snails from nowhere

[un Edge]

Has anyone seen strange snails appear in their tank? They look just like
these: http://www.applesnail.net/content/snails_various.php#Physidae

I have has golden apple/mystery snails in the tank at one time, but that
was several weeks ago and they did not survive. The only other thing
that have been in the tank was 6 Danios and a Betta. The betta have been
moved into a seperate tank also several weeks ago. No live plants were
planted in the tank. This is a 5gal Hex tank that is only 2 months old.

The only thing I can imagine is that the siphon used to clean this tank
was also used in another tank that would have transfered some eggs or
something, but no other tank has these snails in it.

Has anyone had this happened? Does anyone know if these snails are ok or
more of a pest? I see little egg sacs stuck to the side of the tank and
don't know how long it will be before they will become snails. Any
ideas?

--
Jose Ng - un@gehennom | CRAFT
Can't Remember A Frigging Thing. Polite version. Great for describing
a tedious training course or meeting, or one of those awful roadshow
'pep up the workers' presentations by the new CEO.

[nuchumYussel]

If you have gotten any new plants recently, the sanils could have
hitched a ride on the plant.

Evan Davis

[un Edge]

nuchumYussel > wrote:
< If you have gotten any new plants recently, the sanils could have
< hitched a ride on the plant.

No live plants were ever in this tank. I originally thought these snails
were the offspring of the mystery/apple snails but these snails are a
different species completely. This puzzles me greatly.

I saw on a website that Bettas will eat snail eggs, has anyone observed
this? If so, I may introduce a betta into the tank to help control the
proliferation of these 'physa' snails. Can anyone give some info as to
the rate of reporduction and time it takes for eggs to become snails?
Any advice is much appreciated.

--
Jose Ng - un@gehennom | LOBNAH
Lights On But Nobody's At Home. For people who say that
they've been listening when really we know they haven't.

[nuchumYussel]

I haven't heard this about Bettas, but if you want a fish that would
eat the snails, I would highly reccomend a Clown Loach.

Evan

[IDzine01]

(nuchumYussel) wrote in message >...
> I haven't heard this about Bettas, but if you want a fish that would
> eat the snails, I would highly reccomend a Clown Loach.
>
> Evan

Some bettas will eat small snails and/or eggs. It depends on if he
likes them or not. I have an infestation of pond snails that hitched a
ride on my live plants. At first they were cute and left them alone.
Then they mowed down my wisteria and put holes in my crypts. Darn
things. When I see eggs I wrap them around a tooth pick and feed them
to my betta. He doesn't seem to much care for them, but I hoped if he
developed a taste he would take care of the problem on their own.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the bio-load. (General
guideline for how many fish can be kept in one tank) but your tank is
severely overstocked. 5 gal is way too small for 6 danios, a betta,
and apple and mystery snails. You have enough fish to stock nearly 20
gal of water. Remember, it's about 1 gal per adult inch of fish. So if
Danios represent 2 inches of fish each and bettas represent 3 inches
you're already up to 15 inches (or gal) of fish (or water). You didn't
say how many snails you have, but I count each of my Mystery snails as
about 2 inches. (They poo like crazy and DO affect the bio-load)

I would consider a much larger tank for your danios and leave the
betta in the 5 gal hex with 2 apple or mystery snails. If you're
lucky, he'll develop a taste for pond snails. ;)

[Victor Martinez]

nuchumYussel wrote:
> I haven't heard this about Bettas, but if you want a fish that would
> eat the snails, I would highly reccomend a Clown Loach.

Not for a five gallon already over-stocked tank! Clown loaches are
gregarious critters, they need to be in groups of 3 or more, over 5 is
best. And they get big! I only recommend them for tanks over 55 gallons.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[un Edge]

IDzine01 > wrote:
< to my betta. He doesn't seem to much care for them, but I hoped if he
< developed a taste he would take care of the problem on their own.
<
< I'm not sure how familiar you are with the bio-load. (General
< guideline for how many fish can be kept in one tank) but your tank is
< severely overstocked. 5 gal is way too small for 6 danios, a betta,
< and apple and mystery snails. You have enough fish to stock nearly 20

I am aware of the problems associated with bio-load. Originally, all
that was in the tank was the betta and 2 mystery snails. Snails died and
I added 2 Danios.

In my second 5gallon Hex tank, I had 4 other Danios and a pair of
guppies. The guppies had released fry and the danios ate a few of them
so I decided to move danios into the betta tank. The adult guppies died
but the fry remained and survived ok until several was sucked into the
power filter. At the moment, there remain 9 fry that are about a month
old.

The betta was soon moved into it's own bowl and appears to be active and
healthy. 25% Water changes and gravel cleaning to these tanks occur
twice a week and less than 1/2 inch of gravel is used in the tanks.

I've heard of the 1-inch per gallon rule and that seems generally
reasonable. A friend has a larger tank with platy and mollies which
appear to be 'pooping' all the time compared to danios which are much
less frequent. I know physa snails must release waste also, but I've
yet to see it and they appear to be doing a lot of cleaning to the
side of the tank.

So with regular cleaning, relatively clean fish, and a bio-wheel filter,
i think the 6 danios are doing not so bad. Bettas are especially low
maintainence and can do fine in less than a gallon. I will see if moving
the betta short term to control the snail eggs will work, and is
probably better than letting the snails proliferate unchecked.

--
Jose Ng - un@gehennom | SIG
Stroppy Ignorant Git. A good one for customer service training.

[IDzine01]

un Edge > wrote in message >...

> I am aware of the problems associated with bio-load. Originally, all
> that was in the tank was the betta and 2 mystery snails. Snails died and
> I added 2 Danios.

Ok, just checking. You can never tell how much experience people have
with these message board things so I wasn't sure if you were aware.
Glad to know you are.

> Bettas are especially low
> maintainence and can do fine in less than a gallon. I will see if moving
> the betta short term to control the snail eggs will work, and is
> probably better than letting the snails proliferate unchecked.

I try not to give too much advice with any fish other then bettas.
I've researched them extensively and now spend most of my free time
educating others about these amazing fish. When I'm not teaching, I'm
learning everything I can about them.

I just wanted to add, while Bettas are sold as "beginner level" fish,
they really should be considered more of an intermediate fish. They
can be quite sensitive to their environments and are probably subject
to more myths and misunderstandings then any other aquarium fish. For
instance, fish stores all over the world sell them as fish that can be
kept in unheated bowls less then one gallon, but really this is false.
One gallon is the minimum and 2.5gal or larger is prefered. (Because
of heating and cycling) They don't require cycled tanks but because
they are so sensitive to ammonia and nitrite poisoning (experience
problems at even .25 ppm) cycled tanks are preferred. Ok, I'm totally
getting of the subject.

Anyway, I'd love to know if you can get them to eat your snail eggs. I
suspect if you feed your bettas frozen or live food (vs. pellets) they
will be more likely to develop a taste for snails. At least, I hope.
Good luck!

[obladi]

obviously a "mystery" snail

[un Edge]

IDzine01 > wrote:
< I just wanted to add, while Bettas are sold as "beginner level" fish,
< they really should be considered more of an intermediate fish. They

< Anyway, I'd love to know if you can get them to eat your snail eggs. I
< suspect if you feed your bettas frozen or live food (vs. pellets) they

Can you tell me about ill bettas? At one time, my betta appeared ill
because it looked like it's fins were sticking together, less active,
and appeared to want to hide on the side of large rocks. Then a week
later, it seemed to have recovered completely after it was moved into
it's own bowl. It's now very active and never just floats motionless
like many other bettas I've seen.

Also, why doesn't my betta like to eat BettaMin flakes? It prefers
bloodworms and dried shrimp and would spit out the BettaMin flakes when
feeding.

I'll move the betta into the Danios-Snail tank after I clean/change
some water. Updates to follow..

--
Jose Ng - un@gehennom | IBM
I Blame Microsoft. Specially for those who find it difficult to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or more usually, inactivity.

[coelacanth]

"obladi" > wrote in message
...
> obviously a "mystery" snail

OUCH

[IDzine01]

un Edge > wrote in message >...

> Can you tell me about ill bettas?

Sure, excuse me if I get long-winded.
90% of the time Bettas get sick because some sort of stress has
compromised their immune systems. There are many possible reasons for
a betta to become stressed. The majority of the time it has to do with
environmental factors. Bettas require some basic needs and when those
needs are not met, they develop problems. Here are a few basics:

1. Bettas should be kept in no less then 1 gal of water but 2.5 gal or
larger are preferred because it can be difficult to stabilize the
temperature and pH in a small tank and while bettas don't require
cycled tanks it really helps a lot.

2. They are tropical and despite what LFS employees might tell you,
they should not be kept at room temperature. The ideal temp is about
78F but 75 – 80 is acceptable as long as it's stable with little
fluctuation from day to day. Temps that are too cool can lead to Ich
and temps that are too warm promote Flex (there is relatively new
strain of flex affecting bettas now that is especially serious and can
kill a betta in less then 24 hours)

3. Food choices affect your betta. Most breeders offer their bettas
live or frozen food, which is nutritious and tasty to betta. When you
get him home and try to feed him flakes or pellets he doesn't want
them because they don't' reflect a natural diet. Flake, freeze-dried
or pellet food was not designed with a bettas short digestive track in
mind and contains so many fillers and/or such low moisture content
that they themselves can cause health problems. Dry food may cause
bloating, constipation or even swim bladder disorder in some bettas.
Bettas also, cannot be fed like other fish. They are easily overfed
and their food should be closely monitored. A rule of thumb is: a
betta's stomach is only as big as one of his eyeballs and shouldn't be
fed more then that amount at a time. He will eat and eat until he
makes himself sick. Usually a full grown male can eat about 3
bloodworms in the morning and again at night. That's safe amount.
Better diet choices include bloodworms, daphnia, tubifex, glassworms,
grindal worms, white worms, beefheart, wingless fruit flies and brine
shrimp in moderation.

4. The number one cause of betta illness is exposure to ammonia or
nitrites. They should never be exposed to any if that's possible. Even
an ammonia level of .25 ppm can cause irreparable damage in a small
amount of time leading to a whole host of problems; most commonly fin
rot. It also affects gill function and generally depletes their
ability to fight off disease. Regular ammonia testing is a necessity.
To avoid ammonia poisoning in an uncycled tank, 100% water changes
need to be performed regularly. Every betta produces ammonia at a
different rate and there is no one true method to determine how often
YOU should do water changes. (many people say every 7 days, but this
is not a safe estimate) If you have two bettas, their water change
schedules could be different. The only way to know is to test. Here is
an example of how daily testing can help you determine your betta's
water change schedule. This is just an example:
Day 1: 100% water change
Day 2: ammonia test comes back 0
Day 3: ammonia test comes back 0
Day 4: ammonia test comes back 0
Day 5: ammonia test comes back 0
Day 6: ammonia test comes back .2ppm

Now, to avoid ammonia from that point forward you would have to change
his water every 5 days to avoid the ammonia that becomes present on
day 6. You would have to repeat the test if you changed tank size,
added other fish or drastically changed his diet.

5. Bettas can do well in acidic or alkaline (Between 6.5 and 8.0)
water but rapid changes can stress them severely. It's best to avoid
pH changes greater then .2 in 24 hours.

6.Other factors of stress are tank mates. Male bettas shouldn't be
housed with other males or females. One male to a tank. Females can be
housed alone or in groups. It's preferred that females be kept in odd
numbers because they too can be aggressive and odd numbers helps them
to determine a hierarchy. Bettas should never be placed with fin nippy
fish because their fins are very delicate and nipped fins can progress
into infected fins. Also, there should be no plants or decorations
that are coarse enough to rip bettas' fins in the tank. All betta's
are different and some are too aggressive to be housed with any other
fish. If you have one of these bettas establish a plan B where you can
remove him from the community tank and give him his own happy home.

Well those are the basics. If your betta becomes ill, there are
several things you should look at right away.

What's the Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates?
What's the Kh, gh, pH?
What's the temperature?
What is the tank size and filtration?
How often are you changing his water? What amount if the tank is
uncycled?
What kind of water additives and medications are you using?
What's the type of food and amount offered?
Does he have any tank mates, who and when were they added? Were they
quarantined for 4 weeks first?
Is there any unusual behavior? What?


I hope this helps you understand why bettas get sick. Often bettas
become stressed at the fish store and when you bring them home they
get sick because their immune systems have already been compromised.
All you can do is try to diagnose them as soon as possible and treat
accordingly.