Beginner advice

[Russ Arcuri]

Hi all,

I've been lurking around the various rec.aquaria newsgroups for a while,
read the FAQs, etc. I'm looking for a little advice.

I have a small (~1 gallon) tank that I'd like to put 1-3 fish into. I
went to two LFSs today and got conflicting advice on how to set up the
tank.

LFS 1 says the UGF included with the 1 gallon tank is terrible and
shouldn't be used -- all it consists of is a plastic grate, a single
hard plastic vertical tube, and an airstone driven by an external air
pump, which goes into the vertical tube. He says this is a recipe for
disaster. His advice is to use the included air pump to drive a Penn
Plax Smallworld filter, and not to bother messing with the plastic grate
or vertical tube -- "leave them right out of the tank." He recommended
1 betta or 3-4 small neon tetras in the tank. He also suggested I put a
single small plant in there, and pointed out something that looked like
it had tiny bananas on it.

LFS 2 says the Penn Plax Smallworld is okay but almost unnecessary, as
long as I have a UGF, and that I'd be crazy to run the tank without the
UGF. He recommended some water treatments as well -- Amquel (which I
planned on using anyway to treat my tap water), some other additive I'm
not familiar with (I think he said "Stress Coat"), and semi-regular
restocking of the bacteria cultures he sells. He recommended 3 or 4
small guppies for the tank.

My questions:

1. Agree with LFS 1 or LFS 2?

2. No matter how it's filtered, it's going to be in a room that gets
direct sunlight in the evening. It will be in a corner out of the sun,
but it will probably be fairly bright in the room. Any suggestions for
controlling algae?

3. I've read it's a good idea to add a bit of non-iodized salt to the
tank water -- that this is beneficial to the fish. Any suggestions for
how much to add to a 1 gallon tank, and how often?

4. Would salt be a problem for any of the fish mentioned above?

Sincerely,
Russ

[NetMax]

"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking around the various rec.aquaria newsgroups for a
while,
> read the FAQs, etc. I'm looking for a little advice.
>
> I have a small (~1 gallon) tank that I'd like to put 1-3 fish into. I
> went to two LFSs today and got conflicting advice on how to set up the
> tank.
>
> LFS 1 says the UGF included with the 1 gallon tank is terrible and
> shouldn't be used -- all it consists of is a plastic grate, a single
> hard plastic vertical tube, and an airstone driven by an external air
> pump, which goes into the vertical tube. He says this is a recipe for
> disaster. His advice is to use the included air pump to drive a Penn
> Plax Smallworld filter, and not to bother messing with the plastic
grate
> or vertical tube -- "leave them right out of the tank." He recommended
> 1 betta or 3-4 small neon tetras in the tank. He also suggested I put
a
> single small plant in there, and pointed out something that looked like
> it had tiny bananas on it.
>
> LFS 2 says the Penn Plax Smallworld is okay but almost unnecessary, as
> long as I have a UGF, and that I'd be crazy to run the tank without the
> UGF. He recommended some water treatments as well -- Amquel (which I
> planned on using anyway to treat my tap water), some other additive I'm
> not familiar with (I think he said "Stress Coat"), and semi-regular
> restocking of the bacteria cultures he sells. He recommended 3 or 4
> small guppies for the tank.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1. Agree with LFS 1 or LFS 2?

What's a better car, Chevy or Ford? ;~) Even here you will have a
variety of opinions, as both the UGF and small internal filter has pros &
cons. Familiarize yourself with the filter's characteristics and you
will understand the reason for the different LFS's opinions, and then
decide yourself how applicable they are to you.

In a 1g tank (large fishbowl), I don't think it will make that much of a
difference. I'd probably go UGF for 2 reasons. First, it hides the
filter (and in a 1g, you don't have a lot of free space ;~) Second, any
UGF failings are generally not applicable in a fishbowl. You won't have
real plants (unless you have real lights, like fluorescent). You need to
gravel vacuum anyways and in a 1g, it's pretty easy to do. However, I
hope you realize that the smaller the tank, the more difficult it is to
manage. The smallest I will go and still have patience with is about 5g.

> 2. No matter how it's filtered, it's going to be in a room that gets
> direct sunlight in the evening. It will be in a corner out of the sun,
> but it will probably be fairly bright in the room. Any suggestions for
> controlling algae?

In such a micro-aquarium, everything will be more difficult to manage
(food pollution, ammonia, nitrites, temperature, lighting). Algae might
be the least of your trouble ;~), but you can always put a background
paper around the back & sides to minimize exposure.

> 3. I've read it's a good idea to add a bit of non-iodized salt to the
> tank water -- that this is beneficial to the fish. Any suggestions for
> how much to add to a 1 gallon tank, and how often?

For salt-tolerant fish, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons (you do the math).

> 4. Would salt be a problem for any of the fish mentioned above?

For Guppies, good, for Neons, not, for Betta, not really neccesary, and
in such a small tank, salt levels would be a bit more difficult to
maintain constant. A 1g is big enough for some shrimp, maybe a frog
(ADF). It's a bit small for a Betta, and much too small for 3 Neons or 3
or 4 Guppies imo. Sorry, I'm not good with small tanks, unless they are
plants only. My water change pail is 6g.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Sincerely,
> Russ

[D&M]

Hmm... I got one of these tiny tanks. It's not a pretty sight if you decide
to use it. Fish won't survive long in it.

The UGF idea they build into these things is cute, but again, we're only
talking 1g of water. I personally got it for fry, don't even use the UGF
part.

I'd suppose it's fine for a betta or couple neon tetras or even a couple
head/tail tetras, something small that eats very little and produces little
waste. I'm not really a guppy person, so no idea on the waste they produce.

The photo on the box of mine showed a goldfish... oh my what a mess that
would be.

Something you have to consider is the cleaning. Not exactly easy cleaning a
1g as one would think. have to work quickly especially if you don't have any
other tanks around to steal replacement water from. A 1g tank can have very
nasty pH, temperature, and other fast acting adverse effects on it's
inhabitants. Think of doing a waterchane in a 1g the same as bringing a fish
home from the LFS and pouring it straight in the tank, no floating the bag,
etc. Have to be more cautious.

I've had friends of mine as about these small starter tanks, I'll tell you
the same as I tell them. If you MUST have a small tank, for the fish and
yourself, get at least a 5g, and stricty follow the 1"/g rule. Larger tanks
are more forgiving with overfeeding and overloading, but smaller tanks have
no tolerance. 5g will give you a bit more leeway that a 1g, bit more
forgiving.


"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking around the various rec.aquaria newsgroups for a while,
> read the FAQs, etc. I'm looking for a little advice.
>
> I have a small (~1 gallon) tank that I'd like to put 1-3 fish into. I
> went to two LFSs today and got conflicting advice on how to set up the
> tank.
>
> LFS 1 says the UGF included with the 1 gallon tank is terrible and
> shouldn't be used -- all it consists of is a plastic grate, a single
> hard plastic vertical tube, and an airstone driven by an external air
> pump, which goes into the vertical tube. He says this is a recipe for
> disaster. His advice is to use the included air pump to drive a Penn
> Plax Smallworld filter, and not to bother messing with the plastic grate
> or vertical tube -- "leave them right out of the tank." He recommended
> 1 betta or 3-4 small neon tetras in the tank. He also suggested I put a
> single small plant in there, and pointed out something that looked like
> it had tiny bananas on it.
>
> LFS 2 says the Penn Plax Smallworld is okay but almost unnecessary, as
> long as I have a UGF, and that I'd be crazy to run the tank without the
> UGF. He recommended some water treatments as well -- Amquel (which I
> planned on using anyway to treat my tap water), some other additive I'm
> not familiar with (I think he said "Stress Coat"), and semi-regular
> restocking of the bacteria cultures he sells. He recommended 3 or 4
> small guppies for the tank.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1. Agree with LFS 1 or LFS 2?
>
> 2. No matter how it's filtered, it's going to be in a room that gets
> direct sunlight in the evening. It will be in a corner out of the sun,
> but it will probably be fairly bright in the room. Any suggestions for
> controlling algae?
>
> 3. I've read it's a good idea to add a bit of non-iodized salt to the
> tank water -- that this is beneficial to the fish. Any suggestions for
> how much to add to a 1 gallon tank, and how often?
>
> 4. Would salt be a problem for any of the fish mentioned above?
>
> Sincerely,
> Russ

[Dinky]

<interspersed>

"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message
...
| Hi all,
|
| I've been lurking around the various rec.aquaria newsgroups for a
while,
| read the FAQs, etc. I'm looking for a little advice.
|

Good deal. I wish I had read more before I jumped in the first time.


| I have a small (~1 gallon) tank that I'd like to put 1-3 fish into.
I
| went to two LFSs today and got conflicting advice on how to set up
the
| tank.

Not surprising. Sounds pretty normal. Different people give different
advice:)


|
| LFS 1 says the UGF included with the 1 gallon tank is terrible and
| shouldn't be used --

UGF's were the standard for many years, and properly taken care of,
can work quite well.


.. He says this is a recipe for
| disaster.

Bullsh*t.

His advice is to use the included air pump to drive a Penn
| Plax Smallworld filter, and not to bother messing with the plastic
grate
| or vertical tube -- "leave them right out of the tank."

Sounds like he's eaither just passing on something he heard, or is
trying to sell you more equipment. My suggestion would be: there are
several very small "power filters" on the market that would work in
that tiny tank. See: "Azoo Palm Filter" A power filter is superior in
most ways to a UGF, but that is not to say a UGF doesn't work.



He recommended
| 1 betta or 3-4 small neon tetras in the tank. He also suggested I
put a
| single small plant in there, and pointed out something that looked
like
| it had tiny bananas on it.

There are many options for fish. in a one gallon tank, even the betta
would require frequent large water changes. One gallon is a tiny
amount of water, and may prove difficult to maintain, though many
people do it with success. Live plants process nitrates, making a
healthier tank. That suggestion I agree with highly, though I'd
suggest a fast grower, like hornwort or anacharis.


|
| LFS 2 says the Penn Plax Smallworld is okay but almost unnecessary,
as
| long as I have a UGF, and that I'd be crazy to run the tank without
the
| UGF.

See previous comments. Sounds like you should take about half of each
LFS's advice <g>.


He recommended some water treatments as well -- Amquel (which I
| planned on using anyway to treat my tap water), some other additive
I'm
| not familiar with (I think he said "Stress Coat"), and semi-regular
| restocking of the bacteria cultures he sells. He recommended 3 or
4
| small guppies for the tank.

Amquel Plus is a good product, one of the few chemicals I allow near
my tanks. I have never used the commercial bacterial cultures, and
the "restocking" advice is plain idiotic. Once your bacterial colony
is established, the only reason you'd need to "restock" it is if you
killed it off yourself due to improper maintenance practices. Even
then, the bacteria exist all over the planet, and can be cutvated
easily without the use of the commercial products, though some
aquarists claim great success starting new tanks with them.



|
| My questions:
|
| 1. Agree with LFS 1 or LFS 2?

Little of both. Or neither. Yeah, neither.

|
| 2. No matter how it's filtered, it's going to be in a room that
gets
| direct sunlight in the evening. It will be in a corner out of the
sun,
| but it will probably be fairly bright in the room. Any suggestions
for
| controlling algae?

The plant LFS 1 suggested will help with this. The plant, being a
higher life form than algae, will outcompete the algae for nutrients.


|
| 3. I've read it's a good idea to add a bit of non-iodized salt to
the
| tank water -- that this is beneficial to the fish. Any suggestions
for
| how much to add to a 1 gallon tank, and how often?

Depends on the fish. Some fish are very intolerant to salt, some
don't care, and some benefit from it. Research the fish you choose.


|
| 4. Would salt be a problem for any of the fish mentioned above?

IIRC, neons don't like salt. I may be wrong, and am too lazy to go
look it up. <g>

|
| Sincerely,
| Russ

[D&M]

> I'd suppose it's fine for a betta or couple neon tetras or even a couple
> head/tail tetras, something small that eats very little and produces
little
> waste. I'm not really a guppy person, so no idea on the waste they
produce.

Forgot, most 1g tanks aren't heated.... scratch the neons etc., off the
list. They're a lil picky.

[Russ Arcuri]

In article >,
"D&M" > wrote:

> Hmm... I got one of these tiny tanks. It's not a pretty sight if you decide
> to use it. Fish won't survive long in it.

I've had pretty good luck... kept a betta alive three and a half years
in one of those 1G vases with a plant on top and no filtration. I
received it as a gift, and basically knew nothing about fish care. I
fed him once a day with a little bit of fish food, and there were a few
times that I forgot to feed him for a day or two. I never did partial
water changes. I changed the water COMPLETELY once every 3-4 months,
when the algae would start to build up.

I did this by putting the betta in a large (32 oz) glass with some of
the water from the vase. Then I would clean out the vase with tap water
and a little bit of laundry bleach, which would kill off the algae.
Then I rinsed the vase thoroughly with tap water, and did a final rinse
with distilled water to be sure all the chlorine from the bleach was
gone. I refilled the vase with tap water treated with Amquel, making
sure the temperature was within 1 degree F of the water the betta was
in. (For some reason I had this idea that temperature was the most
critical part of the operation... based on nothing, really.) Then I
would return the betta to the vase, and put the plant back on top with
the roots hanging into the vase. The temperature in my house varied
from ~62 degrees during the night in the coldest months of winter to ~90
degrees during the hottest days of summer.

After reading the rec.aquaria FAQs, I'm frankly surprised that betta did
as well as it did. Logic tells me it should have been dead in a matter
of weeks, if that long. But it remained healthy-looking and active the
entire 3+ years, and only began looking sick in the 10 day period before
it died.

Anyway, the point to all this is that knowing what I do now, I should be
able to keep fish alive and happy in a 1 gallon that has filtration and
that I plan on doing regular partial water changes in. If not then I
may be forced to upgrade to an easier tank size... like 30 gallons. :)

Russ

[Russ Arcuri]

In article >,
"D&M" > wrote:

> Forgot, most 1g tanks aren't heated.... scratch the neons etc., off the
> list. They're a lil picky.

I didn't mention before -- the room this tank will be in is kept
strictly between 75 and 85 degrees year-round to support a bunch of
plants and two hermit crabs. That one room has totally independent heat
controls, so temperature shouldn't be a problem.

Russ

[Sue]

"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message news:photo.nut->
Anyway, the point to all this is that knowing what I do now, I should be
> able to keep fish alive and happy in a 1 gallon that has filtration and
> that I plan on doing regular partial water changes in. If not then I
> may be forced to upgrade to an easier tank size... like 30 gallons. :)

Why muck about with an inadequate fish bowl when you could put less effort
into maintaining a nice habitat?

[Dick]

On Wed, 12 May 2004 01:11:45 GMT, "Dinky"
> wrote:

><interspersed>
>
>"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message
...
>| Hi all,
>|
>| I've been lurking around the various rec.aquaria newsgroups for a
>while,
>| read the FAQs, etc. I'm looking for a little advice.
>|
>
>Good deal. I wish I had read more before I jumped in the first time.
>
>
>| I have a small (~1 gallon) tank that I'd like to put 1-3 fish into.
>I
>| went to two LFSs today and got conflicting advice on how to set up
>the
>| tank.
>
>Not surprising. Sounds pretty normal. Different people give different
>advice:)
>
>
>|
>| LFS 1 says the UGF included with the 1 gallon tank is terrible and
>| shouldn't be used --
>
>UGF's were the standard for many years, and properly taken care of,
>can work quite well.
>
>
>. He says this is a recipe for
>| disaster.
>
>Bullsh*t.
>
>His advice is to use the included air pump to drive a Penn
>| Plax Smallworld filter, and not to bother messing with the plastic
>grate
>| or vertical tube -- "leave them right out of the tank."
>
>Sounds like he's eaither just passing on something he heard, or is
>trying to sell you more equipment. My suggestion would be: there are
>several very small "power filters" on the market that would work in
>that tiny tank. See: "Azoo Palm Filter" A power filter is superior in
>most ways to a UGF, but that is not to say a UGF doesn't work.
>
>
>
>He recommended
>| 1 betta or 3-4 small neon tetras in the tank. He also suggested I
>put a
>| single small plant in there, and pointed out something that looked
>like
>| it had tiny bananas on it.
>
>There are many options for fish. in a one gallon tank, even the betta
>would require frequent large water changes. One gallon is a tiny
>amount of water, and may prove difficult to maintain, though many
>people do it with success. Live plants process nitrates, making a
>healthier tank. That suggestion I agree with highly, though I'd
>suggest a fast grower, like hornwort or anacharis.
>
>
>|
>| LFS 2 says the Penn Plax Smallworld is okay but almost unnecessary,
>as
>| long as I have a UGF, and that I'd be crazy to run the tank without
>the
>| UGF.
>
>See previous comments. Sounds like you should take about half of each
>LFS's advice <g>.
>
>
>He recommended some water treatments as well -- Amquel (which I
>| planned on using anyway to treat my tap water), some other additive
>I'm
>| not familiar with (I think he said "Stress Coat"), and semi-regular
>| restocking of the bacteria cultures he sells. He recommended 3 or
>4
>| small guppies for the tank.
>
>Amquel Plus is a good product, one of the few chemicals I allow near
>my tanks. I have never used the commercial bacterial cultures, and
>the "restocking" advice is plain idiotic. Once your bacterial colony
>is established, the only reason you'd need to "restock" it is if you
>killed it off yourself due to improper maintenance practices. Even
>then, the bacteria exist all over the planet, and can be cutvated
>easily without the use of the commercial products, though some
>aquarists claim great success starting new tanks with them.
>
>
>
>|
>| My questions:
>|
>| 1. Agree with LFS 1 or LFS 2?
>
>Little of both. Or neither. Yeah, neither.
>
>|
>| 2. No matter how it's filtered, it's going to be in a room that
>gets
>| direct sunlight in the evening. It will be in a corner out of the
>sun,
>| but it will probably be fairly bright in the room. Any suggestions
>for
>| controlling algae?
>
>The plant LFS 1 suggested will help with this. The plant, being a
>higher life form than algae, will outcompete the algae for nutrients.
>
>
>|
>| 3. I've read it's a good idea to add a bit of non-iodized salt to
>the
>| tank water -- that this is beneficial to the fish. Any suggestions
>for
>| how much to add to a 1 gallon tank, and how often?
>
>Depends on the fish. Some fish are very intolerant to salt, some
>don't care, and some benefit from it. Research the fish you choose.
>
>
>|
>| 4. Would salt be a problem for any of the fish mentioned above?
>
>IIRC, neons don't like salt. I may be wrong, and am too lazy to go
>look it up. <g>
>
>|
>| Sincerely,
>| Russ
>

I remember years ago reading of a craze of "closed eco systems."
Small closed bowls with fish and plants somehow were balanced,
supposedly, so no maintenance was required. Anyone remember this
craze and how it worked.

When I went to my local school district office the lady had a large,
maybe 50 gallon "river" tank. It had 3 sections kept separate by a
plastic molded insert. Water was pumped from the lower section on the
left to the higher section on the right and moved like a waterfall
going over the partitions until pumped back in a closed system. The
temperature of the water was that of the room. There were 2 or 3 fish
living separately and the woman said she had never fed them. A
teacher had asked her to take it over the summer and never took it
back. So, for 7 months the fish existed with a large ivy appearing
plant extending from the bottom out the top, no light except that
which came in through several windows in the room.

Whatever you do keep it simple. One gallon is not much water. Over
feeding will be your greatest enemy. Since the room temperature is
controlled that will not need a heater. I like water movement, so the
UGF sounds like a plus to me. I would be careful about plants, but
would consider floating plants. The sunlight is my biggest concern.
Hard to clean algae in any tank. As for fish, one male Siamese
Fighting fish would be colorful. Guppies are also colorful. Stay
simple, don't add anything to the water that is not needed. Salt is
not a cure all. Even Mollies which come from brackish water do fine
without salt. I would change water weekly, perhaps a cup at a time,
but don't let the water evaporate away. It will concentrate all the
solid matter, add water to keep it full as well as partial changes.
To reduce evaporation I would cover the top.

An interesting challenge. Ten gallon is the smallest I have and find
larger tanks easier to manage than the tens. Good luck, post your
results, it would be interesting to read.

[Russ Arcuri]

In article >,
"Sue" > wrote:

> Why muck about with an inadequate fish bowl when you could put less effort
> into maintaining a nice habitat?

Because my son got a 1 gallon "tank" as a birthday gift (not from me)
and it's important to him to put a fish or two in it. Also, I don't
have the funds to put together a proper 30 gallon tank right now. Since
reading the FAQs and lurking here, my interest in a bigger tank has
grown but if I do it I want to do it right. I'm saving some money and
hopefully in a few months I'll be able to afford a nice 30 gallon. In
the interim, I'll try to keep a betta or a few very small fish in the 1
gallon and see how I do.

Russ

[Russ Arcuri]

In article >,
Dick > wrote:

> Whatever you do keep it simple.

I'm actually considering running both the UGF and the "smallworld"
filter now. Two filters in a 1 gallon tank seems kind of crazy though,
especially considering my plant/vase/betta experience. I think the
deciding factor will be the fish... it's my understanding that bettas
like still water, yes? If I go with a betta, I'll leave the UGF out.

> An interesting challenge. Ten gallon is the smallest I have and find
> larger tanks easier to manage than the tens. Good luck, post your
> results, it would be interesting to read.

I will.

Thanks to all for the advice thus far.

Russ

[RedForeman ©®]

|| I have a small (~1 gallon) tank that I'd like to put 1-3 fish into.
|| I went to two LFSs today and got conflicting advice on how to set up
|| the tank.
||
|| LFS 1 says the UGF included with the 1 gallon tank is terrible and
|| shouldn't be used -- all it consists of is a plastic grate, a single
|| hard plastic vertical tube, and an airstone driven by an external air
|| pump, which goes into the vertical tube. He says this is a recipe
|| for disaster. His advice is to use the included air pump to drive a
|| Penn Plax Smallworld filter, and not to bother messing with the
|| plastic grate or vertical tube -- "leave them right out of the
|| tank." He recommended 1 betta or 3-4 small neon tetras in the tank.
|| He also suggested I put a single small plant in there, and pointed
|| out something that looked like it had tiny bananas on it.
||
|| LFS 2 says the Penn Plax Smallworld is okay but almost unnecessary,
|| as long as I have a UGF, and that I'd be crazy to run the tank
|| without the UGF. He recommended some water treatments as well --
|| Amquel (which I planned on using anyway to treat my tap water), some
|| other additive I'm not familiar with (I think he said "Stress
|| Coat"), and semi-regular restocking of the bacteria cultures he
|| sells. He recommended 3 or 4 small guppies for the tank.
||
|| My questions:
||
|| 1. Agree with LFS 1 or LFS 2?
||
|| 2. No matter how it's filtered, it's going to be in a room that gets
|| direct sunlight in the evening. It will be in a corner out of the
|| sun, but it will probably be fairly bright in the room. Any
|| suggestions for controlling algae?
||
|| 3. I've read it's a good idea to add a bit of non-iodized salt to the
|| tank water -- that this is beneficial to the fish. Any suggestions
|| for how much to add to a 1 gallon tank, and how often?
||
|| 4. Would salt be a problem for any of the fish mentioned above?
||
|| Sincerely,
|| Russ

Russ, After reading what others have to say, it's great advice... The
simplest of truths is this... Use this ~1g tank to learn with/from... start
here, and prosper into a full blown aquarist... Enjoy teaching/learning with
your son, fish can teach many life lessons, discipline, love, and yes,
loss... If you get a fish, and your son shows great interest, great.. but be
prepared for the day he no longer cares about it, what then? Hopefully, the
two of you can form a routine where you read, learn and research your
interests and maybe he'll help push the hobby forward for you.

Ok, enough rambling...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[Sue]

"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message news:photo.nut-


> > > Why muck about with an inadequate fish bowl when you could put less
effort
> > into maintaining a nice habitat?
>
> Because my son got a 1 gallon "tank" as a birthday gift (not from me)
> and it's important to him to put a fish or two in it.

Why?
Teach him that all animals should be properly housed & get him a floating
glass fish for the bowl - or make a cover & get a stick insect.
Children of that age can have things explained - try telling him that
putting a fish in there would be like him being fastened to a chair BUT you
can start saving up for a proper tank - even use the bowl as the money box!

[Russ Arcuri]

In article >,
"Sue" > wrote:

> Why?
> Teach him that all animals should be properly housed & get him a floating
> glass fish for the bowl - or make a cover & get a stick insect.
> Children of that age can have things explained - try telling him that
> putting a fish in there would be like him being fastened to a chair BUT you
> can start saving up for a proper tank - even use the bowl as the money box!

Sue, I can understand your concern. But I don't think the analogy
(being tied to a chair) is applicable. As I mentioned in another post,
I had a betta that thrived for more than three years in a 1 gallon vase
that wasn't properly filtered or cared for. I believe a 1 gallon tank
that's filtered and properly cared for can be a fine (albeit small) home
for a small fish or two. I may be proven wrong.

The fact is that the various *.aquaria newsgroups are filled with posts
from people talking about how their fish died unexpectedly; "what went
wrong?" This from people with 20, 30, 55, even 75 gallon tanks or
larger. I realize the 1 gallon tank isn't ideal, and that a 30 would be
far preferable. But we're going to give the 1 gallon a try.

Thanks to all for your feedback and advise.

Russ

[Dinky]

"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message
...
| In article >,
| "Sue" > wrote:
|
| Sue, I can understand your concern. But I don't think the analogy
| (being tied to a chair) is applicable. As I mentioned in another
post,
| I had a betta that thrived for more than three years in a 1 gallon
vase
| that wasn't properly filtered or cared for. I believe a 1 gallon
tank
| that's filtered and properly cared for can be a fine (albeit small)
home
| for a small fish or two. I may be proven wrong.
|

Agree here. The small bowls kill countless fish every year, but
mostly by noobs with no clue what they are doing, and operating on
the advice of an untrained, inexperienced 17 year old from Petsmart.
Russ is doing research, and taking what appears to be concern for his
son's upcoming pet. While the smaller tanks are tougher to keep
healthy, with the care Russ seems to be taking things should go well.

billy

[D&M]

Hey Russ, those serious in the aquaria hobby take fish welfare deep to
heart. I know i don't like walking by stacks of bettas in little plastic
cups in my local walmart, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Think maybe where Sue was aiming is that if you wanted to get your son into
the hobby of fish keeping, and starting to teach him responsibility, it
might not be easily taught to him in a 1g tank due to fatalities. He could
easily become disheartened and lose interest, and end up losing the whole
learning experience and responsibility involved with fish keeping.

I stick to my earlier comments about smaller fish in a small tank. In this
day in age of Betta keeping, I think your 1g tank would probably be a palace
to him, and probably a great start for your son. And as you were saying the
temps remain above 75F, it's a more than welcome home for Neons or simular,
as well as the water was properly maintained.


"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Sue" > wrote:
>
> > Why?
> > Teach him that all animals should be properly housed & get him a
floating
> > glass fish for the bowl - or make a cover & get a stick insect.
> > Children of that age can have things explained - try telling him that
> > putting a fish in there would be like him being fastened to a chair BUT
you
> > can start saving up for a proper tank - even use the bowl as the money
box!
>
> Sue, I can understand your concern. But I don't think the analogy
> (being tied to a chair) is applicable. As I mentioned in another post,
> I had a betta that thrived for more than three years in a 1 gallon vase
> that wasn't properly filtered or cared for. I believe a 1 gallon tank
> that's filtered and properly cared for can be a fine (albeit small) home
> for a small fish or two. I may be proven wrong.
>
> The fact is that the various *.aquaria newsgroups are filled with posts
> from people talking about how their fish died unexpectedly; "what went
> wrong?" This from people with 20, 30, 55, even 75 gallon tanks or
> larger. I realize the 1 gallon tank isn't ideal, and that a 30 would be
> far preferable. But we're going to give the 1 gallon a try.
>
> Thanks to all for your feedback and advise.
>
> Russ

[johnhuddleston]

The downside of UGFs in a tank that small is that the uplift will create a
lot of circulation and fish tend to get dragged around so make sure you get
fish that like a bit of flow or cap the amount of airflow to the airstone.
The plus is that the massive surface area of the gravel will be more than
enough to process a small fishes waste.
Once the tank is cycled you should not need any topup on the bacteria
(unless it crashes, which is likely in a small tank and probably why the
second LFS suggested it).
I`d change 1 pint of water weekly, (siphon off 1 pint of dirty water with a
piece of airline, drag it through the top layer of gravel to suck up any
solids) just leave a pint of tapwater out to stand overnight, don`t bother
with water conditioners unless you need them for something other than
chlorine, chlorine will gas out on its own within hours, my philosophy has
always been the less chemicals used, the better.
I`m a big fan of UGfs though, if the solids are siphoned off regularly they
are probably the most reliable/idiot proof form of filtration. To control
the algae i`d suggest a layer of duckweed on the surface of the tank as this
will reduce the amount of light getting into the tank and also leach some
nutrients out of the water, cover 3 sides of the tank with backing. put some
other plants in there too if you like the look of em. I personally don`t
bother with any additives, but then again, i don`t have a 1g tank :)
The more fish you put in, the more work you will have to do maintenance wise
and the more the fish will become stressed. Hopefully you`ll get sick of
maintenance, buy a huge tank, woefully understock it, get drunk more often
and change water less often.

"Russ Arcuri" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> I've been lurking around the various rec.aquaria newsgroups for a while,
> read the FAQs, etc. I'm looking for a little advice.
>
> I have a small (~1 gallon) tank that I'd like to put 1-3 fish into. I
> went to two LFSs today and got conflicting advice on how to set up the
> tank.
>
> LFS 1 says the UGF included with the 1 gallon tank is terrible and
> shouldn't be used -- all it consists of is a plastic grate, a single
> hard plastic vertical tube, and an airstone driven by an external air
> pump, which goes into the vertical tube. He says this is a recipe for
> disaster. His advice is to use the included air pump to drive a Penn
> Plax Smallworld filter, and not to bother messing with the plastic grate
> or vertical tube -- "leave them right out of the tank." He recommended
> 1 betta or 3-4 small neon tetras in the tank. He also suggested I put a
> single small plant in there, and pointed out something that looked like
> it had tiny bananas on it.
>
> LFS 2 says the Penn Plax Smallworld is okay but almost unnecessary, as
> long as I have a UGF, and that I'd be crazy to run the tank without the
> UGF. He recommended some water treatments as well -- Amquel (which I
> planned on using anyway to treat my tap water), some other additive I'm
> not familiar with (I think he said "Stress Coat"), and semi-regular
> restocking of the bacteria cultures he sells. He recommended 3 or 4
> small guppies for the tank.
>
> My questions:
>
> 1. Agree with LFS 1 or LFS 2?
>
> 2. No matter how it's filtered, it's going to be in a room that gets
> direct sunlight in the evening. It will be in a corner out of the sun,
> but it will probably be fairly bright in the room. Any suggestions for
> controlling algae?
>
> 3. I've read it's a good idea to add a bit of non-iodized salt to the
> tank water -- that this is beneficial to the fish. Any suggestions for
> how much to add to a 1 gallon tank, and how often?
>
> 4. Would salt be a problem for any of the fish mentioned above?
>
> Sincerely,
> Russ

[IDzine01]

Hey Russ, I've been following your post with Sue and thought I might
make a few comments.

(I volunteer several hours each week helping people with their betta
questions specifically.)

Just to clear up, a one gallon container is not considered inhumane
for betta housings, however, it is the bare minimum size and does come
with it's fare share of complications. (It's less like being tied to a
chair and more like living in a Manhattan apartment.) Since bettas are
very sensitive to their environments it's crucial that you keep the
water pristine in such a small tank. I personally don't recommend
anything smaller then 2.5 gal because it's so much more work for the
owner to keep the water parameters right. If you were to purchase a
small 2.5 gal or 5 gal container (vary inexpensive) you could cycle it
and not have to do as frequent water changes and water testing. Also,
these slightly larger tanks can easily accommodate a 25 watt heater.
Reading your earlier post it's apparent that you already know what a
miracle it was for you old betta to survive in the vase. I have to
agree with you that it's nothing short of wondrous that he made it as
long as he did. When kept in proper conditions your next betta could
live 5 or more years. If you are going to purchase another one I urge
you to consider using the following basic betta care "guidelines"... I
call them guidelines because "rules" seem harsh, however these guides
should be considered requirements with bettas since after all, they
are live animals like any cat, dog or horse.
1. 1 gal min tank, 2.5-5g is greatly preferred.
2. Cycle tank using fishless method, bettas are not good cycle fish.
3. Should you choose not to cycle the tank, 100% water changes are an
absolute must. Bettas are vary sensitive to ammonia and nitrites and
can experience ammonia/nitrite poisoning in a very short amount of
time. The consequences are burned gills leading to disease or gill
disorders, severe fin rot and weakening of immune system. Even .25-ppm
ammonia is too much over a short period of time. In a 1 gal container
you may have to change the water every 4-6 days max. Be sure not put
a filter in an uncycled tank, it may cause mini cycles which stress
your betta.
4. You must heat the tank. Bettas cannot live comfortable in
temperatures under 75*F. It should be stable and preferable about 78*F
but anything between 75 and 80* is ok as long as it's stable.
5. Do not overfeed them. They are prone to bloating, constipation and
swim bladder disorders exacerbated by overfeeding and dry food. They
much prefer frozen or live food to pellets and this simple food choice
is strongly recommended.
6. Test Test Test. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH testing should be
considered a must with any fish, especially bettas. If your tank is
not cycled, you may be testing every day or every other day to keep
things stable. They are easily affected by pH swings and testing
should occur at every water change as well.
7. Don't forget your water conditioners. Ok, I already read that you
use AmQuel and NovAqua. That's what I use too. I really like Kordon's
products myself.
8. Don't block the water's surface with anything (like a plant).
Bettas breathe air from the surface with a special organ they have
just for that purpose. Blocking their access to the atmosphere will
literally drown your betta. Reason #1 why so many folks are trying to
get betta vases off the shelves in stores worldwide.

Those are the basics. It's really not as bad as it seems so please
don't be discouraged. The best thing you can do is rescue a betta from
a LFS. There is nothing worse then the conditions they're kept in at
the store. Just be prepared to care for him yourself. Most children
are too young to understand all the work that goes into keeping fish.
When people ask me if fish are a good first pet, I usually tell them
that cats and dogs are MUCH easier.

Best of luck with your new betta. I'm sure your son is going to love
him.



Russ Arcuri > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> "Sue" > wrote:
>
> > Why?
> > Teach him that all animals should be properly housed & get him a floating
> > glass fish for the bowl - or make a cover & get a stick insect.
> > Children of that age can have things explained - try telling him that
> > putting a fish in there would be like him being fastened to a chair BUT you
> > can start saving up for a proper tank - even use the bowl as the money box!
>
> Sue, I can understand your concern. But I don't think the analogy
> (being tied to a chair) is applicable. As I mentioned in another post,
> I had a betta that thrived for more than three years in a 1 gallon vase
> that wasn't properly filtered or cared for. I believe a 1 gallon tank
> that's filtered and properly cared for can be a fine (albeit small) home
> for a small fish or two. I may be proven wrong.
>
> The fact is that the various *.aquaria newsgroups are filled with posts
> from people talking about how their fish died unexpectedly; "what went
> wrong?" This from people with 20, 30, 55, even 75 gallon tanks or
> larger. I realize the 1 gallon tank isn't ideal, and that a 30 would be
> far preferable. But we're going to give the 1 gallon a try.
>
> Thanks to all for your feedback and advise.
>
> Russ

[Dick]

On 14 May 2004 15:41:10 -0700, (IDzine01) wrote:

>Hey Russ, I've been following your post with Sue and thought I might
>make a few comments.
>
>(I volunteer several hours each week helping people with their betta
>questions specifically.)
>
>Just to clear up, a one gallon container is not considered inhumane
>for betta housings, however, it is the bare minimum size and does come
>with it's fare share of complications. (It's less like being tied to a
>chair and more like living in a Manhattan apartment.) Since bettas are
>very sensitive to their environments it's crucial that you keep the
>water pristine in such a small tank. I personally don't recommend
>anything smaller then 2.5 gal because it's so much more work for the
>owner to keep the water parameters right. If you were to purchase a
>small 2.5 gal or 5 gal container (vary inexpensive) you could cycle it
>and not have to do as frequent water changes and water testing. Also,
>these slightly larger tanks can easily accommodate a 25 watt heater.
>Reading your earlier post it's apparent that you already know what a
>miracle it was for you old betta to survive in the vase. I have to
>agree with you that it's nothing short of wondrous that he made it as
>long as he did. When kept in proper conditions your next betta could
>live 5 or more years. If you are going to purchase another one I urge
>you to consider using the following basic betta care "guidelines"... I
>call them guidelines because "rules" seem harsh, however these guides
>should be considered requirements with bettas since after all, they
>are live animals like any cat, dog or horse.
>1. 1 gal min tank, 2.5-5g is greatly preferred.
>2. Cycle tank using fishless method, bettas are not good cycle fish.
>3. Should you choose not to cycle the tank, 100% water changes are an
>absolute must. Bettas are vary sensitive to ammonia and nitrites and
>can experience ammonia/nitrite poisoning in a very short amount of
>time. The consequences are burned gills leading to disease or gill
>disorders, severe fin rot and weakening of immune system. Even .25-ppm
>ammonia is too much over a short period of time. In a 1 gal container
>you may have to change the water every 4-6 days max. Be sure not put
>a filter in an uncycled tank, it may cause mini cycles which stress
>your betta.
>4. You must heat the tank. Bettas cannot live comfortable in
>temperatures under 75*F. It should be stable and preferable about 78*F
>but anything between 75 and 80* is ok as long as it's stable.
>5. Do not overfeed them. They are prone to bloating, constipation and
>swim bladder disorders exacerbated by overfeeding and dry food. They
>much prefer frozen or live food to pellets and this simple food choice
>is strongly recommended.
>6. Test Test Test. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH testing should be
>considered a must with any fish, especially bettas. If your tank is
>not cycled, you may be testing every day or every other day to keep
>things stable. They are easily affected by pH swings and testing
>should occur at every water change as well.
>7. Don't forget your water conditioners. Ok, I already read that you
>use AmQuel and NovAqua. That's what I use too. I really like Kordon's
>products myself.
>8. Don't block the water's surface with anything (like a plant).
>Bettas breathe air from the surface with a special organ they have
>just for that purpose. Blocking their access to the atmosphere will
>literally drown your betta. Reason #1 why so many folks are trying to
>get betta vases off the shelves in stores worldwide.
>
>Those are the basics. It's really not as bad as it seems so please
>don't be discouraged. The best thing you can do is rescue a betta from
>a LFS. There is nothing worse then the conditions they're kept in at
>the store. Just be prepared to care for him yourself. Most children
>are too young to understand all the work that goes into keeping fish.
>When people ask me if fish are a good first pet, I usually tell them
>that cats and dogs are MUCH easier.
>
>Best of luck with your new betta. I'm sure your son is going to love
>him.
>

Just butting in: Wow, I have never heard anyone say so much about
caring for a Beta. I have seen them kept in small bowls and never
gave a thought to them being "real" fish and being sensitive to water
conditions and heat. Quite an eye opener. How can they live in the
small bowls? I have even seen two such bowls side by side to
encourage displaying. And over eaters? Well, live and learn. I
think I have had one male beta, once in my life. He never belonged in
the community tank, he was a "nipper." I don't know what happened to
him, maybe down the old toilet bowl. They are such pretty critters,
by I like community fish. Thanks for the fascinating rundown on how
to properly care for Beta fish.
>
>
>Russ Arcuri > wrote in message >...
>> In article >,
>> "Sue" > wrote:
>>
>> > Why?
>> > Teach him that all animals should be properly housed & get him a floating
>> > glass fish for the bowl - or make a cover & get a stick insect.
>> > Children of that age can have things explained - try telling him that
>> > putting a fish in there would be like him being fastened to a chair BUT you
>> > can start saving up for a proper tank - even use the bowl as the money box!
>>
>> Sue, I can understand your concern. But I don't think the analogy
>> (being tied to a chair) is applicable. As I mentioned in another post,
>> I had a betta that thrived for more than three years in a 1 gallon vase
>> that wasn't properly filtered or cared for. I believe a 1 gallon tank
>> that's filtered and properly cared for can be a fine (albeit small) home
>> for a small fish or two. I may be proven wrong.
>>
>> The fact is that the various *.aquaria newsgroups are filled with posts
>> from people talking about how their fish died unexpectedly; "what went
>> wrong?" This from people with 20, 30, 55, even 75 gallon tanks or
>> larger. I realize the 1 gallon tank isn't ideal, and that a 30 would be
>> far preferable. But we're going to give the 1 gallon a try.
>>
>> Thanks to all for your feedback and advise.
>>
>> Russ

[IDzine01]

> Just butting in: Wow, I have never heard anyone say so much about
> caring for a Beta.

Ha, and to think I was just getting started. ;) I have about 10 pages
of content written for my webpage and am still furiously writing. I
found them so fascinating I sought out every bit of information I
could.

>I have seen them kept in small bowls and never
> gave a thought to them being "real" fish and being sensitive to water
> conditions and heat. Quite an eye opener. How can they live in the
> small bowls?
In short, they can't. It's a marketing disaster. Manufacturers design
tiny little "Betta Bowls" and market them to unsuspecting customers.
They tell people that bettas are only comfortable in small spaces
because it mimics their natural habitat. (Rice paddies) It might have
started as a misconception, but by now it's just a bold face lie.
Here's a link that show's a rice paddy. You can see it's NOT a quart
of water.
http://www.aquamaniacs.net/bettavase.html

>I have even seen two such bowls side by side to
> encourage displaying. And over eaters? Well, live and learn. I
> think I have had one male beta, once in my life. He never belonged in
> the community tank, he was a "nipper." I don't know what happened to
> him, maybe down the old toilet bowl. They are such pretty critters,
> by I like community fish. Thanks for the fascinating rundown on how
> to properly care for Beta fish.

I started with a betta bowl too and when my betta died after 1 year I
thought he had lived a long life. Then years later I got another two.
Within weeks we had lost one and the other one was on his way out.
That's when I started talking to "experts", breeders, enthusiasts...
anyone I could. They're really quite complex but easy to care for once
you understand them. They should be sold as intermediate fish instead
of beginners really.