cleaning second hand tank

[Desmond Wong]

Hi,

Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired one,
and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the bottom
half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white film-like
substance on it.

I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What would
be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?

Des.

[RedForeman ©®]

|| Hi,
||
|| Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have
|| aquired one, and found that because the previous owner kept it only
|| half full, the bottom half of the tank is quite clean, but the top
|| half has this white film-like substance on it.
||
|| I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift.
|| What would be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
||
|| Des.

Soap, water, elbow grease.... Scouring pad, if it's glass, and vinegar,
sometimes CLR can be effective... others will have more ideas too....

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[Ali Day]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> || Hi,
> ||
> || Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have
> || aquired one, and found that because the previous owner kept it only
> || half full, the bottom half of the tank is quite clean, but the top
> || half has this white film-like substance on it.
> ||
> || I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift.
> || What would be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
> ||
> || Des.
>
> Soap, water, elbow grease.... Scouring pad, if it's glass, and vinegar,
> sometimes CLR can be effective... others will have more ideas too....

If a razor blade or stanley knife blade isn't shifting it then it must be
thick, or your glass is badly etched.

A 10 to 1 dilution of hydrochloric acid, as above elbow grease, and some
gloves, don't splash it everywhere, but just make sure your cloth is damp
with the solution, not dripping and it should wipe off. Then rinse very very
very thoroughly.

Sounds drastic, but my first 'real' tank was second hand, and the water
round here without treating, is about as hard as it can get, hence I had a
similar problem.

cheers

A

[Geezer From The Freezer]

empty completely fill up with 1 part bleach and 10 parts water let it sit for a
day
empty and rinse a few times. If scale marks are still visible run vinegar over
the marks
and let it sit for another day. Rub off (should have dissolved). Rinse tank
several
times until the smell of bleach and vingear have gone. Fill and put a double or
triple
dose of dechlorinator (that treats chloramine and heavy metals) and leave for a
day or
so and rinse and rinse. Basically be paranoid in getting rid of the bleach.

Thats what I would do anyway.

[Rick]

"Desmond Wong" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired one,
> and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the
bottom
> half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white film-like
> substance on it.
>
> I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What
would
> be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
>
> Des.
>
>

I clean all my used tanks with bleach. For a 75 g, I add one cup of bleach
and fill the tank. I run a airstone in the tank overnight and drain and wipe
clean the next day. If it is algae of any kind on the glass it will come out
sparkling clean. If it is mineral deposits then you may have to use vinegar
or stronger solutions to try and eliminate it. Some simply cannot be
removed. I have a glass lid on a 55 hex that I have tried everything on and
nothing worked. I'm replacing the glass.

Rick

[Harry Muscle]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> || Hi,
> ||
> || Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have
> || aquired one, and found that because the previous owner kept it only
> || half full, the bottom half of the tank is quite clean, but the top
> || half has this white film-like substance on it.
> ||
> || I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift.
> || What would be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
> ||
> || Des.
>
> Soap, water, elbow grease.... Scouring pad, if it's glass, and vinegar,
> sometimes CLR can be effective... others will have more ideas too....
>
> --
> RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> streetfighter!!! ==========================
> 2003 TRX450ES
> 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> ==========================
> ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
>
>
> is that better??
>
>

Don't ever use soap, ever, or any other detergents.

Harry

[CanadianCray]

CLR worked great for me.

--
Craig Williams
_________________________________

www.Canadiancray.tk
"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
> || Hi,
> ||
> || Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have
> || aquired one, and found that because the previous owner kept it only
> || half full, the bottom half of the tank is quite clean, but the top
> || half has this white film-like substance on it.
> ||
> || I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift.
> || What would be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
> ||
> || Des.
>
> Soap, water, elbow grease.... Scouring pad, if it's glass, and vinegar,
> sometimes CLR can be effective... others will have more ideas too....
>
> --
> RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
> streetfighter!!! ==========================
> 2003 TRX450ES
> 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
> '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
> ==========================
> ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
>
>
> is that better??
>
>

[Splitskull]

CLR+water... let it sit a day... then flush it good... I mean really
well.... then u can fill it up again with water and use some
dechlorinator.... let it sit another day.....rinse again and u r ready to
go... at least this is how it works for me

--

------Splitskull-----

"Desmond Wong" > wrote in message
...
| Hi,
|
| Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired one,
| and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the
bottom
| half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white film-like
| substance on it.
|
| I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What
would
| be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
|
| Des.
|
|

I have used rubbing alcohol for almost 35 years for cleaning tanks. Apply
with a cloth then rinse well. ALSO....non iodized salt works good
also....lightly dampened....Thanks
"Desmond Wong" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired one,
> and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the
bottom
> half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white film-like
> substance on it.
>
> I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What
would
> be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
>
> Des.
>
>

[The Outcaste]

On Sat, 15 May 2004 00:45:41 +1000, "Desmond Wong"
> bubbled forth the following:

>Hi,
>
>Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired one,
>and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the bottom
>half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white film-like
>substance on it.
>
>I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What would
>be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
>
>Des.
>
I had a similar problem with an old MetaFrame 30 Long (44L x 14H x
13W) a friend gave me. Only 1/3 full of water for most of a year, the
top 2/3 of the tank was very crusty. Most of it scraped off with a
razor blade, but the last bit of film/cloudiness wouldn't go away.
Vinegar, CLR, hydrochloric acid, sulfamic acid, nothing would remove
the film/cloudiness. There were also a few deep scratches where
gravel had been scraped up the side of the glass, and numerous faint
scratches, the kind that are visible, but can't be felt

I finally realized that the mineral deposits had actually etched the
glass. I went to the local rock shop, bought a small bag of cerium
oxide(have 90% left), an 8" leather polishing pad (I would recommend
felt rather than leather), and a tube of feathering disk adhesive to
stick the (trimmed) pad to a 5" backing plate for my electric drill.
About $15 total, $8 of that was for the tube of adhesive (big enough
to do a couple hundred tanks at least, but I can use for woodworking
projects, so it will get used).

Mix up a paste of the cerium oxide with water about the viscosity of
hot maple syrup, and polish away, keeping the surface wet with a spray
bottle. The cut off pieces of the pad can be wrapped around a stick or
used with a dremel tool to get in the corners.

It took about 45 minutes to remove the cloudiness from the 4 side
panels, as well as polishing out the small scratches, and another 20
minutes doing the outside glass and the stainless steel frame.

The deeper scratches didn't come out, but the edges were smoothed out
so they don't catch the light as much making them less visible. I
would need to start with a much coarser grinding compound to remove
them -- they weren't bad enough to spend the time grinding out, plus
it would weaken the glass more than just leaving them as is.

Rinse the tank very thoroughly, then wipe it down with damp paper
towels to remove the cerium oxide. I don't think it would be poisonous
to the fish, but it is a very fine powder that if left in the water
could irritate the fish's gills.

The end result? When the guy who gave me the tank saw it after I had
set it up, his first question was "How much did it cost to replace the
glass?" It actually came out better than I thought it would.

HTH

Jerry

[Dick]

On Sat, 15 May 2004 00:45:41 +1000, "Desmond Wong"
> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired one,
>and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the bottom
>half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white film-like
>substance on it.
>
>I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What would
>be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
>
>Des.
>
As you can tell from all the suggestions, cleaning mineral deposits is
major problem. I have tried most of the ideas, some times they work
and in other cases not.

Is the film noticeable when the tank is full? I have a line along the
top that I see when I change water, but I can't see it when water
covers it up.

[xxxxxx]

CLR

"Desmond Wong" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired one,
> and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the
bottom
> half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white film-like
> substance on it.
>
> I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What
would
> be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
>
> Des.
>
>

[NetMax]

"Desmond Wong" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired
one,
> and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the
bottom
> half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white
film-like
> substance on it.
>
> I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What
would
> be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
>
> Des.

Wow, you sure got a lot of good responses. This must be a topic everyone
has lots of experience to share. With so many responses, I might just
stop posting my comments, - not ;~). In case anything was missed, here
is an old reprint of a post I wrote on the topic:

Depending on the chemical composition of the stain, and the quantity of
build-up, you might find vinegar useless, but it's a good first choice as
it is easy to deal with residues. There is a wide variety of techniques,
some more appropriate for glass tops, rather than to try using inside the
aquarium as their toxicity increases with their cleaning power. Other
methods I have read of besides vinegar (white distilled works best), are
salt (kosher salt more abrasive on stains), lime Kool-Aid? (half the
water & no sugar), dish soap (contains acid) with nylon scouring pads,
bleach, CLR, lime away, tile cleaners, #000 (fine) steel wool, razor
blades, sulphamic acid, and muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid). A search
on the internet will also turn up an assortment of miracle products which
will peel the paint off your barn door at 20 metres ;~)

Note that all the mechanical methods (razor blades, steel wool, scouring
pads) pose some risk of abrasion, if not from what you are holding, then
from the deposits you are trying to remove if they get trapped in
between.

The more aggressive the solvent used, the more hazardous the work. If
you go as far as using strong acids, it's prudent to be prepared for any
spillage. One poster suggested baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to
neutralize any spills, "if you dissolve a couple of cups in a gallon of
water you can immediately neutralize spills on your equipment or skin ;
straight powdered baking soda may react violently with concentrated acid
and splatter you or nearby friends". Wear glasses, please, goggles if
you have them. From vinegar to muriatic acid, none work instantly, so be
prepared to let them soak as necessary.

Many of these suggested treatments were pulled from the Google usenet
archives (I personally have no special tricks, and I haven't tried all
these treatments). Another option for top plates with hard water stains,
is to drop them off at a glass supplier. He will measure and provide you
with duplicates. Use a little clear silicone & rubber handled clamps to
fasten the retaining edges back on. The glass is typically quite thin,
so the material is not very expensive.

cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

[RedForeman ©®]

|| "RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
||||| Hi,
|||||
||||| Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have
||||| aquired one, and found that because the previous owner kept it
||||| only half full, the bottom half of the tank is quite clean, but
||||| the top half has this white film-like substance on it.
|||||
||||| I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift.
||||| What would be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
|||||
||||| Des.
|||
||| Soap, water, elbow grease.... Scouring pad, if it's glass, and
||| vinegar, sometimes CLR can be effective... others will have more
||| ideas too....
|||
||| --
||| RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
||| streetfighter!!! ==========================
||| 2003 TRX450ES
||| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
||| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
||| ==========================
||| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
|||
|||
||| is that better??
|||
|||
||
|| Don't ever use soap, ever, or any other detergents.
||
|| Harry

Funny, CLR passed your radar, but soap is a big no-no??? Funny... I can't
tell you how many ppl say this, and when I reply back to them with, "you can
use anything you want, as long as you rinse it thoroughly, it'll be ok"
they think that I'm insane or something... don't be so tight harry, soap
isn't a bad thing, it's the rinsing that'll get you, not the soap....

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[Desmond Wong]

Thanks for all the messages everyone.

I had tried vinegar to no luck with these stains... I have found out that
these marks have been there for about 2 years or so and never cleaned.

I have also used CLR with no luck, even UNDILUTED (I know, a bad thing to
do) and washed off excessively it still has left the marks on the tank, it
appears
to have made no difference to the appearance.

I will see how a very light coating of stove cleaner will go on it tomorrow,
obviously washed out very well afterward. I am preparing the tank for
probably about 2 months away, so plenty of time to do many rinses and washes
and testing before putting anything "live" in there...

Thanks again for all the responses.

"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> "Desmond Wong" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi,
> >
> > Any ideas on the best way to clean a second hand tank? I have aquired
> one,
> > and found that because the previous owner kept it only half full, the
> bottom
> > half of the tank is quite clean, but the top half has this white
> film-like
> > substance on it.
> >
> > I have tried using water and a razor blade, doesn't seem to lift. What
> would
> > be safe to use on it to rid this stuff?
> >
> > Des.
>
> Wow, you sure got a lot of good responses. This must be a topic everyone
> has lots of experience to share. With so many responses, I might just
> stop posting my comments, - not ;~). In case anything was missed, here
> is an old reprint of a post I wrote on the topic:
>
> Depending on the chemical composition of the stain, and the quantity of
> build-up, you might find vinegar useless, but it's a good first choice as
> it is easy to deal with residues. There is a wide variety of techniques,
> some more appropriate for glass tops, rather than to try using inside the
> aquarium as their toxicity increases with their cleaning power. Other
> methods I have read of besides vinegar (white distilled works best), are
> salt (kosher salt more abrasive on stains), lime Kool-Aid? (half the
> water & no sugar), dish soap (contains acid) with nylon scouring pads,
> bleach, CLR, lime away, tile cleaners, #000 (fine) steel wool, razor
> blades, sulphamic acid, and muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid). A search
> on the internet will also turn up an assortment of miracle products which
> will peel the paint off your barn door at 20 metres ;~)
>
> Note that all the mechanical methods (razor blades, steel wool, scouring
> pads) pose some risk of abrasion, if not from what you are holding, then
> from the deposits you are trying to remove if they get trapped in
> between.
>
> The more aggressive the solvent used, the more hazardous the work. If
> you go as far as using strong acids, it's prudent to be prepared for any
> spillage. One poster suggested baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to
> neutralize any spills, "if you dissolve a couple of cups in a gallon of
> water you can immediately neutralize spills on your equipment or skin ;
> straight powdered baking soda may react violently with concentrated acid
> and splatter you or nearby friends". Wear glasses, please, goggles if
> you have them. From vinegar to muriatic acid, none work instantly, so be
> prepared to let them soak as necessary.
>
> Many of these suggested treatments were pulled from the Google usenet
> archives (I personally have no special tricks, and I haven't tried all
> these treatments). Another option for top plates with hard water stains,
> is to drop them off at a glass supplier. He will measure and provide you
> with duplicates. Use a little clear silicone & rubber handled clamps to
> fasten the retaining edges back on. The glass is typically quite thin,
> so the material is not very expensive.
>
> cheers
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

[Ali Day]

> I will see how a very light coating of stove cleaner will go on it
tomorrow,
> obviously washed out very well afterward. I am preparing the tank for
> probably about 2 months away, so plenty of time to do many rinses and
washes
> and testing before putting anything "live" in there...

Just be careful with the oven cleaner as some of them will perish rubber,
and (I don't know) maybe silicon.

Cheers

A

[The Outcaste]

On Tue, 18 May 2004 20:19:11 +1000, "Desmond Wong"
> bubbled forth the following:

>Thanks for all the messages everyone.
>
>I had tried vinegar to no luck with these stains... I have found out that
>these marks have been there for about 2 years or so and never cleaned.
>
>I have also used CLR with no luck, even UNDILUTED (I know, a bad thing to
>do) and washed off excessively it still has left the marks on the tank, it
>appears
>to have made no difference to the appearance.
>
>I will see how a very light coating of stove cleaner will go on it tomorrow,
>obviously washed out very well afterward. I am preparing the tank for
>probably about 2 months away, so plenty of time to do many rinses and washes
>and testing before putting anything "live" in there...
>
>Thanks again for all the responses.

It's sounding like the glass has actually been etched by the deposits,
especially if they were left on the glass for long periods of time. I
suspect polishing will be the only way to remove them, but maybe the
oven cleaner will work. Definitely let us all know if it does.

The following technical note from Pilkington describes several
processes that can stain glass. While intended for window glass, the
following paragraph from page 2 is applicable to aquariums:

>"Even water alone can be damage the surface of glass. Certain types of hard water, for instance, may
>leave harmful deposits if allowed to dry on glass surfaces. These deposits can be formed in washing or
>rinsing the glass, or accidentally by the evaporation of water from such sources as lawn sprinklers. It is
>difficult or impossible to remove such residue without excessive polishing."

The complete article is here:

http://www.pilkington.com/resources/ats104swprotectingglass20020306.pdf


Good luck!

Jerry

[Mudbunny]

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...

> The more aggressive the solvent used, the more hazardous the work. If
> you go as far as using strong acids, it's prudent to be prepared for any
> spillage. One poster suggested baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to
> neutralize any spills, "if you dissolve a couple of cups in a gallon of
> water you can immediately neutralize spills on your equipment or skin ;
> straight powdered baking soda may react violently with concentrated acid
> and splatter you or nearby friends". Wear glasses, please, goggles if
> you have them. From vinegar to muriatic acid, none work instantly, so be
> prepared to let them soak as necessary.

Hey there NetMax. I just have a comment on the baking soda and
concentrated acids. While I don't know much about fish and aquariums
(but am learning through lurking), I know quite a bit about acids,
bases and neutralizing them. In addition to the safety equipment you
mention, gloves (rubber wash gloves are great) and a coat or long
button up shirt/smock that you can rip off rapidly if necessary are
other safety equipment I would recommend.

It is perfectly safe to use baking soda in powdered form with all
acids. I know because while working on my PhD in Chemistry, I have
used it at one time or another on most acids. However, that being
said, diluted baking soda and water is useful in certain situations,
as is the powdered form.

Powdered baking soda is useful as it will literally soak up the acid
like a sponge. As long as it is soaking up acid, it will continue to
clump together. Once all the acid is absorbed, it should stay as a
powder. Pouring it on the acid must be done with caution. Shake it on
gently, starting at the outside of the spill and circling it (like a
moat) and working towards the inside. This will prevent the acid from
getting away. Don't be afraid to use too much. It can't hurt. Let it
soak for a while, and don't be afraid to use something (plastic
preferably) to mix it up and stir the slurry around to ensure all of
the acid has been neutralized.

A solution is useful if you happen to get it on your hand or other
body part (OBP) that can be immersed. Dunk your hand/OBP and make your
way to the sink/shower and rinse in cold water. For at least 15
minutes. You may freeze your hand, but keep rinsing.

And always go see a doctor if you have any doubts at all about the
severity of the burn. Also, if you have a choice, don't do this if you
are all alone at home. Depending on the strength of the acid or the
location of the burn, it can hurt. A lot!! Enough to make it very
difficult to do anything on your own.

Marcel

[NetMax]

"Mudbunny" > wrote in message
om...
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > The more aggressive the solvent used, the more hazardous the work.
If
> > you go as far as using strong acids, it's prudent to be prepared for
any
> > spillage. One poster suggested baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to
> > neutralize any spills, "if you dissolve a couple of cups in a gallon
of
> > water you can immediately neutralize spills on your equipment or skin
;
> > straight powdered baking soda may react violently with concentrated
acid
> > and splatter you or nearby friends". Wear glasses, please, goggles
if
> > you have them. From vinegar to muriatic acid, none work instantly,
so be
> > prepared to let them soak as necessary.
>
> Hey there NetMax. I just have a comment on the baking soda and
> concentrated acids. While I don't know much about fish and aquariums
> (but am learning through lurking), I know quite a bit about acids,
> bases and neutralizing them. In addition to the safety equipment you
> mention, gloves (rubber wash gloves are great) and a coat or long
> button up shirt/smock that you can rip off rapidly if necessary are
> other safety equipment I would recommend.
>
> It is perfectly safe to use baking soda in powdered form with all
> acids. I know because while working on my PhD in Chemistry, I have
> used it at one time or another on most acids. However, that being
> said, diluted baking soda and water is useful in certain situations,
> as is the powdered form.
>
> Powdered baking soda is useful as it will literally soak up the acid
> like a sponge. As long as it is soaking up acid, it will continue to
> clump together. Once all the acid is absorbed, it should stay as a
> powder. Pouring it on the acid must be done with caution. Shake it on
> gently, starting at the outside of the spill and circling it (like a
> moat) and working towards the inside. This will prevent the acid from
> getting away. Don't be afraid to use too much. It can't hurt. Let it
> soak for a while, and don't be afraid to use something (plastic
> preferably) to mix it up and stir the slurry around to ensure all of
> the acid has been neutralized.
>
> A solution is useful if you happen to get it on your hand or other
> body part (OBP) that can be immersed. Dunk your hand/OBP and make your
> way to the sink/shower and rinse in cold water. For at least 15
> minutes. You may freeze your hand, but keep rinsing.
>
> And always go see a doctor if you have any doubts at all about the
> severity of the burn. Also, if you have a choice, don't do this if you
> are all alone at home. Depending on the strength of the acid or the
> location of the burn, it can hurt. A lot!! Enough to make it very
> difficult to do anything on your own.
>
> Marcel

Thanks for the great advice Marcel. I've created a Maintenance page, and
included your advice in the 'cleaning hard water deposits' section.
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/maintenance/maintenance.shtml#hard
cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mudbunny]

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...

> Thanks for the great advice Marcel. I've created a Maintenance page, and
> included your advice in the 'cleaning hard water deposits' section.
> http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/maintenance/maintenance.shtml#hard
> cheers

Cool. Do you want the MSDSs (Material Safety Data Sheets) for the
acids?? They are what is normally given with any chemicals that you
buy from a chemical supply store. They tell you all of the physical
and chemical properties, as well as the various health hazards and
dangers. If you post a list of the chemicals that are commonly used in
care and cleaning of aquaria, I can do some research over the long
weekend and send you links/files.

Marcel

[NetMax]

"Mudbunny" > wrote in message
om...
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
>...
>
> > Thanks for the great advice Marcel. I've created a Maintenance page,
and
> > included your advice in the 'cleaning hard water deposits' section.
> > http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/maintenance/maintenance.shtml#hard
> > cheers
>
> Cool. Do you want the MSDSs (Material Safety Data Sheets) for the
> acids?? They are what is normally given with any chemicals that you
> buy from a chemical supply store. They tell you all of the physical
> and chemical properties, as well as the various health hazards and
> dangers. If you post a list of the chemicals that are commonly used in
> care and cleaning of aquaria, I can do some research over the long
> weekend and send you links/files.
>
> Marcel

Yup, I know MSDS. Occasionally truly useful standards are developed ;~).
Vinegar and bleach are really the only things normally used. CLR,
sulphamic acid, and muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid?) are somewhat
unusual to use. I'd be curious to see the MSDS for vinegar, bleach and
maybe CLR, but the reports themselves are usually too long & detailed for
a web site inclusion, so I'm not sure how much could be included.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Mudbunny]

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...

> Yup, I know MSDS. Occasionally truly useful standards are developed ;~).
> Vinegar and bleach are really the only things normally used. CLR,
> sulphamic acid, and muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid?) are somewhat
> unusual to use. I'd be curious to see the MSDS for vinegar, bleach and
> maybe CLR, but the reports themselves are usually too long & detailed for
> a web site inclusion, so I'm not sure how much could be included.

Well, I am bored, so I went and got the MSDS's for vinegar, CLR and
bleach. I will summarize the info below, and will send the files
themselves if you want. The summary below cuts out most of the stuff
that you need to know as a scientist and boils it down to the stuff
Joe (or Jane) fishkeeper needs to know. Vinegar I picked the first one
that I recognized. It should cover most white vinegars. CLR is
proprietaruy, so of course, they put it all in caps, and I don't have
the patience to go through and change it all.

Marcel

Vinegar (Fleischmann's)
Applies to vinegars which are 4-30% acetic acid (40-300 grain)

Emergency overview:
Vapors irritating to eyes and respiratory tract. Avoid inhalation.
Liquid may cause eye burns and permanent damage to cornea, possibly
leading to blindness. Causes skin irritation.

Inhalation: Inhalation of vapors can cause irritation to respiratory
tract. Avoid breathing vapors or mists.
Skin: Contact may cause mild injury and burns from vinegars of 10%
acetic acid and greater. Dilute solutions may cause dermatitis in some
sensitive individuals.
Eyes: Contact may cause severe burns and permanent corneal injury from
concentrated vinegars. May be followed by blindness. High vapor
concentrations may result in conjunctivitis.
Ingestion: Concentrated vinegars may cause pain, irritation and burns
in mouth, esophagus and stomach.

EMERGENCY & FIRST-AID PROCEDURES
In case of eye or skin contact, flush immediately and thoroughly with
water. Saturated clothing should be removed and washed. If vapors are
inhaled extensively, exposed person should be removed to fresh air
immediately. If swallowed, water should be consumed to dilute. Do not
induce vomiting. Do not give emetics or baking soda. Call a physician.


CLR
EYES: CAN CAUSE IRRITATION.
SKIN: NO ADVERSE EFFECTS EXPECTED DURING NORMAL USAGE, CAN CAUSE
IRRITATION AND REDNESS.
INGEST: NOT SIGNIFICANT ROUTE OF EXPOSURE, WILL CAUSE IRRITATION OF
MUCOUS
MEMBRANES, STOMACH DISCOMFORT & NAUSEA.

Emergency/First Aid Proc:
INHAL: REMOVE TO FRESH AIR.
EYE: FLUSH W/ WATER, GET MED ATTN IF IRRIT PERSISTS.
INGEST: ADMIN LUKEWARM WATER(PINT)- IF LGE QTYS INGESTED, DO NOT
INDUCE VOMITING, CALL MD.
SKIN: NO TREATMENT IS NECESSARY UNDER ORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES. IF SKIN
IS IRRIT, WASH W/SOAP & WATER. CONTACT MD IF IRRIT PERSISTS.

Protective Gloves: PLASTIC/RUBBER GLOVES.
Eye Protection: ANSI APPRVD CHEM WORKERS GOGGS(FP N).
Other Protective Equipment: NONE REQD IN NORMAL USAGE. PROD IS ACIDIC,
ALWAYS WASH HANDS AFTER USE. EMERG EYE WASH & DELUGE SHOWER


Bleach (by KIK international)
Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Chlorine gas released by contact with acids. Contact with ammonia or
urea produces nitrogen gas and chloramines. Oxygen is released on
contact with metals.

Effects of Acute Exposure:
Inhalation of vapours will irritate breathing passages and may cause
breathing difficulty.
CORROSIVE will cause sever irritation to eyes and skin. May cause
permanent damage if not treated properly. Ingestion will cause burning
sensation in mouth, throat and stomach.

Protective Equipment
Eyes: Safety Glasses

First Aid Measures
Skin: Wash with soap and water
Eyes: Flush eyes with cool running water holding eyelids apart to
ensure thorough rinsing for 15 minutes. Remove contact lenses. See a
doctor immediately.
Inhalation: Move to fresh air and restore breathing, if required.
Ingestion: DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING! Drink large amounts of water or
milk. Do not give anything by mouth to a convulsing or unconscious
person. See a doctor immediately.
General Advice: If irritation persists see a doctor immediately.

[The Outcaste]

On 25 May 2004 13:31:03 -0700, (Mudbunny) bubbled
forth the following:

>CLR is
>proprietaruy, so of course, they put it all in caps, and I don't have
>the patience to go through and change it all.
>
>Marcel

A great little freeware text editor can be found here:
http://www.notetab.com/

It can change selected text to upper, lower, invert, capitalize words
or sentences. It will also quote or unquote selected text. Also has
many useful HTML editing features.

HTH

Jerry

[Marcel Beaudoin]

The Outcaste > wrote in
:

> A great little freeware text editor can be found here:
> http://www.notetab.com/

Cool. I have downloaded it and will check it out.

Thanks!!!

Marcel