Comments on Fluval 404 Canister

[RedForeman ©®]

I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad rep
awhile back...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[Happy'Cam'per]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad rep
> awhile back...

Red, hellooooo, are'nt you glad its Friday and the weekend is upon us, what
a bloody brilliant feeling, I'm digging a pond this weekend, You?

As you can see I'm bored at work and decided to latch onto your post for a
good waffling :). Seriously, last night I was watching telly (reruns of
"that 70's show") and there is a dude named Eric and His fathers name in the
series is called Red Foreman. It was the funniest thing :) Sorry Red but
everytime one of your posts pops up all I can visualise is the old geezer
from the 70's show :) So, if you would be so kind, can you put a photo of
yourself up somewhere so that I can wipe this terrible vision from my mind,
LOL.

Have a nice weekend everyone *waves*
PS, If you're splashing out big bucks for a fancy filter just go all the way
and get an Eheim ;)
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

[RedForeman ©®]

|| Eric Foremans Dad, "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
||| I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad
||| rep awhile back...
||
|| Red, hellooooo, are'nt you glad its Friday and the weekend is upon
|| us, what a bloody brilliant feeling, I'm digging a pond this
|| weekend, You?

The wife wants a pond, but I don't know where to put it... :-) I'm all
for it...

|| As you can see I'm bored at work and decided to latch onto your post
|| for a good waffling :). Seriously, last night I was watching telly
|| (reruns of "that 70's show") and there is a dude named Eric and His
|| fathers name in the series is called Red Foreman. It was the
|| funniest thing :) Sorry Red but everytime one of your posts pops up
|| all I can visualise is the old geezer from the 70's show :) So, if
|| you would be so kind, can you put a photo of yourself up somewhere
|| so that I can wipe this terrible vision from my mind, LOL.

That's pretty much what most people think... Actually, I ride ATVs, and
recently got a Honda Foreman 450ES ATV, and it's 'Red'... :-)

|| Have a nice weekend everyone *waves*
|| PS, If you're splashing out big bucks for a fancy filter just go all
|| the way and get an Eheim ;)

Eheim.... bad experience with Eheim... still having nightmares about my
2217....

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[Dinky]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
| I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad
rep
| awhile back...
|


I have 2, and the valve on top broke on both. I have to set them in a
bucket before opening them....

ymmv

[The Outcaste]

On Fri, 7 May 2004 10:08:58 -0400, "RedForeman ©®"
> bubbled forth the following:

>The wife wants a pond, but I don't know where to put it... :-) I'm all
>for it...

I have a spot in MY back yard you could put it... ;-)

[RedForeman ©®]

|| On Fri, 7 May 2004 10:08:58 -0400, "RedForeman ©®"
|| > bubbled forth the following:
||
||| The wife wants a pond, but I don't know where to put it... :-)
||| I'm all for it...
||
|| I have a spot in MY back yard you could put it... ;-)

Isn't that _ALWAYS_ the way it seems to work out?? :-)

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[The Outcaste]

On Fri, 7 May 2004 10:08:58 -0400, "RedForeman ©®"
> bubbled forth the following:

>The wife wants a pond, but I don't know where to put it... :-) I'm all
>for it...

I have a spot in MY back yard you could put it... ;-)

[Dan J.S.]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad rep
> awhile back...
>
> --
> RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> streetfighter!!! ==========================
> 2003 TRX450ES
> 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> ==========================
> ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
>
>
> is that better??
>
>

I threw mine away. Actually threw two of them out. Both started to leak
(when off)... However there are people that think they are awesome! This was
about 1 year ago.

[Rick]

"Dan J.S." > wrote in message
...
>
> "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad rep
> > awhile back...
> >
> > --
> > RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> > streetfighter!!! ==========================
> > 2003 TRX450ES
> > 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> > '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> > ==========================
> > ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
> >
> >
> > is that better??
> >
> >
>
> I threw mine away. Actually threw two of them out. Both started to leak
> (when off)... However there are people that think they are awesome! This
was
> about 1 year ago.
>
>

I have had mine running for over 2 years now. Initially after 6 months mine
also leaked when turned off. This could easily have turned into a disaster
if the power went out and we were not at home. I returned the unit to my
dealer and they replaced the entire head unit and since then absolutely no
leaking problems at all. They obviously had a problem but the newer models
have had some changes made to the way they close. The Aqua Stop assembly has
two levers, one grey which opens or closes off the water supply and a blue
locking lever which I find very difficult to close. I'm amazed that it has
not broken. For the difference in money I would buy a Filstar or Ehiem.

Rick

[CanadianCray]

Never had a single problem with mine other than figuring out which groove
the o-ring sits in for the head unit. I was ready to throw it across the
room that night.

--
Craig Williams
_________________________________

www.Canadiancray.tk
"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad rep
> awhile back...
>
> --
> RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> streetfighter!!! ==========================
> 2003 TRX450ES
> 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> ==========================
> ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
>
>
> is that better??
>
>

[NetMax]

LOL, I've had a customer who couldn't figure out the gasket either, and
after looking more closely, I realized it wasn't that straightforward.
If you get it right, you just never give it another thought.

I have 2 at home, but only my 304 is comparable to what is in production
now. The 304 doesn't have as much personality as my 201, it just does
what it is supposed to do ;~).

At work, I have 9 or 10 Fluvals running for about 16 months now. I
thought I killed 2 of them when they were run dry by too big a water
change (intakes were above the water). They ran without circulating
water for about 3 days. Whew, did they stink when I opened them. Maybe
I was lucky, but I didn't need to change any parts. They worked like
normal when I put them back in service a few days later.

None of them has ever leaked (they are beside powerbars so I would
notice), but the hose came off one and the tank drained. It was a
*cough* 255 gallon tank (tub) which had about 4" of water left in the
morning. Sure glad I'd bought a wet/dry vacuum, though I should have
gotten the biggest model, so I wouldn't need to empty it so often ;~).
That's something we forget, ||| check all your canister connections once
a year |||. I had my Eheim connections come off in my hands when I was
just moving the filter around. I have to try that pinhole trick in the
intake hose one day.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
...
> Never had a single problem with mine other than figuring out which
groove
> the o-ring sits in for the head unit. I was ready to throw it across
the
> room that night.
>
> --
> Craig Williams
> _________________________________
>
> www.Canadiancray.tk
> "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad
rep
> > awhile back...
> >
> > --
> > RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> > streetfighter!!! ==========================
> > 2003 TRX450ES
> > 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> > '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> > ==========================
> > ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
> >
> >
> > is that better??
> >
> >
>
>

[CanadianCray]

OOOOHHH 255gals! Ouch that had to hurt! :) Yeah I think its time to check my
connections.

--
Craig Williams
_________________________________

www.Canadiancray.tk
"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> LOL, I've had a customer who couldn't figure out the gasket either, and
> after looking more closely, I realized it wasn't that straightforward.
> If you get it right, you just never give it another thought.
>
> I have 2 at home, but only my 304 is comparable to what is in production
> now. The 304 doesn't have as much personality as my 201, it just does
> what it is supposed to do ;~).
>
> At work, I have 9 or 10 Fluvals running for about 16 months now. I
> thought I killed 2 of them when they were run dry by too big a water
> change (intakes were above the water). They ran without circulating
> water for about 3 days. Whew, did they stink when I opened them. Maybe
> I was lucky, but I didn't need to change any parts. They worked like
> normal when I put them back in service a few days later.
>
> None of them has ever leaked (they are beside powerbars so I would
> notice), but the hose came off one and the tank drained. It was a
> *cough* 255 gallon tank (tub) which had about 4" of water left in the
> morning. Sure glad I'd bought a wet/dry vacuum, though I should have
> gotten the biggest model, so I wouldn't need to empty it so often ;~).
> That's something we forget, ||| check all your canister connections once
> a year |||. I had my Eheim connections come off in my hands when I was
> just moving the filter around. I have to try that pinhole trick in the
> intake hose one day.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Never had a single problem with mine other than figuring out which
> groove
> > the o-ring sits in for the head unit. I was ready to throw it across
> the
> > room that night.
> >
> > --
> > Craig Williams
> > _________________________________
> >
> > www.Canadiancray.tk
> > "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad
> rep
> > > awhile back...
> > >
> > > --
> > > RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> > > streetfighter!!! ==========================
> > > 2003 TRX450ES
> > > 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> > > '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> > > ==========================
> > > ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
> > >
> > >
> > > is that better??
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[James Mitchell]

I've had 2 404s running for about 8 months now with absolutely no problems.
I lube all o-rings (main canister o-ring plus 2 o-rings in aquastop) with
silicone each time I clean the filters.

Jim


"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> I may pick up one, priced right... but is it good? Fluval had a bad rep
> awhile back...
>
> --
> RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> streetfighter!!! ==========================
> 2003 TRX450ES
> 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> ==========================
> ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
>
>
> is that better??
>
>
>

[CanadianCray]

Yeah thats a good idea!! I lubcricate my o-rings with vaseline when I
disasemble them.

--
Craig Williams
_________________________________

www.Canadiancray.tk
"James Mitchell" > wrote in message
om...
> I've had 2 404s running for about 8 months now with absolutely no
problems.
> I lube all o-rings (main canister o-ring plus 2 o-rings in aquastop) with
> silicone each time I clean the filters.
>
> Jim

[NetMax]

Just a quick note. I think Vaseline is petroleum based, which breaks
down rubber. I can't recall if Fluval uses silicon or rubber o-rings,
but it's far safer to always use plumber's grease on any o-rings.
Plumber's grease is food-safe non-toxic.

Come to think of it, maybe that is what happens to some people with
leaking canisters. They have been diligently corroding their o-rings
with petroleum based products. I'm going to check with my reps to see if
they mention that in the documentation, and who uses rubber or silicon
gaskets. I'll post the results in
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/filters/filters.shtml#cani (this having
a web site is really getting handy :o).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"CanadianCray" > wrote in message
m...
> Yeah thats a good idea!! I lubcricate my o-rings with vaseline when I
> disasemble them.
>
> --
> Craig Williams
> _________________________________
>
> www.Canadiancray.tk
> "James Mitchell" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I've had 2 404s running for about 8 months now with absolutely no
> problems.
> > I lube all o-rings (main canister o-ring plus 2 o-rings in aquastop)
with
> > silicone each time I clean the filters.
> >
> > Jim
>
>

[CanadianCray]

Well they must be silicone because I have been using it for almost 2 years
now & not a single crack. I work on cars for a living & know that any petrol
based product will break down natural rubber VERY quickly. So it would have
presented itself long ago.

--
Craig Williams
_________________________________

www.Canadiancray.tk
"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> Just a quick note. I think Vaseline is petroleum based, which breaks
> down rubber. I can't recall if Fluval uses silicon or rubber o-rings,
> but it's far safer to always use plumber's grease on any o-rings.
> Plumber's grease is food-safe non-toxic.
>
> Come to think of it, maybe that is what happens to some people with
> leaking canisters. They have been diligently corroding their o-rings
> with petroleum based products. I'm going to check with my reps to see if
> they mention that in the documentation, and who uses rubber or silicon
> gaskets. I'll post the results in
> http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/filters/filters.shtml#cani (this having
> a web site is really getting handy :o).
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
> "CanadianCray" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Yeah thats a good idea!! I lubcricate my o-rings with vaseline when I
> > disasemble them.
> >
> > --
> > Craig Williams
> > _________________________________
> >
> > www.Canadiancray.tk
> > "James Mitchell" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I've had 2 404s running for about 8 months now with absolutely no
> > problems.
> > > I lube all o-rings (main canister o-ring plus 2 o-rings in aquastop)
> with
> > > silicone each time I clean the filters.
> > >
> > > Jim
> >
> >
>
>

[Trevor]

On Sat, 08 May 2004 08:29:37 -0400, CanadianCray wrote:

> OOOOHHH 255gals! Ouch that had to hurt! :) Yeah I think its time to check
> my connections.

That and drill that safety hole in your suction hose!!!

Trev

[Velvet]

Trevor wrote:

> On Sat, 08 May 2004 08:29:37 -0400, CanadianCray wrote:
>
>
>>OOOOHHH 255gals! Ouch that had to hurt! :) Yeah I think its time to check
>>my connections.
>
>
> That and drill that safety hole in your suction hose!!!
>
> Trev
>

Safety hole? what's that/how's it work?

--


Velvet

[Rick]

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> Trevor wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 08 May 2004 08:29:37 -0400, CanadianCray wrote:
> >
> >
> >>OOOOHHH 255gals! Ouch that had to hurt! :) Yeah I think its time to
check
> >>my connections.
> >
> >
> > That and drill that safety hole in your suction hose!!!
> >
> > Trev
> >
>
> Safety hole? what's that/how's it work?
>
> --
>
>
> Velvet


drill a small hole in the intake just below the water line, that way if if
starts to leak out of the canister it can only leak to the level where the
hole is at which time it will start sucking air and the siphon effect will
stop.

Rick

[Velvet]

Rick wrote:


>
>
>
> drill a small hole in the intake just below the water line, that way if if
> starts to leak out of the canister it can only leak to the level where the
> hole is at which time it will start sucking air and the siphon effect will
> stop.
>
> Rick
>
>

Ah, I see! Not a bad idea, that. Presumably you're looking at replacing
the filter if that happens though, due to impeller spinning in air/no
cooling?

--


Velvet

[NetMax]

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> Rick wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > drill a small hole in the intake just below the water line, that way
if if
> > starts to leak out of the canister it can only leak to the level
where the
> > hole is at which time it will start sucking air and the siphon effect
will
> > stop.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
> Ah, I see! Not a bad idea, that. Presumably you're looking at
replacing
> the filter if that happens though, due to impeller spinning in air/no
> cooling?
>
> --
>
>
> Velvet

I'm not sure if that happens in practice. As soon as sufficient air
enters the siphon hose, the filter is no longer working in a closed loop,
where the weight of the water in the 2 hoses cancel each other out. Now
the filter needs to push water up with no help from the weight of the
incoming water and they are not designed to work under a lot of head
pressure. I don't think that they would be able to run bone dry, maybe
just having the water in the return hose bouncing up and down. What do
you think? It might still overheat eventually, and with evaporation
would go dry eventually, but for a few hours, or even a day or two, I
think it would survive. I recently found a 304 which had been run 'dry'
(water change went below the intake) for 3 days. It was hot. I cleaned
it out (rotten egg smell), plugged it in and it was dead, but a few days
later when I went to service it, it was working fine. I guess it just
needed to cool down a bit.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Rick]

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> Rick wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > drill a small hole in the intake just below the water line, that way if
if
> > starts to leak out of the canister it can only leak to the level where
the
> > hole is at which time it will start sucking air and the siphon effect
will
> > stop.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
> Ah, I see! Not a bad idea, that. Presumably you're looking at replacing
> the filter if that happens though, due to impeller spinning in air/no
> cooling?
>
> --
>
>
> Velvet

I think if you were out of town or away from home for several days you would
likely find that the motor had burned out. There would still be water in the
canister which would likely keep the unit running o.k for some time however
I have no idea how long that might be. A lot cheaper to replace a motor unit
in the filter than having a lot of water running out onto the floor. In my
case my stand is one of those factory make pressed boards units sitting
ontop of carpet which is over hardwood floors. If I had not been home when
mine leaked I imagine my stand would be ruined, tank would be empty to the
intake level which is near the bottom which would have killed most of the
fish. My hardwood floors would have warped, in other words a total disaster.

Rick

[Alan Silver]

In message >, Rick
> writes
>For the difference in money I would buy a Filstar or Ehiem.

Having just had an Eheim Ecco fail after only a couple of months, I can
honestly say that I wouldn't use one of those again. Very poor design
and very fiddly to maintain. I had constant problems with it whilst it
worked (badly) and then the handle snapped during a restart.

Just my 2c, but I have very strong feelings against Eheim, or at least
against the Ecco.

--
Alan Silver
PSG Fish Tanks - http://fish.alansilver.co.uk/

[Sue]

>
> drill a small hole in the intake just below the water line, that way if if
> starts to leak out of the canister it can only leak to the level where the
> hole is at which time it will start sucking air and the siphon effect will
> stop.
>
Thanks,
I'd forgotten to do this on my latest filter.

I do mine about three inches below normal water level so I don't have to
re-prime after routine water changes but the tank won't empty too far.

( I do have ceramic floors though - waxed wood or carpet would make a
spillage a bigger issue ;o)