It never ends

[Tynk]

Our small, local news paper has a "Pet Talk" section. Usually it's
about dogs, cats and birds.
Last Wednesday there was a small piece about fish tanks and how "A
slimey tank isn't a bad thing", but of course..the common myths had to
fly as well.
Their info came from a "Dr. Donald Lewis, professor in the Department
of pathobiology at the College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical
Sciences at Texas A&M University".
The artical goes on to say that most people buy a fish tank and add
the fish the same day.
Yes. This is often the first mistake newbies make.
However, he goes on to say that this "Instant plunge causes the fish
to secrete mucous as a way of protecting itself from the high level of
ammonia found in the tap water resulting from the breakdown of organic
matter."
Are you already saying "HUH?" I was. If you put a fish in a tank that
was set up the same day, why would it have high ammonia levels
already? What organic matter was breaking down?
The "Dr." goes on to explain to how to set up a tank for the first
time.
He suggests "an under gravel filter, gravel, rocks, and other
accessories. Then add water into the tank."
No mention of dechlorinator. I understand chlorine would dissipate,
however, chloramine does not.
Then he goes on to tell people to let their tank sit (after filling it
tap water) for at least 2 -3 weeks before introducing fish. What the
heck for?? I can undertsand a few hours to check for leaks, or even
several for the temp to adjust. But 2-3 weeks?!?!?!? ::shakes head::
It's not doing anything for the tank to just sit there.
Is he thinking that it's starting to cycle?
He also tells people to add Oysters or sea shells to the tank to keep
the tank slightly alkaline.
Yeah, this is going to really help those with hard, alkaline water to
begin with! Sheesh!
Mind you....this is supposed to be a professor at a veterinary college
in Texas (USA).
= O

[Zebulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...

<brevity snip>

> Mind you....this is supposed to be a professor at a veterinary college
> in Texas (USA).
> = O
>
=====================
Now you can see why some of us take everything we read by so called
"professionals" with a grain of salt.......
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

uh huh, and those named carol with an even smaller frain of salt....


On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:09:33 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
<<>>
<<>><brevity snip>
<<>>
<<>>> Mind you....this is supposed to be a professor at a veterinary college
<<>>> in Texas (USA).
<<>>> = O
<<>>>
<<>>=====================
<<>>Now you can see why some of us take everything we read by so called
<<>>"professionals" with a grain of salt.......



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[muddyfox]

Unbelievable - I just can't fathom how someone with a veterinary
background could write stuff like that.

Interesting reading!

Muddy

[Dan White]

"muddyfox" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Unbelievable - I just can't fathom how someone with a veterinary
> background could write stuff like that.
>
> Interesting reading!
>

The only way I could interpret the thing about ammonia in the drinking water
is if he's talking about decaying organic matter in the water supply, as in
the reservoir. We're talking very small amounts of ammonia, I would think
too small to detect by smelling, so is it possible that the drinking water
has the trace ammonia in it? I don't know if water treatment plants remove
any ammonia or not.

dwhite

[Zebulon]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
. ..
> The only way I could interpret the thing about ammonia in the drinking
> water
> is if he's talking about decaying organic matter in the water supply, as
> in
> the reservoir. We're talking very small amounts of ammonia, I would think
> too small to detect by smelling, so is it possible that the drinking water
> has the trace ammonia in it? I don't know if water treatment plants
> remove
> any ammonia or not.
============================
Since there are fish in reservoirs I wouldn't think there would be much
ammonia.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[cat daddy]

"Dan White" > wrote in message
. ..
> "muddyfox" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Unbelievable - I just can't fathom how someone with a veterinary
> > background could write stuff like that.
> >
> > Interesting reading!
> >
>
> The only way I could interpret the thing about ammonia in the drinking
water
> is if he's talking about decaying organic matter in the water supply, as
in
> the reservoir. We're talking very small amounts of ammonia, I would think
> too small to detect by smelling, so is it possible that the drinking water
> has the trace ammonia in it? I don't know if water treatment plants
remove
> any ammonia or not.

Water treatment plants add ammonia in the final stage to turn chlorine
into chloramine. But, I think the author of the article probably just mixed
up and misquoted what the professor was saying....

[Rich]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Our small, local news paper has a "Pet Talk" section. Usually it's
> about dogs, cats and birds.
> Last Wednesday there was a small piece about fish tanks and how "A
> slimey tank isn't a bad thing", but of course..the common myths had to
> fly as well.
> Their info came from a "Dr. Donald Lewis, professor in the Department
> of pathobiology at the College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical
> Sciences at Texas A&M University".
> The artical goes on to say that most people buy a fish tank and add
> the fish the same day.
> Yes. This is often the first mistake newbies make.
> However, he goes on to say that this "Instant plunge causes the fish
> to secrete mucous as a way of protecting itself from the high level of
> ammonia found in the tap water resulting from the breakdown of organic
> matter."
> Are you already saying "HUH?" I was. If you put a fish in a tank that
> was set up the same day, why would it have high ammonia levels
> already? What organic matter was breaking down?
> The "Dr." goes on to explain to how to set up a tank for the first
> time.
> He suggests "an under gravel filter, gravel, rocks, and other
> accessories. Then add water into the tank."
> No mention of dechlorinator. I understand chlorine would dissipate,
> however, chloramine does not.
> Then he goes on to tell people to let their tank sit (after filling it
> tap water) for at least 2 -3 weeks before introducing fish. What the
> heck for?? I can undertsand a few hours to check for leaks, or even
> several for the temp to adjust. But 2-3 weeks?!?!?!? ::shakes head::
> It's not doing anything for the tank to just sit there.
> Is he thinking that it's starting to cycle?
> He also tells people to add Oysters or sea shells to the tank to keep
> the tank slightly alkaline.
> Yeah, this is going to really help those with hard, alkaline water to
> begin with! Sheesh!
> Mind you....this is supposed to be a professor at a veterinary college
> in Texas (USA).


A great post !!

The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank and
add fish the same day.....

As for the rest.... I will be generous and assume he said loads, but it
got edited to 250 words by a journo who had no idea what chlorine and
chloramine do.. probably thought such terms would bore readers.....

--
Rich

http://www.richdavies.com
http://www.richdavies.com/fishkeeping.htm
http://www.richdavies.com/tropicalfish/

[Zebulon]

"Rich" > wrote in message
...
>
> The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank and
> add fish the same day.....
==============================
There's nothing wrong with that as long as a dechlorinator is used. Or
something to remove the chloromines (sp?).

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Dan White]

"Zëbulon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dan White" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > The only way I could interpret the thing about ammonia in the drinking
> > water
> > is if he's talking about decaying organic matter in the water supply, as
> > in
> > the reservoir. We're talking very small amounts of ammonia, I would
think
> > too small to detect by smelling, so is it possible that the drinking
water
> > has the trace ammonia in it? I don't know if water treatment plants
> > remove
> > any ammonia or not.
> ============================
> Since there are fish in reservoirs I wouldn't think there would be much
> ammonia.

Good point. I suppose a reservoir is cycled.

dwhite

[carlrs]

I have seen many so-called professionals make such statements,
although he maybe just misspoke and got ahead of himself.
Chloramines are added to the water before it is sent down line during
the treatment process. Reservoirs may have fish in them, but this
water is treated with chlorine or chloramines before going into City
water, making any cycling of reservoir water null.

Chloramines are best treated with products such as Prime or Ammo Lock
which de-toxify the ammonia (converting it from toxic NH4 to
relatively non-toxic NH3).

Here is an article about tap water:
http://aquarium-answers.blogspot.com/2007/01/what-should-i-know-about-
tap-water-for.html

Carl



On Jan 28, 8:12 pm, "Dan White" > wrote:
> "Zëbulon" > wrote in ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Dan White" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > > The only way I could interpret the thing about ammonia in the drinking
> > > water
> > > is if he's talking about decaying organic matter in the water supply, as
> > > in
> > > the reservoir. We're talking very small amounts of ammonia, I would
> think
> > > too small to detect by smelling, so is it possible that the drinking
> water
> > > has the trace ammonia in it? I don't know if water treatment plants
> > > remove
> > > any ammonia or not.
> > ============================
> > Since there are fish in reservoirs I wouldn't think there would be much
> > ammonia.Good point. I suppose a reservoir is cycled.
>
> dwhite- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

[Larry Blanchard]

carlrs wrote:

> I have seen many so-called professionals make such statements,
> although he maybe just misspoke and got ahead of himself.

Having been the subject of journalistic editing more than once, I agree with
the posters who've said it probably wasn't the prof, it was probably the
journalist misquoting him.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[atomweaver]

"Tynk" > wrote in news:1169922533.875504.214170
@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com:

> Our small, local news paper has a "Pet Talk" section. Usually it's
> about dogs, cats and birds.
> Last Wednesday there was a small piece about fish tanks and how "A
> slimey tank isn't a bad thing", but of course..the common myths had to
> fly as well.
> Their info came from a "Dr. Donald Lewis, professor in the Department
> of pathobiology at the College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical
> Sciences at Texas A&M University".

Looks like your small local newspaper plagarized a July 2001 article
from Texas A&M's student newspaper;

http://newsarchives.tamu.edu/stories/01/070901-5.html

....lending more liklihood to the possibility of journalistic
interpretation errors (as the original article was by a student
reporter). There's a lesson here; if you're going to rip an article
off, at least know enough to decide if its a good one. Don't cheat off
of someone who's dumber than you, kids! :-)


Dr. Donald Lewis is no longer on the faculty list at the Dept. of
Verterinary Pathobiology;

http://vtpb-www.cvm.tamu.edu/people/faculty.html

Given that a Google Scholar search indicates he hasn't published since
the mid-90's (and his reccomendation of an under-gravel filter ;-) he's
probably retired.

Regards
DaveZ
Atom Weaver

[Tynk]

On Jan 28, 2:00�pm, "cat daddy" > wrote:
> "Dan White" > wrote in messagenews:GcmdnckCS5zqWSHYnZ2dnUVZ_sSmnZ2d@comca st.com...

> > any ammonia or not.* *Water treatment plants add ammonia in the final stage to turn chlorine
> into chloramine. But, I think the author of the article probably just mixed
> up and misquoted what the professor was saying....- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

I didn't misquote the professor, and he did say other things that were
bogus as well. One other thing was running a tank filled with tap
water for a minimum of 2-3 weeks before adding fish. What for?
That one should add sea shells oyster shells to a tank to act like a
buffer and keep the water slightly more alkaline.
You just can't toss out general comments like that when everybody's
water is different. Some folks have hard, alkaline water anyway and do
not need to make it even more so.
And from what I know, adding sea shells is *not* something you want to
add to a freshwater tank anyway.
I've kept the article and have written to 2 different people from the
paper asking to whome and where do I send an article about setting up
a tank and correcting some things that were said that weren't correct.
It's already afternoon and I haven't gotten a response yet.

[Tynk]

Zëbulon wrote:
> "Rich" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank and
> > add fish the same day.....
> ==============================
> There's nothing wrong with that as long as a dechlorinator is used. Or
> something to remove the chloromines (sp?).

There can be a lot wrong with that. Without details of how many fish
were added, the tank's size, which types were added, and how not to
kill them in the cycling process, but that they will be damaged
anyway, etc,...you can run into major problems. So yeah, there is
something wrong with that.

[Tynk]

On Jan 29, 11:36�am, atomweaver > wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in news:1169922533.875504.214170
> @j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Our small, local news paper has a "Pet Talk" section. Usually it's
> > about dogs, cats and birds.
> > Last Wednesday there was a small piece about fish tanks and how "A
> > slimey tank isn't a bad thing", but of course..the common myths had to
> > fly as well.
> > Their info came from a "Dr. Donald Lewis, professor in the Department
> > of pathobiology at the College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical
> > Sciences at Texas A&M University".Looks like your small local newspaper plagarized a July 2001 article
> from Texas A&M's student newspaper;
>
> http://newsarchives.tamu.edu/stories/01/070901-5.html
>
> ...lending more liklihood to the possibility of journalistic
> interpretation errors (as the original article was by a student
> reporter). *There's a lesson here; if you're going to rip an article
> off, at least know enough to decide if its a good one. *Don't cheat off
> of someone who's dumber than you, kids! :-)
>
> Dr. Donald Lewis is no longer on the faculty list at the Dept. of
> Verterinary Pathobiology;
>
> http://vtpb-www.cvm.tamu.edu/people/faculty.html
>
> Given that a Google Scholar search indicates he hasn't published since
> the mid-90's (and his reccomendation of an under-gravel filter ;-) he's
> probably retired.
>
> Regards
> DaveZ
> Atom Weaver

OOOOOO, Dave got the dirt !!
No wonder they aren't emailing me back about it, lol.
Well, forget emailing them again, I will be calling them about this.
Thanks Dave!
You're a peach. = )

[Tristan]

On 29 Jan 2007 12:04:38 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:

<<>>
<<>>Zëbulon wrote:
<<>>> "Rich" > wrote in message
<<>>> ...
<<>>> >
<<>>> > The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank and
<<>>> > add fish the same day.....
<<>>> ==============================
<<>>> There's nothing wrong with that as long as a dechlorinator is used. Or
<<>>> something to remove the chloromines (sp?).
<<>>
<<>>There can be a lot wrong with that. Without details of how many fish
<<>>were added, the tank's size, which types were added, and how not to
<<>>kill them in the cycling process, but that they will be damaged
<<>>anyway, etc,...you can run into major problems. So yeah, there is
<<>>something wrong with that.


Carol has to be the most slapped down jerk on USENET that ever came
along. Is there a USENET award for being slapped down? Carol is most
definately the winner in that catagory.


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...

Zëbulon wrote:
> "Rich" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank
> > and
> > add fish the same day.....
> ==============================
> There's nothing wrong with that as long as a dechlorinator is used. Or
> something to remove the chloromines (sp?).

There can be a lot wrong with that. Without details of how many fish
were added, the tank's size, which types were added, and how not to
kill them in the cycling process,
but that they will be damaged
anyway, etc,...you can run into major problems. So yeah, there is
something wrong with that.
=============================
That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing if fish can be
added the FIRST day and the answer is yes. Please reread the message. But
even if you knew that, you will always disagree with anything I post for
some reason. Is it your ego perhaps?
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

Yea yea yea CArol, yu got slapped down and now yuu want to incite a
need to riot and argue. YOur a loser get over it., You do not have
aclue what your talking about, yet you flap those gums of yopurs.

Slap slap slap slap......get down bitch, get down.......slap slap
slap.....when you gonna learn Carol. STFU.


On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:29:31 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
<<>>
<<>>Zëbulon wrote:
<<>>> "Rich" > wrote in message
<<>>> ...
<<>>> >
<<>>> > The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank
<<>>> > and
<<>>> > add fish the same day.....
<<>>> ==============================
<<>>> There's nothing wrong with that as long as a dechlorinator is used. Or
<<>>> something to remove the chloromines (sp?).
<<>>
<<>>There can be a lot wrong with that. Without details of how many fish
<<>>were added, the tank's size, which types were added, and how not to
<<>>kill them in the cycling process,
<<>> but that they will be damaged
<<>>anyway, etc,...you can run into major problems. So yeah, there is
<<>>something wrong with that.
<<>>=============================
<<>> That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing if fish can be
<<>>added the FIRST day and the answer is yes. Please reread the message. But
<<>>even if you knew that, you will always disagree with anything I post for
<<>>some reason. Is it your ego perhaps?



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> On 29 Jan 2007 12:04:38 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:
>
> Carol has to be the most slapped down jerk on USENET that ever came
> along. Is there a USENET award for being slapped down? Carol is most
> definately the winner in that catagory.
================================
Prozac can help you get over your obsession with me and professional
counseling can help you get over using lies, personal attacks and
intimidation as an ego builder. Talk to
your Dr at the VA hospital about the proper medications. You can live a
normal life free of hate, lies and obsessions but you must make an
effort.

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...

< snip insane rant and foaming>

===========================
You need help Roy Tristan Hauer. Prozac can help you get over your
obsession with me and professional
counseling can help you get over using personal attacks and slander as an
ego builder. Talk to
your Dr at the VA hospital about the proper medications to help you. You
can live a
normal life free of hate, lies, feelings of inferiority and obsessions but
you must make an
effort to help yourself.

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[cat daddy]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...


On Jan 28, 2:00?pm, "cat daddy" > wrote:
> "Dan White" > wrote in
messagenews:GcmdnckCS5zqWSHYnZ2dnUVZ_sSmnZ2d@comca st.com...

> > any ammonia or not. Water treatment plants add ammonia in the final
stage to turn chlorine
> into chloramine. But, I think the author of the article probably just
mixed
> up and misquoted what the professor was saying....- Hide quoted text --
Show quoted text -

I didn't misquote the professor, and he did say other things that were
bogus as well. One other thing was running a tank filled with tap
water for a minimum of 2-3 weeks before adding fish. What for?
That one should add sea shells oyster shells to a tank to act like a
buffer and keep the water slightly more alkaline.
You just can't toss out general comments like that when everybody's
water is different. Some folks have hard, alkaline water anyway and do
not need to make it even more so.
And from what I know, adding sea shells is *not* something you want to
add to a freshwater tank anyway.
I've kept the article and have written to 2 different people from the
paper asking to whome and where do I send an article about setting up
a tank and correcting some things that were said that weren't correct.
It's already afternoon and I haven't gotten a response yet.

*******************
I was referring to the journalist who wrote the news article as possibly
misquoting the professor or editing important info. Dave already gave you
the info that I didn't include, because I was just addressing the ammonia in
tap water issue. Dr. Lewis is, in fact, a retired professor emeritus with 38
years on the faculty at A&M.

[Tynk]

On Jan 29, 2:29�pm, Z�bulon > wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in ooglegroups.com...
>
> Zëbulon wrote:
> > "Rich" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > > The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank
> > > and
> > > add fish the same day.....
> > ==============================
> > There's nothing wrong with that as long as a dechlorinator is used. *Or
> > something to remove the chloromines (sp?).There can be a lot wrong with that. Without details of how many fish
> were added, the tank's size, which types were added, and how not to
> kill them in the cycling process,
> *but that they will be damaged
> anyway, etc,...you can run into major problems. So yeah, there is
> something wrong with that.
> =============================
> *That's not what we were discussing. *We were discussing if fish can be
> added the FIRST day and the answer is yes. Please reread the message. *But
> even if you knew that, you will always disagree with anything I post for
> some reason. *Is it your ego perhaps?

Seeing as you constantly like to argue and nit pick anything I say...
You simply commented about there being nothing wrong with adding fish
on the first day of setting up the tank, *without* giving any other
details, it can be wrong. It can go very wrong. That was the entire
POINT of replying to what you said.
There is no ego trip here lady! Stop trying to cause argument after
argumment with me.
It gets so old. No wonder all these other people constantly harrass
you!
I do not always disagree with you. You are acting like a 15 yr old
little girl when you say things like that.
I have recommended you on many occasions when it concerns Goldies, and
I have agreed with many th ings you have said in the past. However, if
it's wrong, too vague, or is missing information I, or somebody else
will fix it for you.
Stop your whining.
No one want to hear it.
Have your tantrums elsewhere or take it to email directly. It doesn't
belong here.

[Tynk]

On Jan 29, 5:51�pm, "cat daddy" > wrote:
(snipped)

> * *I was referring to the journalist who wrote the news article as possibly
> misquoting the professor or editing important info. Dave already gave you
> the info that I didn't include, because I was just addressing the ammonia in
> tap water issue. Dr. Lewis is, in fact, a retired professor emeritus with 38
> years on the faculty at A&M.

Ah, ok.
I emailed the university about this.
I am waiting for a reply from them as well as from the newspaper.
I said in my email to the university how I read in the local paper,
(gave the name and the publisher) and the link that Dave gave me as
well.
I mentioned that the good Dr. wasn't on staff anymore (I checked all
over the place to see if he changed positions too), and that if it was
possible to get the Dr.'s orginal paper or information.
I would SO hope that the person/s who wrote about a "slimey tank" was
just an idiot and didn't put all of the Dr.s words in his piece, but
that right there is a problem, as it left out or changed viable
information.
Now after the mail came today I received my March Issue of Tropical
Fish Hobbyist.
In their Q & A's section somebody wrote in about how his male Betta
just about killed the single female Betta and how could they keep them
together.
The author wrote back YOU CAN'T keep a male and female together, etc.
This new person took over for the usual man that had done the Q & A's
and I don't like many of this person's answers.
All too often much to vague, or darn right not right!
Let me tell ya....they don't exactly like being told they're
wrong...being a fish magazine and all, but sometimes they are.
I've said it a million times over the years. People who will say you
cannot house them together period, are just too lazy to go into it in
detail.
It can be done. Very often. However, there are many variables and must
have's that must be met in order to do so.
All too often people are just repeating myths that they've heard from
lazy people.
It comes from Bettas who are in too small tanks, or personality
clashes, to overly aggressive male OR females.
This author made it seem that the males will always go after a non
spawning ready female. Not the case in reality. Of course it can
happen...but it's not the norm.
::glances over at the 75g with 13 females and a resident Crowntail
male all living in perfect harmony::
Yeah....it can't ever be done. Luckily many Bettas haven't read that
or don't speak human! I've been housing them like this for the past 29
yrs and have only had a few exceptions where it didn't work. Mostly,
those were females being nasty. Not the male.
www.tfhmagazine.com if anyone want to send an email. Subject line:Q &
A's
Then in the body write letter to the editor, as it says in the
magazine to put (Q&A) in the subject line to get past the spam
filters.

[Tristan]

Carol will nit pik with God, the devil or her own image in a mirrow.
Its her nature, she has to focus "all" of "amnything" to herself or
she would dry up and blow away..Its part of being an attention whore.


On 29 Jan 2007 20:36:04 -0800, "Tynk" > wrote:

<<>>
<<>>
<<>>On Jan 29, 2:29?pm, Z?bulon > wrote:
<<>>> "Tynk" > wrote in ooglegroups.com...
<<>>>
<<>>> Z?lon wrote:
<<>>> > "Rich" > wrote in message
<<>>> ...
<<>>>
<<>>> > > The Prof has one thing right.... an awful lot of people set up a tank
<<>>> > > and
<<>>> > > add fish the same day.....
<<>>> > ==============================
<<>>> > There's nothing wrong with that as long as a dechlorinator is used. r
<<>>> > something to remove the chloromines (sp?).There can be a lot wrong with that. Without details of how many fish
<<>>> were added, the tank's size, which types were added, and how not to
<<>>> kill them in the cycling process,
<<>>> "ut that they will be damaged
<<>>> anyway, etc,...you can run into major problems. So yeah, there is
<<>>> something wrong with that.
<<>>> =============================
<<>>> hat's not what we were discussing. e were discussing if fish can be
<<>>> added the FIRST day and the answer is yes. Please reread the message.
ut
<<>>> even if you knew that, you will always disagree with anything I post for
<<>>> some reason. s it your ego perhaps?
<<>>
<<>>Seeing as you constantly like to argue and nit pick anything I say...
<<>>You simply commented about there being nothing wrong with adding fish
<<>>on the first day of setting up the tank, *without* giving any other
<<>>details, it can be wrong. It can go very wrong. That was the entire
<<>>POINT of replying to what you said.
<<>>There is no ego trip here lady! Stop trying to cause argument after
<<>>argumment with me.
<<>>It gets so old. No wonder all these other people constantly harrass
<<>>you!
<<>>I do not always disagree with you. You are acting like a 15 yr old
<<>>little girl when you say things like that.
<<>>I have recommended you on many occasions when it concerns Goldies, and
<<>>I have agreed with many th ings you have said in the past. However, if
<<>>it's wrong, too vague, or is missing information I, or somebody else
<<>>will fix it for you.
<<>>Stop your whining.
<<>>No one want to hear it.
<<>>Have your tantrums elsewhere or take it to email directly. It doesn't
<<>>belong here.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zëbulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...


Then in the body write letter to the editor, as it says in the
magazine to put (Q&A) in the subject line to get past the spam
filters.
====================
Their space is limited and probably their time. They give the quickest
answer they can without using all the space allotted them on one long
detailed reply.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Zëbulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...


> Zbulon wrote:
> =============================
> That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing if fish can be
> added the FIRST day and the answer is yes. Please reread the message. But
> even if you knew that, you will always disagree with anything I post for
> some reason. Is it your ego perhaps?
=================================
Seeing as you constantly like to argue and nit pick anything I say...
You simply commented about there being nothing wrong with adding fish
on the first day of setting up the tank, *without* giving any other
details, it can be wrong. It can go very wrong. That was the entire
POINT of replying to what you said.
There is no ego trip here lady! Stop trying to cause argument after
argumment with me.
==========================
Stop constantly harassing and nit-picking everything I post. I've added
fish the day I filled tanks probably hundreds of times over the years so
YES - fish can be added the first day! I seldom reply to any of your
messages but you're constantly on my case. *FISH CAN BE ADDED THE FIRST
DAY.* People do it all the time. I'm sorry if it doesn't work for you as
it works for so many others. What works for some may not work for all. You
can't seem to comprehend what that means. God help anyone who disagrees
with you!

> It gets so old. No wonder all these other people constantly harrass
you!

All the "other people" besides YOU are Roy Tristan Hauer who suffers from a
serious mental disorder he refuses to address.

<Your usual rude self-righteous personal attacks snipped>
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> Carol will nit pik with God, the devil or her own image in a mirrow.
> Its her nature, she has to focus "all" of "amnything" to herself or
> she would dry up and blow away..Its part of being an attention whore.
==============
You need to get back to the VA hospital so you can get past me and Ed and
lead a more normal life.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Don Freeman]

"Zëbulon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tristan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Carol will nit pik with God, the devil or her own image in a mirrow.
>> Its her nature, she has to focus "all" of "amnything" to herself or
>> she would dry up and blow away..Its part of being an attention whore.
> ==============
> You need to get back to the VA hospital so you can get past me and Ed and
> lead a more normal life.
> --
> ZB....
>

Sounds more like you two should get a room.

--
-Don
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time)

[Tynk]

On Jan 30, 1:37�pm, Z�bulon > wrote:
(Snipped for crap and drama once again)

> Seeing as you constantly like to argue and nit pick anything I say...
> You simply commented about there being nothing wrong with adding fish
> on the first day of setting up the tank, *without* giving any other
> details, it can be wrong. It can go very wrong. That was the entire
> POINT of replying to what you said.

> *I've added
> fish the day I filled tanks probably hundreds of times over the years so
> YES - fish can be added the first day! *I seldom reply to any of your
> messages but you're constantly on my case. **FISH CAN BE ADDED THE FIRST
> DAY.* *People do it all the time. *I'm sorry if it doesn't work for you as
> it works for so many others. What works for some may not work for all. *You
> can't seem to comprehend what that means.
>

Ok..once again let me try and explain this. This is NOT anything
againt YOU, although you will find it to be somehow, just as you did
the reply to you in the first place.
It has nothing to do with not being *able* (keyword) to add fish the
first day a tank is set up. It does not matter if *you*, or anyone has
done it a gazzillion times before. By *only* (keyword) saying "there's
*nothing wrong* with adding fish the first day" *without* (another
keyword) giving any other details of what can go wrong, it can be a
bad thing.
Again, and as usual it has nothing to do with what works for you may
not work for others (You really like that excuse don't you...even when
it has nothing to do with the conversation). It doesn't matter who
does it. Without further information, especially for a newbie that may
have read that, they may think it's fine to stock a tank the first day
it's set up and that there are no special things that need to be done
in order to keep those fish alive. Not to mention the fact their gills
will become burned from the rising ammonia levels, new tank syndrome
and common deaths from it, needing extra water changes and doing
gravel vacs, lightly feeding, and especially only doing with a couple
of fish.
The entire point of the original reply to you was because you didn't
bother to take the time to explain any of that.
What you said was much too vague and had absolutely no information
along with it.
Again you want to argue about stupid stuff here, where it doesn't
belong.
So real slow for you....
T H I S I S N O T A P E R S O N A L A T T A C K A G A I N S T Y
O U !!
Y O U L E F T O U T V I T A L I N F O R M A T I O N!
T H A T ' S A L L !
No quit already!
Get passed it!

[Zebulon]

"Don Freeman" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sounds more like you two should get a room.
========================
LOL!!! No thanks. I did enough volunteer work with the "disturbed" years
ago. When one of us was almost killed by one who went off his meds I quit.
:-)

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tynk]

On Jan 30, 1:26�pm, Z�bulon > wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> Then in the body write letter to the editor, as it says in *the
> magazine to put (Q&A) in the subject line to get past the spam
> filters.
> ====================
> Their space is limited and probably their time. *They give the quickest
> answer they can without using all the space allotted them on one long
> detailed reply.

I would have to assume you don't know this because you've said you do
not get this magazine (or read it), but they have often had long, very
detailed replies to a question somebody has submitted. I can remember
one time they used up one entire page (plus pictures).
This particular new person who has taken over the task of the Q & A
section has, on more than one occasion, been way too general, or
completely omitting pertinent information.

[Zëbulon]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jan 30, 1:26�pm, Z�bulon > wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> Then in the body write letter to the editor, as it says in the
> magazine to put (Q&A) in the subject line to get past the spam
> filters.
> ====================
> Their space is limited and probably their time. They give the quickest
> answer they can without using all the space allotted them on one long
> detailed reply.
=====================
I would have to assume you don't know this because you've said you do
not get this magazine (or read it),

* I got that magazine for many years until there were more adds and salt
water articles than I was willing to pay that price for. I'm not into
sal****er aquariums and the adds were redundant.

but they have often had long, very
detailed replies to a question somebody has submitted. I can remember
one time they used up one entire page (plus pictures).

* You should offer to do their articles. You have the time and they will pay
you. Send them a few examples and see what reply you get.

This particular new person who has taken over the task of the Q & A
section has, on more than one occasion, been way too general, or
completely omitting pertinent information.

* If they get enough complaints they'll replace him/her.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>