first aquarium

[Chris Arnold]

I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and leak
tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter and
plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end, my desired fish are one
male betta, as a top dweller, a zebra pleco on the bottom and a few guppies
to occupy the middle, I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
fish....any suggestions? I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the
pleco, and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges... I will light
it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window) I
will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in it. Is
this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies are
other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on getting
any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the java
moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
invertebres...but not sure about compatability.

[bottom feeder]

Chris Arnold wrote:
> I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and leak
> tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter and
> plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end, my desired fish are one
> male betta, as a top dweller, a zebra pleco on the bottom and a few guppies
> to occupy the middle, I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
> fish....any suggestions? I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the
> pleco, and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges... I will light
> it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window) I
> will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in it. Is
> this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies are
> other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on getting
> any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the java
> moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
> invertebres...but not sure about compatability.
>
>


Just to give you an idea, my 10 gallon set up is this;

1 paradise fish
2 cherry barbs
1 kuhli loach
2 SAE (one gets moved around to my other tanks as needed)
1 Albino Africa Clawed frog (he was saved from Wal-Mart and is getting a
new home as soon as he grows up)

1 Java Fern
1 clumo of java moss on driftwood
1 Anubias nana
some lily pad looking thing I got from work, don't remeber the name

Filter sand for substrate mixed with that aquatic plant soil from Home
Depot.

Lighting is one of the $20 All-Glass econo hoods with two CF screw in bulbs.

I would switch out the guppies just in case. Instead of a zebra pl*co
try a few Oto cats. 10 gallons seems kinda small for a zebra pl*co to
me. As far as invertebres, MTS (Malaysian Trumpet snails) would work.

--
dan

[Mike Edwardes]

In article >,
"Chris Arnold" > wrote:

> I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and leak
> tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter and
> plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end, my desired fish are one
> male betta, as a top dweller, a zebra pleco on the bottom and a few guppies
> to occupy the middle, I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
> fish....any suggestions? I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the
> pleco, and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges... I will light
> it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window) I
> will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in it. Is
> this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies are
> other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on getting
> any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the java
> moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
> invertebres...but not sure about compatability.


Personally, I wouldn't put a zebra pl*co in a 10 gallon tank:
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Hzebra.html

Other than that:

1) READ A GOOD BOOK (or preferably, several). Lots around, your choice:
Amazon:
http://tinyurl.com/2rs5q
Amazon.UK:
http://tinyurl.com/2n9nv

2) DON'T OVERSTOCK: 1cm fish (ADULT body length, ignore tail) per 2
litres of water. Don't cheat on this rule!

3) DON'T OVERFEED - feed only as much food as your fish can eat in 5
minutes, once a day only.

4) Do REGULAR partial WATERCHANGES - don't neglect this, e.g. 10-20%
once a week, or 30-40% once a fortnight.

Good luck and have fun!

Mike.
--
Mike Edwardes Tropicals
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net

[Dick]

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:34:28 GMT, "Chris Arnold"
> wrote:

>I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and leak
>tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter and
>plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end, my desired fish are one
>male betta, as a top dweller, a zebra pleco on the bottom and a few guppies
>to occupy the middle, I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
>fish....any suggestions? I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the
>pleco, and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges... I will light
>it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window) I
>will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in it. Is
>this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies are
>other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on getting
>any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the java
>moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
>invertebres...but not sure about compatability.
>

I have had trouble with Plecos in 10 gallon tank, several have died.
I enjoy Plecos and have 3 in my 75 gallon tank, but only one in a 29
gallon tank, I had 2 in the tank, but one died.

I do not consider Male Bettas as community fish. I consider them "fin
nippers."

A ten gallon tank is not a movable object so where ever you sit it it
will stay there for all practical considerations. Natural sunlight is
hard to control. Unless you had a powered window shade and could
automatically control it (just a science fiction notion) I would not
think this is going to work. I would predict lots of algae. Lighting
is so important to a tank and any successful plant regime will depend
on lighting. Sunlight varies so much day to day and by season, I just
don't see how you can choose plants that will work with those
variations. You also cheat yourself of good viewing. I hope you will
think about lighting some more. What kind of plants you want? Do you
want to look at the tank at night, for instance. Do you want to
battle algae? I am sure you can succeed, but it will presents some
real challenges.

[Velvet]

Dick wrote:

> On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:34:28 GMT, "Chris Arnold"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and leak
>>tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter and
>>plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end, my desired fish are one
>>male betta, as a top dweller, a zebra pleco on the bottom and a few guppies
>>to occupy the middle, I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
>>fish....any suggestions? I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the
>>pleco, and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges... I will light
>>it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window) I
>>will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in it. Is
>>this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies are
>>other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on getting
>>any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the java
>>moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
>>invertebres...but not sure about compatability.
>>
>
>
> I have had trouble with Plecos in 10 gallon tank, several have died.
> I enjoy Plecos and have 3 in my 75 gallon tank, but only one in a 29
> gallon tank, I had 2 in the tank, but one died.
>
> I do not consider Male Bettas as community fish. I consider them "fin
> nippers."
>

Whereas I do think of Male Bettas as community fish, since I've kept
several (not at the same time, obviously!) in community tanks without
problems. I see most problems when the tank is sparsley planted. If
it's well stocked with plants then the betta's territory is smaller
(bounded by plants, typically) and the problems just don't exist.

Mine's quite happy in there with cardinal tetra, harlequins, pearl
gourami, and a breeding pair of angels.

--


Velvet

[axeman chris]

"Chris Arnold" > wrote in message
.com...
> I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and leak
> tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter and
> plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end, my desired fish are one
> male betta, as a top dweller, a zebra pleco on the bottom and a few
guppies
> to occupy the middle, I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
> fish....any suggestions? I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the
> pleco, and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges... I will
light
> it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window) I
> will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in it.
Is
> this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies are
> other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on getting
> any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the java
> moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
> invertebres...but not sure about compatability.
>

The pet shop guppies that I have bought recently are so fragile that I don't
think they would last your entire cycling period. Perhaps try something a
bit hardier to cycle with & introduce your guppies afterwards. Keep in
mind too that guppies breed like rabbits and although many of the fry will
be eaten by the other fish, if you have good hiding spots for them you may
soon have many, many guppies.

Jacqui

>

[RedForeman ©®]

|I will light it using natural
|| sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window) I will make
|| sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in it. Is
|| this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies
|| are other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan
|| on getting any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish
|| load, will the java moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also
|| want to have invertebres...but not sure about compatability.

8lbs per gallon of water, times 10 for the volume, plus 10-15lbs for sand...
You do the math...

Do you really think you're going to move this tank around? Seriously, for
an the cost of the lid with lights, do yourself a huge favor, (since the
tank was free) and get a lightstrip, a single bulb 15w 18" strip and you'll
be happy.

Don't forget a background and for the fishes sake, don't just throw the fish
in and hope.... Read.
www.thekrib.com and research fishless cycling.

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[NetMax]

Sounds like you have given this a lot of thought already. Some random
comments interspersed.

"Chris Arnold" > wrote in message
.com...
> I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and
leak
> tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter
and
> plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end

Sounds peachy so far :o)

>, my desired fish are one
> male betta, as a top dweller,

Excellent choice as having behavioural characteristics which are quite
unique. The odd one is problematic, and some will view male Guppies as
competitors and will attack them. Don't let that discourage you if you
can. You might need to do a switch if the first one picked doesn't work.
They aren't strict top-dwellers, and are known to pick around the bottom
as well.

> a zebra pleco on the bottom

With the sun exposure you mentioned later on, I would go with an algae
eating fish rather than a carnivorous pleco. Someone suggested Otos
which might be ideal. If your water is hard, neritas (sp) snails might
be another good choice (I recall something about you wanting
invertebrates).

> and a few guppies to occupy the middle,

Besides the potential problem with Bettas, Guppies like harder water and
you probably know about their ability to propagate ;~)

> I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
> fish....any suggestions?

I find Guppies are not as hardy as they used to be, so they make poor
fish for cycling a tank. Fishless cycling or using something a bit more
hardy and cross-seeding with used filter media would be my preferred
choices. You could cycle with the Betta and a snail. It would be a slow
leisurely 'cycle' but if you're not in a hurry, why not? The Java plant
will absorb some of the waste products, but can't be counted on to do the
whole job. You would still be monitoring the water parameters and doing
small water changes.

> I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the pleco,

Definitely a very good idea for algae eating plecos, which you don't
currently have any of. I'd still add the driftwood though.

> and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges...

With the algae you will probably culture, you will most probably be going
with flakes and some treats focussing on the fish you have (Bettas are
carnivores). The algae wafers would be used infrequently.

> I will light
> it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window)
I
> will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in
it.

Before you put fish in, measure the water temperature at the end of a hot
afternoon and compare it with early morning. Ideally, there should not
be more than a 3F swing allowed in a 24 hour period, or the tank's
location will not be suitable. Window seats are usually problematic, as
there is radiant energy half the day and then there is the cold draft off
the glass during the night. ymmv To work around the temperature swings,
setting your heater high will sometimes work (depends on the severity of
your radiant exposure). Otherwise, the natural light to establish their
diurnal cycle is fine.

> Is this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies
are
> other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on
getting
> any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the
java
> moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
> invertebres...but not sure about compatability.

In non-direct sunlight, it's possible for plants to out-compete algae.
In direct sunlight (with my limited experience) I've never seen this
happen. You can achieve an equilibrium with enough of an algae crew,
unless/until you get an algae bloom (green water). It may be a
challenge.

As for the fish choices, I'd favour the fish which best matched your tap
water parameters, and the final temperature range you will be running at,
so more data is really needed. Maybe a mixture of snails (include some
MTS for your sand), shrimps, frogs (ADFs) and a Betta would work & look
well together. The Betta will keep your shrimp population down (with
pleasure ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Chris Arnold]

NetMax > wrote in message
...
> Sounds like you have given this a lot of thought already. Some random
> comments interspersed.

Thanks, I have been doing some reading, and I appreciate your help.

> "Chris Arnold" > wrote in message
> .com...
> > I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it and
> leak
> > tested it. I want to use a sand substrate with a simple sponge filter
> and
> > plant java moss on 2 cocanut shells on each end
>
> Sounds peachy so far :o)

I wanted to use somthing tall as well, perhaps anachris, but that has yet to
be determined.

> >, my desired fish are one
> > male betta, as a top dweller,
>
> Excellent choice as having behavioural characteristics which are quite
> unique. The odd one is problematic, and some will view male Guppies as
> competitors and will attack them. Don't let that discourage you if you
> can. You might need to do a switch if the first one picked doesn't work.
> They aren't strict top-dwellers, and are known to pick around the bottom
> as well.

I wanted the betta as a centerpiece fish, they are quite beautiful.

> > a zebra pleco on the bottom
>
> With the sun exposure you mentioned later on, I would go with an algae
> eating fish rather than a carnivorous pleco. Someone suggested Otos
> which might be ideal. If your water is hard, neritas (sp) snails might
> be another good choice (I recall something about you wanting
> invertebrates).

I chose the zebra pleco based on appearance alone, I didnt look into its
diet yet, thanks. I will look into Otos. Perhaps also snails.

> > and a few guppies to occupy the middle,
>
> Besides the potential problem with Bettas, Guppies like harder water and
> you probably know about their ability to propagate ;~)

indeed, I will find somthing else that is small and pretty to take their
place, they were also an appearance choice.

> > I was intending to use the guppies as my cycle
> > fish....any suggestions?
>
> I find Guppies are not as hardy as they used to be, so they make poor
> fish for cycling a tank. Fishless cycling or using something a bit more
> hardy and cross-seeding with used filter media would be my preferred
> choices. You could cycle with the Betta and a snail. It would be a slow
> leisurely 'cycle' but if you're not in a hurry, why not? The Java plant
> will absorb some of the waste products, but can't be counted on to do the
> whole job. You would still be monitoring the water parameters and doing
> small water changes.

Hm...I like the idea of the leisurely cycle.

> > I will obtain a small piece of driftwood for the pleco,
>
> Definitely a very good idea for algae eating plecos, which you don't
> currently have any of. I'd still add the driftwood though.

are there any other small plecos that feed on algea?

> > and plan on feeding flakes and small zuchinni wedges...
>
> With the algae you will probably culture, you will most probably be going
> with flakes and some treats focussing on the fish you have (Bettas are
> carnivores). The algae wafers would be used infrequently.

Yeah, I was going to grow mosquito larvea for the betta as treats.

> > I will light
> > it using natural sunlight in 12 hour cycles (by setting it in a window)
> I
> > will make sure the water doesnt get too hot before I put anything in
> it.
>
> Before you put fish in, measure the water temperature at the end of a hot
> afternoon and compare it with early morning. Ideally, there should not
> be more than a 3F swing allowed in a 24 hour period, or the tank's
> location will not be suitable. Window seats are usually problematic, as
> there is radiant energy half the day and then there is the cold draft off
> the glass during the night. ymmv To work around the temperature swings,
> setting your heater high will sometimes work (depends on the severity of
> your radiant exposure). Otherwise, the natural light to establish their
> diurnal cycle is fine.

I live in florida, and I was going to put it in a north window, so there is
very little DIRECT sunlight, also a slightly smaller temperature change from
day to night than most places. But, like I said, I was going to check temp
with a full tank before putting fish in.

> > Is this a good mix of fish? I fear the male betta may think the guppies
> are
> > other male bettas, and be overly aggressive... but I dont plan on
> getting
> > any more than five guppies...it seems like a good fish load, will the
> java
> > moss outcompete the algea for neutrients? I also want to have
> > invertebres...but not sure about compatability.
>
> In non-direct sunlight, it's possible for plants to out-compete algae.
> In direct sunlight (with my limited experience) I've never seen this
> happen. You can achieve an equilibrium with enough of an algae crew,
> unless/until you get an algae bloom (green water). It may be a
> challenge.

I dont mind putting a ****load of plants in the tank, I was going to
experement.

> As for the fish choices, I'd favour the fish which best matched your tap
> water parameters, and the final temperature range you will be running at,
> so more data is really needed. Maybe a mixture of snails (include some
> MTS for your sand), shrimps, frogs (ADFs) and a Betta would work & look
> well together. The Betta will keep your shrimp population down (with
> pleasure ;~).

Tap around here is pretty hard, and there is clorimine in it, so obviously I
will be treating it before use, I was planning a two gallon a week water
change, or perhaps one gallon twice a week, I dont plan on neglecting it.

I also love clown loaches, but they are a bit too large for this tank,
perhaps a trio of clown loaches and a couple snails? feeding mosquito larvea
part of the year and flake the rest of it?

> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

[NetMax]

"Chris Arnold" > wrote in message
om...
> NetMax > wrote in message
> ...
> > Sounds like you have given this a lot of thought already. Some
random
> > comments interspersed.
>
> Thanks, I have been doing some reading, and I appreciate your help.
>
> > "Chris Arnold" > wrote in message
> > .com...
> > > I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it
and
<snip>

> are there any other small plecos that feed on algea?

Commonly called the bushynose or bristlenose pleco, these characters only
get to a maximum of about 4.5" long, though 3" is a more typical size.
Quite possibly still too large for a 10g though.

<snip>
>
> I also love clown loaches, but they are a bit too large for this tank,
> perhaps a trio of clown loaches and a couple snails? feeding mosquito
larvea
> part of the year and flake the rest of it?

Another social and comical bottom-feeder is the Pygmy corydoras. They
are sized for a 10g. In terms of colour and simialr activity, 3 or 4
Kuhli loaches would be entertaining and they don't mind cooler waters.

It's only when you see a full grown Clown loach, that you can really
appreciate it's space requirements. Putting any in a 10g would be quite
temporary (less than 5 months?).

I see 2 problems with alternating flakes and larvae twice a year. The
first is that while the larvae is a very rich & healthy source of
protein, it will be a somewhat narrow source of nutrition which would not
suit all fish (especially for 6 months of the year). In the wild they
supplement their diet on a wider variety of foods. Many fish need more
veggies in their diet. I would continue the flake food throughout the
year and use the larvae as treats.

The 2nd problem is the risk factor associated with wild harvested live
foods from natural waterways. Contagions (typically more parasites than
anything else) can have a field day in the small confines of an aquarium,
on fish which have very little natural immunity to our local bugs. With
an aquarium's high fish-water ratio, the fish have very little time to
develop any immunity before the parasites reach a reproductive stage.
It's a risk which varies according to your source of water. If nothing
else, you will also be introducing a variety of water beetles and bugs
which add to the entertainment (and some will point out, the risk). As
they say, ymmv ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

[T]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Chris Arnold" > wrote in message
> om...
> > NetMax > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Sounds like you have given this a lot of thought already. Some
> random
> > > comments interspersed.
> >
> > Thanks, I have been doing some reading, and I appreciate your help.
> >
> > > "Chris Arnold" > wrote in message
> > > .com...
> > > > I have gotten a ten gallon aquarium for free...I have cleaned it
> and
> <snip>
>
> > are there any other small plecos that feed on algea?
>
> Commonly called the bushynose or bristlenose pleco, these characters only
> get to a maximum of about 4.5" long, though 3" is a more typical size.
> Quite possibly still too large for a 10g though.
>
> <snip>
> >
> > I also love clown loaches, but they are a bit too large for this tank,
> > perhaps a trio of clown loaches and a couple snails? feeding mosquito
> larvea
> > part of the year and flake the rest of it?
>
> Another social and comical bottom-feeder is the Pygmy corydoras. They
> are sized for a 10g. In terms of colour and simialr activity, 3 or 4
> Kuhli loaches would be entertaining and they don't mind cooler waters.
>
> It's only when you see a full grown Clown loach, that you can really
> appreciate it's space requirements. Putting any in a 10g would be quite
> temporary (less than 5 months?).
>
> I see 2 problems with alternating flakes and larvae twice a year. The
> first is that while the larvae is a very rich & healthy source of
> protein, it will be a somewhat narrow source of nutrition which would not
> suit all fish (especially for 6 months of the year). In the wild they
> supplement their diet on a wider variety of foods. Many fish need more
> veggies in their diet. I would continue the flake food throughout the
> year and use the larvae as treats.
>
> The 2nd problem is the risk factor associated with wild harvested live
> foods from natural waterways. Contagions (typically more parasites than
> anything else) can have a field day in the small confines of an aquarium,
> on fish which have very little natural immunity to our local bugs. With
> an aquarium's high fish-water ratio, the fish have very little time to
> develop any immunity before the parasites reach a reproductive stage.
> It's a risk which varies according to your source of water. If nothing
> else, you will also be introducing a variety of water beetles and bugs
> which add to the entertainment (and some will point out, the risk). As
> they say, ymmv ;~)
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

The Zebra Pleco is an expensive little feller as well.. I don't think I
could forcast a very long life for such a critter in 10g.. The Zebra is a
Carnavoire..Feeding him a diet of vegi's is not going to help him grow nor
will it help his health greatly.. Eventually the Pleco will hunt down the
guppies and feast on them, then who's next.. I like the Zebra pleco's, but
I myself don't think I have enough room for him in a 55g tank.. Like Netmax
suggested, a varied food diet would be equally important for most of the
said fish. ( The Betta is a Carn too ). Welcome to fish keeping and if you
get more and more intrested in the hobby, the larger tanks and books will
follow..

Tim