Run small tank with no mechanical filter

[Pablo]

I have a small 1.6 gallon fish tank. I added a small gold fish and a
pleco. I think the tank is going through the set-up cycle (amonia >
nitrite > nitrate). I think the gold fish is passing out. Anyways, Is
it possible to have that small tank with no mechanical filter, just
the air stone and the undergravel filter?

[Tristan]

NO NO AND NO!
YOu need a larger tank, much larger, or get rid of the fish!
On 29 Jan 2007 10:52:00 -0800, "Pablo" > wrote:

<<>>I have a small 1.6 gallon fish tank. I added a small gold fish and a
<<>>pleco. I think the tank is going through the set-up cycle (amonia >
<<>>nitrite > nitrate). I think the gold fish is passing out. Anyways, Is
<<>>it possible to have that small tank with no mechanical filter, just
<<>>the air stone and the undergravel filter?



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Pablo" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>I have a small 1.6 gallon fish tank. I added a small gold fish and a
> pleco. I think the tank is going through the set-up cycle (amonia >
> nitrite > nitrate). I think the gold fish is passing out. Anyways, Is
> it possible to have that small tank with no mechanical filter, just
> the air stone and the undergravel filter?
=======================
Plecos reach 18" in length if you have the usual pleco the stores sell.
Goldfish reach 12" or more in length. Your tank is suitable for one betta.
Please take the other two fish back to the store before both die.
Meanwhile start doing partial water changes using water of close temperature
and something to remove the chlorine and any chlorimines the water contains
to dilute the toxic ammonia.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Pablo]

Ok, I will replace fish. But Can I still run the tank in the future
without mechanica filter?

On Jan 29, 1:28 pm, Zëbulon > wrote:
> "Pablo" > wrote in glegroups.com...>I have a small 1.6 gallon fish tank. I added a small gold fish and a
> > pleco. I think the tank is going through the set-up cycle (amonia >
> > nitrite > nitrate). I think the gold fish is passing out. Anyways, Is
> > it possible to have that small tank with no mechanical filter, just
> > the air stone and the undergravel filter?=======================
> Plecos reach 18" in length if you have the usual pleco the stores sell.
> Goldfish reach 12" or more in length. Your tank is suitable for one betta.
> Please take the other two fish back to the store before both die.
> Meanwhile start doing partial water changes using water of close temperature
> and something to remove the chlorine and any chlorimines the water contains
> to dilute the toxic ammonia.
> --
> ZB....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> rec.ponder since late 1996.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

On 29 Jan 2007 11:38:24 -0800, "Pablo" > wrote:

<<>>Ok, I will replace fish. But Can I still run the tank in the future
<<>>without mechanica filter?
<<>>
snip a bunch of crap from a plagarizing indivual............that does
know know what the heck she is talking about.

A mech filter is needed unless your committed to doing water changes
on a constant basis. In such a small container of water with even a
single fish like a betta or such it doe snot take long before the
water quality goes to hell and becomes toxic to the fish......A
mechanical filter helps, but its still not a cure all. You will find
small quanity of water containers to be a lot harder to take care of
tha one of a larger quanity. It can be done, but they normally
require more attention and are not as forgiving as a larger container
is.

There are more than just a betta that will do ok in a tank, but I uwld
sitl use a hob type mechanical filter, forget an airstone and do water
changes....


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tynk]

On Jan 29, 12:52?pm, "Pablo" > wrote:
> I have a small 1.6 gallon fish tank. I added a small gold fish and a
> pleco. I think the tank is going through the set-up cycle (amonia >
> nitrite > nitrate). I think the gold fish is passing out. Anyways, Is
> it possible to have that small tank with no mechanical filter, just
> the air stone and the undergravel filter?

Oh my! = O

>From your situation, the size of the tank and the fish you've put in
it and the obvious question you're asking, I'm going to assume you
haven't researched much about fish tanks, their set ups and what is
appropriate to house the fish choices you've made.
Here's the bad news.
You have a 1.6 gallon tank. About the only thing you can house in such
a small tank is one male Betta, or a couple of the smaller viarieties
of Killifish. That's about it.
As for a Goldfish...never. Doesn't matter what type, they can't live
in a 1.6 gallon tank (unless they're a tiny baby of about a 1/4" in
long or less). Plecos....never. Again, doesn't matter which type
(there are SO many). The most commonly sold are the common Pleco's and
they grow about a foot and half in legnth. Goldfish...Commons..12" or
longer, Comets 16" long, Fancies...8" long, Koi...about 3 feet and
have no place in a tank anyway.
Now..add their huge body mass to that legnth and you end up with a
very large fish. These fish put out more waste than the average fish
of that size too, they need better filtration than normal.
An undergravel filter isn't enough and most likely your fish is
suffering from ammonia poisoning.
The Pleco will be next, and if you don't get a much larger tank very
quickly, both are going to die.
Depending on the type of Goldie it is, the fancies need about 15g per
goldfish, and the larger ones (Commons and Comets) about 20g's per
fish. The common plecos should be in a tank of about 90+ gallons when
fully grown.
Looking at my 75g, I wouldn't want to house a half grown common Pleco
in there, let along a 1.6g tank.
The best advice I can give you is to please research setting up a
tank, what's involved, then go to the species of fish.
Think of fish you like, research them.See what their requirements are
and if they are compatible with what you have, or with other fish you
may want to house with it.
This is of course if you get a larger tank.
Basically, Goldies can only with other Goldies.
Warm water tropicals need different tank requirements than Goldfish
do, so they aren't fine to keep together.
Another good piece of advice, many shop employees don't know squat,
yet act like they do.
It's much better to research on your own and if you need something
answered or a specific Q about a certain fish, etc...post it here.
In close to 30 yrs of being in this hobby I have heard so much crap
being told to customers, that's it's not even funny anymore.
Good luck, but do know that you cannot leave these fish in this tank.
They will die from it if you do.

[Zebulon]

"Pablo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I will replace fish. But Can I still run the tank in the future
without mechanica filter?
=========================
I small filter, called palm filters or even a small inside box filter would
be better than no filter at all. I have kept a betta now for 2 years in a
2g unfiltered tank and he is fine. :-) If you use a small filter you can
keep other types of fish that don't grow very large. A few guppies or
tetras etc. But then you'll need a small heater (bettas like heat too)
unless your home is in the mid to high 70s year round. Mine is so no
heaters are used here.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Zebulon]

"Tristan" > wrote in message
...
> snip a bunch of crap from a plagarizing indivual............that does
> know know what the heck she is talking about.
===============
You have yet to prove your libelous, slanderous accusations or report me to
the Police for plagiarizing.

Prozac can help you get over your obsession with me and professional
counciling can help you get over using slander and intimidation as an ego
builder. Talk to
your Dr at the VA hospital about the proper medications. You can live a
normal life free of hate and obsessions but you must make an
effort.

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Pablo]

So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
right?

On Jan 29, 2:20 pm, Zëbulon > wrote:
> "Pablo" > wrote in ooglegroups.com...
> Ok, I will replace fish. But Can I still run the tank in the future
> without mechanica filter?
> =========================
> I small filter, called palm filters or even a small inside box filter would
> be better than no filter at all. I have kept a betta now for 2 years in a
> 2g unfiltered tank and he is fine. :-) If you use a small filter you can
> keep other types of fish that don't grow very large. A few guppies or
> tetras etc. But then you'll need a small heater (bettas like heat too)
> unless your home is in the mid to high 70s year round. Mine is so no
> heaters are used here.
> --
> ZB....
> Frugal ponding since 1995.
> rec.ponder since late 1996.
> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

Just beaware Carol Gulley aka Zebulon will tel a l ie in a heart beat
and lead yu down the wrong road in your quest to keep fish. She is a
lunatic and toll who only knows how to give erroneous info. Wait for
Tynk or Gill Passman to answer your reply and pay Zebulon no
attention less you like dead fish

On 29 Jan 2007 13:53:24 -0800, "Pablo" > wrote:

<<>>So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
<<>>I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
<<>>right?
<<>>
<<>>On Jan 29, 2:20 pm, Zëbulon > wrote:
<<>>> "Pablo" > wrote in ooglegroups.com...
<<>>> Ok, I will replace fish. But Can I still run the tank in the future
<<>>> without mechanica filter?
<<>>> =========================
<<>>> I small filter, called palm filters or even a small inside box filter would
<<>>> be better than no filter at all. I have kept a betta now for 2 years in a
<<>>> 2g unfiltered tank and he is fine. :-) If you use a small filter you can
<<>>> keep other types of fish that don't grow very large. A few guppies or
<<>>> tetras etc. But then you'll need a small heater (bettas like heat too)
<<>>> unless your home is in the mid to high 70s year round. Mine is so no
<<>>> heaters are used here.
<<>>> --
<<>>> ZB....
<<>>> Frugal ponding since 1995.
<<>>> rec.ponder since late 1996.
<<>>> My Pond & Aquarium Pages:http://tinyurl.com/9do58
<<>>> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Zebulon]

"Pablo" > wrote in message
ups.com...
So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
right?
=====================
Yes, about 50% a week. I have one of those smaller gravel vacs to keep the
gravel clean. I got it at either Wal*Mart or PetsMart.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Troll free pond and fish Forum:
http://www.karlsforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=104
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Gill Passman]

Pablo wrote:
> I have a small 1.6 gallon fish tank. I added a small gold fish and a
> pleco. I think the tank is going through the set-up cycle (amonia >
> nitrite > nitrate). I think the gold fish is passing out. Anyways, Is
> it possible to have that small tank with no mechanical filter, just
> the air stone and the undergravel filter?
>

Hi Pablo,

Firstly as others have said before me that tank is too small to sustain
a goldfish or a pleco let alone both.....the smallest of Plecos that I
have is 3-4" and that would be too big for that tank....but if you are
serious about keeping fish then by posting here you have made a good
start.... :-)

If you want to keep your goldfish then you will need a bigger tank with
mechanical filtration......but then it depends if you are attached to
keeping your goldfish and plec (which you might need to lose anyway
depending on the type of plec) or if you want a nice small aquatic tank
to look at - or if space issues have dictated that you can only keep a
small tank......

You mention an undergravel filter so you are not without any filtration
- is this correct? Although I have not heard much good about UGFs I
would guess in a tank this small having a canister would fill the tank
without anything else being added....so in reality if you are going to
keep fish in there you are just going to have to be vigilant with the
water changes - I would recommend twice weekly changes of around 20-30%

Now the prickly subject of what you can keep in that tank - goldfish
(even one) is a no, no as is the plec.....depending on the size of the
plec and the size of your budget you could upgrade the tank - and you
could either go for it (a 55g) or do it gradually over the time....

As for tropicals....I would never keep them without a heater in the
tank....the ambient temperature in my house is usually 70F but it does
drop quite considerably at night during the winter - this is where the
heater kicks in - temperature swings are bad for tropicals if they go
beyond a certain range....then of course, and this applies to your
goldie as well it is very difficult to maintain temperatures in a tank
that small in the heat of summer....it can easily go way too high....not
saying that you can't do it - just that it is harder in a small tank....

IMO I would not put a betta in a 1.6g tank because having only ever kept
them in a 5g I think it is too small plus temperature management becomes
an issue....but you do have some options....you could plant the tank
heavily and introduce some shrimps/crabs etc....the bioload of these
creatures is much lower than fish....and it could be great to
watch....or you could go for three of a smaller temperate fish like
White Cloud Minnow:-

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=262

Anyway it really depends on what you want to do and spend.....but the
goldfish/plec in that tank is not going to work (and I wouldn't even go
for a betta but you might get away with it)It would be a great shame for
you to get put off fishkeeping because of this experience....

Gill

[Jen]

"Pablo" > wrote in message
ups.com...
So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
right?


Aren't you supposed to do that regardless??


Jen

[Tynk]

On Jan 30, 1:17?am, "Jen" > wrote:
> "Pablo" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
> So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
> I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
> right?
>
> Aren't you supposed to do that regardless??
>
> Jen


Hi Jen.
Are you asking aren't you supposed to do the water changes (yes) or
keep a Betta without a filter (it's always better to filter their
tanks).

[Jen]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Jan 30, 1:17?am, "Jen" > wrote:
>> "Pablo" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>> So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
>> I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
>> right?
>>
>> Aren't you supposed to do that regardless??
>>
>> Jen
>
>
> Hi Jen.
> Are you asking aren't you supposed to do the water changes (yes) or
> keep a Betta without a filter (it's always better to filter their
> tanks).
>

Yeah, the water changes. It seemed this person implied that this wasn't
normally the thing to do, unless you didn't have a filter.

Jen

[Pablo]

On Jan 30, 2:33 pm, "Tynk" > wrote:
> On Jan 30, 1:17?am, "Jen" > wrote:
>
> > "Pablo" > wrote in message
>
Tynk,

One more question. Is it extremely necessary to clean/vacum the
gravel often?. Even if I have a large tank? Isn't the biologycal
filter enough to decompose and get rid of the food and fish waste?

thanks

> ups.com...
> > So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
> > I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
> > right?
>
> > Aren't you supposed to do that regardless??
>
> > Jen
>
> Hi Jen.
> Are you asking aren't you supposed to do the water changes (yes) or
> keep a Betta without a filter (it's always better to filter their
> tanks).

[Tristan]

Usyually food and other junk accumulates in the gravekl where the
filter can not pull it ourt and trap it or a fish can not gain acess
too it, where it rots and turns into hydrogen sulphide over time as
well as uping nitrite and nitrate levels. So yes, its important to
keep junk from accumulating in the gravel bed, and the only way to do
that is by vac ing it out. The only thing a big tank is going to do
for you is let you get away with not cleaning the substate longer, but
in time it will still get fouled and create problems....Its easy to
vac out a little of junk than undertake a bunch of it from letting it
go for long periods of time.

On 31 Jan 2007 08:41:39 -0800, "Pablo" > wrote:

<<>>On Jan 30, 2:33 pm, "Tynk" > wrote:
<<>>> On Jan 30, 1:17?am, "Jen" > wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> > "Pablo" > wrote in message
<<>>>
<<>>Tynk,
<<>>
<<>> One more question. Is it extremely necessary to clean/vacum the
<<>>gravel often?. Even if I have a large tank? Isn't the biologycal
<<>>filter enough to decompose and get rid of the food and fish waste?
<<>>
<<>>thanks
<<>>
<<>>> ups.com...
<<>>> > So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
<<>>> > I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
<<>>> > right?
<<>>>
<<>>> > Aren't you supposed to do that regardless??
<<>>>
<<>>> > Jen
<<>>>
<<>>> Hi Jen.
<<>>> Are you asking aren't you supposed to do the water changes (yes) or
<<>>> keep a Betta without a filter (it's always better to filter their
<<>>> tanks).
<<>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

Tristan wrote:
> Usyually food and other junk accumulates in the gravekl where the
> filter can not pull it ourt and trap it or a fish can not gain acess
> too it, where it rots and turns into hydrogen sulphide over time as
> well as uping nitrite and nitrate levels. So yes, its important to
> keep junk from accumulating in the gravel bed, and the only way to do
> that is by vac ing it out. The only thing a big tank is going to do
> for you is let you get away with not cleaning the substate longer, but
> in time it will still get fouled and create problems....Its easy to
> vac out a little of junk than undertake a bunch of it from letting it
> go for long periods of time.
>

Just a couple of things to add here....if you heavily plant your tank
the roots will do some of the work for you....but you still need to
gravel vac around the plants....also pay attention to mulm (gunk) that
accumulates under ornaments/rocks/driftwood (lift them) and "dead areas"
in your tank (these are the ones that don't get sufficient water flow to
push the debris up into your filter)

But the principle is dirt in your gravel will cause you problems in the
future....

Gill

[Zebulon]

"Jen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> On Jan 30, 1:17?am, "Jen" > wrote:
>>> "Pablo" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ups.com...
>>> So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
>>> I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
>>> right?
>>>
>>> Aren't you supposed to do that regardless??
>>>
>>> Jen
>>
>>
>> Hi Jen.
>> Are you asking aren't you supposed to do the water changes (yes) or
>> keep a Betta without a filter (it's always better to filter their
>> tanks).
>>
>
> Yeah, the water changes. It seemed this person implied that this wasn't
> normally the thing to do, unless you didn't have a filter.
>
> Jen
===================
Some people with bettas don't do partial water changes - they just clean the
whole bowl or whatever they keep it in. I assume that's what he meant.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö> ~~~~ }<((((({*>

[Tristan]

Assuming anyhtng canlead to a whole other issue dumbass
Thats yur freaking problem now, you ASSUME" to freaking much.


On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:17:19 -0600, Zëbulon >
wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Jen" > wrote in message
...
<<>>>
<<>>> "Tynk" > wrote in message
<<>>> oups.com...
<<>>>> On Jan 30, 1:17?am, "Jen" > wrote:
<<>>>>> "Pablo" > wrote in message
<<>>>>>
<<>>>>> ups.com...
<<>>>>> So you have been keeping your betta for two year without filter, Then
<<>>>>> I am assuming you change 25% to 50% of the water every week. Is that
<<>>>>> right?
<<>>>>>
<<>>>>> Aren't you supposed to do that regardless??
<<>>>>>
<<>>>>> Jen
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>> Hi Jen.
<<>>>> Are you asking aren't you supposed to do the water changes (yes) or
<<>>>> keep a Betta without a filter (it's always better to filter their
<<>>>> tanks).
<<>>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> Yeah, the water changes. It seemed this person implied that this wasn't
<<>>> normally the thing to do, unless you didn't have a filter.
<<>>>
<<>>> Jen
<<>>===================
<<>>Some people with bettas don't do partial water changes - they just clean the
<<>>whole bowl or whatever they keep it in. I assume that's what he meant.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!