Beach vrs. Tank sand test

[KurtG]

I ran a test with the fresh beach sand (dug out of the surf) and my tank
sand. I setup two small containers and added shrimp meat to both and
put them aside for 24 hrs.

The beach shrimp had a thick clear gel mucus on the shrimp and it reeked
bad! My tank sand barely had any growth (if any) and not much odor.

So, is this a reasonable test? If so, do I have "dead" sand?

Reason being that nitrates are not getting processed very quickly out of
my tank, and I'm trying to figure out why. My aquaculture neighbor is
encouraging me to put some beach sand in the tank to get the nitrate
eating bacteria growing. I've been letting the sand "stand" in a bucket
for a few days to see how the "test damsil" does (still with us).

--Kurt

[Tristan]

I'm in agreement with yur neighbor. If you have access to it get it
and use it. Its all I use along with locally collected salt water. I
do not go to any extremes to get the sand either, but I like to get a
fair mix of finely broken up shells and sand such as that which
collects between sand bars or in depressions., I guess yu could say
the sand grains I like are between .05mm and 2 or 3 mm in
size...sometimes yo ueven find extrememy tiny clams and cockels in
it, All of it does fine.

I have a tank currently in operation with a piece of locally collected
liverock in it, that I got probbaly 25 years or so ago while diving
off Navarre Beach (P'cola area) in about 125 feet of water. I bleached
it snow white, and even soaked it in formaldehyde, to kill off the
smell. I wanted it for display with a massive shell collection and I w
asnot all that keep on keepin gmarine faish back then. It eventually
wa placed in a fresh water tank for a numbe rof years and then wound
up outside in the garden. I then got abrain storm to sterilize it
and use it. So I dosed it in PP 2 times, rinsed well then set abaout
curing it, It took weeks to finally get cured..........but what I had
in the end wa a rock comprised of quartz bits and peices and full of
tiny holes, quite porus though but heavy as hell. I broke it up an it
was loaded with allkind sof embedded shells and snails etc, so thats
why it took forever to cure. Its now fully coated in coraline and
looks fantastic in a 30 gal cube. Its the primary rock in that tank
along with a few small pieces of FIJI to seed coraline. The sand is
predominately Gulf of Mexico sand gathered between sandbars off the
beach, water is strictly GofM locally collected. I did add about 2
cups of aragonite sand as I had a pico tank I wanted to take down so I
just added that aragonite sand to the GofM silica based sand....I have
never really had any issues with nitrates or anay algaes for that
matter. I leave my daylight type lights on for no more than 10 hours,
but do utilize actinics quite heavility befrope and after daylights
follwed by night time with lunar lights of 460/470nm.


So listen to yur neighbor and carry yur butt down to the beach wade
between the sand bars if there is any and get yu some good sand.

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:09:44 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>
<<>>I ran a test with the fresh beach sand (dug out of the surf) and my tank
<<>>sand. I setup two small containers and added shrimp meat to both and
<<>>put them aside for 24 hrs.
<<>>
<<>>The beach shrimp had a thick clear gel mucus on the shrimp and it reeked
<<>>bad! My tank sand barely had any growth (if any) and not much odor.
<<>>
<<>>So, is this a reasonable test? If so, do I have "dead" sand?
<<>>
<<>>Reason being that nitrates are not getting processed very quickly out of
<<>>my tank, and I'm trying to figure out why. My aquaculture neighbor is
<<>>encouraging me to put some beach sand in the tank to get the nitrate
<<>>eating bacteria growing. I've been letting the sand "stand" in a bucket
<<>>for a few days to see how the "test damsil" does (still with us).
<<>>
<<>>--Kurt
<<>>
<<>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Kelsey Cummings]

So, what about using beach sand from an area not typically associated
with tropics or reefs like the North coast of California? Might this
still be considered beneficial?

-K

[Tristan]

Well its possible. The way I see it is, its not tropical, so therfore
what is in it may not survive in a tropical setup. then again it may.
But no matter what any sand is easy to seed with live sand. So you can
really use a bag of playsand that costs $3.50 from the big box builder
supply store and a cup or two of live sand from LFS or a freinds
established tank, or add some live rock and in short order it will be
just as functional as any live sand you buy or harvest from tropical
regions would be. Sand is just a habitat for burrowing critters and
bacteria.

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:35:57 -0800, Kelsey Cummings
> wrote:

<<>>So, what about using beach sand from an area not typically associated
<<>>with tropics or reefs like the North coast of California? Might this
<<>>still be considered beneficial?
<<>>
<<>>-K



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[KurtG]

Tristan wrote:
> So you can
> really use a bag of playsand that costs $3.50 from the big box builder
> supply store and a cup or two of live sand from LFS or a freinds
> established tank

I can see torches, brooms, and pitch forks waving. I thought play sand
is just pure silica and better would be crushed carbonate from shells or
coral. or, a mixture. I haven't cracked my chemistry book in a long
time, but I think it may help maintain higher PH.

Although, I'm all for getting around the $60 for 20# of live sand. It
just seems wrong. I would think that beach sand w/ crushed shells from
any source would work just fine.

--Kurt

[Tristan]

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:17:01 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>> So you can
<<>>> really use a bag of playsand that costs $3.50 from the big box builder
<<>>> supply store and a cup or two of live sand from LFS or a freinds
<<>>> established tank
<<>>
<<>>I can see torches, brooms, and pitch forks waving. I thought play sand
<<>>is just pure silica and better would be crushed carbonate from shells or
<<>>coral. or, a mixture. I haven't cracked my chemistry book in a long
<<>>time, but I think it may help maintain higher PH.

That is true however a lot of foks say silica sand will work just fine
if yu have live rock which also helps stabilize a tanks PH. You never
said what part of Florida your in, but unless your in the keys, odds
are the sand is silica based sand, since there is not any reefs to
amunt to much to create any aragonite sand. Eventhe sands on the
atlantic coast is not aragonte. I personally do not rely on my sand
to save my backside if a tank happens to crash.....and I have never
had a problem which could have been saved by aragonite sand over
silica or had a problem which was created by the sand I use. OPf
course an LFS will argue as they do not want to hear that silica sand
will work just fine and it can be had dirt cheap.
<<>>
<<>>Although, I'm all for getting around the $60 for 20# of live sand. It
<<>>just seems wrong. I would think that beach sand w/ crushed shells from
<<>>any source would work just fine.

Yur so right, go get some sand and like I stated, the best mix of
grainsizes is usually what accumulates inbetween sandbars or on the
backside of say a jetty rock etc. Most other places its more uniform
ingrainsize, and heavier grains drop out long before the lighter do.
Silica grains are heavier than aragonite grains of comparable size.
Thats why they accumulate in washes or low areas between sandbars. Its
like mining forgold with a pan as to how the grains fall and separate
out with water / wave movement.
<<>>
<<>>--Kurt



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[KurtG]

Tristan wrote:
> You never
> said what part of Florida your in,

NW of Jacksonville on Amelia Island.

Lots of small 1/8" shell rubble on the beach along with silica sand.

Agreed. I thought the PH angle w/ Ca carbonate was a little weak. The
PH would have to drop a lot before any buffering took place.

--Kurt

[Tristan]

Atlantic coaster then.........ah thats ok, not everyone can live n the
Gulf of Mexico ;-) YOiu should have good water and sand that can be
collected in that region.


On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:05:40 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>> You never
<<>>> said what part of Florida your in,
<<>>
<<>>NW of Jacksonville on Amelia Island.
<<>>
<<>>Lots of small 1/8" shell rubble on the beach along with silica sand.
<<>>
<<>>Agreed. I thought the PH angle w/ Ca carbonate was a little weak. The
<<>>PH would have to drop a lot before any buffering took place.
<<>>
<<>>--Kurt



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[KurtG]

Tristan wrote:
>
> Atlantic coaster then.........ah thats ok, not everyone can live n the
> Gulf of Mexico ;-) YOiu should have good water and sand that can be
> collected in that region.

Good wind for sailing, real estate was cheap when I moved here, and the
hurricanes always seem to go around us (touch wood).

[Guayni SAHS]

I have a question! (read within your post)

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> Well its possible. The way I see it is, its not tropical, so therfore
> what is in it may not survive in a tropical setup. then again it may.
> But no matter what any sand is easy to seed with live sand. So you can
> really use a bag of playsand that costs $3.50 from the big box builder
> supply store and a cup or two of live sand from LFS or a freinds
> established tank, or add some live rock and in short order it will be
> just as functional as any live sand you buy or harvest from tropical
> regions would be.
******* (you wrote and I quote)
"Sand is just a habitat for burrowing critters and bacteria."
*******
Question is; How long have you been an aquarist?


>
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:35:57 -0800, Kelsey Cummings
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>So, what about using beach sand from an area not typically associated
> <<>>with tropics or reefs like the North coast of California? Might this
> <<>>still be considered beneficial?
> <<>>
> <<>>-K
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

Go ahead dude come on were all waiting with batied breath for your
opinioon on snd beds and more than likely it will lead into your
system with never needing a water change and yada yada yada yada.....

I said it bewfore adn I'll say it again at least in regards to a sand
bed like wa being discussed.from predominately silkica based sad,
other than aesthetics, it does nothing to balance a tanks PH like a
aragopnite bed may if there wa a drop in ph, so for the most partt its
simply a place for critters to inhabit.....from burrowoing types to
little micro scopic.......so

Go for it yur turn!
HOw long I have been an aquarist is not any concern of yurs, lets get
to the sand bed statement shall we?

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:59:09 -0500, "Guayni; SAHS"
> wrote:

<<>>I have a question! (read within your post)
<<>>
<<>>"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
<<>>> Well its possible. The way I see it is, its not tropical, so therfore
<<>>> what is in it may not survive in a tropical setup. then again it may.
<<>>> But no matter what any sand is easy to seed with live sand. So you can
<<>>> really use a bag of playsand that costs $3.50 from the big box builder
<<>>> supply store and a cup or two of live sand from LFS or a freinds
<<>>> established tank, or add some live rock and in short order it will be
<<>>> just as functional as any live sand you buy or harvest from tropical
<<>>> regions would be.
<<>>******* (you wrote and I quote)
<<>>"Sand is just a habitat for burrowing critters and bacteria."
<<>>*******
<<>>Question is; How long have you been an aquarist?
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>>
<<>>> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:35:57 -0800, Kelsey Cummings
<<>>> > wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> <<>>So, what about using beach sand from an area not typically associated
<<>>> <<>>with tropics or reefs like the North coast of California? Might this
<<>>> <<>>still be considered beneficial?
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>-K
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>



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I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!