Levels Getting Worse.....

[JB]

I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and Neutralize
the Nitrates and Nitrites..

So far I have the following...

Nitrate = 40ppm

Nitrite = 5.0ppm

Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)

Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)

PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)

Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..

My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
don't know what to do...

[Tristan]

No comment!

On 17 Jan 2007 07:57:21 -0800, "JB" > wrote:

<<>>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
<<>>on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
<<>>completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and Neutralize
<<>>the Nitrates and Nitrites..
<<>>
<<>>So far I have the following...
<<>>
<<>>Nitrate = 40ppm
<<>>
<<>>Nitrite = 5.0ppm
<<>>
<<>>Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)
<<>>
<<>>Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)
<<>>
<<>>PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)
<<>>
<<>>Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
<<>>have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
<<>>the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
<<>>etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..
<<>>
<<>>My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
<<>>this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
<<>>don't know what to do...



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

Your tank is still cycling....patience is the key here (it can take
weeks) and making sure that levels don't kill the fish

Gill

[Zebulon]

"JB" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
> on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
> completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and Neutralize
> the Nitrates and Nitrites..
>
> So far I have the following...
>
> Nitrate = 40ppm
>
> Nitrite = 5.0ppm
>
> Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)
>
> Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)
>
> PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)
>
> Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
> have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
> the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
> etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..
>
> My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
> this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
> don't know what to do...
=============================
For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes. Don't
disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to hang
on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tynk]

Zëbulon wrote:
>
> =============================
> For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes. Don't
> disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to hang
> on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.
> --
> ZB....

Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.
The nitrifying bacteria secrete a glue like substance and adhere to
every surface. They are NOT going anywhere. Vacuuming gravel isn't
going to budge them.
It would do more harm to the health of the tank *not* to vacuum during
a cycle.

[Don Freeman]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ps.com...

> Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.

I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about getting
back into keeping tropical fish. I had been a fairly avid hobbyist about 35
years ago, and am amazed at the advancements in the knowledge available. I
had never even heard of cycling a tank back then, I had pH testing, a couple
of anti-bacterial and fungal treatments and that's about all. At least from
what I remember.

So it looks like I have quite a bit to learn before getting too involved.
One thing that would help is a step by step guide on setting up a new tank
so that all the details (such as the one above regarding vacuuming the
gravel during the cycling period) are delineated and put in their proper
perspective within the process. Is there a consensus in the group as the
most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or web page)
for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?

BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and (except
for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way in which the
discussions are presented.

Thanks,
-Don
--
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time)

[Tristan]

This is erroneous info. Getting rid of any accumulated junk in the
gravel is to your advantage and vac the gravel is not going to hurt a
thing. It will do more good than bad. Your not gonna suck out any
bacteria with a vac of the gravel.....thats for sure! Crude in a
gravelbed ina FW system is bad......crude in the substrate of a
sal****er suysten is beneficial. You have freshwater system, so get
rid ofg any junk as its working against your efforts.

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:32:43 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"JB" > wrote in message
oups.com...
<<>>>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
<<>>> on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
<<>>> completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and Neutralize
<<>>> the Nitrates and Nitrites..
<<>>>
<<>>> So far I have the following...
<<>>>
<<>>> Nitrate = 40ppm
<<>>>
<<>>> Nitrite = 5.0ppm
<<>>>
<<>>> Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)
<<>>>
<<>>> Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)
<<>>>
<<>>> PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)
<<>>>
<<>>> Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
<<>>> have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
<<>>> the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
<<>>> etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..
<<>>>
<<>>> My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
<<>>> this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
<<>>> don't know what to do...
<<>>=============================
<<>>For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes. Don't
<<>>disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to hang
<<>>on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

YOU bwil stil have a indicatin of ammonia, nitrate and nitrite even
when yu use Amquel. Its still there and will show on a test, but its
locked up and rendered safe........it can take quite a few water
changes to eliminate that indication your getting., I would lay off
adding amny more Amquell.....Just the va of gravel, and really by now
there should not be anything left to gravel......but it wil not hurt,
doing it and as a means of pulling out water to make room for a water
change addition. Continue laying off feed.....Those fish are not gong
to starve.........

Why is it you do not have an ammonia test kit?

Just work at getting the nitrate and nitrite levels and ammonia whewre
they need to be. None of the other readings are gona do in the fish
in a hurry and can be worked on after yu get this tank up and cycled
right. Its never a good idea to make too many changes all at once and
what your doing now is fine.......


On 17 Jan 2007 07:57:21 -0800, "JB" > wrote:

<<>>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
<<>>on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
<<>>completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and Neutralize
<<>>the Nitrates and Nitrites..
<<>>
<<>>So far I have the following...
<<>>
<<>>Nitrate = 40ppm
<<>>
<<>>Nitrite = 5.0ppm
<<>>
<<>>Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)
<<>>
<<>>Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)
<<>>
<<>>PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)
<<>>
<<>>Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
<<>>have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
<<>>the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
<<>>etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..
<<>>
<<>>My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
<<>>this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
<<>>don't know what to do...



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

Carol........SHUT THE HELL UP >>>>>>>>>>you clueless jerk!


On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:38:02 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
ps.com...
<<>>
<<>>Zëbulon wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> =============================
<<>>> For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes. Don't
<<>>> disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to
<<>>> hang
<<>>> on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.
<<>>> --
<<>>> ZB....
<<>>
<<>>Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.
<<>>
<<>>That's not what I was told to do unless there was decomposing food on it.
<<>>And that advice has always worked for me. :-)
<<>>
<<>>The nitrifying bacteria secrete a glue like substance and adhere to
<<>>every surface. They are NOT going anywhere. Vacuuming gravel isn't
<<>>going to budge them.
<<>>
<<>>Then vacuum it. I'll do as I've always done since it works so well for me.
<<>>
<<>>It would do more harm to the health of the tank *not* to vacuum during
<<>>a cycle.
<<>>
<<>>True, if there is uneaten food or decaying plants lying on it. It's
<<>>whatever works for YOU. What works BEST for me is to feed lightly and do
<<>>enough partial water changes to keep the the ammonia/nitrites at not lethal
<<>>levels until the cycle is finished.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ps.com...

Zëbulon wrote:
>
> =============================
> For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes. Don't
> disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to
> hang
> on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.
> --
> ZB....

Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.

That's not what I was told to do unless there was decomposing food on it.
And that advice has always worked for me. :-)

The nitrifying bacteria secrete a glue like substance and adhere to
every surface. They are NOT going anywhere. Vacuuming gravel isn't
going to budge them.

Then vacuum it. I'll do as I've always done since it works so well for me.

It would do more harm to the health of the tank *not* to vacuum during
a cycle.

True, if there is uneaten food or decaying plants lying on it. It's
whatever works for YOU. What works BEST for me is to feed lightly and do
enough partial water changes to keep the the ammonia/nitrites at not lethal
levels until the cycle is finished.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

Most posts are fine, and folks get correct answers, that is unless its
Zebulon and her canned erroneous replies, which are not even in the
ballgame in lots of circumstances. One wold be welladvised on
utilizing any info Zebulon or whatever nym she changes to as her info
has a track record of being WRONG.....Strick with Tynk Carls, Gill
and a few of the others, they are dead on in being correct.



On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:03:49 -0800, "Don Freeman" >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
ps.com...
<<>>
<<>>> Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.
<<>>
<<>>I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about getting
<<>>back into keeping tropical fish. I had been a fairly avid hobbyist about 35
<<>>years ago, and am amazed at the advancements in the knowledge available. I
<<>>had never even heard of cycling a tank back then, I had pH testing, a couple
<<>>of anti-bacterial and fungal treatments and that's about all. At least from
<<>>what I remember.
<<>>
<<>>So it looks like I have quite a bit to learn before getting too involved.
<<>>One thing that would help is a step by step guide on setting up a new tank
<<>>so that all the details (such as the one above regarding vacuuming the
<<>>gravel during the cycling period) are delineated and put in their proper
<<>>perspective within the process. Is there a consensus in the group as the
<<>>most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or web page)
<<>>for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?
<<>>
<<>>BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and (except
<<>>for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way in which the
<<>>discussions are presented.
<<>>
<<>>Thanks,
<<>>-Don



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Don Freeman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>
>> Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.
>
> I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about getting
> back into keeping tropical fish. I had been a fairly avid hobbyist about
> 35 years ago, and am amazed at the advancements in the knowledge
> available. I had never even heard of cycling a tank back then, I had pH
> testing, a couple of anti-bacterial and fungal treatments and that's about
> all. At least from what I remember.

I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are unbelievable
over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The new
knowledge is everywhere.

> So it looks like I have quite a bit to learn before getting too involved.
> One thing that would help is a step by step guide on setting up a new tank
> so that all the details (such as the one above regarding vacuuming the
> gravel during the cycling period) are delineated and put in their proper
> perspective within the process.

Keep in mind what works the best for one person and their set up and
conditions, may not for another.

Is there a consensus in the group as the
> most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or web
> page) for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?
>
> BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and
> (except for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way in
> which the discussions are presented.

Hang out and learn......... we all are! :-)

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:42:00 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Don Freeman" > wrote in message
...
<<>>>
<<>>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
<<>>> ps.com...
<<>>>
<<>>>> Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.
<<>>>
<<>>> I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about getting
<<>>> back into keeping tropical fish. I had been a fairly avid hobbyist about
<<>>> 35 years ago, and am amazed at the advancements in the knowledge
<<>>> available. I had never even heard of cycling a tank back then, I had pH
<<>>> testing, a couple of anti-bacterial and fungal treatments and that's about
<<>>> all. At least from what I remember.
<<>>
<<>>I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are unbelievable
<<>>over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The new
<<>>knowledge is everywhere.

Then why do you continually give bad advice Carol? Maybe y need to
buy a few magazines and follow your own advice.....but your info sucks
big time that you give. Your totally clueless and ingnorant in what yu
advise others to do.

<<>>
<<>>> So it looks like I have quite a bit to learn before getting too involved.
<<>>> One thing that would help is a step by step guide on setting up a new tank
<<>>> so that all the details (such as the one above regarding vacuuming the
<<>>> gravel during the cycling period) are delineated and put in their proper
<<>>> perspective within the process.
<<>>
<<>>Keep in mind what works the best for one person and their set up and
<<>>conditions, may not for another.

Yes, but your so far out in left fild most times and thats where the
difference lay. Seems odd a person inthe UK can give advice top a
problem a person has and it gets remidied, and that can be applied to
virtually all, yet when you r caught giving erroneous crapout like you
do your comeback is well it works for me. For some reason or other, I
would certainly not want to do anythng you recomemnd on that kind of
thought process, as its bound to be hazzardous to more than it helps.
<<>>
<<>>Is there a consensus in the group as the
<<>>> most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or web
<<>>> page) for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?

Just because its on th einternet to lots of foks means it has tor be
right. But then look at folks like carol aka Zebulon. She has a
website and she frequents forums, and is always handing out erroneous
info......Hang around the forums and it does not take long to see who
is giving good info and who is full of **** like CArol and a few of
her supporters of plagarism.
<<>>>
<<>>> BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and
<<>>> (except for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way in
<<>>> which the discussions are presented.
<<>>
<<>>Hang out and learn......... we all are! :-)
Too bad carol your not hanging, like your buddy Ed Alston
contemplated doing in the suicide groups. Now all the tweo of you do
is trash and make problems for any groups you all decide to hang out
in.




-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[atomweaver]

"Don Freeman" > wrote in
:

> I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about
> getting back into keeping tropical fish. I had been a fairly avid
> hobbyist about 35 years ago, and am amazed at the advancements in the
> knowledge available. I had never even heard of cycling a tank back
> then, I had pH testing, a couple of anti-bacterial and fungal
> treatments and that's about all. At least from what I remember.
>
> So it looks like I have quite a bit to learn before getting too
> involved. One thing that would help is a step by step guide on setting
> up a new tank so that all the details (such as the one above regarding
> vacuuming the gravel during the cycling period) are delineated and put
> in their proper perspective within the process. Is there a consensus
> in the group as the most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide
> (either printed or web page) for setting up a new tank geared toward
> the new hobbyist?
>
> BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and
> (except for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way
> in which the discussions are presented.
>
> Thanks,
> -Don

Hi Don,

I highly reccomend Netmax's site;

http://www.netmax.tk/

Its a very easy read, and has sound, up to date advice. The left hand
side of his main page is a list of links by subject, and running through
them in order will get you up t ospeed

There is also a link at the bottom of that list which might interest
you, called "whats changed in 30 years". It kind of gives a fast
history of the major innovations that have changed the face of the hobby
since you left.

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Don Freeman]

"atomweaver" > wrote in message
...
> "Don Freeman" > wrote in
> :
>
>> I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about
>> getting back into keeping tropical fish. > Hi Don,
>
> I highly reccomend Netmax's site;
>
> http://www.netmax.tk/
>
> There is also a link at the bottom of that list which might interest
> you, called "whats changed in 30 years".
>
How ironic, as well as informative. Thanks for the link, I will dedicate
some time to reading it. I am not impatient with getting setup with fish
and I like planting anyway so waiting for the tank to cycle won't be a
hardship.
-Don

[Gill Passman]

Don Freeman wrote:
> I am not impatient with getting setup with fish
> and I like planting anyway so waiting for the tank to cycle won't be a
> hardship.
> -Don
>


BTW I hope that you are aware...but until you either add the fish in or
another source of ammonia your tank won't begin to cycle even if you
have the plants in there....the water and environment may well mature
but this is not the same thing....

Gill

[Don Freeman]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Don Freeman wrote:
>> I am not impatient with getting setup with fish and I like planting
>> anyway so waiting for the tank to cycle won't be a hardship.
>> -Don
>
>
> BTW I hope that you are aware...but until you either add the fish in or
> another source of ammonia your tank won't begin to cycle even if you have
> the plants in there....the water and environment may well mature but this
> is not the same thing....
>
There is obviously a lot I am unaware of, but I intend to do a lot more
reading and other research before attempting this. So, hopefully, I will be
a lot more informed at the time I start.

[Gill Passman]

Don Freeman wrote:

>>
>
> There is obviously a lot I am unaware of, but I intend to do a lot more
> reading and other research before attempting this. So, hopefully, I will be
> a lot more informed at the time I start.
>
>
I hope that I didn't come across as beating on you because that wasn't
the intention...the fact that you are posting on a group such as rafm
shows that you are indeed all about learning....

I would suggest you go and do some reading on the following sites:-

http://faq.thekrib.com
http://www.netmax.tk
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com

and Carl's website blogs....which I can't find a link for general access
to at the moment but I'm pretty sure he will provide it....

All of these will give you a good starting base....but you WILL have
follow up questions so feel free to ask....

Gill

[Don Freeman]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Don Freeman wrote:
>
>> There is obviously a lot I am unaware of,
> I hope that I didn't come across as beating on you because that wasn't

I did not take your response that way at all, and thanks for the links.

--
-Don
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time)

[reefcrafter]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Carol........SHUT THE HELL UP >>>>>>>>>>you clueless jerk!


Moved your trolling to this group now? How many more groups are you going
to destroy before you get it through your thick skull that you can't
terrorize people off these groups for your own warped gratification? Use
your killfile.

[reefcrafter]

Before Tristan Roy Hauer destroys your group as he did rec.ponds and the
reef group you can complain here. Include the whole header and mail to:

X-Complaints-To:


"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:42:00 -0600, Zëbulon >
> wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Don Freeman" > wrote in message
> ...
> <<>>>
> <<>>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> <<>>> ps.com...
> <<>>>
> <<>>>> Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling
> period.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about
> getting
> <<>>> back into keeping tropical fish. I had been a fairly avid hobbyist
> about
> <<>>> 35 years ago, and am amazed at the advancements in the knowledge
> <<>>> available. I had never even heard of cycling a tank back then, I
> had pH
> <<>>> testing, a couple of anti-bacterial and fungal treatments and that's
> about
> <<>>> all. At least from what I remember.
> <<>>
> <<>>I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are
> unbelievable
> <<>>over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The
> new
> <<>>knowledge is everywhere.
>
> Then why do you continually give bad advice Carol? Maybe y need to
> buy a few magazines and follow your own advice.....but your info sucks
> big time that you give. Your totally clueless and ingnorant in what yu
> advise others to do.
>
> <<>>
> <<>>> So it looks like I have quite a bit to learn before getting too
> involved.
> <<>>> One thing that would help is a step by step guide on setting up a
> new tank
> <<>>> so that all the details (such as the one above regarding vacuuming
> the
> <<>>> gravel during the cycling period) are delineated and put in their
> proper
> <<>>> perspective within the process.
> <<>>
> <<>>Keep in mind what works the best for one person and their set up and
> <<>>conditions, may not for another.
>
> Yes, but your so far out in left fild most times and thats where the
> difference lay. Seems odd a person inthe UK can give advice top a
> problem a person has and it gets remidied, and that can be applied to
> virtually all, yet when you r caught giving erroneous crapout like you
> do your comeback is well it works for me. For some reason or other, I
> would certainly not want to do anythng you recomemnd on that kind of
> thought process, as its bound to be hazzardous to more than it helps.
> <<>>
> <<>>Is there a consensus in the group as the
> <<>>> most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or
> web
> <<>>> page) for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?
>
> Just because its on th einternet to lots of foks means it has tor be
> right. But then look at folks like carol aka Zebulon. She has a
> website and she frequents forums, and is always handing out erroneous
> info......Hang around the forums and it does not take long to see who
> is giving good info and who is full of **** like CArol and a few of
> her supporters of plagarism.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and
> <<>>> (except for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way
> in
> <<>>> which the discussions are presented.
> <<>>
> <<>>Hang out and learn......... we all are! :-)
> Too bad carol your not hanging, like your buddy Ed Alston
> contemplated doing in the suicide groups. Now all the tweo of you do
> is trash and make problems for any groups you all decide to hang out
> in.
>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tynk]

Zëbulon wrote:

>
> I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are unbelievable
> over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The new
> knowledge is everywhere.


This is why I posted the current information about nitrifying bacteria
being sticky and adhering to the surfaces like glue. This *IS* the
current info.
If you take your own advice and pick up the January issue of Tropical
Fish Hobbyist magazine, you will read for yourself how sticky the
nitrifying bacteria are.
>

>
> Keep in mind what works the best for one person and their set up and
> conditions, may not for another.

Yes, that is true. However, new found information that is completely
different than once was thought can only benifit the hobbyist, and
mostly, the fish. Hence the reason for vacuuming during the cycling
period.

>
> Is there a consensus in the group as the
> > most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or web
> > page) for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?
> >
> > BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and
> > (except for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way in
> > which the discussions are presented.
>
> Hang out and learn......... we all are! :-)

That's good advice.
Seriously though, January's issue of TFH. This information about the
bacteria secreting a very sticky substance was only recently found
out...like within the past decade.
I too once thought if you vacuumed during the cycle you'd be removing
the bacteria. I also once thought that adding old tank water to a new
tank transfered some too. It does not, as the bacteria do not float
about in the water.
Some also thought that if you squeeze out a filter pad from an
established tank into a new tank that you would be "seeding" the new
tank. It does not. It only adds gunk.
I realize you've been in the hobby since the 1950's, but this is the
current information.
Science is an amazing subject that never gets dull.

[carlrs]

Gill Passman wrote:
> Don Freeman wrote:
>
> >>
> >
> > There is obviously a lot I am unaware of, but I intend to do a lot more
> > reading and other research before attempting this. So, hopefully, I will be
> > a lot more informed at the time I start.
> >
> >
> I hope that I didn't come across as beating on you because that wasn't
> the intention...the fact that you are posting on a group such as rafm
> shows that you are indeed all about learning....
>
> I would suggest you go and do some reading on the following sites:-
>
> http://faq.thekrib.com
> http://www.netmax.tk
> http://www.skepticalaquarist.com
>
> and Carl's website blogs....which I can't find a link for general access
> to at the moment but I'm pretty sure he will provide it....
>
> All of these will give you a good starting base....but you WILL have
> follow up questions so feel free to ask....
>
> Gill

Thanks gill, I have two; My personal site with my full articles that
are up dated regularly especially as I find new research (including a
link to my answers blog with regular posts) is:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Information.html

My other is a blog with links to many of my more abbreviated blog
aquarium and pond info, but this one has more outside directory links
and links to other info sites such as NetMax, The Krib, and Cichlid
Research:
http://aquarium-info.blogspot.com/

Carl

[Zebulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...

Zëbulon wrote:

>
> I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are unbelievable
> over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The new
> knowledge is everywhere.


This is why I posted the current information about nitrifying bacteria
being sticky and adhering to the surfaces like glue. This *IS* the
current info.

No one said it wasn't. ;-)

If you take your own advice and pick up the January issue of Tropical
Fish Hobbyist magazine, you will read for yourself how sticky the
nitrifying bacteria are.

I'm retired and my husband is semi-retired. If that magazine had something
other than adds, salt water articles and a very few fresh water articles I
would pay the price for it. Otherwise it can stay on the shelf at the pet
store. ;-) I've dropped all the Fish magazines due to the price and fact
they all seem to cater to the sw crowd. It was to where the few fresh water
articles seemed to cover the same topics over and over. But someone new or
getting back into the hobby after may years would probably find them
helpful.

> Keep in mind what works the best for one person and their set up and
> conditions, may not for another.

Yes, that is true. However, new found information that is completely
different than once was thought can only benifit the hobbyist, and
mostly, the fish. Hence the reason for vacuuming during the cycling
period.


> Is there a consensus in the group as the
> > most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or web
> > page) for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?
> >
> > BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and
> > (except for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way in
> > which the discussions are presented.
>
> Hang out and learn......... we all are! :-)

That's good advice.
Seriously though, January's issue of TFH. This information about the
bacteria secreting a very sticky substance was only recently found
out...like within the past decade.

Perhaps I was told that because if you remove the small amount of fish feces
on the gravel there's nothing for the bacteria to feed on that establishes
the cycle in the tank. I don't know... but it does work for me. YMMV.
But then I do a lot of partial water changes in a new setup until the
ammonia and nitrites are zero. Most of the time the seeded filter works and
there is no cycle to speak of. For some odd reason that sometimes fails
completely. :-(

I too once thought if you vacuumed during the cycle you'd be removing
the bacteria. I also once thought that adding old tank water to a new
tank transfered some too. It does not, as the bacteria do not float
about in the water.

That seems to be well known now for awhile.

Some also thought that if you squeeze out a filter pad from an
established tank into a new tank that you would be "seeding" the new
tank. It does not. It only adds gunk.
I realize you've been in the hobby since the 1950's, but this is the
current information.
Science is an amazing subject that never gets dull.

This is very true.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tynk]

Zëbulon wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> Zëbulon wrote:
>
> >
> > I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are unbelievable
> > over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The new
> > knowledge is everywhere.
>
>
> This is why I posted the current information about nitrifying bacteria
> being sticky and adhering to the surfaces like glue. This *IS* the
> current info.
>
> No one said it wasn't. ;-)
>

This is why I posted about it adhering to the surfaces like glue:
Your comment made it seem that you thought this way.....

From: Zëbulon - view profile
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2007 11:32 am
Email: Zëbulon >
Groups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Rating: (1 user)
show options
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author



"JB" > wrote in message


oups.com...


- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
> on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
> completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and Neutralize
> the Nitrates and Nitrites..

> So far I have the following...


> Nitrate = 40ppm


> Nitrite = 5.0ppm


> Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)


> Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)


> PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)


> Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
> have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
> the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
> etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..


> My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
> this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
> don't know what to do...



=============================
For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes.
Don't
disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to
hang
on and multiply.
>>>>

The "Don't disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria
are trying to hang on"....

Same with the filter media. It *Should* be rinsed out in old tank water
during a cycling period for the same reasons.
If you are going to cycle a tank with fish, the water, gravel and
filters need to be kept very clean.
It has nothing to do with the whole "what works for you may not work
for me" kind of thing.
This doesn't apply to this situation. It's not just a different way of
doing things.
Current science has discovered the old way just isn't what it was
thought to be.
Not vacuuming isn't a good thing during a cycling period.

[Tristan]

Oh look Ed Alston the suicide wacko has joined the group........Did
you gather up any more davron and other illegal drugs Ed. You should
have done like they suggested in the suicide group and thats use a
gun and end your miseable life.....Ed Alston who wants to take the one
way bus ride buts too cheap to buy what he needs......duh!

.....On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:28:34 -0600, "-|-=[LÈGIÖoN]=-|-"
> wrote:

<<>>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:36:28 -0600, Tristan
> wrote:
<<>>
<<>>Tristan Royl........SHUT THE HELL UP PYSYCHO .......... you clueless
<<>>twit!Better yet do us a favor and FOAD!
<<>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>Carol........SHUT THE HELL UP >>>>>>>>>>you clueless jerk!
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:38:02 -0600, Zëbulon >
<<>>>wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
ps.com...
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>Zëbulon wrote:
<<>>><<>>>
<<>>><<>>> =============================
<<>>><<>>> For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes. Don't
<<>>><<>>> disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to
<<>>><<>>> hang
<<>>><<>>> on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.
<<>>><<>>> --
<<>>><<>>> ZB....
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>That's not what I was told to do unless there was decomposing food on it.
<<>>><<>>And that advice has always worked for me. :-)
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>The nitrifying bacteria secrete a glue like substance and adhere to
<<>>><<>>every surface. They are NOT going anywhere. Vacuuming gravel isn't
<<>>><<>>going to budge them.
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>Then vacuum it. I'll do as I've always done since it works so well for me.
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>It would do more harm to the health of the tank *not* to vacuum during
<<>>><<>>a cycle.
<<>>><<>>
<<>>><<>>True, if there is uneaten food or decaying plants lying on it. It's
<<>>><<>>whatever works for YOU. What works BEST for me is to feed lightly and do
<<>>><<>>enough partial water changes to keep the the ammonia/nitrites at not lethal
<<>>><<>>levels until the cycle is finished.
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>-------
<<>>>I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>
<<>>Sponsored in part by:
<<>>The House of Santana©
<<>>The Santana Institute of Usenet Anonymity®
<<>>and Sock Puppetry.
<<>>Supporters of Your Local Newsgroups (SLN, Ltd.)
<<>>The A. L. Santana Plonk Foundation©
<<>>
<<>>and viewers like you.
<<>>
<<>>-= Have Gun, Will Travel. =-



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...

Zëbulon wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> Zëbulon wrote:
>
> >
> > I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are unbelievable
> > over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The new
> > knowledge is everywhere.
>
>
> This is why I posted the current information about nitrifying bacteria
> being sticky and adhering to the surfaces like glue. This *IS* the
> current info.
>
> No one said it wasn't. ;-)
>

This is why I posted about it adhering to the surfaces like glue:
Your comment made it seem that you thought this way.....

From: Zëbulon - view profile
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2007 11:32 am
Email: Zëbulon >
Groups: rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Rating: (1 user)
show options
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse | Find messages by this author



"JB" > wrote in message


oups.com...


- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
> on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
> completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and Neutralize
> the Nitrates and Nitrites..

> So far I have the following...


> Nitrate = 40ppm


> Nitrite = 5.0ppm


> Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)


> Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)


> PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)


> Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
> have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
> the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
> etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..


> My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
> this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
> don't know what to do...



=============================
For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes.
Don't
disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying to
hang
on and multiply.
>>>>

The "Don't disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria
are trying to hang on"....

I would think they were - wouldn't you? What are you vacuuming out of clean
gravel?


Same with the filter media. It *Should* be rinsed out in old tank water
during a cycling period for the same reasons.

And what exactly are you rinsing out of the filter material if the tank is a
new setup with the fish eating very little?

If you are going to cycle a tank with fish, the water, gravel and
filters need to be kept very clean.

I would think a new tank would have CLEAN gravel and filter material?!?!?!
What are you rinsing and vacuuming out in a new setup with a few lightly fed
fish?

It has nothing to do with the whole "what works for you may not work
for me" kind of thing.

Sure it does! It DOES work for me and has for years. Just because it
doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for me or someone else.

This doesn't apply to this situation. It's not just a different way of
doing things.

Then you do what works for YOU and I'll do what works best for ME.

Current science has discovered the old way just isn't what it was
thought to be.
Not vacuuming isn't a good thing during a cycling period.

If the fish are being well fed and there's food and feces on the bottom I
agree.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

CAROL....STFU and let those that know what the hell they are talking
about tell the folks with questiions what their answers are. You do
nothing but ad lib and confuse the issues, and create
turmoil.........go out in the street and play.

You contribue nothing to the awuaria groups and certainly are a
detractant in the human race as well.




-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

Too bad your not adept at constructing your own posts dumbass. Its
way to easy to forge and rearange what others state ....Typical for
carol and her typical sock puppets or Ed Alston the suicide freak!

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:09:16 -0600, "Roberta Rotidia"
> wrote:

<<>>Roy Tristan........SHUT THE HELL UP >>>>>>>>>>you clueless jerkoff troll! No
<<>>one cares about your flame war with disabled veterans and old ladies. take
<<>>it to email already.......... you go from group to group destroying them
<<>>with your toxic bull**** and negative vibes.
<<>>
<<>>Too bad Roy Tristan Hauer your not hanging, like your buddy Jabbers Santana
<<>>contemplated doing in the suicide groups elling the depressed to kill
<<>>themselves. Now all the tweo of you do
<<>>is trash and make problems for any groups you all decide to hang out
<<>>in.
<<>>
<<>>"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
<<>>> YOU bwil stil have a indicatin of ammonia, nitrate and nitrite even
<<>>> when yu use Amquel. Its still there and will show on a test, but its
<<>>> locked up and rendered safe........it can take quite a few water
<<>>> changes to eliminate that indication your getting., I would lay off
<<>>> adding amny more Amquell.....Just the va of gravel, and really by now
<<>>> there should not be anything left to gravel......but it wil not hurt,
<<>>> doing it and as a means of pulling out water to make room for a water
<<>>> change addition. Continue laying off feed.....Those fish are not gong
<<>>> to starve.........
<<>>>
<<>>> Why is it you do not have an ammonia test kit?
<<>>>
<<>>> Just work at getting the nitrate and nitrite levels and ammonia whewre
<<>>> they need to be. None of the other readings are gona do in the fish
<<>>> in a hurry and can be worked on after yu get this tank up and cycled
<<>>> right. Its never a good idea to make too many changes all at once and
<<>>> what your doing now is fine.......
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> On 17 Jan 2007 07:57:21 -0800, "JB" > wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> <<>>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste, cutting back
<<>>> <<>>on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much... I've
<<>>> <<>>completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and
<<>>Neutralize
<<>>> <<>>the Nitrates and Nitrites..
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>So far I have the following...
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Nitrate = 40ppm
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Nitrite = 5.0ppm
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th, and
<<>>> <<>>have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and with
<<>>> <<>>the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of algae,
<<>>> <<>>etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time... Sorry if
<<>>> <<>>this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update and I
<<>>> <<>>don't know what to do...
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Reefer]

TROLL ALERT!

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> CAROL....STFU and let those that know what the hell they are talking
> about tell the folks with questiions what their answers are. You do
> nothing but ad lib and confuse the issues, and create
> turmoil.........go out in the street and play.
>
> You contribue nothing to the awuaria groups and certainly are a
> detractant in the human race as well.
>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tynk]

Zëbulon wrote:

>
> It has nothing to do with the whole "what works for you may not work
> for me" kind of thing.
>
> Sure it does! It DOES work for me and has for years. Just because it
> doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for me or someone else.
>
> This doesn't apply to this situation. It's not just a different way of
> doing things.
>
> Then you do what works for YOU and I'll do what works best for ME.
>

Well,
Obviously once again you refuse to learn the current facts of the
hobby.
You are once again spreading false information out to folks who need to
be told the correct information.
You refuse to do any research, and act childish with your "you do what
works for you and I'll do what works for me"attitude.
Current science says what you are saying is wrong.
I'm sorry that you refuse to learn the current info in this great
hobby. That's sad.
Why would you want to keep telling people the wrong thing?
Isn't that a bit dumb?
You won't go read a published magazine that talks all about it and the
science behind it, because it costs $4.95.
How about using the computer you type into everyday to do a search on
it.
That's not going to cost you anything but a little effort.
What's a little effort when it comes to learning?
Here, I'll even give you a head start....
Research Nitrifying bacteria and Dr. Peter Strom.

[MarineLand]

Does your wife and Dr know you harass and stalk and slander old women and
vets in wheelchairs online? Get back on your Thorazine Roy Tristan Hauer
before eveyone knows what a lowlife scumbag you really are.

Your already looking damn bad in the eyes of the public what with
slandering old women and tormenting disabled vets. When you abuse others Roy
Hauer... others just may harass you. Get back on yor meds.

Tristan, the slandering net stalking psycho 4Fer is Roy Hauer.

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:42:00 -0600, Zëbulon >
> wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Don Freeman" > wrote in message
> ...
> <<>>>
> <<>>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> <<>>> ps.com...
> <<>>>
> <<>>>> Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling
period.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I started lurking here about a month ago as I was thinking about
getting
> <<>>> back into keeping tropical fish. I had been a fairly avid hobbyist
about
> <<>>> 35 years ago, and am amazed at the advancements in the knowledge
> <<>>> available. I had never even heard of cycling a tank back then, I
had pH
> <<>>> testing, a couple of anti-bacterial and fungal treatments and that's
about
> <<>>> all. At least from what I remember.
> <<>>
> <<>>I got my first aquarium in the early 1950s. The changes are
unbelievable
> <<>>over the years. Pick up some Fish magazines and search the web. The
new
> <<>>knowledge is everywhere.
>
> Then why do you continually give bad advice Carol? Maybe y need to
> buy a few magazines and follow your own advice.....but your info sucks
> big time that you give. Your totally clueless and ingnorant in what yu
> advise others to do.
>
> <<>>
> <<>>> So it looks like I have quite a bit to learn before getting too
involved.
> <<>>> One thing that would help is a step by step guide on setting up a
new tank
> <<>>> so that all the details (such as the one above regarding vacuuming
the
> <<>>> gravel during the cycling period) are delineated and put in their
proper
> <<>>> perspective within the process.
> <<>>
> <<>>Keep in mind what works the best for one person and their set up and
> <<>>conditions, may not for another.
>
> Yes, but your so far out in left fild most times and thats where the
> difference lay. Seems odd a person inthe UK can give advice top a
> problem a person has and it gets remidied, and that can be applied to
> virtually all, yet when you r caught giving erroneous crapout like you
> do your comeback is well it works for me. For some reason or other, I
> would certainly not want to do anythng you recomemnd on that kind of
> thought process, as its bound to be hazzardous to more than it helps.
> <<>>
> <<>>Is there a consensus in the group as the
> <<>>> most comprehensive, correct, and readable guide (either printed or
web
> <<>>> page) for setting up a new tank geared toward the new hobbyist?
>
> Just because its on th einternet to lots of foks means it has tor be
> right. But then look at folks like carol aka Zebulon. She has a
> website and she frequents forums, and is always handing out erroneous
> info......Hang around the forums and it does not take long to see who
> is giving good info and who is full of **** like CArol and a few of
> her supporters of plagarism.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> BTW, I am very impressed with the quality of posts in this group and
> <<>>> (except for a few notable but very rare occasions) the civilized way
in
> <<>>> which the discussions are presented.
> <<>>
> <<>>Hang out and learn......... we all are! :-)
> Too bad carol your not hanging, like your buddy Ed Alston
> contemplated doing in the suicide groups. Now all the tweo of you do
> is trash and make problems for any groups you all decide to hang out
> in.
>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[MarineLand]

Does your wife and Dr know you harass and stalk and slander old women and
vets in wheelchairs online? Get back on your Thorazine Roy Tristan Hauer....
before eveyone knows what a lowlife scumbag you really are. Not that theyre
not aware you have serious mentalk issues.

Your already looking damn bad in the eyes of the public what with
slandering old women and tormenting disabled vets. When you abuse others Roy
Hauer... others just may harass you. Get back on yor meds.

Tristan, the slandering net stalking psycho 4Fer is Roy Hauer.

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> CAROL....STFU and let those that know what the hell they are talking
> about tell the folks with questiions what their answers are. You do
> nothing but ad lib and confuse the issues, and create
> turmoil.........go out in the street and play.
>
> You contribue nothing to the awuaria groups and certainly are a
> detractant in the human race as well.
>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[MarineLand]

Does your Dr and wife know you harass and stalk and slander old women and
vets in wheelchairs online? Get back on your Thorazine Roy Tristan Hauer....
before eveyone knows what a lowlife scumbag you really are. Not that theyre
not aware you have serious mentalk issues.

Your already looking damn bad in the eyes of the public what with
slandering old women and tormenting disabled old vets. When you abuse and
troll others Roy Hauer... others just may just decide to harass you back.
Get back on yor meds.

Tristan, the slandering net stalking psycho 4Fer is Roy Hauer.

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Carol........SHUT THE HELL UP >>>>>>>>>>you clueless jerk!
>
>
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:38:02 -0600, Zëbulon >
> wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> <<>>
> <<>>Zëbulon wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> =============================
> <<>>> For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle finishes.
Don't
> <<>>> disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are tying
to
> <<>>> hang
> <<>>> on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.
> <<>>> --
> <<>>> ZB....
> <<>>
> <<>>Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling period.
> <<>>
> <<>>That's not what I was told to do unless there was decomposing food on
it.
> <<>>And that advice has always worked for me. :-)
> <<>>
> <<>>The nitrifying bacteria secrete a glue like substance and adhere to
> <<>>every surface. They are NOT going anywhere. Vacuuming gravel isn't
> <<>>going to budge them.
> <<>>
> <<>>Then vacuum it. I'll do as I've always done since it works so well
for me.
> <<>>
> <<>>It would do more harm to the health of the tank *not* to vacuum during
> <<>>a cycle.
> <<>>
> <<>>True, if there is uneaten food or decaying plants lying on it. It's
> <<>>whatever works for YOU. What works BEST for me is to feed lightly and
do
> <<>>enough partial water changes to keep the the ammonia/nitrites at not
lethal
> <<>>levels until the cycle is finished.
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[MarineLand]

How compassionate of you Roy Hauer and you being crazier than a ****house
rat on speed.


"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> Oh look Ed Alston the suicide wacko has joined the group........Did
> you gather up any more davron and other illegal drugs Ed. You should
> have done like they suggested in the suicide group and thats use a
> gun and end your miseable life.....Ed Alston who wants to take the one
> way bus ride buts too cheap to buy what he needs......duh!
>
> ....On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:28:34 -0600, "-|-=[LÈGIÖoN]=-|-"
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:36:28 -0600, Tristan
> > wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>Tristan Royl........SHUT THE HELL UP PYSYCHO .......... you clueless
> <<>>twit!Better yet do us a favor and FOAD!
> <<>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>Carol........SHUT THE HELL UP >>>>>>>>>>you clueless jerk!
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 14:38:02 -0600, Zëbulon >
> <<>>>wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>Zëbulon wrote:
> <<>>><<>>>
> <<>>><<>>> =============================
> <<>>><<>>> For now keep doing partial water changes until the cycle
finishes. Don't
> <<>>><<>>> disturb the gravel or filter material as the good bacteria are
tying to
> <<>>><<>>> hang
> <<>>><<>>> on and multiply. Keep feeding sparingly and keep us posted.
> <<>>><<>>> --
> <<>>><<>>> ZB....
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>Actually, they *should* vacuum the gravel during the cycling
period.
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>That's not what I was told to do unless there was decomposing
food on it.
> <<>>><<>>And that advice has always worked for me. :-)
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>The nitrifying bacteria secrete a glue like substance and adhere
to
> <<>>><<>>every surface. They are NOT going anywhere. Vacuuming gravel
isn't
> <<>>><<>>going to budge them.
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>Then vacuum it. I'll do as I've always done since it works so
well for me.
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>It would do more harm to the health of the tank *not* to vacuum
during
> <<>>><<>>a cycle.
> <<>>><<>>
> <<>>><<>>True, if there is uneaten food or decaying plants lying on it.
It's
> <<>>><<>>whatever works for YOU. What works BEST for me is to feed
lightly and do
> <<>>><<>>enough partial water changes to keep the the ammonia/nitrites at
not lethal
> <<>>><<>>levels until the cycle is finished.
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>-------
> <<>>>I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>
> <<>>Sponsored in part by:
> <<>>The House of Santana©
> <<>>The Santana Institute of Usenet Anonymity®
> <<>>and Sock Puppetry.
> <<>>Supporters of Your Local Newsgroups (SLN, Ltd.)
> <<>>The A. L. Santana Plonk Foundation©
> <<>>
> <<>>and viewers like you.
> <<>>
> <<>>-= Have Gun, Will Travel. =-
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[MarineLand]

Does your Dr and wife know you harass and stalk and slander old women and
vets in wheelchairs online? Get back on your Thorazine Roy Tristan Hauer....
before eveyone knows what a lowlife scumbag you really are. Not that theyre
not aware you have serious mentalk issues.

Your already looking damn bad in the eyes of the public what with
slandering old women and tormenting disabled old vets. When you abuse and
troll others Roy Hauer... others just may just decide to harass you back.
Get back on yor meds. Get back in treatments.

Tristan, the slandering net stalking psycho 4Fer is Roy Hauer.

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Too bad your not adept at constructing your own posts dumbass. Its
> way to easy to forge and rearange what others state ....Typical for
> carol and her typical sock puppets or Ed Alston the suicide freak!
>
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:09:16 -0600, "Roberta Rotidia"
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>Roy Tristan........SHUT THE HELL UP >>>>>>>>>>you clueless jerkoff
troll! No
> <<>>one cares about your flame war with disabled veterans and old ladies.
take
> <<>>it to email already.......... you go from group to group destroying
them
> <<>>with your toxic bull**** and negative vibes.
> <<>>
> <<>>Too bad Roy Tristan Hauer your not hanging, like your buddy Jabbers
Santana
> <<>>contemplated doing in the suicide groups elling the depressed to kill
> <<>>themselves. Now all the tweo of you do
> <<>>is trash and make problems for any groups you all decide to hang out
> <<>>in.
> <<>>
> <<>>"Tristan" > wrote in message
> ...
> <<>>> YOU bwil stil have a indicatin of ammonia, nitrate and nitrite even
> <<>>> when yu use Amquel. Its still there and will show on a test, but its
> <<>>> locked up and rendered safe........it can take quite a few water
> <<>>> changes to eliminate that indication your getting., I would lay off
> <<>>> adding amny more Amquell.....Just the va of gravel, and really by
now
> <<>>> there should not be anything left to gravel......but it wil not
hurt,
> <<>>> doing it and as a means of pulling out water to make room for a
water
> <<>>> change addition. Continue laying off feed.....Those fish are not
gong
> <<>>> to starve.........
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Why is it you do not have an ammonia test kit?
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Just work at getting the nitrate and nitrite levels and ammonia
whewre
> <<>>> they need to be. None of the other readings are gona do in the fish
> <<>>> in a hurry and can be worked on after yu get this tank up and cycled
> <<>>> right. Its never a good idea to make too many changes all at once
and
> <<>>> what your doing now is fine.......
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> On 17 Jan 2007 07:57:21 -0800, "JB" > wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>I tried the suggestions on vacuuming my gravel for waste,
cutting back
> <<>>> <<>>on my feeding to now once every other day and not very much...
I've
> <<>>> <<>>completed two 25% water changes, and added AmQuel to try and
> <<>>Neutralize
> <<>>> <<>>the Nitrates and Nitrites..
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>So far I have the following...
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Nitrate = 40ppm
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Nitrite = 5.0ppm
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Hardness = 150ppm (up from 75ppm from before)
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Alkalinity = 0 (yes Zero.. It was around 40ppm Just yesterday)
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>PH = 6.8 (down from 7.2)
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Now keeping in mind I did a 100% Water change last Tuesday 9th,
and
> <<>>> <<>>have three 2" sword tail fish & about 14 or so fry in a net and
with
> <<>>> <<>>the 100% change I cleaned all Decor & Gravel well, got rid of
algae,
> <<>>> <<>>etc.. I don't know what I'm missing or can do to fix my levels..
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>My fish are just kinda "hanging around" most of the time...
Sorry if
> <<>>> <<>>this seems like a identical repost, but it's more of an update
and I
> <<>>> <<>>don't know what to do...
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

On 18 Jan 2007 20:29:11 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:

<<>>
<<>>Zëbulon wrote:
<<>>
<<>>>
<<>>> It has nothing to do with the whole "what works for you may not work
<<>>> for me" kind of thing.
<<>>>
<<>>> Sure it does! It DOES work for me and has for years. Just because it
<<>>> doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for me or someone else.
<<>>>
<<>>> This doesn't apply to this situation. It's not just a different way of
<<>>> doing things.
<<>>>
<<>>> Then you do what works for YOU and I'll do what works best for ME.
<<>>>
<<>>
<<>>Well,
<<>>Obviously once again you refuse to learn the current facts of the
<<>>hobby.
<<>>You are once again spreading false information out to folks who need to
<<>>be told the correct information.
<<>>You refuse to do any research, and act childish with your "you do what
<<>>works for you and I'll do what works for me"attitude.
<<>>Current science says what you are saying is wrong.
<<>>I'm sorry that you refuse to learn the current info in this great
<<>>hobby. That's sad.
<<>>Why would you want to keep telling people the wrong thing?
<<>>Isn't that a bit dumb?
<<>>You won't go read a published magazine that talks all about it and the
<<>>science behind it, because it costs $4.95.
<<>>How about using the computer you type into everyday to do a search on
<<>>it.
<<>>That's not going to cost you anything but a little effort.
<<>>What's a little effort when it comes to learning?
<<>>Here, I'll even give you a head start....
<<>>Research Nitrifying bacteria and Dr. Peter Strom.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Larry Blanchard]

Tristan wrote:

>
<snip of bull****>
>

I see the mentally challenged trolls are back again. Must be a medication
shortage.

For those who wish to carry on a dialogue relevant to aquariums, join the
Google group "The Freshwater Aquarium." That's where most of us who didn't
want to put up with the degenerates have gone.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Gill Passman]

Don Freeman wrote:
> "Gill Passman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Don Freeman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There is obviously a lot I am unaware of,
>>
>>I hope that I didn't come across as beating on you because that wasn't
>
>
> I did not take your response that way at all, and thanks for the links.
>

Of course, if after reading the stuff on NetMax's site you want him to
help you out you can find him on the google group The Freshwater
Aquarium.....

http://groups.google.com/group/The-Freshwater-Aquarium/topics?lnk=li&hl=en

I must add that as a co-owner of this group I do have a vested interest
unlike those that pointed you at NetMax's site

Gill

[Tristan]

JB...accoding to instuctions on the bottle of Amquel I just read
yesterday AMQUEL + IIRC it staated in plain words....that ringers and
some other type test kits can not be used and expected to get correct
results when amquel is used. sop perhaps that is why you are getting
these high readings in additon to a new tank basically cycling.
Virtually all test kits fall into the two types mentioned.......and
you wil continue top pick up nitrate etc even though its locked up and
inert.....enough water changes down the line and it will drop to zero
as the amquel is diluted. Part and parcel of using amquel or any of
the locking type chemicals.


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Clams & Claws]

Posted by psychotic net stalker Roy "Tristan" Hauer to the Jehovahs Witness
religious newsgroup:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.255.242.132

"Carols Nightmare" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> hahahahaha, way to go **** head Carol, youscrewed up and neglected to
> make a few changes in the forged headers etc. Your loosing it
> carol............bye bye!


From: "Carols Nightmare" > aka Roy Tristan Hauer
Newsgroups: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn
Subject: Carol Gulleys coveted email addy.please do not
abuse it!
Date: 21 Jan 2007 19:48:53 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 4
Message-ID: om>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.255.242.132
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1169437738 23124 127.0.0.1 (22 Jan 2007 03:48:58
GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:48:58 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows
98),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
Complaints-To:

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> On 18 Jan 2007 20:29:11 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>Zëbulon wrote:
> <<>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> It has nothing to do with the whole "what works for you may not work
> <<>>> for me" kind of thing.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Sure it does! It DOES work for me and has for years. Just because
it
> <<>>> doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for me or someone
else.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> This doesn't apply to this situation. It's not just a different way
of
> <<>>> doing things.
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Then you do what works for YOU and I'll do what works best for ME.
> <<>>>
> <<>>
> <<>>Well,
> <<>>Obviously once again you refuse to learn the current facts of the
> <<>>hobby.
> <<>>You are once again spreading false information out to folks who need
to
> <<>>be told the correct information.
> <<>>You refuse to do any research, and act childish with your "you do what
> <<>>works for you and I'll do what works for me"attitude.
> <<>>Current science says what you are saying is wrong.
> <<>>I'm sorry that you refuse to learn the current info in this great
> <<>>hobby. That's sad.
> <<>>Why would you want to keep telling people the wrong thing?
> <<>>Isn't that a bit dumb?
> <<>>You won't go read a published magazine that talks all about it and the
> <<>>science behind it, because it costs $4.95.
> <<>>How about using the computer you type into everyday to do a search on
> <<>>it.
> <<>>That's not going to cost you anything but a little effort.
> <<>>What's a little effort when it comes to learning?
> <<>>Here, I'll even give you a head start....
> <<>>Research Nitrifying bacteria and Dr. Peter Strom.
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Clams & Claws]

Tristan spreads out to destroy more groups....
Posted by psychotic net stalker Roy "Tristan" Hauer to the Jehovahs Witness
religious newsgroup:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.255.242.132

"Carols Nightmare" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> hahahahaha, way to go **** head Carol, youscrewed up and neglected to
> make a few changes in the forged headers etc. Your loosing it
> carol............bye bye!


From: "Carols Nightmare" > aka Roy Tristan Hauer
Newsgroups: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn
Subject: Carol Gulleys coveted email addy.please do not
abuse it!
Date: 21 Jan 2007 19:48:53 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 4
Message-ID: om>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.255.242.132
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1169437738 23124 127.0.0.1 (22 Jan 2007 03:48:58
GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:48:58 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows
98),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
Complaints-To:

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> JB...accoding to instuctions on the bottle of Amquel I just read
> yesterday AMQUEL + IIRC it staated in plain words....that ringers and
> some other type test kits can not be used and expected to get correct
> results when amquel is used. sop perhaps that is why you are getting
> these high readings in additon to a new tank basically cycling.
> Virtually all test kits fall into the two types mentioned.......and
> you wil continue top pick up nitrate etc even though its locked up and
> inert.....enough water changes down the line and it will drop to zero
> as the amquel is diluted. Part and parcel of using amquel or any of
> the locking type chemicals.
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tynk]

On Jan 25, 11:22*pm, "Hotpoppa" > wrote:

Please do not drag me into your *thing* with Carol.
There's no need to change the subject title and use my screen name in a
direct jab at her.
I have nothing against her. So what that she may not be always correct.
Nobody is.
Somebody will correct any errors she may write, or any changes that may
need to be made.
Just like somebody will for anyone else who makes errors. In this case,
current research found that what we hobbyists who have been in the
hobby for many years used to think, is not correct anymore.
If you can't comment on fish related items, there's no need to comment
at all.
With all the crap going on now, it's probably scared off the orginal
poster who really needed help, how to's, and the current facts.
People keep cross posting bull crappy that doesn't belong on a fish
newsgroup!
So please, leave my name out of your Carol bashing! I have nothing to
do with it, nor do I want to.

[Tristan]

FYI the jerk you replied to is "CAROL"

On 26 Jan 2007 20:56:42 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:

<<>>
<<>>
<<>>On Jan 25, 11:220m, "Hotpoppa" > wrote:
<<>>
<<>>Please do not drag me into your *thing* with Carol.
<<>>There's no need to change the subject title and use my screen name in a
<<>>direct jab at her.
<<>>I have nothing against her. So what that she may not be always correct.
<<>>Nobody is.
<<>>Somebody will correct any errors she may write, or any changes that may
<<>>need to be made.
<<>>Just like somebody will for anyone else who makes errors. In this case,
<<>>current research found that what we hobbyists who have been in the
<<>>hobby for many years used to think, is not correct anymore.
<<>>If you can't comment on fish related items, there's no need to comment
<<>>at all.
<<>>With all the crap going on now, it's probably scared off the orginal
<<>>poster who really needed help, how to's, and the current facts.
<<>>People keep cross posting bull crappy that doesn't belong on a fish
<<>>newsgroup!
<<>>So please, leave my name out of your Carol bashing! I have nothing to
<<>>do with it, nor do I want to.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> FYI the jerk you replied to is "CAROL"
==========================
FEI - YOU Tristan are the one who poasted the original message using Tynk's
name.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

You lie carol I never posted any thing using tynks name. I do not
have your disgusting habits of forgery and nym shifts. Try again
bitch

On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:17:13 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> FYI the jerk you replied to is "CAROL"
<<>>==========================
<<>>FEI - YOU Tristan are the one who poasted the original message using Tynk's
<<>>name.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristan]

I remember what and who I post to. Its you that has too many socks
that can;t keep up with all the lies you tell and folks you **** off.
Your the one in need of help, and meds......maybe shop for a cut rate
doc like the one that took you for a ride when he so called butchered
you but in all reality did the world a favor by making you unable to
spawn more kids.
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 11:38:39 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> You lie carol I never posted any thing using tynks name. I do not
<<>>> have your disgusting habits of forgery and nym shifts. Try again
<<>>> bitch
<<>>
<<>>You're habitual LIAR Roy. This was the Sunject line *you* used:
<<>>
<<>>*Re: And CArol gets slapped down by Tynk, again, for the bad info she gives*
<<>>
<<>>You're so psychotic you don't even remember what you post from day to day.
<<>>SEEK HELP - go back to the VA and see your Dr.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> You lie carol I never posted any thing using tynks name. I do not
> have your disgusting habits of forgery and nym shifts. Try again
> bitch

You're habitual LIAR Roy. This was the Sunject line *you* used:

*Re: And CArol gets slapped down by Tynk, again, for the bad info she gives*

You're so psychotic you don't even remember what you post from day to day.
SEEK HELP - go back to the VA and see your Dr.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

You evidently missed my post:

You're habitual LIAR Roy. This was the Subject line *you* used:

*Re: And CArol gets slapped down by Tynk, again, for the bad info she gives*

You're so psychotic you don't even remember what you post from day to day.
SEEK HELP - go back to the VA and see your Dr.

<SNIP usual toxic waste>
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

Go get a real life instea dof a Cyber life carola nd while yur at it
quit trashing the groups every night in respinse to my posts made that
have not a freaking thing to do with yurs. YOur about as trashy an old
bitch as I have ever seen. Must be that carpet bagging motor cycle
slut coming out of you.

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:21:34 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
<<>>
<<>>You evidently missed my post:
<<>>
<<>>You're habitual LIAR Roy. This was the Subject line *you* used:
<<>>
<<>>*Re: And CArol gets slapped down by Tynk, again, for the bad info she gives*
<<>>
<<>>You're so psychotic you don't even remember what you post from day to day.
<<>>SEEK HELP - go back to the VA and see your Dr.
<<>>
<<>><SNIP usual toxic waste>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
<SNIP usual toxic waste>

I see you again missed my post:

You're habitual and pathological LIAR Roy. This was the Subject line *you*
used:

*Re: And CArol gets slapped down by Tynk, again, for the bad info she gives*

You're so psychotic you don't even remember what you post from day to day.

SEEK HELP - go back to the VA and see your Dr.

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>