost 2 weeks later and I
> >still
> >> have this small reading showing up on my test kit. it's the faintest
> >tinge
> >> of purple colour on my test sample, but it's there. I would have
though
> >such
> >> a minor spike would have gone by now? or is it the case that it
might
> >still
> >> take 2-3 weeks like a "real" cycle spike?
> >>
> >> very confused.. my filtration is a sump system that turns over the
> >tank
> >> volume 4-5 times an hour. it's a well stocked tank, with around 100
> >inches
> >> of fish in there, fed quite well, but not much hits the substrate.
I've
> >done
> >> 3 20 % water changes in the 2 weeks and 3 gravel vacs...
> >>
> >> what am I doing wrong??
> >
> >Can you provide some more data, NH3, NO3 (and rate) and pH? One of
the
> >nitrite oxidizers (nitrobacter) is more sensitive to low O2 levels,
and
> >also cannot oxidize NO2 to NO3 in the absence of phosphates. At a
basic
> >level though, it sounds like you're at your filter's threshold. The
> >filter size ratio is not about fish, inches per gallon or bio-load.
It's
> >about total grams of food, and if these guys are all eating well, then
> >that's a lot of biological activity going on. Reducing your
temperature
> >a few degrees (reduce their hunger) and feeding less (total quantity)
> >might get your nitrogen chain balanced again. If yes, then you need
to
> >add a filter. If not, then it's back to chemistry and it might be a
lack
> >of phosphates (?). Water changes should help that unless your source
> >water is void as well. Fish foods have varying amounts of phosphates
> >(also listed in the ingredients as ash I think). Alternately, has
> >anything changed around the sump to make it less bacteria friendly?
Was
> >there a change in quantity of plants used, or in the filter media?
> >Adding 12" to 90" of fish would (in theory) require less than 14 hours
> >for the bacteria to compensate.
> >--
> >http://www.NetMax.tk/
>
>
> thankyou for the quick reply.
>
> some extra info:
>
> *my ammonia was also registering a tiny amount (around 0.1ppm) I
haven't
> checked lately though.
>
> *last time I checked my nitrate it was around 4-7ppm.
>
> *PH is around 7.8 - 8
>
> *3 large java ferns (12-15" each) on other large plant of the same
size.
>
>
> You back up my idea/suspicion that my filter is at it's threshold. I
know
> alot of people in my area using the same water supply as me who do not
have
> any problems with phosphates. I have been using the Easy Life Fluid
Filter
> Media, which claims to remove phosphates from the water though. But;

The use of 'Easy Life Fluid Filter Media' is a significant variable
affecting your water parameters and will negate the accuracy of any
conjecture regarding your symptoms, because you will not know exactly how
this stuff works, and I have no personal experience with it.

> I have a feeling the drip tray for the sump may be tilted, which means
all
> the water will be flowing out the holes in one corner of the drip tray,
> which will be reducing the surface area of the foam media in the filter
that
> is getting wet. I will rectify this when I get home. I also have a few
kilos
> of inch size balls of what we call lava rock. I think you guys might
call it
> texas holy rock. I'm going to add that to the filter (some above, some
below
> the surface of the water) and that should pretty well double my
> bio-inhabitable surface area. I'm talking about alot of rock pieces).
>
> so a couple of questions now.
>
> 1. Do you agree that this addtion of several kilos of this rock and
> rectifying the possible tilting of the drip tray will give me a good
enough
> boost in surface area to compensate for this 0.1 ppm of nitrite?
>
> 2. how long, after these adjustments, will it take to read 0 in the
Nitrite
> test kit?

Your strategy is sound. I don't know what timetable you can expect.
Biofilm starts in a few days. I strongly suggest adding a 2nd filter.
Your fish are only going to grow (consuming the remaining capacity of the
extra bio-surface being added), and you are highly dependant on your one
filter, which appears to have been running over it's capacity
(considering your plants were also carrying part of the load). You sound
like you have a significant investment in that tank, more than you might
want to risk in the event of a filter failure (hose comes loose, pump
clogged, impeller jammed etc). Your 2nd filter does not need to be
huge. Something rated for 70-100g would be right for redundancy.

--
www.NetMax.tk

> p.s. tap water has been tested and contains no nitrites. my other tank
of
> around half the volume with only around 10 inches of fish does not have
this
> problem.
>
>
>
>

[paul goodhew]

>
> Your strategy is sound. I don't know what timetable you can expect.
> Biofilm starts in a few days. I strongly suggest adding a 2nd filter.
> Your fish are only going to grow (consuming the remaining capacity of the
> extra bio-surface being added), and you are highly dependant on your one
> filter, which appears to have been running over it's capacity
> (considering your plants were also carrying part of the load). You sound
> like you have a significant investment in that tank, more than you might
> want to risk in the event of a filter failure (hose comes loose, pump
> clogged, impeller jammed etc). Your 2nd filter does not need to be
> huge. Something rated for 70-100g would be right for redundancy.


thankyou kindly for your feedback. I will grab an extra filter an also make
the adjustments to my plumbing as detailed in my post above.

p.s. went to your website, I have to admit, I went straight to the photo and
got quite a suprise.. I was expecting you to look more like cross between
the dad from Seventh heaven and the grey haired detective on law and order!!

[Happy'Cam'per]

"paul goodhew" > wrote in message
...
> p.s. went to your website, I have to admit, I went straight to the photo
and
> got quite a suprise.. I was expecting you to look more like cross between
> the dad from Seventh heaven and the grey haired detective on law and
order!!
>

LOL :) I was expecting a Mad Max long haired look alike .....heheh :) What
with all the talk of bikes and such!
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[NetMax]

"Happy'Cam'per" > wrote in message
...
> "paul goodhew" > wrote in message
> ...
> > p.s. went to your website, I have to admit, I went straight to the
photo
> and
> > got quite a suprise.. I was expecting you to look more like cross
between
> > the dad from Seventh heaven and the grey haired detective on law and
> order!!
> >
>
> LOL :) I was expecting a Mad Max long haired look alike .....heheh :)
What
> with all the talk of bikes and such!
> --
> **So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Hey bikes & fishies aren't my only hobbies. I do renovations,
auto-mechanics and lately I'm in to fountains & waterfalls (and you'd be
surprised what the bad biker look can go with), but as a bachelor, I'm
happy Paul doesn't think I look like an antique (there is hope for me yet
;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk