Newbie aquarium question

[[email protected]]

I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
suddenly found the water turned yellow!

I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
I do a complete water change?

Thanks!

[TheRock]

Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
overnight.

You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
all yet.
Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
running a
protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )


> wrote in message
ups.com...
>I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>
> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> I do a complete water change?
>
> Thanks!
>

[that *other* annoying little troll]

wrote:

> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>
> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> I do a complete water change?
>
> Thanks!
>

25 gal is small for a marine tank. Can be done, but it's trickier with
a small tank like that.

Yellow is from stuff decomposing on the live rock. This happens with new
live rock. it'll likely get a bit worse befpore it gets better.

Don't put any livestock in before this yellowing clears up. Don't fic it
by changing the water (not yet anyway) - you will screw up the cycling
if you start changing water thois soon.

You don't mention if you have a skimmer or not. Skimmers are NOT
optional, no matter what you may have heard or been told. You need one.
Get one. use it. It will pull a lot of the "yellow" out of your water.

[Wayne Sallee]

I would do water changes if it is real high in ammonia or
nitrite, in order to preserve the life on the rock.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



TheRock wrote on 1/13/2007 7:17 AM:
> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
> overnight.
>
> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
> all yet.
> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
> running a
> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>>
>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
>> I do a complete water change?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>
>

[Gill Passman]

wrote:
> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>
> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> I do a complete water change?
>
> Thanks!
>

OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or clarify
that you are following the same concepts that I am....

The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for you....once
it is cured of course and most of the die off has happened - and this
die off is generally down to shipping and the decay of stuff that died
during shipping - cured rock is a good way to go when starting up unless
you are prepared to wait for it to cure itself - and it sounds pretty
much to me that this is what you are doing....even if
unintended....uncured rock is cheaper because your LFS hasn't made the
investment of keeping it for weeks to do it themselves....

Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research, are
fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that your
nitrates and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain fish but not
inverts....so it is a choice as to what your priorities are......I want
corals, inverts and fish so have opted for all my "filtration" and
"conversions" being done by my live rock and now live sand (the sand
having been populated by the creatures in my rock)....

I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein skimmer
or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I would not be
without one....this yellow water you are talking about is what I empty
into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I see in the cup of
the skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it would be like if I
didn't have my cheap budget protein skimmer (cost me £18 plus the air
pump - £22)....it has to be said every penny spent is well worth
it...and if we got into a larger tank (or even my small tank) - if you
evaluate the cost of your corals against this one essential piece of kit
the cost works out.....the loss of your frags at between £20 and £40
pounds compared to a more expensive model still costs out well - let
alone the emotional cost and the frustration....

Gill

[Tristan]

Hmmmm. if that Sanders Picolo skimmer and yellow tinted water grosses
you out, wait until you get a "real" skimmer and get to empty out some
black green junk that would make the contents of a septic tank look
like drinking water.........


On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:21:26 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

wrote:
<<>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
<<>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
<<>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
<<>>>
<<>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
<<>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
<<>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
<<>>> I do a complete water change?
<<>>>
<<>>> Thanks!
<<>>>
<<>>
<<>>OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or clarify
<<>>that you are following the same concepts that I am....
<<>>
<<>>The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for you....once
<<>>it is cured of course and most of the die off has happened - and this
<<>>die off is generally down to shipping and the decay of stuff that died
<<>>during shipping - cured rock is a good way to go when starting up unless
<<>>you are prepared to wait for it to cure itself - and it sounds pretty
<<>>much to me that this is what you are doing....even if
<<>>unintended....uncured rock is cheaper because your LFS hasn't made the
<<>>investment of keeping it for weeks to do it themselves....
<<>>
<<>>Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research, are
<<>>fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that your
<<>>nitrates and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain fish but not
<<>>inverts....so it is a choice as to what your priorities are......I want
<<>>corals, inverts and fish so have opted for all my "filtration" and
<<>>"conversions" being done by my live rock and now live sand (the sand
<<>>having been populated by the creatures in my rock)....
<<>>
<<>>I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein skimmer
<<>>or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I would not be
<<>>without one....this yellow water you are talking about is what I empty
<<>>into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I see in the cup of
<<>>the skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it would be like if I
<<>>didn't have my cheap budget protein skimmer (cost me £18 plus the air
<<>>pump - £22)....it has to be said every penny spent is well worth
<<>>it...and if we got into a larger tank (or even my small tank) - if you
<<>>evaluate the cost of your corals against this one essential piece of kit
<<>>the cost works out.....the loss of your frags at between £20 and £40
<<>>pounds compared to a more expensive model still costs out well - let
<<>>alone the emotional cost and the frustration....
<<>>
<<>>Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

Tristan wrote:
>
> Hmmmm. if that Sanders Picolo skimmer and yellow tinted water grosses
> you out, wait until you get a "real" skimmer and get to empty out some
> black green junk that would make the contents of a septic tank look
> like drinking water.........
>
>
Hmmm....but that little Sanders Piccolo skimmer on my dinky 15 gall
along with all the gross water it gathers has totally convinced me that
a protein skimmer is an absolute essential - so in that way it has done
a great job without costing me as much as it might on a larger tank -
now I know when I go out and buy that larger tank (soon) that the
protein skimmer is an absolute essential and I won't baulk at the cost....

Gill

[Tristan]

You hear lots of folks say on some forums that a skimmer is not needed
ifyu do weekly or bi monthly water changes. I still do water changes
and run skimmers on my tanks, and water is still nasty.......I can
dump a collection cup of nasty black green skim every day or two...so
I also agree, a skimmer is an important piece of equipment. I have One
high end skimmer, but mainly swing with Coralife SUper skimmers form
most of my tanks and they are decently priced and do a good job. I
tried to bump my high end skimmer ASM ( I think its an ASM anyhow as
its been a while since i fooled with it) up against the coralife to
see how they compare but its hard to do, as having two tanks be
identical is pretty well impossible to accomplish....Heck as long as
its dark, stinks and winds up in the cup I am satisfied they are
doing what needs to be done.

You can take a sample of water form a tank that gets water changes
only and one from a tank with a skimmer and hold those samples up to
daylight . There is a distinct difference in the water between the
two. The water without a skimmer on the tank is a pronounced yellow
tint as compared to the other being clear and colorless.





..On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 01:54:32 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> Hmmmm. if that Sanders Picolo skimmer and yellow tinted water grosses
<<>>> you out, wait until you get a "real" skimmer and get to empty out some
<<>>> black green junk that would make the contents of a septic tank look
<<>>> like drinking water.........
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>Hmmm....but that little Sanders Piccolo skimmer on my dinky 15 gall
<<>>along with all the gross water it gathers has totally convinced me that
<<>>a protein skimmer is an absolute essential - so in that way it has done
<<>>a great job without costing me as much as it might on a larger tank -
<<>>now I know when I go out and buy that larger tank (soon) that the
<<>>protein skimmer is an absolute essential and I won't baulk at the cost....
<<>>
<<>>Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

25 gal is not small for a marine tank. I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
just fine. I even have a 1 quart PICO with a yasha hasha goby and
pistol shrimp ni it loaded with zoos and shrooms doing just fine. I
have yet another tiny pico tank made with a brandy snifter (less than
a quart) with a panda goby in it doing just fine for over a year now.
If temps can be managed properly, they are not any harder than any
other tank.





On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:25:44 -0500, that *other* annoying little troll
> wrote:

wrote:
<<>>
<<>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
<<>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
<<>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
<<>>>
<<>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
<<>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
<<>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
<<>>> I do a complete water change?
<<>>>
<<>>> Thanks!
<<>>>
<<>>
<<>> 25 gal is small for a marine tank. Can be done, but it's trickier with
<<>>a small tank like that.
<<>>
<<>>Yellow is from stuff decomposing on the live rock. This happens with new
<<>>live rock. it'll likely get a bit worse befpore it gets better.
<<>>
<<>>Don't put any livestock in before this yellowing clears up. Don't fic it
<<>>by changing the water (not yet anyway) - you will screw up the cycling
<<>>if you start changing water thois soon.
<<>>
<<>>You don't mention if you have a skimmer or not. Skimmers are NOT
<<>>optional, no matter what you may have heard or been told. You need one.
<<>>Get one. use it. It will pull a lot of the "yellow" out of your water.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Bo©aton]

Thats just so precious to beat on old women eh hero boy Roy "tristan" hauer?
How bout you beat on old man in wheelchair eh? Why a helpless old lady, eh?
Troll me here Tristan scumbag.

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> 25 gal is not small for a marine tank. I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
> just fine. I even have a 1 quart PICO with a yasha hasha goby and
> pistol shrimp ni it loaded with zoos and shrooms doing just fine. I
> have yet another tiny pico tank made with a brandy snifter (less than
> a quart) with a panda goby in it doing just fine for over a year now.
> If temps can be managed properly, they are not any harder than any
> other tank.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:25:44 -0500, that *other* annoying little troll
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the
> substate
> <<>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> <<>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls..
> What
> <<>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> <<>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think?
> Shall
> <<>>> I do a complete water change?
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Thanks!
> <<>>>
> <<>>
> <<>> 25 gal is small for a marine tank. Can be done, but it's trickier
> with
> <<>>a small tank like that.
> <<>>
> <<>>Yellow is from stuff decomposing on the live rock. This happens with
> new
> <<>>live rock. it'll likely get a bit worse befpore it gets better.
> <<>>
> <<>>Don't put any livestock in before this yellowing clears up. Don't fic
> it
> <<>>by changing the water (not yet anyway) - you will screw up the cycling
> <<>>if you start changing water thois soon.
> <<>>
> <<>>You don't mention if you have a skimmer or not. Skimmers are NOT
> <<>>optional, no matter what you may have heard or been told. You need
> one.
> <<>>Get one. use it. It will pull a lot of the "yellow" out of your water.
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Bo©aton]

Still trolling old ladies I see. Still harass and still use the filthy
language eh? Is your own medicine tasty? So tasty... gets you the aattention
you crave so much........ you are poor asshole escuse for a man.


"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>

so you can do what you always accuse others of doing. trashing and
forgeing headers? Your a loser Carol, a real bona fide loser
rpm = bye bye carol.


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Bo©aton]

Tristan wrote: much toxic rubbish and vomit it in rec.ponds wher ehe hunts
old ladies. Roy "Tristan" Hauerdon't like his own medicine.Ah
CArol.......looks like there is some retailiation against yu for
your mess your making. Folks are only going to take this crap you
create and distribute for so long without payback...Seems its
started........Sure can not blame a darn thing on any0one but your
self and your socks can yu carol? Nice try at disruption of the
various groups but you stlil get a failing grade......your days are
numbered so yu may as well go allout and enjoy doing what you do best
as soon it will be no more. You'l lbe here all by yourself and
others willmove on with a different nym and let you set here being the
the dumbass that you are.
bye bye CArol bye bye carol........the light on the center stage is
getting close to being turned off.

Ah TRistan.......looks like there is some retailiation against yu for
your mess your making. Folks are only going to take this crap you
create and distribute for so long without payback...Seems its
started........Sure can not blame a darn thing on any0one but your
self and your socks can yu Roy tristan Hauer? Nice try at disruption
of the
various groups but you stlil get a failing grade......your days are
numbered so yu may as well go allout and enjoy doing what you do best
as soon it will be no more. You'l lbe here all by yourself and
others willmove on with a different nym and let you set here being the
the dumbass that you are.
bye bye Roy Tristan Hauer bye bye Tristan........the light on the
center stage is getting close to being turned off.

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The House of Santana©
The Santana Institute of Usenet Anonymity®
and Sock Puppetry.
Supporters of Your Local Newsgroups (SLN, Ltd.)
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Tristan wrote: BITCH SLAP!

As Roy "Tristan" Asshole Hauer yet again trashs more usenet groups. I
got enough cold beer on
hand to carry me through his episode of tolling so I do not have to
leave the scene.

You go Tristan you go boy...maybe you can win yuu a spot on "The
View" with Rosie..

Sponsored in part by:
The House of Santana©
The Santana Institute of Usenet Anonymity®
and Sock Puppetry.
Supporters of Your Local Newsgroups (SLN, Ltd.)
The A. L. Santana Plonk Foundation©

and viewers like you.

-= Have Gun, Will Travel. =-

Tristan wrote:
"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

BITCH SLAP!

>
>
> Staring Roy "TRistan" Asshole Hauer ......the star of the reknowned
"Roy does Carpy"
> vidieo with Antonio Santana of Usenet Asshole fame.

Sponsored in part by:
The House of Santana©
The Santana Institute of Usenet Anonymity®
and Sock Puppetry.
Supporters of Your Local Newsgroups (SLN, Ltd.)
The A. L. Santana Plonk Foundation©

and viewers like you.

-= Have Gun, Will Travel. =-

Tristan wrote:
>
"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

BITCH SLAP racist bigot !
>
>
> Oh, goodie a place for CArol to go to once rec.ponds.moderated is up
> and all the other aquaia groups follow suit and go moderated, at least
> Carol will not be a homeless yankee carpet bagger like she was when
> her last hubby dumped her along I-40

Sponsored in part by:
The House of Santana©
The Santana Institute of Usenet Anonymity®
and Sock Puppetry.
Supporters of Your Local Newsgroups (SLN, Ltd.)
The A. L. Santana Plonk Foundation©

and viewers like you.

-= Have Gun, Will Travel. =-

Tristan wrote:

BITCH SLAP! Troll and be trolled Roy "Tristan" Hauer.
>
"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Staring Roy Hauer......the star of the reknowned "Roy does Carpy"
> vidieo with net stalker Antonio Santana of Usenet Asshole fame.

[KurtG]

Tristan wrote:
> I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
> just fine.


Hi Tristan,

Are all your tanks isolated?

--Kurt

Tristan wrote:
"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

> Thats just so precious BITCH SLAP!

How's the medicine going down Roy "tristan" Hauer?


Sponsored in part by:
The House of Santana©
The Santana Institute of Usenet Anonymity®
and Sock Puppetry.
Supporters of Your Local Newsgroups (SLN, Ltd.)
The A. L. Santana Plonk Foundation©

and viewers like you.

-= Trailers For Sale Or Rent. =-

[Bo©aton]

What a disgrace that Roy "Tristan" Hauer tries to pimp someone to make money
maybe? The same old lady he stalks on other groups like religious and pond
froups?

"Snapps" > wrote in message news:WPQph.134$To.19@bigfe9...
Do a Google search for Roy Hauer. He was away for a spell. He lost his isp
for trying to pimp a regular here or somthing illegal like that. He came
back meaner an crazier then a ****house rat. Never posts anything on
topic.Your wise to keep your identity hidden.

[Tristan]

Some are isolated from the other setups but I do have 6 on one system
and 3 on another that utilize a common sump/fuge

All separate picos however do have as large a Aqua Clear filter HOB
type on them for additional capacity and toprovide a modest fuge...and
a place for adding carbon is nbecessary and a pllace for the heaters.
Last count is a total of 11 PICO (2 gal or less) tanks . They make
better night nlights etc than typical night lights do, plus they give
me a place ot create new micro reefs when I frag corals etc. After
they get size and growth to them I incorporate them into the larger
tanks, and start again in the Pico tanks.

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:09:57 -0500, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>> I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
<<>>> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
<<>>> just fine.
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>Hi Tristan,
<<>>
<<>>Are all your tanks isolated?
<<>>
<<>>--Kurt



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[TheRock]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>>
>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
>> I do a complete water change?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>
> OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or clarify that
> you are following the same concepts that I am....
>
> The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for you....once it
> is cured of course and most of the die off has happened - and this die off
> is generally down to shipping and the decay of stuff that died during
> shipping - cured rock is a good way to go when starting up unless you are
> prepared to wait for it to cure itself - and it sounds pretty much to me
> that this is what you are doing....even if unintended....uncured rock is
> cheaper because your LFS hasn't made the investment of keeping it for
> weeks to do it themselves....
>
> Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research, are
> fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that your nitrates
> and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain fish but not
> inverts....so it is a choice as to what your priorities are......I want
> corals, inverts and fish so have opted for all my "filtration" and
> "conversions" being done by my live rock and now live sand (the sand
> having been populated by the creatures in my rock)....
>
> I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein skimmer
> or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I would not be
> without one....this yellow water you are talking about is what I empty
> into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I see in the cup of the
> skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it would be like if I didn't have
> my cheap budget protein skimmer (cost me £18 plus the air pump -
> £22)....it has to be said every penny spent is well worth it...and if we
> got into a larger tank (or even my small tank) - if you evaluate the cost
> of your corals against this one essential piece of kit the cost works
> out.....the loss of your frags at between £20 and £40 pounds compared to a
> more expensive model still costs out well - let alone the emotional cost
> and the frustration....
>
> Gill


Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
cured rock.
As soon as you remove it from the ocean everything on it and in it starts to
die.
It's is possible to get rock from a LFS that has been marinating in water
and you can get it home quickly. But still, live rock doesn't come with all
the goodies
that it would have as it was in the ocean.

GET YOURSELF A SKIMMER MAN !!! : )

[TheRock]

Isn't high ammonia part of the cycle ?
Don't you need it to cycle ? If you dilute the tank with water aren't you
just
removing bacteria that moves the cycle along and prolonging cycle time ?

I only ask because I didn't do it that way and I had plenty of pods and
worms
after the cycle.


"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
link.net...
>I would do water changes if it is real high in ammonia or nitrite, in order
>to preserve the life on the rock.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
>
> TheRock wrote on 1/13/2007 7:17 AM:
>> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
>> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
>> overnight.
>>
>> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
>> all yet.
>> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
>> running a
>> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>>>
>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
>>> I do a complete water change?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>

[Tristan]

There is lots of debate on what is cured or cycled rock as different
places use these terms interchangebly. My lfs hewre sells rock that
is fully cured........in other words if its pulled from their tank,
and placed in water, and carried homoe and placed in your tank with
little to no exposure or fooling aorund there would not be enough of
die off to make it noticeable. They sell only fully cured/cycled rock
that is ready to place in the tank (within a reasonabale time frame )
and within a day or two its more than safe to start adding fish.

I have cycled lots of tanks already, and do find that when ammonia and
nitrite levels get too high stuff on the rock and in the rock starts
to die as well. So I try and keep my ammonia and nitrite levels as as
possible (Ammonia no higher than say 1 or 1.5) . It may take a bit
longer but I get much more diverse critters that survive the cycle
times.

The rock the lFS here sells is some nice rock, and lots of goodies
come on it..Its not unusual to find small tiny polyps of yuma or other
shrooms.....as well as sea squirts, sponge and dusters.......brittle
serpent stars etc.

I much prefer to take longer in getting a tank cycled than do it
faster with aditivies like dead shrimp etc or usuing live fish. It
will still cycle, and also keep my ammonia and nitrite levels low. I
do water changes during cycle so levels are not high, and I run a
skimmer most of the times.



On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:09:25 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
<<>>> wrote:
<<>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
<<>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
<<>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
<<>>>>
<<>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
<<>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
<<>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
<<>>>> I do a complete water change?
<<>>>>
<<>>>> Thanks!
<<>>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or clarify that
<<>>> you are following the same concepts that I am....
<<>>>
<<>>> The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for you....once it
<<>>> is cured of course and most of the die off has happened - and this die off
<<>>> is generally down to shipping and the decay of stuff that died during
<<>>> shipping - cured rock is a good way to go when starting up unless you are
<<>>> prepared to wait for it to cure itself - and it sounds pretty much to me
<<>>> that this is what you are doing....even if unintended....uncured rock is
<<>>> cheaper because your LFS hasn't made the investment of keeping it for
<<>>> weeks to do it themselves....
<<>>>
<<>>> Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research, are
<<>>> fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that your nitrates
<<>>> and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain fish but not
<<>>> inverts....so it is a choice as to what your priorities are......I want
<<>>> corals, inverts and fish so have opted for all my "filtration" and
<<>>> "conversions" being done by my live rock and now live sand (the sand
<<>>> having been populated by the creatures in my rock)....
<<>>>
<<>>> I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein skimmer
<<>>> or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I would not be
<<>>> without one....this yellow water you are talking about is what I empty
<<>>> into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I see in the cup of the
<<>>> skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it would be like if I didn't have
<<>>> my cheap budget protein skimmer (cost me £18 plus the air pump -
<<>>> £22)....it has to be said every penny spent is well worth it...and if we
<<>>> got into a larger tank (or even my small tank) - if you evaluate the cost
<<>>> of your corals against this one essential piece of kit the cost works
<<>>> out.....the loss of your frags at between £20 and £40 pounds compared to a
<<>>> more expensive model still costs out well - let alone the emotional cost
<<>>> and the frustration....
<<>>>
<<>>> Gill
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
<<>>cured rock.
<<>>As soon as you remove it from the ocean everything on it and in it starts to
<<>>die.
<<>>It's is possible to get rock from a LFS that has been marinating in water
<<>>and you can get it home quickly. But still, live rock doesn't come with all
<<>>the goodies
<<>>that it would have as it was in the ocean.
<<>>
<<>>GET YOURSELF A SKIMMER MAN !!! : )
<<>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[George Patterson]

TheRock wrote:
> Isn't high ammonia part of the cycle ?

Sort of. Ammonia serves as food for the first of the nitrifying bacteria you
want to develop.

> Don't you need it to cycle ? If you dilute the tank with water aren't you
> just
> removing bacteria that moves the cycle along and prolonging cycle time ?

No, you aren't removing bacteria; for the most part, they live in the substrate
and live rock. You're removing ammonia. The fact that there is a high ammonia
level is proof that you don't have a large enough bacteria population to eat it
all. If you leave the levels as they are, the population will gradually grow
large enough to transform all of the ammonia to nitrites. Then the population
will starve and decline to whatever level can survive on the ammonia normally
introduced as urine and decay products.

If you run a 50% water change, you will remove half the ammonia. That's still
more than the existing bacteria population can handle, but the population won't
have to grow as much to reach a level large enough to transform all of the
ammonia to nitrites. Your tank will actually cycle more rapidly.

The same is true of nitrites, when the cycle reaches that point.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[George Patterson]

TheRock wrote:

> Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
> cured rock.

Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until nothing dies
anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process typically involves
low light levels, lots of circulation, and large water changes.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[Tristan]

Yep your assumption is right.


On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:11:34 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

<<>>George Patterson wrote:
<<>>
<<>>> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until nothing
<<>>> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process
<<>>> typically involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large
<<>>> water changes.
<<>>>
<<>>> George Patterson
<<>>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
<<>>
<<>>This is my understanding of "cured live rock" as well.....one of the
<<>>guys at the lfs was chatting to me about the latest batch of LR that
<<>>they had got in and how they were needing to empty the cup on the
<<>>Protein Skimmer multiple times a day when usually, after the die off it
<<>>would be daily at most....
<<>>
<<>>I'm guessing from my experience that there was also a certain degree of
<<>>die off when I put the rock into my little 15 gall tank (but much less
<<>>than would have happened if the rock hadn't been "cured") - certainly I
<<>>was getting stuff in the cup of the Protein Skimmer without having
<<>>anything in the tank other than the LR but this was minimal compared to
<<>>what I get now with fish, corals and inverts in there....
<<>>
<<>>Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

George Patterson wrote:

> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until nothing
> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process
> typically involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large
> water changes.
>
> George Patterson
> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

This is my understanding of "cured live rock" as well.....one of the
guys at the lfs was chatting to me about the latest batch of LR that
they had got in and how they were needing to empty the cup on the
Protein Skimmer multiple times a day when usually, after the die off it
would be daily at most....

I'm guessing from my experience that there was also a certain degree of
die off when I put the rock into my little 15 gall tank (but much less
than would have happened if the rock hadn't been "cured") - certainly I
was getting stuff in the cup of the Protein Skimmer without having
anything in the tank other than the LR but this was minimal compared to
what I get now with fish, corals and inverts in there....

Gill

[Tristan]

No such thing as Internet Cured live rock once it is pulled and packed
and in transit., it once again becomes rock in need of curing. Closet
yur gonna come to actual real cured live rock is harvest it and place
in yur own tank imediately or but it cured at lfs and carry it home in
a bucket of SW and place in the tank with little to no exposure to
air or temp variations.....How fast it will go downhill is anyones
guess as it all depends on how much and what is on it to begin with.
Same for that wet bagged live sand that is sold. HOw much good do you
really think that stuff serves. I see bags of it that are expired, or
laying on a stores display shelf in direct sunlight and hot/warm, it
sets for days on end in a hot truck while being transported, or in a
cold truck during winter.......Best bet on that sand is buy cheaper
dry pack sand and get a cup of live sand from someones established
tank or add live rock and let it seed the sand with bacteria. Thats
all the bagged sand is capable of having anyhow, and that can come
from good live rock anyhow....

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:40:45 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:

<<>>I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
<<>>And to further clarify...internet cured rock.
<<>>
<<>>Especially when they ship it in wet newspapers.
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
<<>>news:9Ntqh.386$AG6.142@trnddc06...
<<>>> TheRock wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>>> Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
<<>>>> cured rock.
<<>>>
<<>>> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until nothing
<<>>> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process typically
<<>>> involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large water changes.
<<>>>
<<>>> George Patterson
<<>>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
<<>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[TheRock]

I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
And to further clarify...internet cured rock.

Especially when they ship it in wet newspapers.


"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:9Ntqh.386$AG6.142@trnddc06...
> TheRock wrote:
>
>> Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
>> cured rock.
>
> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until nothing
> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process typically
> involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large water changes.
>
> George Patterson
> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[Gill Passman]

Tristan wrote:

> Same for that wet bagged live sand that is sold. HOw much good do you
> really think that stuff serves. I see bags of it that are expired, or
> laying on a stores display shelf in direct sunlight and hot/warm, it
> sets for days on end in a hot truck while being transported, or in a
> cold truck during winter.......Best bet on that sand is buy cheaper
> dry pack sand and get a cup of live sand from someones established
> tank or add live rock and let it seed the sand with bacteria. Thats
> all the bagged sand is capable of having anyhow, and that can come
> from good live rock anyhow....

I used dry sand as the substrate....the tank is now 4 months old and the
substrate is alive and crawling with all sorts of life and has been for
the majority of time that it has been in the tank since the LR was added
- so my conclusion was that dead sand will become live sand quite
quickly and at a fraction of cost to whatever might be sold as "live
sand". I even took this live/dead thing a bit further and used "dead"
rock as well as the live stuff when setting up the tank....the "dead"
rock is now very much alive and again cost a fraction of the price of
the live stuff - I guess the key was to find the balance in quantity
between the live and dead (I guess I did 2/3 LR and 1/3 dead) and also
to be very slow/patient about the additions of anything into the
tank....of course, when it comes to buying the LR it also has to be
remembered, well certainly for the stuff I buy, the coral colonies/frags
are actually sited on Live Rock - which again just adds more and more
into the equation and balance of the tank

Gill




>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:40:45 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:
>
> <<>>I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
> <<>>And to further clarify...internet cured rock.
> <<>>
> <<>>Especially when they ship it in wet newspapers.
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
> <<>>news:9Ntqh.386$AG6.142@trnddc06...
> <<>>> TheRock wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>>> Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
> <<>>>> cured rock.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until nothing
> <<>>> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process typically
> <<>>> involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large water changes.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> George Patterson
> <<>>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
> <<>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

Other than stuff that is on the rock like various critters etc, which
I view as a bonus, as the main reason I want live rock is for a
bacteria house, it is indeed cheaper to use cheap live rock or dead
base rock for a lot less money and add a nice piece or two of good
live rock and allow it to seed. Same for the sand. Its gonna get most
of its critters from the live rock used to seed, or a some what more
diverse mix of critters from a cup or two of live sand removed from a
exisiting tank. Dry bagged sand is what is most common here or natural
sand from the Gulf of mexico region is what a lot of folks use. Then
they head to a friend house and scrounge a cup or two of live sand or
head to a lFS and buy a cup or two. It may all take a bit longer but
what the hey, its stlil neat to watch stuff grow and get established
and still be able to keep a few bucks in your wallet......the end
result is the same it just takes a bit longer......Another good item
to add pods and some other critters is a wad of chaeto or calurpea
macro algae.



On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:06:23 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>
<<>>> Same for that wet bagged live sand that is sold. HOw much good do you
<<>>> really think that stuff serves. I see bags of it that are expired, or
<<>>> laying on a stores display shelf in direct sunlight and hot/warm, it
<<>>> sets for days on end in a hot truck while being transported, or in a
<<>>> cold truck during winter.......Best bet on that sand is buy cheaper
<<>>> dry pack sand and get a cup of live sand from someones established
<<>>> tank or add live rock and let it seed the sand with bacteria. Thats
<<>>> all the bagged sand is capable of having anyhow, and that can come
<<>>> from good live rock anyhow....
<<>>
<<>>I used dry sand as the substrate....the tank is now 4 months old and the
<<>>substrate is alive and crawling with all sorts of life and has been for
<<>>the majority of time that it has been in the tank since the LR was added
<<>>- so my conclusion was that dead sand will become live sand quite
<<>>quickly and at a fraction of cost to whatever might be sold as "live
<<>>sand". I even took this live/dead thing a bit further and used "dead"
<<>>rock as well as the live stuff when setting up the tank....the "dead"
<<>>rock is now very much alive and again cost a fraction of the price of
<<>>the live stuff - I guess the key was to find the balance in quantity
<<>>between the live and dead (I guess I did 2/3 LR and 1/3 dead) and also
<<>>to be very slow/patient about the additions of anything into the
<<>>tank....of course, when it comes to buying the LR it also has to be
<<>>remembered, well certainly for the stuff I buy, the coral colonies/frags
<<>>are actually sited on Live Rock - which again just adds more and more
<<>>into the equation and balance of the tank
<<>>
<<>>Gill
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>>
<<>>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:40:45 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> <<>>I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
<<>>> <<>>And to further clarify...internet cured rock.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Especially when they ship it in wet newspapers.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
<<>>> <<>>news:9Ntqh.386$AG6.142@trnddc06...
<<>>> <<>>> TheRock wrote:
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
<<>>> <<>>>> cured rock.
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until nothing
<<>>> <<>>> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process typically
<<>>> <<>>> involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large water changes.
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> George Patterson
<<>>> <<>>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Elvira]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

Oh, goodie a place for Roy Tristan to go to once rec.ponds.moderated is up
and all the other aquaia groups follow suit and go moderated, at least
Roy Tristan will not be a homeless yankee carpet bagger like he was when
his last working gal dumped him along I-40

>
> Some are isolated from the other setups but I do have 6 on one system
> and 3 on another that utilize a common sump/fuge
>
> All separate picos however do have as large a Aqua Clear filter HOB
> type on them for additional capacity and toprovide a modest fuge...and
> a place for adding carbon is nbecessary and a pllace for the heaters.
> Last count is a total of 11 PICO (2 gal or less) tanks . They make
> better night nlights etc than typical night lights do, plus they give
> me a place ot create new micro reefs when I frag corals etc. After
> they get size and growth to them I incorporate them into the larger
> tanks, and start again in the Pico tanks.
>
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:09:57 -0500, KurtG
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>Tristan wrote:
> <<>>> I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
> <<>>> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and
do
> <<>>> just fine.
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>Hi Tristan,
> <<>>
> <<>>Are all your tanks isolated?
> <<>>
> <<>>--Kurt
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Elvira]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>

Evidently Tristan Roy is out peddling his wares. I did if yu read the post
tell you what and where to go and if yu did that you would have
already had yur questions answered and a suggestin made to a cure if
possible. No, yu owud rather **** around and bitch with what was
opsted, than takeup the info and go with it. Hope your freaking fish
croaks now dude, sorry, but your not fit to keep fish if yu can not
take a suggestion and have to fuss in stead! I suggest re-reading that
reply and doing what was suggested if your really at all concerned.
Get the **** over it!

> There is lots of debate on what is cured or cycled rock as different
> places use these terms interchangebly. My lfs hewre sells rock that
> is fully cured........in other words if its pulled from their tank,
> and placed in water, and carried homoe and placed in your tank with
> little to no exposure or fooling aorund there would not be enough of
> die off to make it noticeable. They sell only fully cured/cycled rock
> that is ready to place in the tank (within a reasonabale time frame )
> and within a day or two its more than safe to start adding fish.
>
> I have cycled lots of tanks already, and do find that when ammonia and
> nitrite levels get too high stuff on the rock and in the rock starts
> to die as well. So I try and keep my ammonia and nitrite levels as as
> possible (Ammonia no higher than say 1 or 1.5) . It may take a bit
> longer but I get much more diverse critters that survive the cycle
> times.
>
> The rock the lFS here sells is some nice rock, and lots of goodies
> come on it..Its not unusual to find small tiny polyps of yuma or other
> shrooms.....as well as sea squirts, sponge and dusters.......brittle
> serpent stars etc.
>
> I much prefer to take longer in getting a tank cycled than do it
> faster with aditivies like dead shrimp etc or usuing live fish. It
> will still cycle, and also keep my ammonia and nitrite levels low. I
> do water changes during cycle so levels are not high, and I run a
> skimmer most of the times.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:09:25 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
> <<>>> wrote:
> <<>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the
substate
> <<>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> <<>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls..
What
> <<>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> <<>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think?
Shall
> <<>>>> I do a complete water change?
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> Thanks!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or clarify
that
> <<>>> you are following the same concepts that I am....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for
you....once it
> <<>>> is cured of course and most of the die off has happened - and this
die off
> <<>>> is generally down to shipping and the decay of stuff that died
during
> <<>>> shipping - cured rock is a good way to go when starting up unless
you are
> <<>>> prepared to wait for it to cure itself - and it sounds pretty much
to me
> <<>>> that this is what you are doing....even if unintended....uncured
rock is
> <<>>> cheaper because your LFS hasn't made the investment of keeping it
for
> <<>>> weeks to do it themselves....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research,
are
> <<>>> fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that your
nitrates
> <<>>> and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain fish but not
> <<>>> inverts....so it is a choice as to what your priorities are......I
want
> <<>>> corals, inverts and fish so have opted for all my "filtration" and
> <<>>> "conversions" being done by my live rock and now live sand (the sand
> <<>>> having been populated by the creatures in my rock)....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein
skimmer
> <<>>> or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I would not
be
> <<>>> without one....this yellow water you are talking about is what I
empty
> <<>>> into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I see in the cup
of the
> <<>>> skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it would be like if I
didn't have
> <<>>> my cheap budget protein skimmer (cost me £18 plus the air pump -
> <<>>> £22)....it has to be said every penny spent is well worth it...and
if we
> <<>>> got into a larger tank (or even my small tank) - if you evaluate the
cost
> <<>>> of your corals against this one essential piece of kit the cost
works
> <<>>> out.....the loss of your frags at between £20 and £40 pounds
compared to a
> <<>>> more expensive model still costs out well - let alone the emotional
cost
> <<>>> and the frustration....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Gill
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing
as
> <<>>cured rock.
> <<>>As soon as you remove it from the ocean everything on it and in it
starts to
> <<>>die.
> <<>>It's is possible to get rock from a LFS that has been marinating in
water
> <<>>and you can get it home quickly. But still, live rock doesn't come
with all
> <<>>the goodies
> <<>>that it would have as it was in the ocean.
> <<>>
> <<>>GET YOURSELF A SKIMMER MAN !!! : )
> <<>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Mr Nibbs]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> said:
Yep your assumption is right.Evidently Roy Tristan is out peddling his
wares. I did if yu read the post
tell you what and where to go and if yu did that you would have
already had yur questions answered and a suggestin made to a cure if
possible. No, yu owud rather **** around and bitch with what was
opsted, than takeup the info and go with it. Hope your freaking fish
croaks now dude, sorry, but your not fit to keep fish if yu can not
take a suggestion and have to fuss in stead! I suggest re-reading that
reply and doing what was suggested if your really at all concerned.
Get the **** over it!

>
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:11:34 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>George Patterson wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until
nothing
> <<>>> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process
> <<>>> typically involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large
> <<>>> water changes.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> George Patterson
> <<>>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
> <<>>
> <<>>This is my understanding of "cured live rock" as well.....one of the
> <<>>guys at the lfs was chatting to me about the latest batch of LR that
> <<>>they had got in and how they were needing to empty the cup on the
> <<>>Protein Skimmer multiple times a day when usually, after the die off
it
> <<>>would be daily at most....
> <<>>
> <<>>I'm guessing from my experience that there was also a certain degree
of
> <<>>die off when I put the rock into my little 15 gall tank (but much less
> <<>>than would have happened if the rock hadn't been "cured") - certainly
I
> <<>>was getting stuff in the cup of the Protein Skimmer without having
> <<>>anything in the tank other than the LR but this was minimal compared
to
> <<>>what I get now with fish, corals and inverts in there....
> <<>>
> <<>>Gill
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Mr Nibbs]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

Yep your assumption is right.Evidently Roy Tristan is out peddling his
wares. I did if yu read the post
tell you what and where to go and if yu did that you would have
already had yur questions answered and a suggestin made to a cure if
possible. No, yu owud rather **** around and bitch with what was
opsted, than takeup the info and go with it. Hope your freaking fish
croaks now dude, sorry, but your not fit to keep fish if yu can not
take a suggestion and have to fuss in stead! I suggest re-reading that
reply and doing what was suggested if your really at all concerned.
Get the **** over it!


> No such thing as Internet Cured live rock once it is pulled and packed
> and in transit., it once again becomes rock in need of curing. Closet
> yur gonna come to actual real cured live rock is harvest it and place
> in yur own tank imediately or but it cured at lfs and carry it home in
> a bucket of SW and place in the tank with little to no exposure to
> air or temp variations.....How fast it will go downhill is anyones
> guess as it all depends on how much and what is on it to begin with.
> Same for that wet bagged live sand that is sold. HOw much good do you
> really think that stuff serves. I see bags of it that are expired, or
> laying on a stores display shelf in direct sunlight and hot/warm, it
> sets for days on end in a hot truck while being transported, or in a
> cold truck during winter.......Best bet on that sand is buy cheaper
> dry pack sand and get a cup of live sand from someones established
> tank or add live rock and let it seed the sand with bacteria. Thats
> all the bagged sand is capable of having anyhow, and that can come
> from good live rock anyhow....

[Mr Nibbs]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

Yep your assumption is right.Evidently Roy Tristan is out peddling his
wares. I did if yu read the post
tell you what and where to go and if yu did that you would have
already had yur questions answered and a suggestin made to a cure if
possible. No, yu owud rather **** around and bitch with what was
opsted, than takeup the info and go with it. Hope your freaking fish
croaks now dude, sorry, but your not fit to keep fish if yu can not
take a suggestion and have to fuss in stead! I suggest re-reading that
reply and doing what was suggested if your really at all concerned.
Get the **** over it!


> Other than stuff that is on the rock like various critters etc, which
> I view as a bonus, as the main reason I want live rock is for a
> bacteria house, it is indeed cheaper to use cheap live rock or dead
> base rock for a lot less money and add a nice piece or two of good
> live rock and allow it to seed. Same for the sand. Its gonna get most
> of its critters from the live rock used to seed, or a some what more
> diverse mix of critters from a cup or two of live sand removed from a
> exisiting tank. Dry bagged sand is what is most common here or natural
> sand from the Gulf of mexico region is what a lot of folks use. Then
> they head to a friend house and scrounge a cup or two of live sand or
> head to a lFS and buy a cup or two. It may all take a bit longer but
> what the hey, its stlil neat to watch stuff grow and get established
> and still be able to keep a few bucks in your wallet......the end
> result is the same it just takes a bit longer......Another good item
> to add pods and some other critters is a wad of chaeto or calurpea
> macro algae.

[KurtG]

TheRock wrote:
> I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
> And to further clarify...internet cured rock.


http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZmrmarine

I just bought 30# of rock from this guy. As you say, it came wrapped in
plastic and wet newspapers, but it was clean and in good shape. I put
it in a vat for 10 days, and it did have a slight die off, but it wasn't
bad at all. I just put it in my tank.

--Kurt

[George Patterson]

TheRock wrote:
> I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
> And to further clarify...internet cured rock.

Oh. Well, I found at least two sources when I was shopping for the stuff.
Unfortunately, I didn't save the links, since I was looking for uncured. One
outfit was in Maryland, and I think another was in Tampa.

George Patterson
Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.

[that *other* annoying little troll]

Tristan wrote:

>
> 25 gal is not small for a marine tank.

Marine tank, or reef tank? I thought this was a reef group ;-)

I have a 20 and a 10 myself, and here is what *I* have noticed:

Calcium and carbonates can be an issue in smaller tanks - much less
water volume, so what is available gets used up quickly. I wind up
dumping in about a cup of b-ionic 2 part over a weeks time.

Also evaporation is a b*tch. If you have good aeration and circulation,
get get fast evaporation. When water volume is so low to begin with,
this means you have wild jumps in salinity unless you top off twice a
day or have an auto top off system. Oddly enough, even though my 20long
has about 3 times the surface area of my 10, evaporation in the 10 seems
to be worse than the 20(!?!) - I lose about 1 gal a day in the 10, and
maybe 1 half gal in the 20. Not sure why that is.

> I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
> just fine. I even have a 1 quart PICO with a yasha hasha goby and
> pistol shrimp ni it loaded with zoos and shrooms doing just fine. I
> have yet another tiny pico tank made with a brandy snifter (less than
> a quart) with a panda goby in it doing just fine for over a year now.


> If temps can be managed properly, they are not any harder than any
> other tank.
>

Temp is of course the hardest part of all when one has a small water
volume to work with. If room tempis not stable, keeoing the tank temp
stable will be a bear. Up here, in winter time, figure my living room is
gonna be 10-15 degrees colder at night then during day. ANd of course
during the day, I have my lights on over the tanks. So add another 5
degrees increase during the day. I had to put a 150 watt heater in my
20 gal to make up for the ambient drop at night, and it looks as if I
really need a chiller during the day due to my MH's. For now, I just
keep the heater set to 84 degrees (that is where the temp is during the
day with no heater - I want to keep it stable at nigh)

That all would be less of an issue if I had more water volume. Water
takes a lot of energy to change it's temp (which is why we use it in
radiators)

I see your pico's have all hardy stuff - try putting something like a
neon acro in one and get back to me about how it does.

Not saying one CAN'T do small marine or reef tanks, I'm just saying that
having more water volume DOES make things easier.

[Tristan]

I do all reef tanks no matter what size. I do have a fish only tank
that wa sjust started whenI decided to convert a FW puffer to9 salt
environment, so its just rubble and sand and no corals. I have all
kinds of corals. If they can be kept under lots of PC I have it. I do
not fool with any that requires MH lights. Other than temp regulation
they just are not a problem. All are equipped with ATO and
skimmers......and all PICO's I have use home brew air powered counter
current skimmers that work pretty darn good. I wul dnot be afraid to
bet our temps here are more stable than temps up north of here, so
that does help a lot. I also run some of the tanks if I have problems
with temp at a high temperature as compared to others. Most run
however in the 81 to 82 and even an 83 deg or a bit more. ...but with
a bit of fiddling and playing the tmep swing is usually less than 2
deg on any of these tanks, so they are pretty darn stabil, but it took
a bit of fooling with to get them there.


On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:23:18 -0500, that *other* annoying little troll
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>
<<>>>
<<>>> 25 gal is not small for a marine tank.
<<>>
<<>>Marine tank, or reef tank? I thought this was a reef group ;-)
<<>>
<<>>I have a 20 and a 10 myself, and here is what *I* have noticed:
<<>>
<<>>Calcium and carbonates can be an issue in smaller tanks - much less
<<>>water volume, so what is available gets used up quickly. I wind up
<<>>dumping in about a cup of b-ionic 2 part over a weeks time.
<<>>
<<>>Also evaporation is a b*tch. If you have good aeration and circulation,
<<>>get get fast evaporation. When water volume is so low to begin with,
<<>>this means you have wild jumps in salinity unless you top off twice a
<<>>day or have an auto top off system. Oddly enough, even though my 20long
<<>>has about 3 times the surface area of my 10, evaporation in the 10 seems
<<>>to be worse than the 20(!?!) - I lose about 1 gal a day in the 10, and
<<>>maybe 1 half gal in the 20. Not sure why that is.
<<>>
<<>>> I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
<<>>> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
<<>>> just fine. I even have a 1 quart PICO with a yasha hasha goby and
<<>>> pistol shrimp ni it loaded with zoos and shrooms doing just fine. I
<<>>> have yet another tiny pico tank made with a brandy snifter (less than
<<>>> a quart) with a panda goby in it doing just fine for over a year now.
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>> If temps can be managed properly, they are not any harder than any
<<>>> other tank.
<<>>>
<<>>
<<>>Temp is of course the hardest part of all when one has a small water
<<>>volume to work with. If room tempis not stable, keeoing the tank temp
<<>>stable will be a bear. Up here, in winter time, figure my living room is
<<>>gonna be 10-15 degrees colder at night then during day. ANd of course
<<>>during the day, I have my lights on over the tanks. So add another 5
<<>>degrees increase during the day. I had to put a 150 watt heater in my
<<>>20 gal to make up for the ambient drop at night, and it looks as if I
<<>>really need a chiller during the day due to my MH's. For now, I just
<<>>keep the heater set to 84 degrees (that is where the temp is during the
<<>>day with no heater - I want to keep it stable at nigh)
<<>>
<<>>That all would be less of an issue if I had more water volume. Water
<<>>takes a lot of energy to change it's temp (which is why we use it in
<<>>radiators)
<<>>
<<>>I see your pico's have all hardy stuff - try putting something like a
<<>>neon acro in one and get back to me about how it does.
<<>>
<<>>Not saying one CAN'T do small marine or reef tanks, I'm just saying that
<<>>having more water volume DOES make things easier.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Francis]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>

Hows the medicine Roy Tristan? Better than what you shove down old ladies
throats.... you eat up the attention?

>
> Some are isolated from the other setups but I do have 6 on one system
> and 3 on another that utilize a common sump/fuge
>
> All separate picos however do have as large a Aqua Clear filter HOB
> type on them for additional capacity and toprovide a modest fuge...and
> a place for adding carbon is nbecessary and a pllace for the heaters.
> Last count is a total of 11 PICO (2 gal or less) tanks . They make
> better night nlights etc than typical night lights do, plus they give
> me a place ot create new micro reefs when I frag corals etc. After
> they get size and growth to them I incorporate them into the larger
> tanks, and start again in the Pico tanks.
>
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:09:57 -0500, KurtG
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>Tristan wrote:
> <<>>> I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
> <<>>> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and
> do
> <<>>> just fine.
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>Hi Tristan,
> <<>>
> <<>>Are all your tanks isolated?
> <<>>
> <<>>--Kurt
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[that *other* annoying little troll]

TheRock wrote:

> Isn't high ammonia part of the cycle ?

Yes. Full cycle with a deep sand bed would be:
ammonia->nitrite->nitrate->nitrite->nitrous oxide->nitrogen

> Don't you need it to cycle ? If you dilute the tank with water aren't you
> just
> removing bacteria that moves the cycle along and prolonging cycle time ?

depends.If the ammonia spike TOO high, bacteria will die.

When I started up my first tank (which wasn't that long ago) my ammonia
never got above 0.3 mg/ml. But I "cheated" - tank was initially filled
with "live" water, "live" sand, and I added a cup of crap out of one of
the LFS sumps to innoculate things (I use quotes around "live" water and
sand, since I question how live it can be after sitting in a sealed
containber for months. it WILL have active bacrteria spores in it, tho,
which DOES help)

> I only ask because I didn't do it that way and I had plenty of pods and
> worms
> after the cycle.

Pods and worms are pretty hardy. Pods can take a LOT of abuse, from what
I have heard. (I had a pod "cultures" going for a while - water would
get just plain NASTY, with ammonia readings of like .6 or .8 range, and
pods were just fine with it) I think you would have had plenty of both
(pods and worms) no matter which way you went.

[Gilbert]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

Is i t fun to stalk old ladies Tristan? tell us abuout the thrill it give
you you can't get any other way you sorry piece of ****.

> Other than stuff that is on the rock like various critters etc, which
> I view as a bonus, as the main reason I want live rock is for a
> bacteria house, it is indeed cheaper to use cheap live rock or dead
> base rock for a lot less money and add a nice piece or two of good
> live rock and allow it to seed. Same for the sand. Its gonna get most
> of its critters from the live rock used to seed, or a some what more
> diverse mix of critters from a cup or two of live sand removed from a
> exisiting tank. Dry bagged sand is what is most common here or natural
> sand from the Gulf of mexico region is what a lot of folks use. Then
> they head to a friend house and scrounge a cup or two of live sand or
> head to a lFS and buy a cup or two. It may all take a bit longer but
> what the hey, its stlil neat to watch stuff grow and get established
> and still be able to keep a few bucks in your wallet......the end
> result is the same it just takes a bit longer......Another good item
> to add pods and some other critters is a wad of chaeto or calurpea
> macro algae.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:06:23 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>Tristan wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>> Same for that wet bagged live sand that is sold. HOw much good do
you
> <<>>> really think that stuff serves. I see bags of it that are expired,
or
> <<>>> laying on a stores display shelf in direct sunlight and hot/warm, it
> <<>>> sets for days on end in a hot truck while being transported, or in
a
> <<>>> cold truck during winter.......Best bet on that sand is buy cheaper
> <<>>> dry pack sand and get a cup of live sand from someones established
> <<>>> tank or add live rock and let it seed the sand with bacteria. Thats
> <<>>> all the bagged sand is capable of having anyhow, and that can come
> <<>>> from good live rock anyhow....
> <<>>
> <<>>I used dry sand as the substrate....the tank is now 4 months old and
the
> <<>>substrate is alive and crawling with all sorts of life and has been
for
> <<>>the majority of time that it has been in the tank since the LR was
added
> <<>>- so my conclusion was that dead sand will become live sand quite
> <<>>quickly and at a fraction of cost to whatever might be sold as "live
> <<>>sand". I even took this live/dead thing a bit further and used "dead"
> <<>>rock as well as the live stuff when setting up the tank....the "dead"
> <<>>rock is now very much alive and again cost a fraction of the price of
> <<>>the live stuff - I guess the key was to find the balance in quantity
> <<>>between the live and dead (I guess I did 2/3 LR and 1/3 dead) and also
> <<>>to be very slow/patient about the additions of anything into the
> <<>>tank....of course, when it comes to buying the LR it also has to be
> <<>>remembered, well certainly for the stuff I buy, the coral
colonies/frags
> <<>>are actually sited on Live Rock - which again just adds more and more
> <<>>into the equation and balance of the tank
> <<>>
> <<>>Gill
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:40:45 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
> <<>>> <<>>And to further clarify...internet cured rock.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Especially when they ship it in wet newspapers.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>"George Patterson" > wrote in message
> <<>>> <<>>news:9Ntqh.386$AG6.142@trnddc06...
> <<>>> <<>>> TheRock wrote:
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no
such thing as
> <<>>> <<>>>> cured rock.
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it)
until nothing
> <<>>> <<>>> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing
process typically
> <<>>> <<>>> involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large
water changes.
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> George Patterson
> <<>>> <<>>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gilbert]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

Give i t up Roy "TRistan" Hauer.........your a daya late and a dollar short
plus
your a bigger dumbass whithout a clue who is pronbe to telling lies or ad
libbing or lieing about what you post since its always phlagarized sp? Your
trolling is getting old and as you can see.... no one cares.........

>
> 25 gal is not small for a marine tank. I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
> just fine. I even have a 1 quart PICO with a yasha hasha goby and
> pistol shrimp ni it loaded with zoos and shrooms doing just fine. I
> have yet another tiny pico tank made with a brandy snifter (less than
> a quart) with a panda goby in it doing just fine for over a year now.
> If temps can be managed properly, they are not any harder than any
> other tank.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:25:44 -0500, that *other* annoying little troll
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the
substate
> <<>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> <<>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls..
What
> <<>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> <<>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think?
Shall
> <<>>> I do a complete water change?
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Thanks!
> <<>>>
> <<>>
> <<>> 25 gal is small for a marine tank. Can be done, but it's trickier
with
> <<>>a small tank like that.
> <<>>
> <<>>Yellow is from stuff decomposing on the live rock. This happens with
new
> <<>>live rock. it'll likely get a bit worse befpore it gets better.
> <<>>
> <<>>Don't put any livestock in before this yellowing clears up. Don't fic
it
> <<>>by changing the water (not yet anyway) - you will screw up the cycling
> <<>>if you start changing water thois soon.
> <<>>
> <<>>You don't mention if you have a skimmer or not. Skimmers are NOT
> <<>>optional, no matter what you may have heard or been told. You need
one.
> <<>>Get one. use it. It will pull a lot of the "yellow" out of your water.
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Anon]

What shipping method did you select? How long did it take to get to
you? What state are you in?


KurtG wrote:
> TheRock wrote:
>
>> I meant "purchasing cured rock"...you are correct.
>> And to further clarify...internet cured rock.
>
>
>
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZmrmarine
>
> I just bought 30# of rock from this guy. As you say, it came wrapped in
> plastic and wet newspapers, but it was clean and in good shape. I put
> it in a vat for 10 days, and it did have a slight die off, but it wasn't
> bad at all. I just put it in my tank.
>
> --Kurt

[Wayne Sallee]

Yep that's right it's best to keep as much alive as one
can. A lot of people do a lot of killing in the name of
curing.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Tristan wrote on 1/14/2007 10:37 AM:
>
> There is lots of debate on what is cured or cycled rock as different
> places use these terms interchangebly. My lfs hewre sells rock that
> is fully cured........in other words if its pulled from their tank,
> and placed in water, and carried homoe and placed in your tank with
> little to no exposure or fooling aorund there would not be enough of
> die off to make it noticeable. They sell only fully cured/cycled rock
> that is ready to place in the tank (within a reasonabale time frame )
> and within a day or two its more than safe to start adding fish.
>
> I have cycled lots of tanks already, and do find that when ammonia and
> nitrite levels get too high stuff on the rock and in the rock starts
> to die as well. So I try and keep my ammonia and nitrite levels as as
> possible (Ammonia no higher than say 1 or 1.5) . It may take a bit
> longer but I get much more diverse critters that survive the cycle
> times.
>
> The rock the lFS here sells is some nice rock, and lots of goodies
> come on it..Its not unusual to find small tiny polyps of yuma or other
> shrooms.....as well as sea squirts, sponge and dusters.......brittle
> serpent stars etc.
>
> I much prefer to take longer in getting a tank cycled than do it
> faster with aditivies like dead shrimp etc or usuing live fish. It
> will still cycle, and also keep my ammonia and nitrite levels low. I
> do water changes during cycle so levels are not high, and I run a
> skimmer most of the times.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:09:25 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
> <<>>> wrote:
> <<>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> <<>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> <<>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> <<>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> <<>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> <<>>>> I do a complete water change?
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> Thanks!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or clarify that
> <<>>> you are following the same concepts that I am....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for you....once it
> <<>>> is cured of course and most of the die off has happened - and this die off
> <<>>> is generally down to shipping and the decay of stuff that died during
> <<>>> shipping - cured rock is a good way to go when starting up unless you are
> <<>>> prepared to wait for it to cure itself - and it sounds pretty much to me
> <<>>> that this is what you are doing....even if unintended....uncured rock is
> <<>>> cheaper because your LFS hasn't made the investment of keeping it for
> <<>>> weeks to do it themselves....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research, are
> <<>>> fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that your nitrates
> <<>>> and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain fish but not
> <<>>> inverts....so it is a choice as to what your priorities are......I want
> <<>>> corals, inverts and fish so have opted for all my "filtration" and
> <<>>> "conversions" being done by my live rock and now live sand (the sand
> <<>>> having been populated by the creatures in my rock)....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein skimmer
> <<>>> or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I would not be
> <<>>> without one....this yellow water you are talking about is what I empty
> <<>>> into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I see in the cup of the
> <<>>> skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it would be like if I didn't have
> <<>>> my cheap budget protein skimmer (cost me £18 plus the air pump -
> <<>>> £22)....it has to be said every penny spent is well worth it...and if we
> <<>>> got into a larger tank (or even my small tank) - if you evaluate the cost
> <<>>> of your corals against this one essential piece of kit the cost works
> <<>>> out.....the loss of your frags at between £20 and £40 pounds compared to a
> <<>>> more expensive model still costs out well - let alone the emotional cost
> <<>>> and the frustration....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Gill
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such thing as
> <<>>cured rock.
> <<>>As soon as you remove it from the ocean everything on it and in it starts to
> <<>>die.
> <<>>It's is possible to get rock from a LFS that has been marinating in water
> <<>>and you can get it home quickly. But still, live rock doesn't come with all
> <<>>the goodies
> <<>>that it would have as it was in the ocean.
> <<>>
> <<>>GET YOURSELF A SKIMMER MAN !!! : )
> <<>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Wayne Sallee]

Bacteria in the water is not very efficient. Bacteria
attached with water flowing across it is much more
efficient. For nitrification, the more surface area you
have for bacteria to grow and the more water flow you have
the better your biological filtration. You can actually
reduce ammonia levels simply by increasing water flow.
However, with live rock, increased water flow can also
increase ammonia levels. This is because if you have a
substantial amount of die off it gets more oxygenated
water and thus is less anaerobic. But even so it is better
to have more water flow to save the inhabitants, One can
also aerate the water to help drive off ammonia. It will
create salt creep, but since it's just temporary for
cycling purposes, it's not so bad. And by all means do
water changes to keep levels from getting too high.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



TheRock wrote on 1/14/2007 10:13 AM:
> Isn't high ammonia part of the cycle ?
> Don't you need it to cycle ? If you dilute the tank with water aren't you
> just
> removing bacteria that moves the cycle along and prolonging cycle time ?
>
> I only ask because I didn't do it that way and I had plenty of pods and
> worms
> after the cycle.
>
>
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>> I would do water changes if it is real high in ammonia or nitrite, in order
>> to preserve the life on the rock.
>>
>> Wayne Sallee
>> Wayne's Pets
>>
>>
>>
>> TheRock wrote on 1/13/2007 7:17 AM:
>>> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
>>> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
>>> overnight.
>>>
>>> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
>>> all yet.
>>> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
>>> running a
>>> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
>>>
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>>>>
>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
>>>> I do a complete water change?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>

[TheRock]

NOW YOU TELL ME !!!
THANKS A LOT : )

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Yep that's right it's best to keep as much alive as one can. A lot of
> people do a lot of killing in the name of curing.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
>
> Tristan wrote on 1/14/2007 10:37 AM:
>>
>> There is lots of debate on what is cured or cycled rock as different
>> places use these terms interchangebly. My lfs hewre sells rock that
>> is fully cured........in other words if its pulled from their tank,
>> and placed in water, and carried homoe and placed in your tank with
>> little to no exposure or fooling aorund there would not be enough of
>> die off to make it noticeable. They sell only fully cured/cycled rock
>> that is ready to place in the tank (within a reasonabale time frame )
>> and within a day or two its more than safe to start adding fish.
>>
>> I have cycled lots of tanks already, and do find that when ammonia and
>> nitrite levels get too high stuff on the rock and in the rock starts
>> to die as well. So I try and keep my ammonia and nitrite levels as as
>> possible (Ammonia no higher than say 1 or 1.5) . It may take a bit
>> longer but I get much more diverse critters that survive the cycle
>> times.
>>
>> The rock the lFS here sells is some nice rock, and lots of goodies
>> come on it..Its not unusual to find small tiny polyps of yuma or other
>> shrooms.....as well as sea squirts, sponge and dusters.......brittle
>> serpent stars etc. I much prefer to take longer in getting a tank cycled
>> than do it
>> faster with aditivies like dead shrimp etc or usuing live fish. It
>> will still cycle, and also keep my ammonia and nitrite levels low. I
>> do water changes during cycle so levels are not high, and I run a
>> skimmer most of the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:09:25 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:
>> <<>>
>> <<>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> <<>>> wrote:
>> <<>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the
>> substate
>> <<>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
>> <<>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls..
>> What
>> <<>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about
>> 60%
>> <<>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think?
>> Shall
>> <<>>>> I do a complete water change?
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>> Thanks!
>> <<>>>>
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or
>> clarify that <<>>> you are following the same concepts that I am....
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for
>> you....once it <<>>> is cured of course and most of the die off has
>> happened - and this die off <<>>> is generally down to shipping and the
>> decay of stuff that died during <<>>> shipping - cured rock is a good way
>> to go when starting up unless you are <<>>> prepared to wait for it to
>> cure itself - and it sounds pretty much to me <<>>> that this is what you
>> are doing....even if unintended....uncured rock is <<>>> cheaper because
>> your LFS hasn't made the investment of keeping it for <<>>> weeks to do
>> it themselves....
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research,
>> are <<>>> fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that
>> your nitrates <<>>> and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain
>> fish but not <<>>> inverts....so it is a choice as to what your
>> priorities are......I want <<>>> corals, inverts and fish so have opted
>> for all my "filtration" and <<>>> "conversions" being done by my live
>> rock and now live sand (the sand <<>>> having been populated by the
>> creatures in my rock)....
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein
>> skimmer <<>>> or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I
>> would not be <<>>> without one....this yellow water you are talking about
>> is what I empty <<>>> into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I
>> see in the cup of the <<>>> skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it
>> would be like if I didn't have <<>>> my cheap budget protein skimmer
>> (cost me £18 plus the air pump - <<>>> £22)....it has to be said every
>> penny spent is well worth it...and if we <<>>> got into a larger tank (or
>> even my small tank) - if you evaluate the cost <<>>> of your corals
>> against this one essential piece of kit the cost works <<>>> out.....the
>> loss of your frags at between £20 and £40 pounds compared to a <<>>> more
>> expensive model still costs out well - let alone the emotional cost <<>>>
>> and the frustration....
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> Gill
>> <<>>
>> <<>>
>> <<>>Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such
>> thing as <<>>cured rock.
>> <<>>As soon as you remove it from the ocean everything on it and in it
>> starts to <<>>die.
>> <<>>It's is possible to get rock from a LFS that has been marinating in
>> water
>> <<>>and you can get it home quickly. But still, live rock doesn't come
>> with all <<>>the goodies
>> <<>>that it would have as it was in the ocean.
>> <<>>
>> <<>>GET YOURSELF A SKIMMER MAN !!! : ) <<>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------
>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

This is only my opinion, but if yu have live rock that yu intend to
have in the tank use it to initiate a cycle. It does the job and does
it well. No need to acc cycle or dead shrimp or live fish, let the
rock do the job. Ammonia and nitrite levels will not be anywhere near
as high as usuing dead shrimp or no fish will be in jeopardy either
like the commonly used Damsels usually are. Your cycle will be just as
good and more than likely better than one that had higher ammonia and
nitrite levels that used dead shrimp, and yur rock will have more life
left on it that will flourish into unique hitch hikers that may not
normally be available through most LFS.....

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:39:34 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:

<<>>NOW YOU TELL ME !!!
<<>>THANKS A LOT : )
<<>>
<<>>"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
link.net...
<<>>> Yep that's right it's best to keep as much alive as one can. A lot of
<<>>> people do a lot of killing in the name of curing.
<<>>>
<<>>> Wayne Sallee
<<>>> Wayne's Pets
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> Tristan wrote on 1/14/2007 10:37 AM:
<<>>>>
<<>>>> There is lots of debate on what is cured or cycled rock as different
<<>>>> places use these terms interchangebly. My lfs hewre sells rock that
<<>>>> is fully cured........in other words if its pulled from their tank,
<<>>>> and placed in water, and carried homoe and placed in your tank with
<<>>>> little to no exposure or fooling aorund there would not be enough of
<<>>>> die off to make it noticeable. They sell only fully cured/cycled rock
<<>>>> that is ready to place in the tank (within a reasonabale time frame )
<<>>>> and within a day or two its more than safe to start adding fish.
<<>>>>
<<>>>> I have cycled lots of tanks already, and do find that when ammonia and
<<>>>> nitrite levels get too high stuff on the rock and in the rock starts
<<>>>> to die as well. So I try and keep my ammonia and nitrite levels as as
<<>>>> possible (Ammonia no higher than say 1 or 1.5) . It may take a bit
<<>>>> longer but I get much more diverse critters that survive the cycle
<<>>>> times.
<<>>>>
<<>>>> The rock the lFS here sells is some nice rock, and lots of goodies
<<>>>> come on it..Its not unusual to find small tiny polyps of yuma or other
<<>>>> shrooms.....as well as sea squirts, sponge and dusters.......brittle
<<>>>> serpent stars etc. I much prefer to take longer in getting a tank cycled
<<>>>> than do it
<<>>>> faster with aditivies like dead shrimp etc or usuing live fish. It
<<>>>> will still cycle, and also keep my ammonia and nitrite levels low. I
<<>>>> do water changes during cycle so levels are not high, and I run a
<<>>>> skimmer most of the times.
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:09:25 GMT, "TheRock" > wrote:
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
<<>>>> ...
<<>>>> <<>>> wrote:
<<>>>> <<>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the
<<>>>> substate
<<>>>> <<>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
<<>>>> <<>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
<<>>>> <<>>>>
<<>>>> <<>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls..
<<>>>> What
<<>>>> <<>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about
<<>>>> 60%
<<>>>> <<>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think?
<<>>>> Shall
<<>>>> <<>>>> I do a complete water change?
<<>>>> <<>>>>
<<>>>> <<>>>> Thanks!
<<>>>> <<>>>>
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>> OK I'm a newbie but want to ask a few questions of you....or
<<>>>> clarify that <<>>> you are following the same concepts that I am....
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>> The point of Live Rock is that it does your filtration for
<<>>>> you....once it <<>>> is cured of course and most of the die off has
<<>>>> happened - and this die off <<>>> is generally down to shipping and the
<<>>>> decay of stuff that died during <<>>> shipping - cured rock is a good way
<<>>>> to go when starting up unless you are <<>>> prepared to wait for it to
<<>>>> cure itself - and it sounds pretty much to me <<>>> that this is what you
<<>>>> are doing....even if unintended....uncured rock is <<>>> cheaper because
<<>>>> your LFS hasn't made the investment of keeping it for <<>>> weeks to do
<<>>>> it themselves....
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>> Mechanical and convential biological filtration, from my research,
<<>>>> are <<>>> fine if you want a fish only tank....but they will mean that
<<>>>> your nitrates <<>>> and phosphates will be at a level that can sustain
<<>>>> fish but not <<>>> inverts....so it is a choice as to what your
<<>>>> priorities are......I want <<>>> corals, inverts and fish so have opted
<<>>>> for all my "filtration" and <<>>> "conversions" being done by my live
<<>>>> rock and now live sand (the sand <<>>> having been populated by the
<<>>>> creatures in my rock)....
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>> I know that you have been asked about whether you have a protein
<<>>>> skimmer <<>>> or not....from my experience with my little 15 gall Nano I
<<>>>> would not be <<>>> without one....this yellow water you are talking about
<<>>>> is what I empty <<>>> into the sink from the cup of my skimmer.....what I
<<>>>> see in the cup of the <<>>> skimmer is enough to freak me as to what it
<<>>>> would be like if I didn't have <<>>> my cheap budget protein skimmer
<<>>>> (cost me £18 plus the air pump - <<>>> £22)....it has to be said every
<<>>>> penny spent is well worth it...and if we <<>>> got into a larger tank (or
<<>>>> even my small tank) - if you evaluate the cost <<>>> of your corals
<<>>>> against this one essential piece of kit the cost works <<>>> out.....the
<<>>>> loss of your frags at between £20 and £40 pounds compared to a <<>>> more
<<>>>> expensive model still costs out well - let alone the emotional cost <<>>>
<<>>>> and the frustration....
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>> Gill
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>Somebody correct me if I am wrong but i believe there is no such
<<>>>> thing as <<>>cured rock.
<<>>>> <<>>As soon as you remove it from the ocean everything on it and in it
<<>>>> starts to <<>>die.
<<>>>> <<>>It's is possible to get rock from a LFS that has been marinating in
<<>>>> water
<<>>>> <<>>and you can get it home quickly. But still, live rock doesn't come
<<>>>> with all <<>>the goodies
<<>>>> <<>>that it would have as it was in the ocean.
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>GET YOURSELF A SKIMMER MAN !!! : ) <<>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>> -------
<<>>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Atlanta Jack]

Seek help for your obsession with Carol Roy Tristan, you sick
*******........

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> 25 gal is not small for a marine tank. I have a bunch of pico tanks 2
> gal or less that have been up and runing for two or more years and do
> just fine. I even have a 1 quart PICO with a yasha hasha goby and
> pistol shrimp ni it loaded with zoos and shrooms doing just fine. I
> have yet another tiny pico tank made with a brandy snifter (less than
> a quart) with a panda goby in it doing just fine for over a year now.
> If temps can be managed properly, they are not any harder than any
> other tank.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:25:44 -0500, that *other* annoying little troll
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the
substate
> <<>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> <<>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls..
What
> <<>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> <<>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think?
Shall
> <<>>> I do a complete water change?
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Thanks!
> <<>>>
> <<>>
> <<>> 25 gal is small for a marine tank. Can be done, but it's trickier
with
> <<>>a small tank like that.
> <<>>
> <<>>Yellow is from stuff decomposing on the live rock. This happens with
new
> <<>>live rock. it'll likely get a bit worse befpore it gets better.
> <<>>
> <<>>Don't put any livestock in before this yellowing clears up. Don't fic
it
> <<>>by changing the water (not yet anyway) - you will screw up the cycling
> <<>>if you start changing water thois soon.
> <<>>
> <<>>You don't mention if you have a skimmer or not. Skimmers are NOT
> <<>>optional, no matter what you may have heard or been told. You need
one.
> <<>>Get one. use it. It will pull a lot of the "yellow" out of your water.
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Atlanta Jack]

Get back on your meds asshole........... leave the sick and elderly alone
you lying scumbag.

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
> Yep your assumption is right.
>
>
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 18:11:34 +0000, Gill Passman
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>George Patterson wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>> Live rock that has been marinated in water (as you put it) until
nothing
> <<>>> dies anymore is said to be "cured live rock." The curing process
> <<>>> typically involves low light levels, lots of circulation, and large
> <<>>> water changes.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> George Patterson
> <<>>> Forgive your enemies. But always remember who they are.
> <<>>
> <<>>This is my understanding of "cured live rock" as well.....one of the
> <<>>guys at the lfs was chatting to me about the latest batch of LR that
> <<>>they had got in and how they were needing to empty the cup on the
> <<>>Protein Skimmer multiple times a day when usually, after the die off
it
> <<>>would be daily at most....
> <<>>
> <<>>I'm guessing from my experience that there was also a certain degree
of
> <<>>die off when I put the rock into my little 15 gall tank (but much less
> <<>>than would have happened if the rock hadn't been "cured") - certainly
I
> <<>>was getting stuff in the cup of the Protein Skimmer without having
> <<>>anything in the tank other than the LR but this was minimal compared
to
> <<>>what I get now with fish, corals and inverts in there....
> <<>>
> <<>>Gill
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[[email protected]]

Yes I have a 24x7 protein skimmer and the first 2 days it collects some
dark green junk water in it that I poured down the toilet.

I paniclly changed water 100% last week but today the yellow tint stuff
came back! The live rocks are now covered with some yellow stuff that I
don't know the name.

Is this all normal? This time I didnt do water change but use some
bathtissue to wipe the yellow tint off the acrylic. It is better than
last week but I am still worried. Is this normal? The substrate are
covered with brown stuff too.

Thanks!


TheRock wrote:
> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
> overnight.
>
> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
> all yet.
> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
> running a
> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> > and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> > suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> >
> > I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> > do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> > change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> > I do a complete water change?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >

[[email protected]]

One more thing I forgot to mention: The aquarium has 2 2x65w compact
fluorescent lights that are blue and white. I alternate them during the
day to simulate morning/day/evening and turned lights off in the night.


Also, last night I added some B-IONIC calcium (both No1 and No2) to
improve the calcium level for the live rocks. Would this have anythign
to do with the yellow stuff? Or is it just a coincidence?

wrote:
> Yes I have a 24x7 protein skimmer and the first 2 days it collects some
> dark green junk water in it that I poured down the toilet.
>
> I paniclly changed water 100% last week but today the yellow tint stuff
> came back! The live rocks are now covered with some yellow stuff that I
> don't know the name.
>
> Is this all normal? This time I didnt do water change but use some
> bathtissue to wipe the yellow tint off the acrylic. It is better than
> last week but I am still worried. Is this normal? The substrate are
> covered with brown stuff too.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> TheRock wrote:
> > Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
> > one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
> > overnight.
> >
> > You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
> > all yet.
> > Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
> > running a
> > protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
> >
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > >I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> > > and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> > > suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> > >
> > > I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> > > do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> > > change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> > > I do a complete water change?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >

[Wayne Sallee]

You say yellow, but is it more of a golden brown?
Golden brown would be diatoms.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



wrote on 1/16/2007 11:53 PM:
> Yes I have a 24x7 protein skimmer and the first 2 days it collects some
> dark green junk water in it that I poured down the toilet.
>
> I paniclly changed water 100% last week but today the yellow tint stuff
> came back! The live rocks are now covered with some yellow stuff that I
> don't know the name.
>
> Is this all normal? This time I didnt do water change but use some
> bathtissue to wipe the yellow tint off the acrylic. It is better than
> last week but I am still worried. Is this normal? The substrate are
> covered with brown stuff too.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> TheRock wrote:
>> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
>> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
>> overnight.
>>
>> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
>> all yet.
>> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
>> running a
>> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>>>
>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
>>> I do a complete water change?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>

[[email protected]]

It is brownish, closer to the 2nd o color of "Google" logo above. Is it
harmful?

Thanks!
Wayne Sallee wrote:
> You say yellow, but is it more of a golden brown?
> Golden brown would be diatoms.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
>
> wrote on 1/16/2007 11:53 PM:
> > Yes I have a 24x7 protein skimmer and the first 2 days it collects some
> > dark green junk water in it that I poured down the toilet.
> >
> > I paniclly changed water 100% last week but today the yellow tint stuff
> > came back! The live rocks are now covered with some yellow stuff that I
> > don't know the name.
> >
> > Is this all normal? This time I didnt do water change but use some
> > bathtissue to wipe the yellow tint off the acrylic. It is better than
> > last week but I am still worried. Is this normal? The substrate are
> > covered with brown stuff too.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > TheRock wrote:
> >> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
> >> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
> >> overnight.
> >>
> >> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
> >> all yet.
> >> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
> >> running a
> >> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
> >>
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> >>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> >>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> >>>
> >>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> >>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> >>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> >>> I do a complete water change?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >

[Wayne Sallee]

No it's not harmful. It's just diatoms.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



wrote on 1/17/2007 12:25 AM:
> It is brownish, closer to the 2nd o color of "Google" logo above. Is it
> harmful?
>
> Thanks!
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> You say yellow, but is it more of a golden brown?
>> Golden brown would be diatoms.
>>
>> Wayne Sallee
>> Wayne's Pets
>>
>>
>>
>> wrote on 1/16/2007 11:53 PM:
>>> Yes I have a 24x7 protein skimmer and the first 2 days it collects some
>>> dark green junk water in it that I poured down the toilet.
>>>
>>> I paniclly changed water 100% last week but today the yellow tint stuff
>>> came back! The live rocks are now covered with some yellow stuff that I
>>> don't know the name.
>>>
>>> Is this all normal? This time I didnt do water change but use some
>>> bathtissue to wipe the yellow tint off the acrylic. It is better than
>>> last week but I am still worried. Is this normal? The substrate are
>>> covered with brown stuff too.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>> TheRock wrote:
>>>> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
>>>> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
>>>> overnight.
>>>>
>>>> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
>>>> all yet.
>>>> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
>>>> running a
>>>> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ups.com...
>>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
>>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
>>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>>>>>
>>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
>>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
>>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
>>>>> I do a complete water change?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>

[[email protected]]

Thanks! I wiped the brown stuff from the acrylic and so far they
haven't come back in 2 days. The water is still clear and I just put in
some polyps I bought.

One more dummie question, do polyps retract their soft 'arms' in
shippment (mine is bought from ebay and shipping took 2 days)? This
morning I started to see some red and green things growing. How long
will they grow to be like 1inch long?

Thank you.

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> No it's not harmful. It's just diatoms.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
>
> wrote on 1/17/2007 12:25 AM:
> > It is brownish, closer to the 2nd o color of "Google" logo above. Is it
> > harmful?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Wayne Sallee wrote:
> >> You say yellow, but is it more of a golden brown?
> >> Golden brown would be diatoms.
> >>
> >> Wayne Sallee
> >> Wayne's Pets
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> wrote on 1/16/2007 11:53 PM:
> >>> Yes I have a 24x7 protein skimmer and the first 2 days it collects some
> >>> dark green junk water in it that I poured down the toilet.
> >>>
> >>> I paniclly changed water 100% last week but today the yellow tint stuff
> >>> came back! The live rocks are now covered with some yellow stuff that I
> >>> don't know the name.
> >>>
> >>> Is this all normal? This time I didnt do water change but use some
> >>> bathtissue to wipe the yellow tint off the . It is better than
> >>> last week but I am still worried. Is this normal? The substrate are
> >>> covered with brown stuff too.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> TheRock wrote:
> >>>> Your tank is cycling...if you're seriously going to get into this hobby
> >>>> one thing you need to learn up front is patience. Nothing happens
> >>>> overnight.
> >>>>
> >>>> You rock takes months to cure. You should not have changed your water at
> >>>> all yet.
> >>>> Do you have a protein skimmer ? While you're curing rock you should be
> >>>> running a
> >>>> protein skimmer 24/7 7 days a week. Smells good I bet : )
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > wrote in message
> >>>> ups.com...
> >>>>> I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> >>>>> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> >>>>> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> >>>>> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> >>>>> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> >>>>> I do a complete water change?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>
> >

[Gill Passman]

wrote:

>
> One more dummie question, do polyps retract their soft 'arms' in
> shippment (mine is bought from ebay and shipping took 2 days)? This
> morning I started to see some red and green things growing. How long
> will they grow to be like 1inch long?
>

Whenever I've bought any at my LFS they retract in transit (maybe in
fear from my driving - lol) - the longest I've waited was around 6 weeks
with some Green Star Polyps, who just hated the water conditions (trace
of phosphate) - once I fixed the problem they slowly started emerging
again....the normal for me has been a day or so....

What sort of corals are they? The growth rate will depend on the type of
coral and your water conditions....

Gill (another newbie)

[[email protected]]

They're red zoanthids and and green bay packers zoanthids (what a cool
name for this one). Well, I guess I will give it some patience..

Gill Passman wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >
> > One more dummie question, do polyps retract their soft 'arms' in
> > shippment (mine is bought from ebay and shipping took 2 days)? This
> > morning I started to see some red and green things growing. How long
> > will they grow to be like 1inch long?
> >
>
> Whenever I've bought any at my LFS they retract in transit (maybe in
> fear from my driving - lol) - the longest I've waited was around 6 weeks
> with some Green Star Polyps, who just hated the water conditions (trace
> of phosphate) - once I fixed the problem they slowly started emerging
> again....the normal for me has been a day or so....
>
> What sort of corals are they? The growth rate will depend on the type of
> coral and your water conditions....
>
> Gill (another newbie)

[Gill Passman]

wrote:
> They're red zoanthids and and green bay packers zoanthids (what a cool
> name for this one). Well, I guess I will give it some patience..
>

I've got a colony of green zoos....the LFS sometimes has some sparser
colonies where you get the "stalk" affect so to speak...(is this what
you are expecting?). The one I have is pretty tightly packed so looks
more like a mound and without disturbing them I couldn't really tell the
length of the stalks so to speak....(and you probably do not really want
to go disturbing zoo's too much as I've read stuff about their toxicity
when in defense mode)...When you look at the polyps are they open or do
they look like clenched up balls? Mine clenched up when I had the
phosphate problem so it might be worth testing for phosphates if this is
the case.

But as I said, I'm a newbie too so am only giving you what I have
seen....others probably have far more experience to tell you what is
"normal" with zoos...

Gill

[swarvegorilla]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>I just bought a 25gallon aquarium about a week ago and put the substate
> and live rock in it. I haven't put coral and fish in and today I
> suddenly found the water turned yellow!
>
> I have pumps (Rio 800) running and using Biological filter calls.. What
> do you guys think the problem come from? I changed water (about 60%
> change) today but still feel water is yellow. What do you think? Shall
> I do a complete water change?
>
> Thanks!
>

prob just seaweed rotting off live rock and releasing tannins
chuck a skimmer on there and let the cycle run itself thru