is my Betta OK? (picture link?)

[Deborah Mundorff]

We have a betta fish alone in a 2.5 gallon acrylic tank from All-Glass (the
Mini Bow 2.5). It is filtered. We have had him in this tank for about 3
months.

I believe the water quality to be very good - Ammonia and Nitrite are at
zero according to our test kits.

He seems active and healthy. He interacts with us when we approach his tank,
eats eagerly when offered - (we limit it to at most 3 Betta Pellets a day -
but mix in one or two freeze dried bloodworms occasionally as a treat) and
his routine has not changed by our observation.

We have been regularly (once a week?) been performing 30-50% water changes.

My concern for our betta is that his color seems to be fading in certain
areas- I'd almost say it looks like the blue fins have been scraped off in
places along his lower side. It doesn't look fuzzy or like white dots, how I
have seen ich described. Just a loss of color with no noticeable change in
behavior. Any help would be appreciated, we are very attached and so eager
not to loose him.

Here is a picture of him:
http://nwgamefacephotos.smugmug.com/photos/122719167-L.jpg

I would appreciate any help from you !!

Thanks in advance - Deborah M

[atomweaver]

"Deborah Mundorff" > wrote in
link.net:

> We have a betta fish alone in a 2.5 gallon acrylic tank from All-Glass
> (the Mini Bow 2.5). It is filtered. We have had him in this tank for
> about 3 months.
>
> I believe the water quality to be very good - Ammonia and Nitrite are
> at zero according to our test kits.
>

....and Nitrates are low, too?

> He seems active and healthy. He interacts with us when we approach his
> tank, eats eagerly when offered - (we limit it to at most 3 Betta
> Pellets a day - but mix in one or two freeze dried bloodworms
> occasionally as a treat) and his routine has not changed by our
> observation.
>
> We have been regularly (once a week?) been performing 30-50% water
> changes.
>
> My concern for our betta is that his color seems to be fading in
> certain areas- I'd almost say it looks like the blue fins have been
> scraped off in places along his lower side. It doesn't look fuzzy or
> like white dots, how I have seen ich described. Just a loss of color
> with no noticeable change in behavior. Any help would be appreciated,
> we are very attached and so eager not to loose him.
>

Color loss is usually due to 1) stress, followed by 2) temperature or
lighting changes. You mentioned that the tank is filtered, but is it
heated? Ideal Betta temperatures are in the range of 78-82 degF. They
aren't particularly fond of frequent swings in temperature, either.
Given that its winter-time in the areas that earthlink serves as an ISP,
my guess as to your problem is that its temperature related. Day to
night variations in room temperature (72 in the day, 65 at night?) will
affect your fish, as will any temperature below the warm ideal for the
species.

A teenie little 7.5W heater can help to stabilize your temperature in a
2.5 gallon tank. They run from $10 to $14 online;

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?
q=small+aquarium+heater&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle

Even better would be a 10 gallon community tank, with a trio of lady-
betta friends, (or a few zebra danios, or warm-water corydoras, if
you're shy about "courtship rituals" ;-) and maybe 6-8 cardinal tetras.
The bigger water mass will further reduce temperature variation. Bettas
are great addtions to a community tank, so long as you avoid fin nippers
(no barbs!, no chinese algae eaters!) and anything the betta might
mistake for another betta (no other anabantids; Gourami, Paradise FIsh,
etc are a no-no).

Color recovery is variable, depending upon the individual betta. Yours
might return to its full color, or it might stay the way it is...
Feeding a fresh premium food is a minimum requirement for color
recovery. I like Hikari's betta pellets. Hope he's happy and warm,
either way.

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[IDzine01]

Generally I would totally agree with the recommendation atomweaver made
but looking at the photo I don't think this is simply a case of water
being too cool. It really does look like your Betta is loosing large
patches of scales and it isn't anything I have ever seen. That long
straight line of white is strange too... unlike typical fear stripes
you sometimes see when bettas are frightened.

I'll do a little research and see if I can find any other examples. In
the mean time, are you using tap water? If so, what water conditioners
are you using? Also, do you know the pH? Even with the great photo,
it's hard for me to tell if the scales really ARE gone or if it's just
optically deceiving and actually color loss. Do you think the scales
are gone?



atomweaver wrote:
> "Deborah Mundorff" > wrote in
> link.net:
>
> > We have a betta fish alone in a 2.5 gallon acrylic tank from All-Glass
> > (the Mini Bow 2.5). It is filtered. We have had him in this tank for
> > about 3 months.
> >
> > I believe the water quality to be very good - Ammonia and Nitrite are
> > at zero according to our test kits.
> >
>
> ...and Nitrates are low, too?
>
> > He seems active and healthy. He interacts with us when we approach his
> > tank, eats eagerly when offered - (we limit it to at most 3 Betta
> > Pellets a day - but mix in one or two freeze dried bloodworms
> > occasionally as a treat) and his routine has not changed by our
> > observation.
> >
> > We have been regularly (once a week?) been performing 30-50% water
> > changes.
> >
> > My concern for our betta is that his color seems to be fading in
> > certain areas- I'd almost say it looks like the blue fins have been
> > scraped off in places along his lower side. It doesn't look fuzzy or
> > like white dots, how I have seen ich described. Just a loss of color
> > with no noticeable change in behavior. Any help would be appreciated,
> > we are very attached and so eager not to loose him.
> >
>
> Color loss is usually due to 1) stress, followed by 2) temperature or
> lighting changes. You mentioned that the tank is filtered, but is it
> heated? Ideal Betta temperatures are in the range of 78-82 degF. They
> aren't particularly fond of frequent swings in temperature, either.
> Given that its winter-time in the areas that earthlink serves as an ISP,
> my guess as to your problem is that its temperature related. Day to
> night variations in room temperature (72 in the day, 65 at night?) will
> affect your fish, as will any temperature below the warm ideal for the
> species.
>
> A teenie little 7.5W heater can help to stabilize your temperature in a
> 2.5 gallon tank. They run from $10 to $14 online;
>
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?
> q=small+aquarium+heater&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle
>
> Even better would be a 10 gallon community tank, with a trio of lady-
> betta friends, (or a few zebra danios, or warm-water corydoras, if
> you're shy about "courtship rituals" ;-) and maybe 6-8 cardinal tetras.
> The bigger water mass will further reduce temperature variation. Bettas
> are great addtions to a community tank, so long as you avoid fin nippers
> (no barbs!, no chinese algae eaters!) and anything the betta might
> mistake for another betta (no other anabantids; Gourami, Paradise FIsh,
> etc are a no-no).
>
> Color recovery is variable, depending upon the individual betta. Yours
> might return to its full color, or it might stay the way it is...
> Feeding a fresh premium food is a minimum requirement for color
> recovery. I like Hikari's betta pellets. Hope he's happy and warm,
> either way.
>
> Regards
> DaveZ
> Atom Weaver

[Deborah Mundorff]

I will do the pH test... I'm not sure. The dip stick doesn't seem very
telling, and I have invested in a more extensive test kit that should give
me more info. I'll see what I can find out after work. Thanks so much for
the replies.
We are definately using tap water - dechlorinated as per the instructions on
the dechlorinators.
The temperature concerns are valid - in fact - we started noting this
recently after our house got very cold during a 2 day power outage. The room
this beta is in probably drops to around 68 at night... and I dont' have a
heater. I just bought one after reading the post at a local pet shop, but it
doesn't fit in this aquarium.
I'll look more closely - my impression is the scales aren't there - like I
said, seem scraped off.

"IDzine01" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Generally I would totally agree with the recommendation atomweaver made
> but looking at the photo I don't think this is simply a case of water
> being too cool. It really does look like your Betta is loosing large
> patches of scales and it isn't anything I have ever seen. That long
> straight line of white is strange too... unlike typical fear stripes
> you sometimes see when bettas are frightened.
>
> I'll do a little research and see if I can find any other examples. In
> the mean time, are you using tap water? If so, what water conditioners
> are you using? Also, do you know the pH? Even with the great photo,
> it's hard for me to tell if the scales really ARE gone or if it's just
> optically deceiving and actually color loss. Do you think the scales
> are gone?
>
>
>
> atomweaver wrote:
>> "Deborah Mundorff" > wrote in
>> link.net:
>>
>> > We have a betta fish alone in a 2.5 gallon acrylic tank from All-Glass
>> > (the Mini Bow 2.5). It is filtered. We have had him in this tank for
>> > about 3 months.
>> >
>> > I believe the water quality to be very good - Ammonia and Nitrite are
>> > at zero according to our test kits.
>> >
>>
>> ...and Nitrates are low, too?
>>
>> > He seems active and healthy. He interacts with us when we approach his
>> > tank, eats eagerly when offered - (we limit it to at most 3 Betta
>> > Pellets a day - but mix in one or two freeze dried bloodworms
>> > occasionally as a treat) and his routine has not changed by our
>> > observation.
>> >
>> > We have been regularly (once a week?) been performing 30-50% water
>> > changes.
>> >
>> > My concern for our betta is that his color seems to be fading in
>> > certain areas- I'd almost say it looks like the blue fins have been
>> > scraped off in places along his lower side. It doesn't look fuzzy or
>> > like white dots, how I have seen ich described. Just a loss of color
>> > with no noticeable change in behavior. Any help would be appreciated,
>> > we are very attached and so eager not to loose him.
>> >
>>
>> Color loss is usually due to 1) stress, followed by 2) temperature or
>> lighting changes. You mentioned that the tank is filtered, but is it
>> heated? Ideal Betta temperatures are in the range of 78-82 degF. They
>> aren't particularly fond of frequent swings in temperature, either.
>> Given that its winter-time in the areas that earthlink serves as an ISP,
>> my guess as to your problem is that its temperature related. Day to
>> night variations in room temperature (72 in the day, 65 at night?) will
>> affect your fish, as will any temperature below the warm ideal for the
>> species.
>>
>> A teenie little 7.5W heater can help to stabilize your temperature in a
>> 2.5 gallon tank. They run from $10 to $14 online;
>>
>> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?
>> q=small+aquarium+heater&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle
>>
>> Even better would be a 10 gallon community tank, with a trio of lady-
>> betta friends, (or a few zebra danios, or warm-water corydoras, if
>> you're shy about "courtship rituals" ;-) and maybe 6-8 cardinal tetras.
>> The bigger water mass will further reduce temperature variation. Bettas
>> are great addtions to a community tank, so long as you avoid fin nippers
>> (no barbs!, no chinese algae eaters!) and anything the betta might
>> mistake for another betta (no other anabantids; Gourami, Paradise FIsh,
>> etc are a no-no).
>>
>> Color recovery is variable, depending upon the individual betta. Yours
>> might return to its full color, or it might stay the way it is...
>> Feeding a fresh premium food is a minimum requirement for color
>> recovery. I like Hikari's betta pellets. Hope he's happy and warm,
>> either way.
>>
>> Regards
>> DaveZ
>> Atom Weaver
>

[IDzine01]

I guess my first thought would be to find something that is physically
harming him... something sharp he's rubbing up against... tank decor or
filter intake... tank mates that are overzealous. (You would have
mentioned that). The next thing I would consider is something parasitic
but not the usual Ich or Velvet. Various internet searches turned up
very little. Just the usual scale loss associated with breeding and
some cold-water fish scale loss which could be caused by things
different that what is harming your Betta.

You may also want to post your photo and questions on the Betta page
over at Aquamaniacs.net. They have a lot of experience with Betta
ailments and have seen some strange things. (Diversify your aquarium
opinions. ;-) )

If I think of anything I will let you know. Being a betta enthusiast
myself I am especially interested in what is causing this.

Oh, the reason I asked about your water conditioner was the idea popped
into my head that maybe he is being exposed to chloramines and while
your conditioner is only neutralizing chlorine. Or some other water
additive. I don't know though, if chloramines would do this.

Christie


Deborah Mundorff wrote:
> I will do the pH test... I'm not sure. The dip stick doesn't seem very
> telling, and I have invested in a more extensive test kit that should give
> me more info. I'll see what I can find out after work. Thanks so much for
> the replies.
> We are definately using tap water - dechlorinated as per the instructions on
> the dechlorinators.
> The temperature concerns are valid - in fact - we started noting this
> recently after our house got very cold during a 2 day power outage. The room
> this beta is in probably drops to around 68 at night... and I dont' have a
> heater. I just bought one after reading the post at a local pet shop, but it
> doesn't fit in this aquarium.
> I'll look more closely - my impression is the scales aren't there - like I
> said, seem scraped off.
>
> "IDzine01" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Generally I would totally agree with the recommendation atomweaver made
> > but looking at the photo I don't think this is simply a case of water
> > being too cool. It really does look like your Betta is loosing large
> > patches of scales and it isn't anything I have ever seen. That long
> > straight line of white is strange too... unlike typical fear stripes
> > you sometimes see when bettas are frightened.
> >
> > I'll do a little research and see if I can find any other examples. In
> > the mean time, are you using tap water? If so, what water conditioners
> > are you using? Also, do you know the pH? Even with the great photo,
> > it's hard for me to tell if the scales really ARE gone or if it's just
> > optically deceiving and actually color loss. Do you think the scales
> > are gone?
> >
> >
> >
> > atomweaver wrote:
> >> "Deborah Mundorff" > wrote in
> >> link.net:
> >>
> >> > We have a betta fish alone in a 2.5 gallon acrylic tank from All-Glass
> >> > (the Mini Bow 2.5). It is filtered. We have had him in this tank for
> >> > about 3 months.
> >> >
> >> > I believe the water quality to be very good - Ammonia and Nitrite are
> >> > at zero according to our test kits.
> >> >
> >>
> >> ...and Nitrates are low, too?
> >>
> >> > He seems active and healthy. He interacts with us when we approach his
> >> > tank, eats eagerly when offered - (we limit it to at most 3 Betta
> >> > Pellets a day - but mix in one or two freeze dried bloodworms
> >> > occasionally as a treat) and his routine has not changed by our
> >> > observation.
> >> >
> >> > We have been regularly (once a week?) been performing 30-50% water
> >> > changes.
> >> >
> >> > My concern for our betta is that his color seems to be fading in
> >> > certain areas- I'd almost say it looks like the blue fins have been
> >> > scraped off in places along his lower side. It doesn't look fuzzy or
> >> > like white dots, how I have seen ich described. Just a loss of color
> >> > with no noticeable change in behavior. Any help would be appreciated,
> >> > we are very attached and so eager not to loose him.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Color loss is usually due to 1) stress, followed by 2) temperature or
> >> lighting changes. You mentioned that the tank is filtered, but is it
> >> heated? Ideal Betta temperatures are in the range of 78-82 degF. They
> >> aren't particularly fond of frequent swings in temperature, either.
> >> Given that its winter-time in the areas that earthlink serves as an ISP,
> >> my guess as to your problem is that its temperature related. Day to
> >> night variations in room temperature (72 in the day, 65 at night?) will
> >> affect your fish, as will any temperature below the warm ideal for the
> >> species.
> >>
> >> A teenie little 7.5W heater can help to stabilize your temperature in a
> >> 2.5 gallon tank. They run from $10 to $14 online;
> >>
> >> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?
> >> q=small+aquarium+heater&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle
> >>
> >> Even better would be a 10 gallon community tank, with a trio of lady-
> >> betta friends, (or a few zebra danios, or warm-water corydoras, if
> >> you're shy about "courtship rituals" ;-) and maybe 6-8 cardinal tetras.
> >> The bigger water mass will further reduce temperature variation. Bettas
> >> are great addtions to a community tank, so long as you avoid fin nippers
> >> (no barbs!, no chinese algae eaters!) and anything the betta might
> >> mistake for another betta (no other anabantids; Gourami, Paradise FIsh,
> >> etc are a no-no).
> >>
> >> Color recovery is variable, depending upon the individual betta. Yours
> >> might return to its full color, or it might stay the way it is...
> >> Feeding a fresh premium food is a minimum requirement for color
> >> recovery. I like Hikari's betta pellets. Hope he's happy and warm,
> >> either way.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> DaveZ
> >> Atom Weaver
> >

[Zebulon]

"Deborah Mundorff" > wrote in message
link.net...
> He seems active and healthy. He interacts with us when we approach his
> tank, eats eagerly when offered - (we limit it to at most 3 Betta Pellets
> a day - but mix in one or two freeze dried bloodworms occasionally as a
> treat) and his routine has not changed by our observation.
============================
I wont comment on his missing scales but will on his food. That is not much
food unless those pellets are awfully large for a betta. I feed mine twice
a day, usually all they want each time. They live between 4 and 5 years.
Thier diet is a mix of dried "betta" food and frozen fish foods.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[IDzine01]

Three betta pellets per day is conservative but because Bettas are
prone to complications stemming from overfeeding it's usually better to
err on the side of less, particularly when feeding a diet of dry foods
like pellets. A couple of small feedings per day (two feedings of 3
pellets each) will help to avoid issues with constipation and bloating.

I agree Zebulon, her betta is a little on the thin side but I don't
think it's related to the bizarre scale loss. Potentially, it could be
the quality of food. I wonder if the food was very old and the vitamins
dissipated, if a nutritional imbalance could be to blame.


Any updates on your fish Deborah?


Zëbulon wrote:
> ============================
> I wont comment on his missing scales but will on his food. That is not much
> food unless those pellets are awfully large for a betta. I feed mine twice
> a day, usually all they want each time. They live between 4 and 5 years.
> Thier diet is a mix of dried "betta" food and frozen fish foods.

[Deborah Mundorff]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. On closer inspection of the betta (his
name is "Current") - it seems that the fins are actually there, just loosing
color. I guess this can happen as a result of temperature fluctuation, and
our house gets very cold at night. We have moved him to a 6 gallon tank and
added a heater. The first day with the new heater he was making bubble
nests, which he had never really done... This was fun to see.

I think his color may return, it is hard for me to tell but it looks a
little better. We have stepped up the water changes a bit (although I
thought we were pretty aggressive already) and are testing for amoniona
every day - ensuring it stays 0. I'm still confused on the ph levels - the
reading on my strips seem really low and I haven't quite figured out how
that relates to fish health...

On an earlier suggestion I posted the same question on the betta forum at
Aquamaniacs - almost everyone responded that he looked healthy and that
color loss may be a result of age - but to also check the temperature.

Check out Current in his new home, and thanks again - it so nice to find
you.

http://nwgamefacephotos.smugmug.com/photos/123995538-M.jpg


On 1/18/07 6:57 AM, in article
. com, "IDzine01"
> wrote:

> Three betta pellets per day is conservative but because Bettas are
> prone to complications stemming from overfeeding it's usually better to
> err on the side of less, particularly when feeding a diet of dry foods
> like pellets. A couple of small feedings per day (two feedings of 3
> pellets each) will help to avoid issues with constipation and bloating.
>
> I agree Zebulon, her betta is a little on the thin side but I don't
> think it's related to the bizarre scale loss. Potentially, it could be
> the quality of food. I wonder if the food was very old and the vitamins
> dissipated, if a nutritional imbalance could be to blame.
>
>
> Any updates on your fish Deborah?
>
>
> Zëbulon wrote:
>> ============================
>> I wont comment on his missing scales but will on his food. That is not much
>> food unless those pellets are awfully large for a betta. I feed mine twice
>> a day, usually all they want each time. They live between 4 and 5 years.
>> Thier diet is a mix of dried "betta" food and frozen fish foods.
>

[Tynk]

Deborah Mundorff wrote:
>
> I think his color may return, it is hard for me to tell but it looks a
> little better. We have stepped up the water changes a bit (although I
> thought we were pretty aggressive already) and are testing for amoniona
> every day - ensuring it stays 0. I'm still confused on the ph levels - the
> reading on my strips seem really low and I haven't quite figured out how
> that relates to fish health...
>
> On an earlier suggestion I posted the same question on the betta forum at
> Aquamaniacs - almost everyone responded that he looked healthy and that
> color loss may be a result of age - but to also check the temperature.
>

He doesn't look to me like he has the typical old age loss of coloring.
That's more of a general fading of his normal coloring. Think faded
cotton T-shirt.
What I think is happening is a simple color morph. Bettas that have
Cambodian in them (the lighter bodies where a lot of these nice colors
are coming from when mixed with regular colored Bettas) often will
change colors over time.
Also, it's very possible he has marble genes in him. This would mean
any type of color change at any time inhis life can happen.
These changes often happen in chunks and go from one color to an
entirely different color.
I happen to love marbles. They're like little surprises in each fish
that never stop.
So don't worry about him. He looks fine.
It would an entirely different story if he were missing scales in these
areas, but it never looked like it to me.

[Angie]

My betta won't eat pellets, only flakes.

[Zebulon]

"Angie" > wrote in message
...
> My betta won't eat pellets, only flakes.
>
===============
And my bettas hate flakes. They love pellets and thawed blood worms and
other goodies from the freezer. :-)
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tynk]

Angie wrote:
> My betta won't eat pellets, only flakes.

Do you feed your Betta anything other than flake?
I ask because a varied diet is best for them.
Feeding a quality flake (or pellet..however, if pellet I recommend
Hikari's Betta Bio Gold), for one feeding and then the other feeding a
frozen food such as Brine Shrimp or Bloodworms.
Again, I recommend Hikari brand on the frozen foods. They simply have a
better quality product.
Stay away from too much dried foods, such as a flake or pellet and then
freeze dried Bloodworms. It can cause constipation and a very unhappy
Betta.
Brine shrimp also has a laxative affect, so it's a good "cleaner" food
too. = )
I know my local Petsmart and Petco's sell both the cubed or flat packs
of both frozen foods in the Hikari brand.
If you only have one or a couple fish, go with the flat pack. It's much
easier to break off a tiny chunk and thaw it in some tank water and
then feed accordingly.