Copepods

[KurtG]

Another Newbie Question: Are copepods the tiny white barnacle looking
things that coat the rocks, etc? (That's what the guy that I bought the
tank from told me.)

Then I'm looking at this:

http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/

And, they appear to be a free floating insect like creatures.

Reason I ask is that my Mandarin Dragonnet isn't looking very good. (It
was also beaten up by a damsil). As far as I can tell, all the white
crustations on the rocks (which it was eating) are gone.

--Kurt

[[email protected]]

KurtG > wrote:

> Another Newbie Question: Are copepods the tiny white barnacle looking
> things that coat the rocks, etc? (That's what the guy that I bought the
> tank from told me.)

They could be, if they move.

> Then I'm looking at this:

> http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/

> And, they appear to be a free floating insect like creatures.

They walk on the rocks.

> Reason I ask is that my Mandarin Dragonnet isn't looking very good. (It
> was also beaten up by a damsil). As far as I can tell, all the white
> crustations on the rocks (which it was eating) are gone.

You need a refugium to keep them supplied.

Mike

[KurtG]

wrote:
> They could be, if they move.

Definitely not then. These are calcified to the rocks.

Hm, I wonder what other mis-information I accepted without questioning.
No wonder he wanted to sell his tank. I know he added a trigger to a
reef tank and ended up with limited live stock.

btw, I was able to get the mandarin to eat frozen brine shrimp. Poor
thing must be starved. It should hold him for a few days until the
copepods show up.

--Kurt

[RubenD]

I have had 2 mandarin dragon without a happy ending.
The first one I added too soon for pods to develop.
The second one also die even when there were what I think was a substancial
population of pods.
(Now I have pods running free at nightime on my tank. Somehow my other fish
doesn't seem to eat them).

That fish needs special care when it come to eating and usually finish
starving themselves. They are known to be very picky eaters, wanting only
live food, however, you can try pellets, put them on a container where
bigger fish can't eat it first.
(I read that either on Melev or Don Geddis website, he was able to feed his
dragon this way)

It worths a shot.

Sometimes, as we learn, mistakes are made, unfortunately at others
expense(fish). And everyone here have had some losses.

Good Luck.

Ruben


"KurtG" > wrote in message
...
>
> Another Newbie Question: Are copepods the tiny white barnacle looking
> things that coat the rocks, etc? (That's what the guy that I bought the
> tank from told me.)
>
> Then I'm looking at this:
>
> http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/
>
> And, they appear to be a free floating insect like creatures.
>
> Reason I ask is that my Mandarin Dragonnet isn't looking very good. (It
> was also beaten up by a damsil). As far as I can tell, all the white
> crustations on the rocks (which it was eating) are gone.
>
> --Kurt
>
>

[Inabón Yunes]

Copepods are in a subclass of its own. They vary in shapes and forms but
most of them are not easily seen with the bare eye.
There are also Amphipods and Isopods which occur in great numbers in
aquariums and are, in most of the cases, beneficial.
No, if it can be easily seen moving, there is a 99% chances they are not
copepods.
http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/crust/amphigal.html
http://www.tolweb.org/Isopoda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copepod
iy

"KurtG" > wrote in message
...
>
> Another Newbie Question: Are copepods the tiny white barnacle looking
> things that coat the rocks, etc? (That's what the guy that I bought the
> tank from told me.)
>
> Then I'm looking at this:
>
> http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/
>
> And, they appear to be a free floating insect like creatures.
>
> Reason I ask is that my Mandarin Dragonnet isn't looking very good. (It
> was also beaten up by a damsil). As far as I can tell, all the white
> crustations on the rocks (which it was eating) are gone.
>
> --Kurt
>
>

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:

> btw, I was able to get the mandarin to eat frozen brine shrimp. Poor
> thing must be starved. It should hold him for a few days until the
> copepods show up.

I ordered some from
http://www.inverts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CRA

$17.50 for a 4 oz. bottle, plus $15.00 shipping.

My situation is a bit different. I thought I had enough pods established, so I
ordered a Mandarin. My wife works near the store, so I sent her down to pick it
up when it came in. The store owner was on the phone, the kid bagging fish put
two in the bag, and Elisabeth didn't know any better. So I ordered some pods and
hope they'll co-exist ok. So far, one stays on the left end of the tank, and the
other one tends to roam. There are brief fireworks when he/she roams over to the
left end (which is to be expected). Neither one seems to be losing or gaining
weight.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[George Patterson]

Inabón Yunes wrote:
> Copepods are in a subclass of its own. They vary in shapes and forms but
> most of them are not easily seen with the bare eye.

Wilkepedia says they run 1 to 2 mm in size. That's easily visible with the bare
eye, but you *would* need a microscope to see all the little appendages and be
sure it's a copepod.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[Tristan]

Your gonna be surprised at how many pods a mandarinis capable of
eating in short order.

I have a mandarin in a 10 gal tank by itself. Yep thats not a typo
either and its been in there for over a year now and doing fine. Its
never been fed anything that I put into the tank like brine etc on a
routine basis. On occasion I may add some brine shrimp and I have seen
it pursue them, but its main diet has been copepods. Unfortunately
the majority of mandarins die within a short period of time from
starvation. I have thought about putting this guy in a larger tank for
some time now, but its doing just fine for over a year so why mess
with it.


On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 21:55:03 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

wrote:
<<>>> They could be, if they move.
<<>>
<<>>Definitely not then. These are calcified to the rocks.
<<>>
<<>>Hm, I wonder what other mis-information I accepted without questioning.
<<>> No wonder he wanted to sell his tank. I know he added a trigger to a
<<>>reef tank and ended up with limited live stock.
<<>>
<<>>btw, I was able to get the mandarin to eat frozen brine shrimp. Poor
<<>>thing must be starved. It should hold him for a few days until the
<<>>copepods show up.
<<>>
<<>>--Kurt



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[George Patterson]

Tristan wrote:
> Your gonna be surprised at how many pods a mandarinis capable of
> eating in short order.
>
> I have a mandarin in a 10 gal tank by itself. Yep thats not a typo
> either and its been in there for over a year now and doing fine. Its
> never been fed anything that I put into the tank like brine etc on a
> routine basis.

That's great news for me, if I understand you correctly. Your 10 gallon tank
maintains an adequate supply of copepods for one mandarin? Then my 125 gallon
with ~130 pounds of live rock should be capable of supporting two. Is there
anything special you're doing, other than having a bunch of live rock in there?

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[KurtG]

Tristan wrote:
> Unfortunately
> the majority of mandarins die within a short period of time from
> starvation.

Not on my watch. <g>

[Tristan]

No not really. I do have a fgood stand of calurpea and as much good
live rock as I could possibly put in that tank and very little room
for swimming, but then most mandarins rock hop and scoot around than
swim anyhow, so its not like the mandarin is hurting for swimmning
space it never uses anyhow. I find mandarins some of the neasted
colored fish out there and they are dirt cheap in this reigon $10 to
15 bucks at most. Too bad they have such a strict type of diet. I also
have a AC 500 / 110 hob filter on the back which funtions to provide
current flow as well as provide a sort of fuge for "extra" pods as
well. I have live rock rubble and chaeto in the fuge.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:08:21 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>> Your gonna be surprised at how many pods a mandarinis capable of
<<>>> eating in short order.
<<>>>
<<>>> I have a mandarin in a 10 gal tank by itself. Yep thats not a typo
<<>>> either and its been in there for over a year now and doing fine. Its
<<>>> never been fed anything that I put into the tank like brine etc on a
<<>>> routine basis.
<<>>
<<>>That's great news for me, if I understand you correctly. Your 10 gallon tank
<<>>maintains an adequate supply of copepods for one mandarin? Then my 125 gallon
<<>>with ~130 pounds of live rock should be capable of supporting two. Is there
<<>>anything special you're doing, other than having a bunch of live rock in there?
<<>>
<<>>George Patterson
<<>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Bill Marsh]

HI George: Mybe you got lucky and got a male and a female. I have both the
male has a spike on his dorsal fin and the female doesn't She also has
lighter coloration on her head. They ge along great. Bill
"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:XSnhh.2156$Jb6.925@trnddc03...
> KurtG wrote:
>
>> btw, I was able to get the mandarin to eat frozen brine shrimp. Poor
>> thing must be starved. It should hold him for a few days until the
>> copepods show up.
>
> I ordered some from
> http://www.inverts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CRA
>
> $17.50 for a 4 oz. bottle, plus $15.00 shipping.
>
> My situation is a bit different. I thought I had enough pods established,
> so I ordered a Mandarin. My wife works near the store, so I sent her down
> to pick it up when it came in. The store owner was on the phone, the kid
> bagging fish put two in the bag, and Elisabeth didn't know any better. So
> I ordered some pods and hope they'll co-exist ok. So far, one stays on the
> left end of the tank, and the other one tends to roam. There are brief
> fireworks when he/she roams over to the left end (which is to be
> expected). Neither one seems to be losing or gaining weight.
>
> George Patterson
> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[StringerBell]

Hey George,
I checked this site. A couple of questions:

About how many copepods do you think you got with the 4 oz. bottle?

Did you add the whole bottle to the tank to promote a population? or are you
adding some everyday to feed your "couple"?

Do you refrigerate the bottle? or are you using it for some kind of culture?

I am dying for a Mandarin. I have Thousands of pods in my tank---but I hear
they can be depleted quickly. I also have a bit of an alga and plant
overgrowth---but now I`m thinking if I keep the tank just a little "dirty"
than the pods have plenty of places to propogate.

BTW---the tank is really cranking. Thanks again!
Stringer



> I ordered some from
> http://www.inverts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CRA
>
> $17.50 for a 4 oz. bottle, plus $15.00 shipping.
>
> My situation is a bit different. I thought I had enough pods established,
> so I ordered a Mandarin. My wife works near the store, so I sent her down
> to pick it up when it came in. The store owner was on the phone, the kid
> bagging fish put two in the bag, and Elisabeth didn't know any better. So
> I ordered some pods and hope they'll co-exist ok. So far, one stays on the
> left end of the tank, and the other one tends to roam. There are brief
> fireworks when he/she roams over to the left end (which is to be
> expected). Neither one seems to be losing or gaining weight.
>
> George Patterson
> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[Tidepool Geek]

KurtG wrote:
> wrote:
> > They could be, if they move.
>
> Definitely not then. These are calcified to the rocks.
>

Hi Kurt,

It's impossible to say for certain without a good photo but your
description sounds like Spirorbis spp.

Spirorbis is a sedentary polychaete that builds a tightly coiled
calcium carbonate tube. They are known to occasionally 'bloom' in
aquaria, presumably in response to food availability. I believe they
generally disappear just as quickly (and mysteriously) as they appear.
They are filter feeders and present no threat to your tank. OTOH: It's
possible that their appearance could be a secondary symptom of
excessive nutrients in your water (the primary being the appearance of
whatever phytoplankton or bacteria they eat).

You can see quite a lot of detail at about 20X magnification but an
ordinary magnifying glass ought to enable you to identify them to
genus. Here's a picture for comparison:
http://www.biopix.dk/Photo.asp?Language=la&PhotoId=18604


Vermicularly yours,

Alex

[George Patterson]

Bill Marsh wrote:

> HI George: Mybe you got lucky and got a male and a female. I have both the
> male has a spike on his dorsal fin and the female doesn't She also has
> lighter coloration on her head.

No such luck. I ran into a web site today with the same info you just gave. Both
of mine are male.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[George Patterson]

StringerBell wrote:

> About how many copepods do you think you got with the 4 oz. bottle?

Dunno yet - I placed the order a couple days ago. I expect delivery Wednesday.

> Did you add the whole bottle to the tank to promote a population? or are you
> adding some everyday to feed your "couple"?

I intend to dump the bottle in the tank. I can't imagine that the pods will stay
alive more than a few days in that bottle with no food.

> I am dying for a Mandarin. I have Thousands of pods in my tank---but I hear
> they can be depleted quickly. I also have a bit of an alga and plant
> overgrowth---but now I`m thinking if I keep the tank just a little "dirty"
> than the pods have plenty of places to propogate.

I've read that one should wait at least 8 months before adding a Mandarin, but
I'd bet that something like this bottle of pods can establish a population
earlier than that. I also read that a small pile of live rock debris (small
pieces) can give copepods a refuge. The article stated that one can stick a
piece of shrimp or something in the pile every week or so to feed them.

BTW - if you're seeing lots of pods, they're probably isopods, not copepods. A
big copepod isn't even as long as a pencil lead is wide (1 to 2 mm). I've read
that they like to eat diatoms, which are pinpoint size white critters that tend
to form a haze on the inside walls of a tank. I have tons of those, and there's
other stuff swimming in the tank that's the right size to be copepods. Who knows
what's in the sand.

Both my Mandarins are picking at the rock, sand, and algae, and they aren't
visibly losing weight, so I have my hopes up.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[StringerBell]

What I am seeing are a multitude of tiny "commas" swimming freely in the
water---those are probably the wrong type, right?. There are many other tiny
organisms too. Sometimes when I shine a flashlight at night I see little
meaty things spinning like whirling dervishes around the tank Little white
spirals on the glass. But mostly I see tons and tons of those little
"commas".

[KurtG]

Tidepool Geek wrote:
> Spirorbis is a sedentary polychaete that builds a tightly coiled
> calcium carbonate tube.

Good guess, but no. They really look like very small barnacles. My
mandarin had a great time eating them, and putting up a dust cloud in
it's wake. I don't see any right now, but all my rocks are still coated
with tiny white circles where they once were.

--Kurt

[Inabón Yunes]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:6Ynhh.2172$Jb6.1190@trnddc03...
> Inabón Yunes wrote:
>> Copepods are in a subclass of its own. They vary in shapes and forms but
>> most of them are not easily seen with the bare eye.
>
> Wilkepedia says they run 1 to 2 mm in size. That's easily visible with the
> bare eye, but you *would* need a microscope to see all the little
> appendages and be sure it's a copepod.
>
> George Patterson
> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
Yes, you can see something 2mm long with the bare eyes but to tell what is
it? well, you need more detail, even a food flake moving with the current
is that big
iy

[KurtG]

My pods arrived. Wow! They are small.

--Kurt




KurtG wrote:
>
> Another Newbie Question: Are copepods the tiny white barnacle looking
> things that coat the rocks, etc? (That's what the guy that I bought the
> tank from told me.)
>
> Then I'm looking at this:
>
> http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/
>
> And, they appear to be a free floating insect like creatures.
>
> Reason I ask is that my Mandarin Dragonnet isn't looking very good. (It
> was also beaten up by a damsil). As far as I can tell, all the white
> crustations on the rocks (which it was eating) are gone.
>
> --Kurt
>
>

[Add Homonym]

KurtG wrote:
>
> Another Newbie Question: Are copepods the tiny white barnacle looking
> things that coat the rocks, etc? (That's what the guy that I bought the
> tank from told me.)
>
> Then I'm looking at this:
>
> http://www.reed-mariculture.com/copepod/
>
> And, they appear to be a free floating insect like creatures.
>
> Reason I ask is that my Mandarin Dragonnet isn't looking very good. (It
> was also beaten up by a damsil). As far as I can tell, all the white
> crustations on the rocks (which it was eating) are gone.
>
> --Kurt
>
>

Yes, they are tiny free floating insect like creatures. Not sure what
the barnacle like things you are refering to are...

You can by live copapods online to feed your mandaring. Just google for
"live copapods". Or your LFS may sell them. The more common brand is
known as "tigerpods"

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:
>
> My pods arrived. Wow! They are small.

Yeah. Mine just arrived. You can't even tell if there's anything in there
besides water. Hummmmm. Wonder if ........

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[KurtG]

George Patterson wrote:
> KurtG wrote:
>>
>> My pods arrived. Wow! They are small.
>
> Yeah. Mine just arrived. You can't even tell if there's anything in
> there besides water. Hummmmm. Wonder if ........

I can't say the bottle was teaming with pods, but then it was a fug
starter package. I wonder how long the hatch cycle is.

I need to get into the pod & live sand business. Maybe I'll get my kids
to do it. Nobody would notice them scooping sand in colorful plastic
buckets, and the fedex truck lugging them away. White gold!

--Kurt