My Red Fish is Sick - I Think He is Dying!

[jstass]

Hi:

My betta fish called "Red Fish" is really sick. Everything was fine,
he has been a great pet for a year now, but this afternoon he started
going crazy and trying to jump out of his big huge tank. Then after
that he can only swim upside down or sideways. I think his poor swim
bladder is the problem. I don't know what to do to help him. Poor
thing. I looked on some sites and it says I should use fungus
remover, but I don't have any and all the stores are closed now.

Any suggestions on how to save him please post ASAP.

Thanks.

JS

[blove]

try a partial water change and be sure to use water conditioner for the
water your putting in and make sure its the same temperature. there is meds
that say they treat swim bladder, you could try those. it could be that its
his time to go tho, often times the petstores only get in adult bettas so
its hard to know exatly how old the fish is when u buy him.


"jstass" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi:
>
> My betta fish called "Red Fish" is really sick. Everything was fine,
> he has been a great pet for a year now, but this afternoon he started
> going crazy and trying to jump out of his big huge tank. Then after
> that he can only swim upside down or sideways. I think his poor swim
> bladder is the problem. I don't know what to do to help him. Poor
> thing. I looked on some sites and it says I should use fungus
> remover, but I don't have any and all the stores are closed now.
>
> Any suggestions on how to save him please post ASAP.
>
> Thanks.
>
> JS

[jstass]

Okay this is insane... Someone had posted elsewhere about using epsom
salt, raising the water temp... Did this last night and thought by
morning it would
all be over. Wake up and he is back to normal!?! Can't understand
it: as quickly as whatever it was came, it left. Think he is okay
now, or is there something else I should do?


"blove" > wrote in message >...
> try a partial water change and be sure to use water conditioner for the
> water your putting in and make sure its the same temperature. there is meds
> that say they treat swim bladder, you could try those. it could be that its
> his time to go tho, often times the petstores only get in adult bettas so
> its hard to know exatly how old the fish is when u buy him.
>
>
> "jstass" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi:
> >
> > My betta fish called "Red Fish" is really sick. Everything was fine,
> > he has been a great pet for a year now, but this afternoon he started
> > going crazy and trying to jump out of his big huge tank. Then after
> > that he can only swim upside down or sideways. I think his poor swim
> > bladder is the problem. I don't know what to do to help him. Poor
> > thing. I looked on some sites and it says I should use fungus
> > remover, but I don't have any and all the stores are closed now.
> >
> > Any suggestions on how to save him please post ASAP.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > JS

[IDzine01]

"blove" > wrote in message >...
> try a partial water change and be sure to use water conditioner for the
> water your putting in and make sure its the same temperature. there is meds
> that say they treat swim bladder, you could try those. it could be that its
> his time to go tho, often times the petstores only get in adult bettas so
> its hard to know exatly how old the fish is when u buy him.
>
>
> "jstass" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi:
> >
> > My betta fish called "Red Fish" is really sick. Everything was fine,
> > he has been a great pet for a year now, but this afternoon he started
> > going crazy and trying to jump out of his big huge tank. Then after
> > that he can only swim upside down or sideways. I think his poor swim
> > bladder is the problem. I don't know what to do to help him. Poor
> > thing. I looked on some sites and it says I should use fungus
> > remover, but I don't have any and all the stores are closed now.
> >
> > Any suggestions on how to save him please post ASAP.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > JS

To determine what is wrong with him there are several questions that
should be answered for a good diagnosis. These are general questions I
ask for all sick bettas because 9 out of 10 times you can spot a
problem from these answers. Fill in as best you can the following...

1. How long have you had your fish?
2. What is the tank size?
3. What is the water temperature?
4.What is the ammonia level? The nitrite level? The Nitrate Level?
5. What is the pH? The kh? The gh?
6. Is the tank cycled? (Referring to the Nitrogen cycle)
7. What kind of filtration are you using?
8. How much water are you changing and at what frequency?
9. Are you using any water additives? (Conditioners? Medications?) If
so, which ones?
10. What are you feeding your fish? How much are you feeding him?
11. Does he have any tank mates? Who?
12. Have any new fish been added recently? Who? When?
13. Explain any unusual symptoms.
14. Is there anything else we might need to know?

While it could be Swim Bladder Disorder (SBD) it's hard to say without
looking at the other water parameters. But I'll tell you a little
about it anyway.

Bettas are prone to SBD because of two reasons. First, bettas are
easily overfed. Most fish food containers direct users to feed what a
fish can eat in 2 minutes. This is dangerous advice for a betta.
Bettas are serious overeaters and will eat themselves until they are
ill. Their stomach is only as big as one of their eyeballs and
shouldn't be fed more than that at a time. An adult male betta can eat
about 3 bloodworms twice a day. Over eating is the main cause of SBDs.
The second contributor is dry food like pellets (betta bites,
bio-gold, ect); freeze-dried food and flake food. Even though these
foods claim to be "made for bettas," they in fact, are not. They are
not designed for a betta's short digestive track and loaded with
fillers like wheat meal, soybean meal, oatmeal, and brown rice; all
things a betta cannot digest. Compared with frozen or live foods,
which contain 89% moisture, dry foods only contain about 10% moisture
leading to digestive problems like bloating, constipation and SBD. The
recommended diet for a betta is high protein, easily digestible meat.
Some examples include, frozen bloodworms (or in gel), daphnia, tubifex
worms (frozen only), mysis shrimp, beefheart, white worms, brine
shrimp, grindal worms, live fruit flies and glassworms. Some are more
nutritious then others and your betta should be given a variety. For
instance I'll give my betta bloodworms 4 days a week, brine shrimp
once or twice and some mysis shrimp when I feel like it. This variety
insures a balanced diet.

Here's the good news. . . If your betta is in fact diagnosed with SBDs
there are some things you can do to treat it. I haven't found much
luck with medications but cutting his food intake down to the proper
amount and weaning him off dry food usually works. Some bettas will
never fully heal from SBD and will spend the rest of their days
swimming funny. As long as they can reach the surface for air they are
in no pain and should not be euthanized

Just a note to what blove said.. Yes bettas at stores are sold as
adults but are usually around a year old. (not 3 or 4) A healthy
betta can live over 5 years when kept in a clean stable environment.
Your betta is very likely still young and can recover.

[jstass]

Hey thanks for the posting. I want the best for my little guy so any
adivce
would be great.

> To determine what is wrong with him there are several questions that
> should be answered for a good diagnosis. These are general questions I
> ask for all sick bettas because 9 out of 10 times you can spot a
> problem from these answers. Fill in as best you can the following...
>
> 1. How long have you had your fish?

ONE YEAR - I am pretty sure he was pretty young when I got him too.
At the store I had the kid working there help me select a "good,
healthy one" as my first one died after a short amount of time.

> 2. What is the tank size?

SIX LITRES / 1.6 GALLONS

> 3. What is the water temperature?

It is not a heated or filtered tank. Basically, I change his water
once a week and warm up the new water to about 70-80 degrees. I also
float him in a measuring cup with the old water for about a half hour
to get him accustomed to the new temp each week.

> 4.What is the ammonia level? The nitrite level? The Nitrate Level?

I have no idea, use treated tap water.

> 5. What is the pH? The kh? The gh?

Same as (4)

> 6. Is the tank cycled? (Referring to the Nitrogen cycle)

?

> 7. What kind of filtration are you using?

> 8. How much water are you changing and at what frequency?

Basically I change all of the water once a week with the exception of
about a cup.

> 9. Are you using any water additives? (Conditioners? Medications?) If
> so, which ones?

I am using Big Al's Multi-Purpose Aquarium Water Conditioner - six
drops of the stuff seems to work best for the little guy - started off
with 13 drops at he beginning, but when I cut back to 6 he seemed to
blow more bubbles so that is what I have been using for the duration.
Basically I add six drops of Big Al's to a huge bowl, add filtered
Britta water, and leave it sit overnight before changing.

When changing the water, I take about two cups of the old water from
the tank and put it into a measuring cup. I catch Red Fish with a net
and put him in the measuring cup. I dump the old water out of the
tank. Wash the rocks in hot water and rinse the tank with lukewarm
water three times. Then the rocks go back in, and the tank is filled,
and I float the measuring cup with Red Fish in it for half hour so the
temperature change doesn't get him freaked out.


> 10. What are you feeding your fish? How much are you feeding him?

Hikari Betta Bio Gold pellets. Though a few months ago I also got
Freeze Dried Bloodworms. So generally I give him three Betta Bio Gold
Pellets once a day, (that's what the store told me to do.) I also
read that you should not feed him one day a week, so I try to do that
too. The blood worms I have used I guess as a treat. Maybe once a
week I'll throw in a few in the evening.

> 11. Does he have any tank mates? Who?

No he is a loner.

> 12. Have any new fish been added recently? Who? When?

Nope.

> 13. Explain any unusual symptoms.

He was perfectly fine, then he freaked out and couldn't swim properly.
Epsom salts and warmth seem to have cured him.

> 14. Is there anything else we might need to know?

Don't think so. Do you recommend that I start adding some aquarium
salt?

>
> While it could be Swim Bladder Disorder (SBD) it's hard to say without
> looking at the other water parameters. But I'll tell you a little
> about it anyway.
>
> Bettas are prone to SBD because of two reasons. First, bettas are
> easily overfed. Most fish food containers direct users to feed what a
> fish can eat in 2 minutes. This is dangerous advice for a betta.
> Bettas are serious overeaters and will eat themselves until they are
> ill. Their stomach is only as big as one of their eyeballs and
> shouldn't be fed more than that at a time. An adult male betta can eat
> about 3 bloodworms twice a day. Over eating is the main cause of SBDs.
> The second contributor is dry food like pellets (betta bites,
> bio-gold, ect); freeze-dried food and flake food. Even though these
> foods claim to be "made for bettas," they in fact, are not. They are
> not designed for a betta's short digestive track and loaded with
> fillers like wheat meal, soybean meal, oatmeal, and brown rice; all
> things a betta cannot digest. Compared with frozen or live foods,
> which contain 89% moisture, dry foods only contain about 10% moisture
> leading to digestive problems like bloating, constipation and SBD. The
> recommended diet for a betta is high protein, easily digestible meat.
> Some examples include, frozen bloodworms (or in gel), daphnia, tubifex
> worms (frozen only), mysis shrimp, beefheart, white worms, brine
> shrimp, grindal worms, live fruit flies and glassworms. Some are more
> nutritious then others and your betta should be given a variety. For
> instance I'll give my betta bloodworms 4 days a week, brine shrimp
> once or twice and some mysis shrimp when I feel like it. This variety
> insures a balanced diet.
>
> Here's the good news. . . If your betta is in fact diagnosed with SBDs
> there are some things you can do to treat it. I haven't found much
> luck with medications but cutting his food intake down to the proper
> amount and weaning him off dry food usually works. Some bettas will
> never fully heal from SBD and will spend the rest of their days
> swimming funny. As long as they can reach the surface for air they are
> in no pain and should not be euthanized
>
> Just a note to what blove said.. Yes bettas at stores are sold as
> adults but are usually around a year old. (not 3 or 4) A healthy
> betta can live over 5 years when kept in a clean stable environment.
> Your betta is very likely still young and can recover.

Any other recommendations would be great.

JS

[Dinky]

"jstass" > wrote in message
om...
hour

|
| > 4.What is the ammonia level? The nitrite level? The Nitrate
Level?
|
| I have no idea, use treated tap water.
|
| > 5. What is the pH? The kh? The gh?
|
| Same as (4)
|
| > 6. Is the tank cycled? (Referring to the Nitrogen cycle)
|

IMO, keeping a fish without knowing the water parameters, or what the
nitrogen cycle is, is almost criminal. It's like NASA dropping a
couple astronauts onto a newly discovered planet without looking to
see what the environment is like, or caring about their fate.

read, please: http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html#cycle

I'm not trying to insult anyone, I just feel very bad for live
creatures that are sent home with people every day without proper
info on how to care for them. I recall a parakeet my parents bought
me when I was about 9. They did not have any books on thier care,
just went with the pet store clerk's advice. It died a month later,
due to the fact that we did not provide it with grit for digestion.
Please continue to post, we *will* help.


billy

[jstass]

Hey:

Well I have tried to take extremely good care of him and have followed
all of the instructions that I was given and those that I have been
able to find on sites like this. I was told how to change and
de-chlorinate the water, but assured that following that procedure
would be all that would be required.

Well I just got him a java fern. He seems to be curiously poking
about it. Hope the poor guy likes it after his near death experience.

JS

[IDzine01]

(jstass) wrote in message >...

Hi JS. Ok, well there are a few things I can recommend to help your
betta be as healthy as he can in the future.

> Hey thanks for the posting. I want the best for my little guy so any
> adivce
> would be great.

> > 2. What is the tank size?
>
> SIX LITRES / 1.6 GALLONS

This is in the small but acceptable range for betta keeping. You may
find it much easier on you if you were to purchase a 3 to 5 gal tank
(That's about 11 - 20 liters) add a 25 watt heater and cycle it.
Testing the water parameters is vary important for all fish keepers
and cycling a tank will help you cut back on the amount of testing you
do as well as the number of water changes. Bettas do not require a
tank to be cycled but it is so much less work for you once the cycle
is complete.

> > 3. What is the water temperature?
>
> It is not a heated or filtered tank. Basically, I change his water
> once a week and warm up the new water to about 70-80 degrees. I also
> float him in a measuring cup with the old water for about a half hour
> to get him accustomed to the new temp each week.

A betta is a tropical fish and should be kept at water temperatures
between 76F and 80F. Below 75F degrees and your betta can become
lethargic and open to illnesses common at cool water temperatures such
as Ich. Water temperatures under 70F degrees can be fatal to your
fish. Water temperatures over 80F degrees are too warm and may also
stress your fish. Most importantly, your tank temperature should be
kept stable. Your tank or fish bowl should not fluctuate more then
about 2 degrees Fahrenheit (1 degree Celsius) within twenty-four
hours. Try to keep your betta away from hot spots like heaters or cold
spots like windows.

I think heating him up to 80*F once a week (even slowly) can do more
harm then good. Please consider getting a small heater for your tank.
> > 4.What is the ammonia level? The nitrite level? The Nitrate Level?
> I have no idea
> > 5. What is the pH? The kh? The gh?
> Same as (4)

Water parameters describe the general conditions and compounds of your
water. When your betta is sick, for instance, the first thing you
should look at (after his symptoms) are the water parameters. It's
necessary to observe the parameters regularly. To do this you will be
required to purchase some test kits that, through a simple procedure,
will tell you the parameters of your water. Many fish stores will test
your water for you for free when you bring them a sample. Some of
these tests will be checked daily, some every couple of days and
others weekly. Bettas are most commonly affected by ammonia and
nitrite present in their water. Here's a quick blurb on the two...

Ammonia (NH3, NH4): Ammonia is caused by fish waste in the form of
feces and urine as well as decomposing food and plant matter. It is
extremely toxic to fish, especially bettas. Prolonged exposure to even
small amounts of ammonia (<.25 ppm) can cause irreparable damage to a
bettas gills causing gill burning, weakening of the immune system, fin
damage and death. Ammonia poisoning is worsened by alkaline water (pH
above 7.0). To avoid ammonia poisoning fully cycle your tank before
adding bettas. In an uncycled tank, 100% water changes must be
performed before any ammonia becomes present. It also helps to take
out any uneaten food or decaying plant matter before it converts to
ammonia.

Nitrite (NO2): Autotrophic bacteria consume ammonia and give off
Nitrite as a waste product. Nitrite, though slightly less toxic then
ammonia, is still very dangerous to aquarium fish. It is an
intermediate compound that is formed after ammonia becomes present in
the water and before other bacteria are able to consume it. It becomes
present when aquariums are going through the Nitrogen Cycle. To avoid
(NO2) poisoning, fully cycle your tank before adding bettas. If you
choose not to cycle your tank do not use a filter. Filter media houses
nitrifying bacteria, which introduce nitrite to your tank.

We always want to keep ammonia and nitrite levels at zero in a betta
tank. The only way to know is to test. You can purchase test kits at
all fish stores. When purchasing an ammonia test kit buy the kit that
comes with two bottles and a test tube (vs. 1 bottle). The reason is
it give more accurate readings when using certain water conditioners.
I'm not familar with Al's so I'm not sure which is required. You're
safe with the two bottle kit.
> > 6. Is the tank cycled? (Referring to the Nitrogen cycle)
A cycled tank means you have successfully completed the Nitrogen Cycle
also called the Biological Cycle. As mentioned earlier, fish produce
ammonia, which cannot be detected by the human eye. Even if your tank
appears crystal clear, there can still be toxins present causing your
fish stress unless your tank is cycled. The nitrogen cycle introduces
helpful bacteria that ingest the toxins (ammonia and nitrite) and
produce, themselves, a less harmful byproduct (nitrates). Cycling can
safely be done before you add fish to your tank in a process called,
appropriately enough, Fishless Cycling or after your fish have been
added. Waiting until your fish are in the tank puts a great deal of
stress on them and many often do not survive the cycling process.
There are products such as BioSpira that allow a tank to cycle in a
very short amount of time with little or no impact on the fish. For
more information on tank cycling, visit
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/biologicalcycle/a/nitrogencycle.htm
The benefits of cycling your tank are stability and upkeep. Once the
tank has been cycled you will only have to occasionally check for
nitrates to make sure the tank is still cycled as well as complete
only 20% water changes once a week. This process allows your fish to
live in stable water conditions with little change in pH, temperature
and zero ammonia. The smaller the tank, the more difficult it is to
maintain the nitrogen cycle. Larger tanks (10 gal or above) can stay
cycled for many years but tanks smaller then 2.5 gallons are very hard
to maintain. I don't recommend cycling any tank smaller then 5
gallons.

> > 7. What kind of filtration are you using?
Since your tank is not cycled, it's good that you are NOT using a
filter. If you choose to cycle the tank you will need to get one.

> > 10. What are you feeding your fish? How much are you feeding him?
>
> Hikari Betta Bio Gold pellets. Though a few months ago I also got
> Freeze Dried Bloodworms. So generally I give him three Betta Bio Gold
> Pellets once a day, (that's what the store told me to do.) I also
> read that you should not feed him one day a week, so I try to do that
> too. The blood worms I have used I guess as a treat. Maybe once a
> week I'll throw in a few in the evening.

You are not overfeeding your betta and that's great. Some betta's are
vary sensitive to dry food and others are not. I had a betta who
couldn't even eat a single pellet without bloating. As mentioned in my
earlier post, pellets can cause bloating, constipation and swim
bladder disorders in some bettas. To avoid this you should soak all
pellets in treated water (just take a little out of the tank) for
about 10 minutes so they swell to their full size before entering the
betta's stomach. Some pellet food swells 2x or 3x their origional size
causing blockage and ultimately swim bladder disorders. Even better
yet, consider changing his diet to the more moisture rich frozen or
live foods I mentioned in my earlier post.

> Don't think so. Do you recommend that I start adding some aquarium
> salt?
I personally don't believe betta's benefit from aquarium salt. In some
cases it can do more harm then good. There are exceptions (like when
you are cycling a tank) it can help take the ease off stress caused by
nitrite. You will read that some people will disagree with me but I
believe that betta's do best when kept in clean water with only
conditioners as additives. If someone can prove to me that salt really
has benefits, I would consider using it, but until then...

Over all, your practice is pretty good. Now that you're armed with all
this knowledge I'm sure your betta will do great. Please don't be
overwhelmed with all this. Everyone learns all eventually. (hobbiests
that is) The best thing you can do is rescue a betta from a store. The
conditions there are aweful. It's pretty much a death sentence, so by
taking him home, you're saving a life. There are much better off with
you then in any store cup.

Best of luck
~ACKislander


> >
> > While it could be Swim Bladder Disorder (SBD) it's hard to say without
> > looking at the other water parameters. But I'll tell you a little
> > about it anyway.
> >
> > Bettas are prone to SBD because of two reasons. First, bettas are
> > easily overfed. Most fish food containers direct users to feed what a
> > fish can eat in 2 minutes. This is dangerous advice for a betta.
> > Bettas are serious overeaters and will eat themselves until they are
> > ill. Their stomach is only as big as one of their eyeballs and
> > shouldn't be fed more than that at a time. An adult male betta can eat
> > about 3 bloodworms twice a day. Over eating is the main cause of SBDs.
> > The second contributor is dry food like pellets (betta bites,
> > bio-gold, ect); freeze-dried food and flake food. Even though these
> > foods claim to be "made for bettas," they in fact, are not. They are
> > not designed for a betta's short digestive track and loaded with
> > fillers like wheat meal, soybean meal, oatmeal, and brown rice; all
> > things a betta cannot digest. Compared with frozen or live foods,
> > which contain 89% moisture, dry foods only contain about 10% moisture
> > leading to digestive problems like bloating, constipation and SBD. The
> > recommended diet for a betta is high protein, easily digestible meat.
> > Some examples include, frozen bloodworms (or in gel), daphnia, tubifex
> > worms (frozen only), mysis shrimp, beefheart, white worms, brine
> > shrimp, grindal worms, live fruit flies and glassworms. Some are more
> > nutritious then others and your betta should be given a variety. For
> > instance I'll give my betta bloodworms 4 days a week, brine shrimp
> > once or twice and some mysis shrimp when I feel like it. This variety
> > insures a balanced diet.
> >
> > Here's the good news. . . If your betta is in fact diagnosed with SBDs
> > there are some things you can do to treat it. I haven't found much
> > luck with medications but cutting his food intake down to the proper
> > amount and weaning him off dry food usually works. Some bettas will
> > never fully heal from SBD and will spend the rest of their days
> > swimming funny. As long as they can reach the surface for air they are
> > in no pain and should not be euthanized
> >
> > Just a note to what blove said.. Yes bettas at stores are sold as
> > adults but are usually around a year old. (not 3 or 4) A healthy
> > betta can live over 5 years when kept in a clean stable environment.
> > Your betta is very likely still young and can recover.
>
> Any other recommendations would be great.
>
> JS