Pump for 20 ft lift

[KurtG]

I'm thinking of moving my whole sump to my first floor that has a great
window w/ natural sunlight for a refugium.

I think it's about a 16ft rise back to my tank (20' for margin of
error), so would a regular oversized submersible pump work? I'd expect
lower water throughput then it's rated, but then that's why it's oversized.

If not, where would I find a suitable pump?

--Kurt

[Tristan]

Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals. IIRC it has a
head pressure that will work in that height. AZPONDS.com is one and
probably the cheapes tplace to buy one at. I think the larger Danner
Mag drives will also work ok in sal****er and also provides
sufficieint head push.
External pumps
http://www.azponds.com/new%20sequence.htm
Submersible Pumps
http://www.azponds.com/subpumps.htm

Pondmaster Pro Hy-Drive pump are high head others are not.
On Sequence pumps all can be used in sal****er and a salt water seal
can be installed.

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:27:14 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>
<<>>I'm thinking of moving my whole sump to my first floor that has a great
<<>>window w/ natural sunlight for a refugium.
<<>>
<<>>I think it's about a 16ft rise back to my tank (20' for margin of
<<>>error), so would a regular oversized submersible pump work? I'd expect
<<>>lower water throughput then it's rated, but then that's why it's oversized.
<<>>
<<>>If not, where would I find a suitable pump?
<<>>
<<>>--Kurt



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[KurtG]

Tristan wrote:
>
> Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals.


Thanks. You put me on the right track.

[Tristan]

Sequence pumps are external, and all can be retro fit with seals for
sal****er use. I just got a load of used but like new pumps of which
most were Sequence. These were all submerged in water after a storm
here and folks had their pump houses or vaults flooded, as well as
some that were merely exposed to lots ofrain. Ignorant homeowners that
di dnot know any better all claled local rip off pond and water garden
place here to come fix their outside koi and golkd fish ponds. Well
companies are not gonna repair anyhting so they just instalalednew
pumps and carried the others back to the shop and threw them in a pile
outside, and I got them all. LAst count was 11 Sequence pumps and a
bumch of other brands of pumps as well. I took em all apart, blew out
any water, cleaned off any rust onthe inside of the stator windings,
and allowed to air dry. I chjecked the bearings and if there wsa water
in them I replaced them, Bearings are dirt cheap, so now I have 11
Sequence pumps from the 750 up to the self primers all runing nice and
quiet as a churchmouse and do not have $50 in repairing them all and
they all work just fine and have been operartionally checked and run,
pumping water for at least a 24 hour period. I had to replace a
capacitor on one but happened to have a few of that size capacitor
anyhow. I also had a lot of the bearings I needed as well. Now I
intend to separate all the burial vaults I have ganged together with
flow thorugh filtration that I use to raise up godfish, koi and
catfish as well as some other tropical fish like cichlids in so that I
cancontrol each tank with a pump and filter individually. Life is
good when you dumpster dive! ;-) Oh I also found a bunch of other old
new unused stock like filter housings and media and weirs and water
fall forms that they threw out. Yea I know its all freshwater stuff
but it just goes to show how good Sequence pumps are and how reliable
and easy to repair them. I have 5 Sequence pumps that I have in
operation previously before this find that I bought new that has been
in use for close to 5 or more years and have never leaked a drop or
missed a beat, and run 24/7/365

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:35:15 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals.
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>Thanks. You put me on the right track.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[George]

"KurtG" > wrote in message
...
> Tristan wrote:
>>
>> Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals.
>
>
> Thanks. You put me on the right track.

If these are large submersibles, you should be aware that they can heat up
significantly at such high head loads. This could cause problems with
maintaining a proper tank temperature. Just something to consider.

George

[Pszemol]

"George" > wrote in message ...
> "KurtG" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Tristan wrote:
>>>
>>> Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals.
>>
>>
>> Thanks. You put me on the right track.
>
> If these are large submersibles, you should be aware that they can heat up
> significantly at such high head loads. This could cause problems with
> maintaining a proper tank temperature. Just something to consider.

Is there any relationship between the head pressure you use
the pump with and the amount of electricity it uses up ?

If so, I would guess the relationship would be that more head
pressure would cause LESS power consumption for the same pump.

I remember that this thing with submersible water pumps and power
consumption was going against the, so called, "common sense" ;-)

[TheRock]

You can get Flow-vs-Head height from the pump manufacturer of the pump.
20' you'll be paying out the ass for a pump.

Here is a better idea for lighting. This is what I use and it works GREAT
!!!
http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html

Chris


"KurtG" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm thinking of moving my whole sump to my first floor that has a great
> window w/ natural sunlight for a refugium.
>
> I think it's about a 16ft rise back to my tank (20' for margin of error),
> so would a regular oversized submersible pump work? I'd expect lower
> water throughput then it's rated, but then that's why it's oversized.
>
> If not, where would I find a suitable pump?
>
> --Kurt

[George]

"Pszemol" > wrote in message
...
> "George" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "KurtG" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Tristan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. You put me on the right track.
>>
>> If these are large submersibles, you should be aware that they can heat
>> up significantly at such high head loads. This could cause problems
>> with maintaining a proper tank temperature. Just something to consider.
>
> Is there any relationship between the head pressure you use
> the pump with and the amount of electricity it uses up ?
>
> If so, I would guess the relationship would be that more head
> pressure would cause LESS power consumption for the same pump.
>
> I remember that this thing with submersible water pumps and power
> consumption was going against the, so called, "common sense" ;-)

Most, if not all, submersibles rely on water flow for cooling. The more
head, the less flow, the less the pump is able to shed heat. So it heats
up internally (as well as the water it is sitting in) as the head
increases. Most pumps today can handle this heat (unless the pump is
deadheaded) to a point. Whether or not the critters in the aquarium can is
another matter altogether.

George

[KurtG]

George wrote:
>>> If these are large submersibles, you should be aware that they can heat
>>> up significantly at such high head loads. This could cause problems
>>> with maintaining a proper tank temperature.

Good point. I think one of these two will work. I'm leaning towards
the smaller one.

http://tinyurl.com/ygagh8
http://tinyurl.com/ycx8fw

They are both external, so air cooled.

--Kurt

[KurtG]

TheRock wrote:
> You can get Flow-vs-Head height from the pump manufacturer of the pump.
> 20' you'll be paying out the ass for a pump.

$180. I have limited room in my living area on 2nd floor, but plenty of
space on my 1st.

Thanks for the idea. 19W would be more efficient then a 200 W pump. I
need the visit the local livestock store to see about a large tub.

--Kurt

[Add Homonym]

KurtG wrote:
> Tristan wrote:
>
>>
>> Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals.
>
>
>
> Thanks. You put me on the right track.

My recommendation would be an Iwaki MD55RLT - will handle a 26' head.

Not cheap, tho. Somewhere in the $275 neighborhood.

[Add Homonym]

George wrote:
> "KurtG" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Tristan wrote:
>>
>>>Checkouty a sequence 1000 pump with sal****er seals.
>>
>>
>>Thanks. You put me on the right track.
>
>
> If these are large submersibles, you should be aware that they can heat up
> significantly at such high head loads. This could cause problems with
> maintaining a proper tank temperature. Just something to consider.
>
> George
>
>
These are external.

[Tristan]

The little Giant pump really leaves a lot to be desired especially
how they get their head height. They reduce pipe size to a diameter
half of what the intake is, so they are increasing pressure but at the
same time decreasing volume so by speedingupo with a pressure increase
the water flow thewy are able to push a smaller volume of water
higher.....this amounts to pushing a pump continually on its max
limits. I do not know about LG pumps in sal****er but they have a
terrible reputation with ponders in general as to being problematic
and energy consumers a compared to other pumps.

Another hting is the Dolphin pump uses Emerson motors......which are a
bottom line of economy motors, not nortoriously noted for longevity in
lots of applications. The Sequence line of pumps use Baldor motors on
their better pumps which is pretty well a well accepted industry
standard and known for longevity. Sequence does use othe rbrands
ontheir lower line of pumps Value line or Value flo or something like
that, and if you compare specs you will see those pumps are also
going to consume a lot more watts overall to attain the same
performance as a Baldor powered pump does. Its allin the efficieincy
of the motors......Personally I would wait and save up a bit more
money if I was short and buy a top line pump with better energy
consumptions figures and performance, as iat wil save $$ in the long
run.

I have a heap of Sequences in use around my ponds here and they are
trouble free.....
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:26:28 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>George wrote:
<<>>>>> If these are large submersibles, you should be aware that they can heat
<<>>>>> up significantly at such high head loads. This could cause problems
<<>>>>> with maintaining a proper tank temperature.
<<>>
<<>>Good point. I think one of these two will work. I'm leaning towards
<<>>the smaller one.
<<>>
<<>>http://tinyurl.com/ygagh8
<<>>http://tinyurl.com/ycx8fw
<<>>
<<>>They are both external, so air cooled.
<<>>
<<>>--Kurt



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[KurtG]

Tristan wrote:
> The little Giant pump really leaves a lot to be desired

What about this one?


Iwaki MD55RLT
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1153

[KurtG]

KurtG wrote:
> Tristan wrote:
>> The little Giant pump really leaves a lot to be desired
>
> What about this one?
>
>
> Iwaki MD55RLT
> http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1153

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1173

I may kick it up a notch. This one had a better performance profile. I
know it will work and I can add a second display tank on my 2nd floor.

--Kurt

[TheRock]

Coralife Turbo Sea High Pressure Pump
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18557/si1379078/cl0/coralifeturboseahighpressurepump1100p
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18557/si1379079/cl0/coralifeturboseahighpressurepump1740p


"KurtG" > wrote in message
...
> KurtG wrote:
>> Tristan wrote:
>>> The little Giant pump really leaves a lot to be desired
>>
>> What about this one?
>>
>>
>> Iwaki MD55RLT
>> http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1153
>
> http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=IK1173
>
> I may kick it up a notch. This one had a better performance profile. I
> know it will work and I can add a second display tank on my 2nd floor.
>
> --Kurt

[KurtG]

TheRock wrote:
> Here is a better idea for lighting. This is what I use and it works GREAT
> !!!
> http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html

I did order some of these. My fug is currently a rubber maid container
that is on the same level as my sump. Seems like I have some other
priorities (parasites, reverse osmosis, lights, etc.) so I'm delaying
the fug/pump idea for now. Although I did find a 150 gallon ($139)
trough that would be perfect.....

--Kurt